Forgiveness... your thoughts

He wasn't man enough to do it in my presence... I'm not beyond hurting someone who treats my wife in such a manner, and I am well trained to do so I enjoy the story of the apostle Peter who watched as his wife was being martyred and said to her I'll see you in heaven. I think there's nothing in this life worth keeping me from "Our Father's forgiveness", no matter what. I speak as one who has been through the fire in this respect, as well as my wife of 18yrs. Forgiveness is instant, but if you see this individual as a christian brother you need to call him into accountability and follow the steps Jesus taught on with one or two witnesses. You know the passage. But if he's not a saved person,?.."sinner can't do nothing but sin". In the area of restitution, genuine repentance will being real restitution, unless he's in a situation where monetary restitution is imposible, then if he explains to you and your wife the full situation, you have an obligation to forgive and restore the friendship or at least ask God to bring about restoration and remove all bitterness and suspection of a future mishap-sin-ect....In the church we lack in the area of christian ethical teachings and that's why there's so much confusion in the relationships we form in our local churches. Rember Jesus short circuted alot in His teaching in the area of us lending to one another. He said to give and not expect it in return. I might make a suggestion that you take your "red letter edition" of the bible and just read through the red letter portion of the gospels ----Matt-Mark- Luke- John, just a one or two sitting causual reading, prehaps with your wife and just let the Lord speak to you in His own word out of His Word.

KrispyKrittr wrote:I got a scathing email from this dude informing me that I need to get right with God because forgiveness means that we forget and carry on as tho nothing ever happened. I shouldn't hold them at arm length, and by doing so I am demonstrating that I havent forgiven themKrispyYea, you might have to forgive them but I still haven't found in my Bible were it say's you have to hang out with them. :-) forgiveness means that we forget and carry on as tho nothing ever happened.Yea, let me know when you find out how to forget like nothing happened without some sort or meds. or Brain damage. :-?

Have you ever thought about the sense of 'forgiving sins'. Isn't it the sinner who needs forgiveness rathet than the sins? The word for 'forgiveness' here is actually 'aphesis' which really means to send something away. 'remission of sins' and 'forgivenenss of the sinner' is the real sense of all this. In this sense 'forgiving sins' means to send them away from you. It is the image of the scapegoat.Another word is 'be gracious' which is the word used in Col. 3:13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye. We are to 'gracious' - as Christ. You may recall that the best the prodigal thought he could hope for was 'forgiveness' and a place in the servants' quarters. But the Father had a different view of things. This was no 'arms length' forgiveness.I recall hearing a story of a preacher who returned to visit a church after and interval of a year or so. He met an old lady at the door and began to talk to her about the things he had heard during his last visit. "Are you alright?" he asked "I know you had gone through a difficult time when I was last here". "I'm fine" said the old lady. "and are you alright in yourself" he asked "I remember that some folks in the church had been very unkind to you". "No, I don't remember that" said the old lady. "But you must" said the preacher "I remember you telling me". "No" said the old lady "I don't remember and I remember the day I decided not to remember".There is a difference between 'not remembering' and 'forgetting'. God has not said He will forget our sins but that He will not remember them. This is even better than forgetting, because if I forget someone might remind me, but if I refuse to remember they can't remind me however hard they try. Did you notice how hard the other brother tried to remind the Father of the behaviour of the younger son? and the Father's reaction?Biblically, forgiveness is always with reconciliation in view. To say 'I will forgive but I can't forget' may be absolutely true i human terms, but we are no longer 'only human' and we may become partakers of the nature of Him for whom it is also possible to 'forgive and to refuse to remember'.this is not a put-down for the original post, but an encouragement to seek God for the necessary grace to behave as He would. He never did say this would be easy; in fact, He said it would cost us our lives. How are we to understand 'forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us'? Do we really want God to forgive us at 'arms length'?“And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him. And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son. But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet: And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry: For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.”(Luke 15:20-24, KJVS)

As many others have, I’ve read entire books on forgiveness but these few short paragraphs by Ron have been more of an encouragement than any work I have read and brings much into sharp focus of what Christ desires in and through us.Thank You Philologos,tonys

I agree with TonyS's response to what Philo has shared with us on this subject. MC

Neilgin wrotethis guy Mark Hurst spoke of the myths of forgiveness, I'll paste them and paste the URL of the page::This is the other side of the coin but absolutely right too. This basis would prevent what I shared becoming a nice theory. Thanks Neil, this is good stuff; its gone straight into my notebook. :-)

hello, KrispyKrittr my friend."forgiveness is not something we can do automatically... not in our flesh anyway. Actually, in our flesh godly forgiveness is impossible."[font=Georgia]not in our flesh anyway. Actually, in our flesh godly forgiveness is impossible." [/font]What does this mean? having in mind that my ex husband has caused me extreme suffering for 20 yrs. And treats our adult children in a cruel manner. They yearn for his love which he does not give and he plays each one against the other. Likened to a human game playing. These are my children also and I have never been able to intervene, because of his lies.He even managed 5years ago to have me Bannished from my Eldest Sons wedding. I was aloud to go to the church so I did see the Wedding and I stood with God at the back of the church and he covered me so much that I did not feel the humiliation in front of people I knew. (My brother and mother were with me)My Eldest Son who became estranged from me when I left the Marital home 15years ago. He has been seeing some truths about his dad and my son has let me have my Grandaughter twice a week, since she was born. He finds it difficult to let me into his life. He speaks a bit more to me now and I patiently wait on God for good outcomes for all my Children. "God in their lives. I live in hope."And so I have had to continually let go of my unforgivness toward my ex. But have always been told I have to forgive. Which I have asked Jesus to help me to do, through the years.To entertain speaking to him and being friendly is out of the question. I would not invite him to my table. There are further, very strong reasons why.ellie

I see in ellie's post a good question here. What are we to do when a person is persistent in offending with a high hand? What if they never turn and say to us "I repent." What if they say- "I'm going to keep driving my daggar in and if you don't like it- you can lump it. And as a matter of fact- I don't want your forgiveness!" What then? Alexander the Coppersmith was such an one. Paul said he "done me much evil." Interesting is his reply. Steven cried out "lay not this sin to their account" (Acts 7), yet Paul writes "... the Lord reward him according to his works." By tradition we could say that it is among the last words he ever penned. he ended the whole of his volumous works with that statement just a few verses from the end. What is the difference between the situation with Paul and the situation with Stephen? Had Alexander the Coppersmith highhandedly sinned until he reached the place where John said "I do not say that he shall pray for it..."?

I have been looking at your reply and looked again and again puzzled and then suddenly, (I don't know if you know this saying), The penny dropped. And I went, right.. I see it.I now understand Praise God....And this next one. I can do all things thru Christ who strengthens me... the flip side is that without Him I can do nothing.I live it every day.Thankyouellie

I think also it would be wise to consider the difference between those who are Children of God and those who are still in Sin. Some passages on forgiveness:Matthew 15:1615 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.24 And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.25 But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.28 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.29 And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.31 So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses. I notice "from your hearts" in these last verses. I recall a passage from Hebrews referring to a "root of bitterness springing up troubling you and thereby many be defiled." I suppose that 'bitterness' could refer to any number of soul poisoning things- but bitterness against a person is real estate for the enemy to build a stronghold. Let not the sun go down upon your wrath, neither give "place" (topos) to the Devil. When we go to bed with our wrath the enemy takes up some real estate in our lives.

Another thought to consider in this is the 'damage' done by the offense. I have a cousin who was shot through the spine accidentally by a man who was target practicing with a compound bow. It was negligence on the part of the shooter lets say. Now, the shooter says, "will you forgive me?" The victim says YES! Your forgiven. But then the shooter takes it upon themself (though forgiven) to help mend the individual back to health. They stayed in the ER and through the surgery at the hospital. They took him to MANY of his therapy appointments and did all he could to help the man mend. God had to heal my cousin- but the shooter had a role to play also. He could have walked away and said "I'm forgiven!" See ya and wouldn't want to be ya! If he had done that would my cousin have been justified in saying, "wait a minute!, are you not at least going to call an ambulance? I'm bleeding here, please help me! I can't feel my legs! Help me, please I'm begging you!" What had it been if the shooter had walked off and said- "just take the pain man! Deal with it! You forgave me now get over it! Quit talking about it!" The victim ... "But I'm still bleeding! I still am hurt and I need your help!" ... The shooter just walks off and says... "Cast what I did into the sea of forgetfulness! You never forgave me or you would drop it!" The victim cries out... "No, you don't understand I still can't walk. You have gone on- but the injury to me has not healed yet. I need you to help me heal." The shooter just says, "Well, I can't heal you God will have to do that. You need to give it to God and pray more. You need a spiritual backbone about this. You didn't really forgive me or you would leave me alone."The man that actually shot my cousin was with him as much as possible until he could walk again. The man died in a boat fire. What lesson can we learn from what this real life shooter did do and what we should consider about what he could have done? All the shooter was being is 'humane'. He was not a Christian as far as I know. What compelled him to do the right thing? We'll never know- but it was a great testimony as to how to react when you really hurt someone.