Orthodox Church | SermonIndex

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drifter Jan 1, 2020

This is a good article for understanding the Orthodox Church and its soteriology.

"Many years of missionary work in Eastern Europe and Russia have led me to conclude that the gospel is not often proclaimed in the Orthodox Church. Church services are ritualistic exercises that focus on the icons and the sacraments. It is all too easy to trust in those sacraments to save one and on the icons to sanctify one rather than in the finished work of Christ on the Cross in our behalf. Though we cannot judge what is in the heart of another, we can certainly assume that most people in the Orthodox Church need to hear and respond to the good news of Jesus Christ and need to turn to Him for forgiveness of sins and to trust in His work on the Cross for their salvation." -Dr. D. Trent Hyatt

The full article can be read here:
https://answersingenesis.org/world-religions/eastern-orthodoxy/

sermonindex Jan 1, 2020

He ends the article on an interesting note:

"A Concluding Question
One last question might trouble some. Is it possible for a born-again believer to be a practicing member of the Orthodox Church? Of course it is as long as they repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and His death, burial, and Resurrection! As Jesus told Nicodemus, the Spirit blows where He wills (John 3:8). There are without doubt born-again believers in all kinds of places and churches. What is not possible is to claim that all in any particular church or denomination are saved just because they are members of that church or denomination. This certainly applies to the Orthodox Church, but it also applies to Protestant churches. Salvation and membership in the Body of Christ, the Church universal, is dependent on a personal relationship with the Christ of Scripture that comes about by personal repentance and faith in Him, not through belonging to any particular local church, denomination, or tradition. The Lord knows those who are His (2 Timothy 2:19)!

Many years of missionary work in Eastern Europe and Russia have led me to conclude that the gospel is not often proclaimed in the Orthodox Church. Church services are ritualistic exercises that focus on the icons and the sacraments. It is all too easy to trust in those sacraments to save one and on the icons to sanctify one rather than in the finished work of Christ on the Cross in our behalf. Though we cannot judge what is in the heart of another, we can certainly assume that most people in the Orthodox Church need to hear and respond to the good news of Jesus Christ and need to turn to Him for forgiveness of sins and to trust in His work on the Cross for their salvation. This is, indeed, the message that all people need to hear."

Well there you go, you could say the same of a southern baptist church were many were "raised" in the church and assented to a "sinners prayer" without really repenting.

What is mis-leading is the word "cult" hanging over the article, that is clearly not the case as he gives grace to the Orthodox in the end to be saved "as long as they repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and His death, burial, and Resurrection!"

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passerby Jan 2, 2020

We could say that the true church is not composed of groups or churches but by individuals who put their faith in the gospel of Christ and heed their lives to His teaching and guidance as laid down in the bible.

It is our individual participation and obligation as a christian to race for life, to finish it, and dedicate our lives for it.

The prime task in which the apostles were told to do is to proclaim the way of salvation through faith in Christ and to teach in what manner we ought to live.

The only orthodoxy that matters is the one that faithfully follows the teaching of Christ and His apostles. Beware of rituals, ceremonies, and nobilities.

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ArthurRosh Jan 2, 2020

James McQuilkin who overhearing a Mrs Colville (a Baptist missionary from England) talk to a lady about knowing she was saved, and feeling this lady had a lack of theological learning quizzed her if she was a Calvinist. She responded by saying "I do not care to talk on mere points of doctrine. I would rather speak of the experience of salvation in the soul. If one were to tell me what he knows of the state of his heart towards God, I think I could tell him whether he knows the Lord Jesus savingly."

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savannah Jan 2, 2020

"If one were to tell me what he knows of the state of his heart towards God, I think I could tell him whether he knows the Lord Jesus savingly."

Maybe it'd go something like this;

https://youtu.be/iUV5T9JIJZ0

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Gloryandgrace Jan 2, 2020

That sword of the Spirit which we use to discern and weigh the doctrines being preached in various churches and denominations is able to part biblical truth from actual practices and beliefs. So this author did part greek orthodoxy in doctrines from biblical revelation.

However as others have wisely considered, the other side of that sword parts our own beliefs and practices from the truth of scripture as well.

I have witnessed first hand in a mainline Pentecostal Church the congregation had almost no understanding of Romans 4 and righteousness by faith. Their preaching on divine love and Holy Spirit indwelling never included God's revelation that we are justified by faith, not by works.

The congregation as a whole was amazed and astounded at the teaching of one of its lay ministers who addressed the topic of righteousness by faith...it was as though they had never heard of such a wonderful truth.

Their repentance from dead works...as great as any that might be found in a Greek Orthodox or Catholic Church was made manifest in their own confessions that they feared the loss of their salvation because they were not righteous or serving God as God had commanded.

This year, let us all believe and live out the word of God so that we are all living epistles known and read of all men.

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drifter Jan 3, 2020

My posting this article is not meant to be a blanket indictment of all Orthodox christians. I know there are sincere christians among them. I believe the true church has nothing to do with denominations; it is the Body of Christ and is composed of every blood bought believer.

I agree with you, Greg, many southern Baptists are not saved, they think saying a prayer is a magic formula to keep the out of hell. The same can be said for many denominations.

I was raised Anglican. When I was baptized at age seven, I remember all the kids from Sunday school asking me "Do you feel different?" I honestly answered "No." I took communion many times, that never had any magic cure for sin either. No one in the church, including my parents, made any attempt to explain to me how to know God. I went to a private christian school for three years. Again, I hadn't the foggiest clue of how to be saved. When I was 10 and my parents separated, my father (who was a drug addict, he had relapsed after being clean for 14 years) asked me to say the sinner's prayer. I did; I was given the impression that was all I had to do to be a christian. Nothing happened. My heart was not changed. I was baptized again when I was 18, by my own choice (I was under tremendous conviction of sin then.) Again, no change.

It grieves me to see people staking their souls on some religious hocus pocus, whether that hocus pocus is the Baptist variety, the Orthodox variety, the Catholic variety, the Pentecostal variety or any other.

If and when Orthodox priests actually preach the gospel and souls are saved, and I'm sure it does happen, I leap for joy. I would go to an Orthodox church if the presence of God is there (not a solemn, reverent atmosphere some people mistake for the presence of God.)

What concerns me about their particular denomination is 1. their tendency to elevate tradition above scripture and, 2. their claim to be the only true church (any time a denomination says this you can be sure they aren't.)

sermonindex Jan 3, 2020

Like the Roman Catholics, the Orthodox pray to Mary. The Catholics pray to "saints" and so do the Orthodox. The former bow to statues, and the latter to icons (flat images).

Religiosity is not relationship.

I have many born again Greek friends who came out of the Orthodox church once they were saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, and especially after being baptized in the Holy Spirit. They could no longer remain in a dead church.

B. H. Clendennen, a classical pentecostal preacher & founder of the School of Christ International, said that the biggest enemies of the underground church in Russia were not Russian police or government soldiers, but the Orthodox church prelates who vigorously persecuted those who preached the full Gospel.

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itysmang Jan 4, 2020

Did you read Gandhi? Truth is like a big tree. The trunk is one, but many branches and leaves.
How to find out who is actually wrong?

sermonindex Jan 4, 2020

Sadhu Sundar Singh, perhaps India's most famous Christian of the early 20th century, said that if Mahatma Gandhi and Rabindranath Tagore had not visited Europe they would likely have become Christians. When Gandhi met Singh in 1922 Gandhi said, "Finally, a real Christian!" for he had seen so much hypocrisy from nominal followers of Jesus Christ in the western world and from the British colonists in India.

As for what is the true way, have a look at the Bible: 66 books written over the space of 1,600 years by 39 different men inspired of God, and yet their testimony agrees as one. The Bible tells us that God gave the Law, prophets, and Messiah to Israel, and from there the Gospel has gone forth to all nations. There is no other book like it----not the Bhagavad Ghita, the Quran, the Granth Sahib, or any other.

The Bible contains both reliable history and prophecy (much fulfilled, and some soon to be), besides being a guide for life in this world, and revealing the means for eternal salvation in the next.

One can be a Christian in any culture because the kingdom of God is above all nations. When one turns from sin and self-reliance to the living God and receives Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour he has crossed over from death and condemnation to a life and light that will never fade, though this outward body will perish.

Buddhists seek for emptiness, but in Christ there is fullness of joy. Islam says Allah is unknowable, but Jesus Christ reconciles each born again believer to God the Father, and He calls us by name. Hindus seek to pay a karmic debt through millennia of suffering, hoping to be reincarnated into a higher life form until reaching Brahma, but Christ paid all of mankind's sin debt once for all time on Calvary's cross, and the Bible tells us that it is given to each man to die *once*, and afterwards the judgment.

I hope this helps you.

sermonindex Jan 4, 2020

Saints,

as this thread is about the Orthodox Church, I would recommend some of these links for reading and research. I have spend much time reading the earliest Christian writings and as an evangelical this has been a whole new world to me. The orthodox not only understand these writings but they have based much of their beliefs off the genuine traditions of Apostles and early church leaders.

So at the very least I find it is well worth studying them:
https://www.orthodoxroad.com/voices-from-the-past/
https://orthodoxchurchfathers.com/fathers/ (searchable early church fathers)
https://blogs.ancientfaith.com/orthodoxbridge/getting-know-church-fathers/

As the article states clearly, orthodox "are" christians or at least "can" be in his mind. So it would do well for evangelicals to be more educated on their beliefs and also see what things they value that we minimize or could impliment and understand better as evangelicals.

I also personally published 3 volumes on the early church fathers, sharing freely some of the simplicity of their writings, they are free on amazon kindle:

Early Church Father Series: St. Ignatius of Antioch
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07N3TFJBW/

Early Church Father Series: St. Polycarp of Smyrna
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1999524829/

Early Church Father Series: St. Clement of Rome
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0995892687

sermonindex Jan 4, 2020

I thoroughly disagree, Greg. It is much better to hold to the Word of God, and not the traditions of men.

The apostle Paul wrote in Acts 20:29-31:

"For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears."

These things came to pass in the first century A.D.

Many of the early church fathers taught strange things that contradict the Scriptures. If you like, I will start a new thread and clearly outline who taught what, and where it deviates from the Bible. Much research has been conducted in this area of history by reliable Christian scholars.

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savannah Jan 5, 2020

"If you like, I will start a new thread and clearly outline who taught what, and where it deviates from the Bible."

Alec,

I'd appreciate it if you would please start such a thread.

Thanks

sermonindex Jan 5, 2020

I was surprised to see this refutation of the Orthodox church on the Answers in Genesis website:

Salvation and the Sacraments
"What must I do to be saved?” This was the question the Philippian jailer asked Paul and Silas in Acts 16:30. It remains the critical question for all of mankind. Indeed, if we are given the wrong answers to this question, a catastrophic loss is the prospect we face. Strangely, in contrast to both Protestants and Catholics, the Orthodox do not seem to focus very much on this question. There are, of course, reasons for this.

Like Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy places great emphasis on the "sacraments.” Like Catholicism, Orthodoxy sees baptism as bringing about the regeneration of the person receiving the sacrament. The Orthodox typically baptize infants, but, of course, adult converts to Orthodoxy are baptized as well. In contrast to Roman Catholics, the Orthodox baptize by immersion. Immersion is carried out three times in succession, in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Unique to the Orthodox is a second sacrament applied immediately following baptism, called "chrismation.” Chrismation is performed by the priest on the newly baptized individual by anointing him or her with oil and making the sign of the cross over the various parts of the body (the forehead, eyes, nose, mouth, ears, chest, hands, and feet) of the newly baptized and saying, "The seal of the gift of the Holy Spirit, Amen.” According to Orthodox teaching, this sacrament brings about the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in the newly baptized individual. In the Orthodox view then, even if the individual being baptized is an infant, he or she is consequently a full member of the church from that point on. The oil used in the anointing of the person being baptized is called the "chrism.” According to Orthodox belief, the chrism may be administered by a priest but the chrism must have first been blessed by a bishop.

The Orthodox do not believe that faith on the part of the person being baptized is necessary in order for these sacraments to be effective. Indeed, Orthodox theologians take great pains to clarify and emphasize that the effectiveness of the sacraments is entirely independent of any faith or particular desires for God or sanctity. To quote a prominent Orthodox theologian: "In no way is the efficacy of the sacrament contingent upon the faith or moral qualifications of either celebrant [i.e., priest or bishop] or recipient.”

https://answersingenesis.org/world-religions/eastern-orthodoxy/

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HaveMercy Jan 9, 2020

Like the Roman Catholics, the Orthodox pray to Mary. The Catholics pray to "saints" and so do the Orthodox. The former bow to statues, and the latter to icons (flat images).
Religiosity is not relationship.
I have many born again Greek friends who came out of the Orthodox church once they were saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, and especially after being baptized in the Holy Spirit. They could no longer remain in a dead church.
B. H. Clendennen, a classical pentecostal preacher & founder of the School of Christ International, said that the biggest enemies of the underground church in Russia were not Russian police or government soldiers, but the Orthodox church prelates who vigorously persecuted those who preached the full Gospel.

Respectfully, as an Orthodox Christian, this is incorrect depending upon what you mean. I would also suggest that the Catholic beliefs about Mary cannot be wholly applied to the Orthodox, as there is a difference in emphasis.

Orthodox no more pray "to" Mary than you ask a friend to pray for you when you are undergoing trouble in your life. No faithful Orthodox believes Mary to be a deity.

Mary's life and submission to the will of God points to Christ, which is why the Orthodox venerate her as important. She is the one person in the whole of human history through which God chose to be Incarnate. That's kind of a big deal, and it makes sense that she would be given a lot of honor.

For this reason, at the Council of Ephesus (431) about 100 years after the legalization of Christianity in the Roman Empire, Mary was declared to be the "Theotokos," which means "Mother of God." No one believes that she is literally the mother of the Holy Trinity, but it is a statement intended to project - rather forcefully - her importance in the Incarnation of Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior.

As to the saints.

We are surrounded, are we not, by a great cloud of witnesses? If the Resurrection is real, and if the Transfiguration is to be believed, then those in Heaven are more alive than you and me! This is clear from the book of Hebrews and elsewhere, too. We have no reason to think that those in Heaven are not able to intercede for us.

Even growing up in a Bible church, I believed that my dead relatives who had strong faith were "looking down" on me somehow.

It is worth asking what the earliest Christians did, and whether they felt it was worthwhile to venerate the memory, and ask the prayers, of those who had died in great faith and as martyrs. The early days of the Christian church confirm that they did.

All of this is not to say that there are not Orthodox Christians who go astray, of course there are. The Orthodox Church is filled with imperfect people, as all churches are. However, it would be incorrect to ascribe the feelings of some who have left the Church to all Orthodox Christians.

One last thing: to your final point, about preaching the Gospel. Growing up in several different large Protestant churches, I rarely heard the Word of God actually read and talked about. Usually, the preacher would talk about what was in the Scriptures, but layer onto it a lot of personal opinion and conjecture.

The Orthodox services are filled with Scripture and in fact almost every line of the Divine Liturgy, as well as the Vespers service usually practiced on Saturday evenings, are from Scripture. Orthodox monastics read the entire Book of Psalms every week, and Orthodox bishops are expected to know it by heart before being tonsured.

Just a few things to hopefully add to this discussion. On a side note, while newly registered, I have enjoyed SermonIndex for years and have found much edifying material here!

sermonindex Jan 10, 2020

Just a few things to hopefully add to this discussion. On a side note, while newly registered, I have enjoyed SermonIndex for years and have found much edifying material here!

Thank you dear brother for your well thought out responses that you have done so gracefully.

Really people are scared mostly of what they do not understand or know.

As you alluded to Catholic belief strongly differs to some points in Orthodox older belief. Really orthodox would agree with many if not most problems modern evangelicals have with the catholic church.

Hence the orthodox cut fellowship with the catholic church a long time ago (over 1000 years ago) long before refomers left it.

sermonindex Jan 10, 2020

I have relatives in the Orthodox church.

Did you know that one of the famous Orthodox creeds refers to Jesus as "created?" Orthodox teaching speaks of one God, One Father----and that Jesus and the Holy Spirit were "created." Take a look online. I can provide links, if necessary.

sermonindex Jan 10, 2020

Here are some Orthodox prayers to "Mary":

http://saintandrewgoc.org/home/2017/8/16/prayer-to-the-ever-virgin-mary-the-theotokos

Of course, they will say, "We don't pray to Mary; we just ask her to intercede for us to her Son." That *is* prayer. There is only One Who intercedes for us to the Father---Jesus Christ the righteous Advocate.

It is impossible to pray that prayer to Mary without grieving the Holy Spirit.

sermonindex Jan 10, 2020

Did you know that one of the famous Orthodox creeds refers to Jesus as "created?" Orthodox teaching speaks of one God, One Father----and that Jesus and the Holy Spirit were "created." Take a look online. I can provide links, if necessary.

Brother,

Please share the link as I believe you are mis-informed on this one.

sermonindex Jan 11, 2020

You are correct on this point, Greg. I misread the contents of this link:

https://www.oca.org/orthodoxy/the-orthodox-faith/doctrine-scripture/the-holy-trinity/wrong-doctrines-of-the-trinity

Nevertheless, the other links and points I shared are indeed what the Orthodox church teaches which is contrary to sound doctrine:

Praying to Mary to intercede for us to Jesus - absolutely non-Biblical and an insult to God.

Praying to "saints" for help in time of need.

Regarding Scripture as merely a part of a larger (Orthodox) church tradition, and therefore giving extra-Biblical tradition as much, or even more weight than the Word of God which should always be our final arbiter.

Being saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ is *not* sufficient to get you to heaven. One must be saved through the Orthodox church and by works, according to their teachings.

That one is indwelt by the Holy Spirit at baptism and "chrismation" in the Orthodox church, regardless of whether the person has any faith in God at all.

I didn't even mention the Filioque controversy. Familiar with that? And there is so much more.