homosexuality

my teacher is actually a catholic, but of course they still read the same bibleHate to burst your bubble... but no, the Catholics do NOT read the same Bible.Krispy

So can someone please tell me what i can tell someone when they hate gays because they know gays are going to hell.What makes you think that when someone says that without repentence and turning to Christ for salvation a person will be in hell for eternity is hate? The loving thing to do is to warn someone of their sin... to tell them there is a way out of eternal judgement thru Christ. How can that be hateful?Do people hate sodomites? Absolutely some Christians do, I'm not denying it. But your post is so wishy-washy on this. The Word states very plainly where God stands on this subject. He calls us all to repentance... and without repentence (forsaking our sin), and continuing willingly in our sin... there is no salvation.People have to be told that... and told boldly.It's not hate. You seem very confused on what love is. Love is not a warm fuzzy.Krispy

luckyd, There is a key verse in Romans 1 which says 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.Here, Paul is not creating a new strand of the gospel, he is applying God's word from the law which was given to Moses, for New Testament believers, to make sure none us think Christianity is an ideology which applies from the neck up only.We are all familiar with the first commandment - to love God. This is further re-inforced by the second commandment in which idolatry is forbidden, part of the practices of which include a long list of specific sexual behaviours, of which homosexual acts is only one. (Lev 18)Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, This is a very important statement, because again, it is not new. Paul links it to people being dishonest with truth about God. Paul is saying there is a link between denying truth about God and gradually coming to believe God does not exist. Once a person believes there is no God, there is no good reason not to behave as he likes. Probably, you should read the whole of Paul's explanation from v 13 - 32 (Romans 1).The Old Testament also has something to say about fools - 'The fool hath said in his heart "There is no God"' (Psalm 14:1 says the same as Psalm 53:1 'The fool hath said in his heart, [There is] no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: [there is] none that doeth good.')According to the law (of God) in the Old Testament, people who committed homosexual acts could expect to be cut off from Him for ever. This didn't stop it happening. But, in Romans 2, Paul says ' despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?' (v 4) And that's where we are today, advising homosexuals to repent. In another place, Paul is reminding a church how important it is to cease from certain named sins:1 Corinthians 6*9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.What Paul says here is important, as it is specific and clear. Those who come to Christ can be saved, from homosexuality. To a homosexual, this is an important part of the gospel to him (or her). There are many places in the Bible, where it says the word of God will endure for ever. Jesus was the Word made Flesh. He said 'I am the Truth'.The gospel is not open to negotiation. Christ Himself proved that it is possible to live a life of sexual purity. That's why, when you say your teacher raised the subject, I believe it was to make sure you guys know how important it is to get your sexual behaviour into line with God's word. (See* above This doesn't mean not being married, but it does mean not doing many other things (not just gay things) which are against God's commands.I was in class and about 2 or 3 times homosexuality was brought up from a teacher. We were able to bring up daily discussions for about 15 minutes. for example a kid one day said something about a bishop admitting he was gay.The bishop, even with a different Bible, will know that homosexuality is an abomination in God's sight.

I did hear a testimony once, of a Christian who had come from a family in which homosexuality was expected. He had practised it from boyhood. But, when he came to the Lord, he knew he had to abstain, and did so, year after year (for 7 years). Then, God began to speak to him about getting married, and eventually he did. This kind of testimony is not uncommon in Christian circles, but, because of Christian attitudes to homosexuality, it is not always well-received to testify about it in one's home church! Personally, I think this is sad. It shows that ordinary believers are not familiar with the understanding of what a radical change Christ can make in a life, even leading men to become ministers, after such a background. Also, it offers very little hope to the young men and women who may be wondering about these things for themselves, depending on their own experiences, as they don't get a role model from within their local body of believers. People like the gay bishop you mentioned, do absolutely nothing to help the power of the gospel reach the ears of those who need to hear it.

Is it any wonder that many "gays" hate chrisitans? The only word many christians have for gays is "hell".Being gay is no doubt one of the most difficult and empty life styles on earth. Wealth has no bearing on well being. It is empty, lonely, and often deeply troubling to the gay.Their houses are built on quick sand. They dont' need a storm to destroy it, it folds up all too quickly on it's own.Given the opportunity, I really don't believe that anyone would choose to be gay. If you the reader are hetrosexual and think it is a choice, let me ask you this. When did you did you choose to be hetrosexual? What criteria did you use? Gender orientation usually occurs when one is very immature emotionally. It is not something that is decided upon after much experience or investigation, and education. Just because you or I may not be gay, does not relive us the responsibility of being compassionate and loving. Does the gay have the right to condemn you because of your lying, gossipping, over eating, speeding? Just pick one. We all have at least one. If you're like me, you have more than one. The fact is that all have sinned and fallen short. That lumps us all together. There is only one redemption for this problem. Jesus Christ. Gays have just as much rigth to grace as anyone else. Share the love and mercy of Jesus with them, and the Holy Spirit will deal with them about their homosexuality. Is anything impossible for our God? Did God run short on mercy for you? What makes us think that He will for gays? Prejudice is a terrible sin. So are value judgements made by sight. God looks on the inward part. Oh that we could do the same. I have to believe that our quick and simple value judgements are often as much a stench to God as the homosexual sin. We dare not stand in front of the church and pray to God that we are glad we are not like that gay on the back row. Just don't even go there, beloved. Jesus told us to go and preach to all, not just all except gays. The gay community is hurting for those who are willing to lay down his or her life for them and minister the love of Jesus to them. Jesus told the pharasees that their sin was that they did not believe on the One Whom He sent. Unbelief was their big problem. Not gambling, or lust, or whatever. We all know we have a "whatever". What gays need to know is the remedy. His name is Jesus.

It has come to my heart to point out that sodomy, as Krispy rightly called it earlier in the thread, is not confined to homosexuals. Between hetersexuals it is just as abhorrent to God and if perpetrated within marriage, is grounds for divorce. The homosexual nature of sodomy is clear from Genesis 194 But before they lay down, the men of the city, [even] the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: 5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where [are] the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.As a woman, I find Lot's response to this nothing short of horrific, but, you will see it was how men reasoned then (and perhaps, still).7 And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. 8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as [is] good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof. 9 And they said, Stand back. And they said, This one came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, Lot, and came near to break the door. 10 But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door. 11 And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door.(Praise the Lord!)The story in Judges is strange enough, but the way the woman at the centre of the story dies of heart failure (or internal injuries) from her abusers, should cause us to take note of how seriously against nature, is this behaviour.Judges 1922 [Now] as they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, certain sons of Belial, beset the house round about, [and] beat at the door, and spake to the master of the house, the old man, saying, Bring forth the man that came into thine house, that we may know him. And the man, the master of the house, went out unto them, and said unto them, Nay, my brethren, [nay], I pray you, do not [so] wickedly; seeing that this man is come into mine house, do not this folly. Behold, [here is] my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing. But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go. Then came the woman in the dawning of the day, and fell down at the door of the man's house where her lord [was], till it was light. And her lord rose up in the morning, and opened the doors of the house, and went out to go his way: and, behold, the woman his concubine was fallen down [at] the door of the house, and her hands [were] upon the threshold. And he said unto her, Up, and let us be going. But none answered.Edit add: There is also a link between sodomy and temple prostitution 2 Kings 23:7.And in Genesis 14, the King of Sodom turns up in the presence of Abraham and Melchizedec (of whose order is the priesthood of Jesus) when they are about to share bread and wine, to do a business deal (if he can) trading souls for goods.This is a reminder of the connection which some are willing to make, between worship with abominable practices, which God hates. Turning away from these practices is essential, to please God.

I think we may be venturing into territory that could be inappropriate for a public forum such as this one... Let's remember that more than likely there are Christian parents who allow their teens to come to this site.Any discussion of sodomy should be very vague out of consideration for those young folks who read these forums.I'm all for free speech, and this is a topic that should be talked about... but not necessarily here.Krispy

He looks at the sinner and not the sinI dont agree with that completely... God does distinguish between certain types of sin in scripture. Some are called abominations, some are not. Certainly we are all sinners... but there are those sins in which God turns a sinner over... i.e. gives up on that person.Krispy

God will also grant homosexuals and liars salvation if they repent and trust in Jesus. Absolutely... and amen!The impression can be given that we're coming down hard on homosexuals. I'm not... I'm against saying that it's a sin just like stealing a cookie from the cookie jar when mom says no. God has very strong feelings about this sin in particular. I'm against Christians being soft on sin. If we get soft on sin... where does it end up? In the church. Look at the churches today that have allowed homosexuality in. They dont even call for repentence of it... they justify it.Of course we should invite the homosexual in. But we dont condone or gloss over his/her sin. Or any other sin, for that matter.Krispy

Krispy,If it's not inappropriate for God to spell out in the Bible, how can it be inappropriate for a public forum? This is why parents are expected to police what their children do on the internet. If mine were young again, and looking for information on this topic, I'd far rather they come to site like this, where a literally true perspective can be given, than one which does not give God's perspective and simultaneously steers them away from truth.These last few verses of Romans 1 spell out the extremes of thinking and behaviour which can follow from gladly embracing homosexual practice, because of how God deals with them for doing so.Romans 128 And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. The wonder is, that only four verses after these, Paul is talking about the goodness of God leading to repentance. Amen!

I believe we should disscuss their eternal situation just as we would disscuss the eternal destination of anyone who has ever told a lie, stolen, etc....As Christians we should tell them the truth of their lives, but not single out their sexual preferences. All that matters before God is that, "all have sinned".As was pointed out by Krispy earlier in the thread, it is not us, but God who singles out their sexual behaviour for eternal condemnation. (Lev 18) You also mention 'told a lie', which is included on God's special hitlist. It's a false economy not to present the extremity of truth to homosexuals, because sexual expression is profoundly human. These days, Christians may feel confused and concerned they are asking a fellow human to 'do' something which may be impossible and may not be necessary, but, this is to rob the idolater of the whole truth, with all its promise of deliverance.Rev 22:11 "He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still."12 " And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward [is] with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, [the] Beginning and [the] End, the First and the Last." 14 Blessed [are] those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.15 But outside [are] dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.That doesn't make Christians holier-than-thou, it just makes them honest to God, and makes it possible to 'be holy'. 1 Peter 113 Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest [your] hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 14 as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, [as] in your ignorance; 15 but as He who called you [is] holy, you also be holy in all [your] conduct, 16 because it is written, "Be holy, for I am holy." (Lev 11:45) Romans 1 is an accurate analysis of the profound difficulties which come upon those who choose not to acknowledge God. In short, they become turned to a form of idolatry (v 23). This truth cannot be ditched because it seems extreme. The gospel is done a disservice by disbelieving it. Idolatry may not be overt in western society, or, may not be confessed in those words, but, the spiritual effect remains. The importance to God, was laid out in Exodus 20.4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth: 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me; 6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. God sees what we serve.Romans 616 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin [leading] to death, or of obedience [leading] to righteousness?