I am so sick of the spirit of negativity on this forum!

Well done, Neilgin1 Halleluah, Praise the Lord for he is Holy and is seated at the right hand of the Father. Glory to him who is seated with the Angels all around him crying Holy, Holy, Holy, is the Lamb that was slain. AmenIt is late here in the UK but I hope to come back with more.....ellie

Neilgin1, I was just thinking the same thing during the middle of the day. I like to cross swords to strengthen what I believe, but I think we should realize we are all for the same Saviour. The same God and Father, the same Spirit, the same kind of trust in Christ. John R Rice has a great sermon called "Paul Rejoices Over Enemies" that is about this very thing. If you have honest guilt over deciding doctrine, or what to think about other believers on the far end of your own "weird" scale, this sermon is a must. John Rice was about as fundamental as you could get, but he loved people so much. I think we should be the same way. Anxious to defend the faith, but more anxious to love one another. Anxious to figure out our own statement of beliefs, but more anxious to get people saved. Someone told John R. Rice, "Brother Rice, when you get all the people agreeing together, then you can have revival." To which Dr. Rice replied, "No, then you've got the millenium, my brother." This sermon edifies the body, as well as me. I think we should preach repentance, law, and sin, then grace and mercy, but we can't forget brotherly love. 1 Corinthians 13, my brothers.John Rice: Paul Rejoices Over Enemies(this site)https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=20

Good post Neil.I too have a suggestion that will seem almost simplistic. But I've found from my own experience that a good cure for a nagative attitude is the whole download section on this site :-) . The sermons here have been an avenue of the grace of God teaching me humility.

I'd give you a holy kiss if you were any closer! I've enjoyed this post greatly. What I appreciate about Brainerd in his teachings was how commonsense he made them. Like the area of repentance, He said the area of repentance should be equal to the area of transgression. This is how I understand it.If my sin involves just one onther person Directly, I go to that person and ask forgiveness, if it's just ---- say a negative thought about that person and wasn't expressed, I go to God . I've seen so many people ask others for forgiveness who had no idea they even needed to forgive that person. I've seen it in the context of congregations too. Ended up doing more harm than good. As an aside , I've always thought about Edward's daughter and her sacrifice, I think that somehow the Lord spared no expense in the comfort He gave Brainard at the expense of Edward's daughter Jerusha. What a sacrifice! What a testomony! God Bless ya Brother. Bro. Daryl

Seeing as I love to give you gears about the things you say I'll give my perspective on things.You say that you can't tell much about a person or see their heart attitudes about things, I will disagree with you on that one. You see it is not what you say that I personally will challenge you about, but its the way you say them. I feel and have felt that on any position that you take a stand on, your style of expression gives no room for another position or a different way seeing something. Its like 'thats it and thats that'. Well you could say that it is in the bible, well according to the bible someone caught in adultery deserved death, but Jesus did'nt condemn the lady. He said go sin no more. For all intense purposes the pharisees and the rest of the crowd that were with them were right. She deserved death, but God has other ideas. Its about truth, but more importantly the correct application of that truth. Get my drift?Like you said we can't really judge your character based on what you write but I certainly can see if you tolerate those that disagree with you. Its tone Krispy, and like Neil has said before it is a five hundred pounds worth of personal tone/opinion. I enjoy your fiestiness, and your heart is good, but coming from one who also calls a spade a spade, sometimes the sheep need a little room and grace to take things in. I know this is a personal message on a public forum, but I feel your post needed a public response. For I sense, not wanting to be to presumptious, that I may be speaking for allot of people who have said something to you.Attempting to honour you,

Why is it that when someone stands up and calls a spade a spade like Krispy did, he is called spitefull and negative... I believe that in posting his message Krispy has alerted some people who may believe the "gospel of Osteen" to take a closer look. We all claim to follow Christ, take a look in Matthew 23 to see how He responded to error by the religious leaders of His day....Greg :roll:

Hi, I wrote a PM to KrispyKrittr some days ago and then I had to send two more PM's, to appologise to him because I had been too hasty.He is right in that we do not know what goes on behind the scenes.So KrispyKrittr, I appologise publicly here to you.ellie

Smokey wrote:We all claim to follow Christ, take a look in Matthew 23 to see how He responded to error by the religious leaders of His day....I think the major difference Greg, is that he was speaking directly to them. He was not standing up in the cogregation of like minded saints telling of the evils of the pharisiacal holiness club.

KrispyKrittr wrote:Basically what I am saying is I am not the only one who has a responsibility to be tolerant and patient as we all wade thru this together.Get my drift, bro?To a certain degree, yes. ;-) Now its just a question of where we are all going to sit at a banquet and who will get off the soapbox first.

ZekeoPerhaps Luke 12:1 is a better example of our Savior exposing error. There are many many instances where Jesus warned those following Him to watch false teachings..I can look them all up, and post them here, but I think you get the point. IT IS NOT WRONG TO EXPOSE ERROR. There should be more of it in Christian circles, then maybe some of this false teaching would have been left at the door, and not be infecting our houses of worship.

Zeke,I am much in agreement with you here. It has alot to do with tone and attitude.I also posted something quite awhile ago about my concern over the Osteen following. And I am still concerned over it- not him, but it- the message.Like I told Krispy in a pm, I do not dislike Osteen, and do feel we need to respect him as a human being and love him, I do believe that the message he preaches - which is what Tozer and Wilkerson calls counterfeit christianity- should be called for what it is.It is heart breaking to see people flocking to this kind of gospel and believing that this is the gospel. My heart breaks for the Lord. He deserves His glory and the obedience and honor of His people in a real way.No, we should not knock "people" per se-The trouble is that the real truth, the real gospel is available, but many are a little blinded by the counterfeit and also there is alot of mixture of both.My heart grieves over the thousands that are believing that they are following the christian life because they may be following the principles in books such as Osteen's. This doesn't mean I hate him or think he is a bad man. But the fact is that he is deceiving people. Should we just keep our mouths shut about it all?Yes, we should present the truth, we should give examples of great men and women who have gone before us, this helps tremendously with helping people have discernment, but, like Tozer and Wilkerson, we need to expose some false beliefs and false gospels. We can probably do that without mentioning names, I suppose.Again I am reminded of working out our own salvation with fear and trembling- but that salvation includes obedience to what the Lord lays on our hearts about proclaiming the true gospel too.When we post or try to expose things that are false, it must be done prayerfully and thoughtfully- with God's glory in mind. I definitely agree with Neil as well! We should be looking to the ones who HAVE lived their lives sold out to Christ. That is what I am doing with my own children. Hoping it will help them with their discernment as they get older. But I will also warn them of what is false because the false can seem so good and sweet that it overshadows the sacrificial lives of those who have gone before us.Just my 2 cents :)In Christ, Chanin

Progress! Praise God you good people...Think Zekeo hit it on the crux of it: "Tone". And it is the usual culprit that gets things in such disarray. It is also wrought with it's own inherent problems, because it is often difficult to "hear" that through this medium, not always but at times. "Care" would be maybe a good word to interject, not an egg shell walk, but just some understanding that this is out before all to partake in and some consideration of how and which words we are choosing to convey our expressions.Read through both 1 and 2 Timothy this morning after a pretty healthy dose of Job. Felt led to these and the correlations were interesting.Reading Job's replies as his 'friends' were dragging him further down with their doctrine and 'helps', it got to the point where I couldn't bear listening to them and just concentrated on Job's comments, complaints and didn't find it to difficult to see things from his perspective. If it was you or I how might have we reacted? Despite it all, the moments where he still stubbornly refused to let go of God and interspersed great articulation to Gods glory and Soverignty... maybe moments of clarity while he was trying to grasp just what was happening to himself?Jumping over to Timothy, much said towards arguing over words.. to no profit and many times the exhortation is what is trying to be expressed here:2Ti 2:14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers. 1Ti 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: 2Ti 2:22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 2Ti 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes. I guess what I picked up out the combinations, was that often times there is the sad tendency to act in a manner more often like Job's friends or to get bogged down in things that end up being of no real use whatsoever, only causing strife and division, controversy for controversy's sake. This is just in general and just some musing over it all. One of the stronger moments that struck me was in this:1Ti 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. 1Ti 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. I'll leave it at that, thought it was very applicable.P.S. Thanks Krispy for sharing more about yourself, Jeep?, 80's hair bands? Fishing... 8-)

I am so sick of hearing which believer thinks of that deceiving pastor or which believer thinks about this or that "corrupted" text.enough. I don't have the answer to what motivates someone to look for the bad in everything I can't relate, I always try my personal best to look for the good it make me a much happier person, and I don't know if it is from our childhood or an illness or perfectly normal. I was told one time by a friend years ago he thought it "might" be a lot of anger built up inside or the "little man" syndrome were you tear down others to build yourself up and I don't know if that is true, just sharing what feedback I have personally received from someone. There will always be critics of anyone or anything I just choose not to be one or participate in tearing down but I do choose to be someone to edify and lift up and it really does help me, I feel healthier and happier for being that way. I will say this if you feel like your called to bring out or expose the wrong doings of folks in life that is totally between you and God and I would be the last person to tell you that your wrong because that would be like saying God is wrong, but I really think that if you are called to expose the bad I would be mighty careful and use a lot of tact in doing so. Knowledge of God's Word and His love for us give us the boldness to walk with confidence, It builds us up. When something is "built up," it is "edified." God wants us to be edified, and He wants us to edify others. The body of Christ will continue to need building up until Christ returns. I just feel we have been called to stand together in one body, and should get busy building it up. Romans 15:1 and 2 say "We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves. Let every one of us please his neighbor for his good to edification." People are built up as we use our strengths to strengthen them, but I do realize this is all just my personal opinion and I do respect the opinions of others, and I also no doubt respect anything they feel God has called them to do, just as I would want folks to respect me for what I feel I was called to do, my responsibility is to be sure that the things I do in my own life glorifies God, This promotes a peace in my heart.God BlessMr. Bill :-)

Perhaps it would be good to fine-tune our understanding of negative versus positive. We humans tend to be subjective creatures – evaluating things from our own senses. For example, while we feel gloomy because our picnic is being rained out, the farmer is rejoicing that his fields are receiving rain. I think that there is a place to embrace the negatve - even if it is unrefined and disturbing. Should we not be grateful that there are some who look intently at the negative, who look for the germ that causes the disease, who expose the roots of weeds, who somehow allow our hidden motives to be exposed (even if through the crude words of our children)? Should we not be glad for light of the Spirit shining on the dark corners of our hearts even if it makes us feel miserable? Aught we not to be grateful for those throughout history who expose error – even at the risk being labelled an annoyance? Are we not glad that Jesus was lifted up - with all the shame and ugliness – in order that we could be saved? While there is great power and value in positive thinking, it will never lead us to the cross. Scripture reminds us that the society that doesn’t want God (via the cross) wants instead to have positive messages that tickle the ears. They want to have fun and comfort. To some extent, I include myself in that lot – because I am a product of society. I must admit, I get disturbed by those who seem to be carry a “chip” (weight) on their shoulders while never expressing a hint of gratitude over God’s sovereignty and goodness. I’d love to shake them up and give them a lesson on positive thinking. But that is not God’s way. I think we need to allow risks rather than take control of others. In my past I have been on forums that were heavily controlled – making sure that no negative words were expressed. In doing so, they placed themselves on a slippery slop leading down into deception – all the while squelching any warnings, and accusing God’s messengers of having a negative spirit. We are all works in progress – and haven’t arrived yet. We see through a glass but dimly. Perhaps intense prayer is better than intense control. Diane