Perpetua documentary

Ironically, Sreeram, the answer to your question is found in Acts 20:29.

By 200 AD a number of spurious "gospels" had been written, besides the false teaching of gnostics and other heretics who sought to undermine the faith.

brother sreeram,

could you find a factual account that documented that her prayers brought someone from hell to heaven.

What I do know about the early church is that they esteemed greatly the martyrs, as our Lord was the first "martyr". The day some of the more noteable martyrs died on was commentrated yearly, meaning they took time that day to pray to God to ask for the faith and endurance the martyr had and took time to recall the faith of that one.

Also their example could be followed as they were "sure ones" in heaven by the way they lived and died, ie finished well. Taking it a step further I believe some would add in their prayers on these days requests to God for that martyr to pray for them.

The same mentality we have for godly anointed men of God we meet, we put more value on their prayers to be effectual at times to help us.

These are just a few of my quick thoughts for you brother.

Sree, I've just begun some research on Perpetua. So far I have not encountered any claims from her own writings that she prayed & saw people removed from hell to heaven.

I did see that Montanism was already plaguing the church of her day. When I illustrated the testimony of St. Patrick I used only his writings, because centuries later the Catholic church tried to claim him as their own and created false history and crazy fantasies about him. The Catholics did the same with Polycarp centuries after his martyrdom. This may be the case with Perpetua. I will have to read further.

P.S. Having read further, I found this account which purports to be her own writing where she claims she prayed her deceased 7 year old brother out of "a dark place" and into heaven. Since people from Adam onwards have a fallen nature and are prone to mistakes, even gross errors, I would say this is one such example. Was Perpetua saved? I believe so. She confessed Christ as her Saviour. Was she given to flights of fancy? Perhaps, as shown here:

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/perpetua.html

But *now* her theology is correct, and her experiences pure in Christ. It is not surprising what the human mind can conceive when faced with a martyrdom from wild animals and arena gladiators. Perpetua was no doubt under great duress.

I fully agree, having illustrated Singh's story back in 2006:

https://calvarycomics.com/publications/sadhu_sundar_singh.html

Can this be extended to dead people whom we know for sure are in heaven? I honestly don't know.

It is certain, our Lord Jesus Christ is praying for us right now.

Hebrews 7:25 New King James Version (NKJV)

25 Therefore He is also able to save [a]to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

The thinking of the ancient christians is that the prayers of the saints living and "dead" (but they are still actually living in heaven praying). go before the throne of God.

Revelation 8:3-4 New King James Version (NKJV)

3 Then another angel, having a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. 4 And the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, ascended before God from the angel’s hand.

So these prayers are effectual even those saints in heaven praying for the Church on earth, the ancient church believed that even the angels intercession and help was applicable to us, Jesus was strengthened by angels during his life on this earth.

Clement of Alexandria
"In this way is he [the true Christian] always pure for prayer. He also prays in the society of angels, as being already of angelic rank, and he is never out of their holy keeping; and though he pray alone, he has the choir of the saints standing with him [in prayer]” (Miscellanies 7:12 [A.D. 208]).

Origen
"But not the high priest [Christ] alone prays for those who pray sincerely, but also the angels . . . as also the souls of the saints who have already fallen asleep” (Prayer 11 [A.D. 233]).

Cyril of Jerusalem
"Then [during the Eucharistic prayer] we make mention also of those who have already fallen asleep: first, the patriarchs, prophets, apostles, and martyrs, that through their prayers and supplications God would receive our petition” (Catechetical Lectures 23:9 [A.D. 350]).

To me it is undeniable that the prayers of other beleivers even the ancient prayers of the Apostle Paul in some way effect and have helped us. It is a mystery and we cannot claim to know "exactly" how but we can be thankful to God that when we utter a prayer for the entire Church to be "pure and spotless" before His Coming, that makes a small difference for believers.

A number of these post-Scripture "church fathers" had terrible theology, Sree and Greg.

Origen was a universalist who taught that, in the end, everyone would go to heaven. He also taught that Mary was perpetually a sinless virgin which Catholic Rome later latched onto. Furthermore::

ORIGEN AND REJECTING PRE-MILLENNIALISM
March 15, 2016
The Berean Call

Origen (A.D. 250) was the first to reject the doctrine of the millennium. He was however "a poor divine and a sorry philosopher," and, as Martin Luther wrote, his interpretations are to be avoided. According to his system, the sacred writings may be made to say everything, anything, or nothing, according to the fancy, peculiar creed, or caprice of the interpreter. He taught many false doctrines, as that magic is true and lawful science; that human souls existed previous to conception, and are condemned to animate mortal bodies in order to expiate evils committed in a pre- existent state; the universal restoration of the lost after a limited punishment, etc. and, above all, that the Scriptures are of little use if we understand them as they are written, and that the words in many parts of the Bible convey no meaning at all.

This man was the first opponent of pre-millennial doctrine, and Augustine, Jerome, and a multitude of the subsequent Fathers followed his teachings.

--H. Grattan Guiness (Light for the Last Days, chapter 19)

It's the universalism & bizarre ideas about pre-existing souls & belated punishment that particularly raised my eyebrows.

He also castrated himself, according to Eusebius.

It's the universalism & bizarre ideas about pre-existing souls & belated punishment that particularly raised my eyebrows.

Origen was never considered a "St." meaning historical churches did not agree with all of his teaching but he definetly was a godly theologian. He was a genius and wrote "2,000 treatises in multiple branches of theology"

"Origen sought martyrdom with his father at a young age, but was prevented from turning himself in to the authorities by his mother. "

"He was tortured for his faith during the Decian persecution in 250 and died three to four years later from his injuries."

from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origen

for your consideration:

"Origen was not a universalist, at least not in the popular sense of a "universalist” as one who believes that all religious paths lead to the same summit, nor in the specific doctrinal position that the goodness of God demands the ultimate restoration of all things and the salvation of all creatures without exception. On the other hand, according to Frederick Norris in The Westminster Handbook to Origen, Origen’s view of apokatastasis (i.e., the ultimate restoration of creation) is not definitive but pastoral. Norris points out that Origen was not a systematic theologian in the manner of Augustine. His various, if apparently contradictory teachings on apokatastasis signify Origen’s dual role as both intellectual and pastor."

read more: https://calvinistinternational.com/2014/05/19/origen-universalist/