The coming Elijah

Hi,Quick question. When did Elijah come a second time?Malachi 4:5 Look, I am going to send you Elijah the prophet before the great and awesome Day of the Lord comesMatthew 11:14 if you're willing to accept it, he [John the Baptist] is the Elijah who is to come. Matthew 17:10 So the disciples questioned Him, "Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?"17:11"Elijah is coming and will restore everything," He replied.17:12"But I tell you: Elijah has already come, and they didn't recognize him. On the contrary, they did whatever they pleased to him. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands."17:13Then the disciples understood that He spoke to them about John the Baptist. BUTJohn 1:21 "What then?" they asked him [John the Baptist]. "Are you Elijah?" "I am not," he said. "Are you the Prophet?" "No," he answered.So my question is, Was John the Baptist Elijah and if not, who was Elijah and when did he come?Thanks

Dear Jaysaved,Consider that Elijah is one of the two witnesses that are to come during the tribulation. Elijah and probably Moses will come during that period before the Day of the Lord. Rev. 11:3-11Elijah and Moses were on the Mount of Transfiguration with Jesus also. Luke 9:28-36In Christ,GaryE

Was John the baptist, Elijah? No! John the baptist was influenced spiritualy with Elijah's ministry. Is Elijah still to come? If you study the characteristics of Elijah and John the baptist there are similarities, "make straight the way of the lord". You must remember Elijah did not die. Will there be an actual physical return of the original Elijah or will the characteristics manifest in someone else? Elijah showed signs and wonders, whereas John the baptist showed none. Jesus says:"This generation is a wicked generation; it seeks for a sign, and yet no sign shall be given to it but the sign of Jonah" Luke 11:29. Sounds like the Bestman was consistent with scripture. If you seek signs and wonders you may be deceived. Do what Jesus says; "follow me"

Jay, I am fascinated with this topic. I think it's very relevant for our times.It's interesting that when Jesus was speaking to the multitudes in Matthew 11:14, he qualified his shocking statement about John being Elijah by saying "if you care to accept it." That speaks to me that Jesus knew it wasn't something easy to accept and not everybody would be able to. But in Matthew 17:10-13, when He's talking to His disciples, He simply declares it as a truth that they are to accept, and they understood somehow.Here's some relevant Scriptures that I think might help you.Luke 1:16-17"And he will turn back many of the sons of Israel to the Lord their God. And it is he who will go as a forerunner before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah, TO TURN THE HEARTS OF THE FATHERS BACK TO THE CHILDREN, and the disobedient to the attitude of the righteous; so as to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."This was spoken to John the Baptists father by the angel Gabriel, about John, before John was born.Another relevant Scripture:Mark 9:11-13"And they asked Him, saying, 'Why is it that the scribes say that Elijah must come first?' And He said to them, 'Elijah does first come and restore all things. And yet how is it written of the Son of Man that He should suffer many things and be treated with contempt? But I say to you, that Elijah has indeed come, and they did to him whatever they wished, just as it is written of him."It seems to me that Elijah's "second coming" with John the Baptist was only a partial fulfillment of Malachi 4:5-6. As far as John 1:21, it has bothered me as well. I suppose it is open to interpretation. I personally feel that John didn't know he was Elijah. It seems clear that in a sense he was and in a sense he wasn't. He wasn't just Elijah, he was John the Baptist. And yet he was Elijah, in a sense. I think of it as some kind of mystical connection. And it kind of reminds me of the mystery of Jesus Himself. Is He man or God? Well, both. Is it correct to say Jesus is a man? Yes. Is it correct to say Jesus is God? Yes.In the same way. Is it correct to say John was John? Yes. Is is correct to say John was Elijah? Yes.Mysterious to me? Yes! What seems to be most relevant to our times is Elijah's third coming, which seems to be refered to in Mark 9:12 and Matthew 17:11. Both of these seem to indicate a future coming of Elijah. It seems clear that John the Baptist had already died when Jesus made these statements (see Mark 6:27-28 and Matthew 14:10-11), and I don't think there are any other recorded incidents of Elijah coming after this time. Will he come as a man again? Could it be that this time the spirit and power of Elijah will rest on an entire generation to prepare the way for the Lord? Could it be both? We'll see.

The Lord's testimony to John Baptist is astounding...“And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at nought. But I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they listed, as it is written of him.”(Mark 9:12-13, KJVS)“He was a burning and a shining light: and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light.”(John 5:35, KJVS)“For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.”(Luke 7:28, KJVS)Christ's ministry was like the rising sun, while John's was like the morning star. He was the brightest phenomena ever seen until the sun arose with healing in his wings; then John's bright and shining lamp was eclipsed by the greater glory of the Son. John's ministry represents the greates revival that Israel ever saw and in that he 'restored all things' brings the OT experience to its greatest fulfillment during his ministry. “And the same John had his raiment of camel’s hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey. Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan, And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.”(Matt. 3:4-6, KJVS)This record of the pervasivness of John's work is thrilling; Jerusalem, all Judaea, all the region around Jordon. The whole nation was stirred by his ministry.One aspect of his Elijah-likeness is this feature of 'restoration'. “And Elijah said unto all the people, Come near unto me. And all the people came near unto him. And he repaired the altar of the LORD that was broken down.”(1Kings 18:30, KJVS) John Baptist did the same in spirit, preparing a people for God's greatest revelation of Himself. “And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.”(John 1:31, KJVS)

Ron,Fascinating!Would it then be proper to say that a national revival in physical Israel, where the Israeli people see and come unto a restored (spiritual) "altar" to the Lord is to come to pass, therefore providing the means and preparing the way for the King of Glory?I don't want to make any assertions for you, but those were the thoughts that arrested me while I was reading your post.Surely many of us are aware of the "John the Baptist Generation" understanding of the last days, where a nameless, faceless, broken people overtake the earth by the Spirit of Elijah to cry out in the wilderness "Prepare the way of the Lord!" I know you and I both believe Israel has a major part to play, though others would disagree. Though I haven't considered to the depth that I believe you have here....Any further thoughts on the issue of how the so-called "third" coming of Elijah relates to the salvation of Israel?

couch!ouch!!I wouldn't know where to start with your posting. :-? I have heard the chorus 'these are the days of etc' but other than that I have not met with the concepts you outline here, unless it is a variant of older ideas. I am usually very suspicious of end-time scenarios. I had better be silent until someone tells me where we are going with this. ;-)

I've heard people say that the two witnesses in REV. are types and not literal. To be honest

Taking a historico-grammatical approach, I would have to say that according to the text they must be real people. But golly-gee I'm one of those silly dispensationalists :-D .

dorcas, Thank you for your compliments. That's a good question you ask. I can't say I know for sure, but I have my own understanding of the answer. You make a very good point that Jesus' first coming was, in a sense, great and awesome. Looking deeper into the Hebrew might help us. My NASB Bible gives this translation of Malachi 4:5-6..."Behold, I am going to send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and terrible day of the LORD. And he will restore the hearts of the fathers to their children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the land with a curse."The Hebrew word for "great" in verse 5 is "Gadowl" (#1419). This word speaks of "great (in any sense), exceeding, far, high, long, loud, mighty, noble, proud thing." It also comes from the Hebrew root "Gadal" (#1431) which speaks of "to twist, to make large (in various senses as in body, mind, estimate or honor, also in pride): advance, boast, bring up, exceed, magnify, proudly, tower." In contemplating this word, I could see how you might understand it as speaking about Jesus' first coming. But I see Jesus' first coming more in the sense of a humble, quiet coming. Yes, it accomplished great and mighty things, but in a humble and quiet manner. Jesus didn't receive honor and praise from all men. The ideas expressed in the Hebrew of loud, high, mighty, proud, noble, honorable, etc. don't seem to really fit His first coming, as I see it. Though I certainly see your point and don't think it's necessarily wrong. I'll explain more in a moment.The Hebrew word for "terrible" in verse 5 is "Yare" (#3372). This word speaks of "to be afraid, to fear, revere; to be feared; to be dreadful; to be reverenced; to terrify, make afraid, holy respect." My OT Word Study says, "There are two main types of fear described by yare: (a)the emotion and intellectual anticipation of harm, what one feels may go wrong for him; (b) a very positive feeling of awe or reverence for God, which may be expressed in piety or formal worship." In contemplating this word, Jesus' first coming seems even further removed from matching it's description. I suppose you could kind of match it up if you really tried, but it doesn't seem to fit real well. Instead of being loud, high, esteemed, revered, honored, and dreaded; He was despised and forsaken of men. We did not esteem Him. He was crushed, scourged, oppressed afflicted, yet He did not open His mouth. Like a lamb is led to the slaughter, and like a sheep that is silent before its shearers, so He did not open His mouth. (see Isaiah 53) But He will have His day! His day of honor and glory is yet to come. When every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that He is Lord. All will revere Him in that day. I believe that will be the complete fulfillment of "the great and terrible day of the Lord." But I wonder, how profound and deep is this truth? Could both of His comings be found in it? Could Malachi be referring to both of His comings?

my last sentence didn't type out---didn't see that. I said to be honest I don't know. I guess I figured if the jews of Jesus day, who were pretty sharp , if they missed it, what about us?

Hi Dohzman,I hope you didn't take my post as being antagonistic. This topic is certainly one of the potentially controversial ones. We certainly could miss it and many do. Eschatology is something I've been refreshing myself on lately. In doing so I've discovered that I need to study it a little deeper. Not to become a preacher who travels with his maps and charts and graphs and stats to mesmerize his hearers, but because it's a topic that fills the Bible from the beginning to the end.

Quote:"I guess I figured if the jews of Jesus day, who were pretty sharp , if they missed it, what about us?"Good point. I agree. I figure it's good to learn about it but it's important not to fill in the gaps that God has left with logical conclusions and then set your heart and teaching as "this is the correct understanding." One of my professors at college used to say something along the lines of, "If eschatalogical fulfillment of the New Testament compares to that of the Old Testament, we're in for some surprises."

Brother I didn't take your comment in any negative fashion, I just noticed that while I was typing before I post that it had timed out on some of my post. Then while writting the follow up I was able to explain further. I personally think like many here that the two witnesses will be literal, but? The whole thing between Jesus and His explaination on John the baptist has always placed a big question mark in the back of my mind as to the 2 witnesses as to literal or figurative.