My Eyes will not spare, neither will I show mercy

This phrase is a declaration that the Lord speaks to Ezekiel multiple times. We know that out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks - so the declaration reveals something hidden in the heart of the Lord.

I encourage you to ponder - why would the Lord declare what He will NOT do, rather than simply declare what He is going to do? I believe it is because "sparing" and "mercy" ARE in His heart always! He desires mercy! Mercy is what He longs to give, mercy is His delight, mercy triumphs over judgment.

Nevertheless, to the people of Israel in Ezekiel's lifetime, God declares - "My eyes will not spare, neither will I show mercy." I believe God's longsuffering and patience has an end. This is apparent by the Lord's declarations: "the end has come" - "now is the time".

These declarations are supported by what the Lord shows Ezekiel. He shows the prophet the actions of the people and as if to make sure the prophet gets the picture, the Lord asks him - "Have you seen what the people are doing?" Then the Lord summarizes the people's actions to support why His eyes will not spare, neither will He show mercy.

Ezekiel 9:9 - 9 καὶ εἶπεν πρός με Ἀδικία τοῦ οἴκου Ισραηλ καὶ Ιουδα μεμεγάλυνται σφόδρα σφόδρα (LXX)
Translation - "and said to me the unrighteousness of the house of Israel and Judah has become magnified, exceedingly, exceedingly"

The Lord is the same, yesterday, today and forever. The Lord knows those who are His, and let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from "UNRIGHTEOUSNESS". All will be condemned who received not the love of the truth so as to be saved, but thought well of UNRIGHTEOUSNESS"

The other reason that the Lord gives to support His decision to not spare with His eyes, neither show mercy is the "lawlessness" of the people.

Ezekiel 8:17 - καὶ εἶπεν πρός με Ἑώρακας, υἱὲ ἀνθρώπου; μὴ μικρὰ τῷ οἴκῳ Ιουδα τοῦ ποιεῖν τὰς ἀνομίας, ἃς πεποιήκασιν ὧδε; διότι ἔπλησαν τὴν γῆν ἀνομίας, καὶ ἰδοὺ αὐτοὶ ὡς μυκτηρίζοντες
Translation: - "and said to me "Have you seen, son of man?" Is it a little thing to the House of Judah to do lawlessness as they have done here?" Because they filled the land with lawlessness and behold these are scorners"

The Lord follows this description of the actions and attitude of the people with the declaration - "I also will deal with them in wrath; My eye will not spare, neither will I show mercy."

There is an end to God's desire to spare and to show mercy. There is a day of the Lord coming for all who refuse to love the truth and take pleasure in unrighteousness. All who work lawlessness will be condemned.

As I read the phrase over and over throughout these chapters in Ezekiel, I believe I was hearing God's sorrow for His people. In declaring what He was not going to do, I believe He was revealing what He longed to do, but could not because of the persistent rebellion of the people.

I do believe and affirm that God will have mercy upon whom He has mercy, and that He will harden whom He will harden. I also believe that He desires mercy, but there is an end to His longsuffering.

Romans 2:
But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God "will repay each person according to what they have done.” 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who refuse to be persuaded by the truth and have been persuaded by unrighteousness, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.

God will have mercy upon whom He has mercy, and He will harden whom He hardens. His eye will not spare, neither will He show mercy to those who refuse to be persuaded by the truth and choose instead to be persuaded by unrighteousness.

mak

I felt prompted to add my thoughts upon why the Lord declares multiple times - "the end has come" (perfect tense in the Greek).

What time had reached its conclusion or culmination? I believe the "acceptable time" had come to its end.
"Now is the acceptable time, today is the day of salvation, today if you hear His voice do not harden your heart."

There is an acceptable year of the Lord, a time for mercy and forgiveness, before the day of the Lord comes when He will render to everyone according to their deeds.

We are even to consider the longsuffering of the Lord to be salvation, because the Lord is not willing that any should perish. However, the acceptable time for sparing and mercy will come to an end. Then the day of the Lord will be revealed, a day of wrath and judgment that men have been storing up to themselves. A day of judgments so severe that men will long for death that does not come. A day when vials of wrath will be poured out upon the earth and no one repents, because the acceptable time to repent and receive mercy has ended and there is nothing left for them but the severity of God, because they have rejected mercy and squandered away the acceptable time.

mak

Mak,

You said:

What time had reached its conclusion or culmination? I believe the "acceptable time" had come to its end.
"Now is the acceptable time, today is the day of salvation, today if you hear His voice do not harden your heart."

There is an acceptable year of the Lord, a time for mercy and forgiveness, before the day of the Lord comes when He will render to everyone according to their deeds.

2 Cor. 5:18-6:3 ”“
Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.
For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
We then, as workers together with Him also plead with you not to receive the grace of God in vain.
for He says,
"AT THE ACCEPTABLE TIME I LISTENED TO YOU, AND ON THE DAY OF SALVATION I HELPED YOU."
Behold, now is "THE ACCEPTABLE TIME," behold, now is "THE DAY OF SALVATION "””
giving no cause for offense in anything, so that the ministry will not be discredited,

It seems to me that Paul was saying that the glorious day of salvation has dawned and he was begging people to be reconciled to God and not to take God's grace in vain.
He did not say that the acceptable time will end.

The acceptable time and the day of salvation could not commence until after the death and resurrection of Christ. It began in the 1st century AD and has stretched on to the present 21st century.

Our faith must stand on the sure word of God and not on human opinion.

Can you give scripture that clearly says it will end at the end of this age and will not stretch into the ages of eternity to come?

Consider these scripture:

Isa. 9:6-7 ”“
For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;
And the government will rest on His shoulders;
And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
There will be NO END to the increase of His government or of peace……,

Note: "NO END”.

Isa. 54:8 ”“
In an outburst of anger I hid My face from you for a moment,
But with everlasting lovingkindness I will have compassion on you,"
Says the LORD your Redeemer.

Isa. 57:16-19 ”“
For I will not contend forever,
Nor will I always be angry;
For the spirit would grow faint before Me,
And the breath of those whom I have made
Because of the iniquity of his unjust gain I was angry and struck him;
I hid My face and was angry,
And he went on turning away, in the way of his heart.
I have seen his ways, but I will heal him;
I will lead him and restore comfort to him and to his mourners,
Creating the praise of the lips.
Peace, peace to him who is far and to him who is near,"
Says the LORD, "and I will heal him."

ADD
===

"acceptable time” has also been translated as "favourable time”.

HELPS Word-studies:
1184 dektós (an adjective derived from 1209/dexomai) ”“ properly, what is received favorably (acceptable), describing what is welcomed because pleasing.

Ps. 103:17 (NKJV) ”“
But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting On those who fear Him, And His righteousness to children’s children,

Blessings

Hello Jade,

Yes, I offer these scriptures for your consideration.

All of these scriptures have this Greek word συντέλεια - meaning - a completion, a consummation, an end.

These references are all taken from the words of our Lord
Matthew 13:39
Matthew 13:40
Matthew 13:49

They are all found in the context of our Lord's explanation of the parable of the wheat and the tares.

He answered, "The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the people of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.

40 "As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of His kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.

The year of the Lord's favor is now, today is the day of salvation, now is the acceptable time.

This is what our Lord Jesus knew and declared in the synagogue at Capernaum:
"The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind,to set the oppressed free, 19 to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor....

Notice that our Lord did not complete the entire quote from Isaiah. He stopped short of quoting the whole prophecy. Have you ever noticed this? Jesus stopped before quoting - "and the day of vengeance of our God."

Why did Jesus stop where He did? I believe it is because of what He said next, with the eyes of everyone upon Him - "Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing."
Jesus knew that the day of vengeance was not "today" and was not being fulfilled in their hearing.

Jesus knew that His first coming was not to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. He knew that the Father had set a day to judge the world, a day of vengeance, but that day was in the future, not today.

There is a "completion of the age". Our Lord associated the completion of the age with the separation of the wicked out of His kingdom and their being thrown into the lake of fire.

What do you associate the "completion of the age" with?

mak

Hi Mak,

PARABLE OF WHEAT AND TARES

Christ came to destroy the works of the devil (1 Jn. 3:38), not men. He came not to condemn the world but that the world through Him might be saved (John 3:17). He is Savior of the world (John 4:42, 1 Jn. 4:14). He destroys the wicked old man in Adam to bring in the righteous new man in Himself. In Adam ALL die. In Christ, ALL are made alive.
When the works of the devil are destroyed, and all are made anew in Christ……… "Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.”

Scripture speaks of "Christ the first fruits” (1 Cor. 15:23) and the church "a kind of first fruits” (James 1:18, Rev. 14:4).

If the church is called "first fruits” shouldn’t there be the rest of the harvest?

And if the church, the first fruits are being gathered in this present age, when would the rest of the harvest be gathered if not in the ages of eternity to come?

This is what our Lord Jesus knew and declared in the synagogue at Capernaum:
"The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind,to set the oppressed free, 19 to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor....

Notice that our Lord did not complete the entire quote from Isaiah. He stopped short of quoting the whole prophecy. Have you ever noticed this? Jesus stopped before quoting - "and the day of vengeance of our God."

Why did Jesus stop where He did?

I don’t know why. Scripture didn’t say.

But scripture says this:

Isa. 35:3-10 ”“
Encourage the exhausted, and strengthen the feeble.
Say to those with anxious heart,
"Take courage, fear not.
BEHOLD, YOUR GOD WILL COME WITH VENGEANCE;
THE RECOMPENSE OF GOD WILL COME,
BUT HE WILL SAVE YOU.”
THEN the eyes of the blind will be opened
And the ears of the deaf will be unstopped.
Then the lame will leap like a deer,
And the tongue of the mute will shout for joy.
For waters will break forth in the wilderness
And streams in the Arabah.
The scorched land will become a pool
And the thirsty ground springs of water;
In the haunt of jackals, its resting place,
Grass becomes reeds and rushes.
A highway will be there, a roadway,
And it will be called the Highway of Holiness.
The unclean will not travel on it,
But it will be for him who walks that way,
And fools will not wander on it.
No lion will be there,
Nor will any vicious beast go up on it;
These will not be found there.
But the redeemed will walk there,
And the ransomed of the LORD will return
And come with joyful shouting to Zion,
With everlasting joy upon their heads.
They will find gladness and joy,
And sorrow and sighing will flee away.

What do you associate the "completion of the age" with?

The end of this age will bring an end to everything that is unrighteous to God and all things will be made new in Christ and the ages of eternity will begin in which God show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus (Eph. 2:7).

Dear Jade,

I can see how you are seeking to harmonize the passages about Christ work and the fruits that follow from it.

It would be helpful to me to know your thoughts on the Second Death. I assume you have somehow come to some understanding of what happens to those who experience the second death.

Revelation 21:8
But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

The Second Death occurs after the resurrection of the dead - Revelation 20:12-14
And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Can you explain your own understanding of the process you believe happens after the second death.

Jade, I hope this is in time for you to address this question as well. In the first passage in Revelation 21, the restoration of all things appears to have taken place. The New Heaven is present, the New Jerusalem is present, and in contrast with this - the distinction between those cast into the lake of fire and those who are present in the New Heaven is set forth.

In your understanding of how all things have been fully reconciled and every work of the devil destroyed. How do you understand the presence of the separation in the introduction of the New Heaven and the New Jerusalem.

mak

A sobering scripture to consider from Our Lord:

Notice the words "everlasting" and "eternal" in verse 46. Obviously the acts of injustice toward the Savior were done on earth as it mentions earthly needs. The consequences are everlasting.

Mat 25:41  Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 
Mat 25:42  For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 
Mat 25:43  I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 
Mat 25:44  Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 
Mat 25:45  Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 
Mat 25:46  And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. 

As a young person this passage gripped my heart and soul with what I now recognize as the fear of the Lord which is the beginning of wisdom:

Mar 9:43  And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: 
Mar 9:44  Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 
Mar 9:45  And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: 
Mar 9:46  Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 
Mar 9:47  And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: 
Mar 9:48  Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 

I have only heard of one person physically carrying out in a literal way the suggestion of Jesus here, but Jesus is making a case for the never ending nature of the punishment of those who give in to temptation.

The case that I heard of came from Foxe's book of Martyrs I believe. The Christians were being hauled into town square demanding that they either sign a decree denying Christ or they would be burned alive publicly. This man signed the decree and went away free, but all night his conscience tormented him! "How could I have denied my Lord who bought me?"... The next day as the proceedings continued, he stood before the crowd and stated: "cursed be this hand that would sign such a thing denying my precious Savior who died to save me... (something along those lines). He then went over to the blazing fire and stuck that hand into the fire to watch it burn in front of everyone. They then put the rest of him into the fire. He died in the flames but then met The Lord who had paid the penalty for his sins.

SO MANY scriptures come to mind when I meditate on this subject.

Rev 14:9  And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 
Rev 14:10  The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 
Rev 14:11  And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. 

SO MANY and SO MANY MORE ....

Rev 22:10  And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand. 
Rev 22:11  He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. 
Rev 22:12  And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 
Rev 22:13  I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 
Rev 22:14  Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 
Rev 22:15  For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. 

While I can understand the desire to see God's mercy and forgiveness in the way you see it Jade, I sincerely believe your efforts are misguided and unfounded.

You have alleged that God does not destroy wicked "men", but the wickedness IN men so that they may ultimately be saved. You believe that His wrath is poured out upon their works, not for their destruction but for their salvation.

Paul warned believers about this very matter.

Ephesians 5
For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them

Notice that God's wrath does not come upon the sins, but upon "the sons" of disobedience.

Furthermore in II Thessalonians 1, Paul wrote that the wrath of God comes upon men, not simply their sins

since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power

The grammar is clear, that vengeance is upon "those" (men) who do not know God. They (these men who do not know God) will be punished with everlasting destruction.

You are in danger of turning destruction into salvation so that you can work out every man being saved. This is a serious twisting of scripture and Paul warns that when men do this, they do so to their own harm.

If you twist the meaning of everlasting destruction into a means through which men are ultimately saved, then what
can everlasting salvation mean?

Your motive may be good and sincere, but your method is spurious and dangerous.

mak

Hey Mak- just wanted to check on how you define "destruction.”

TK

You have alleged that God does not destroy wicked "men", but the wickedness IN men so that they may ultimately be saved

Have I??

You are in danger of turning destruction into salvation so that you can work out every man being saved. This is a serious twisting of scripture and Paul warns that when men do this, they do so to their own harm.

If you twist the meaning of everlasting destruction into a means through which men are ultimately saved, then what
can everlasting salvation mean?

I don’t know what you are talking about.

While I can understand the desire to see God's mercy and forgiveness in the way you see it Jade, I sincerely believe your efforts are misguided and unfounded……Your motive may be good and sincere, but your method is spurious and dangerous.

We will all stand before the judgment seat of God and each one of us will give an account of himself to God.

The Second Death occurs after the resurrection of the dead - Revelation 20:12-14………… In the first passage in Revelation 21, the restoration of all things appears to have taken place. The New Heaven is present, the New Jerusalem is present, and in contrast with this - the distinction between those cast into the lake of fire and those who are present in the New Heaven is set forth………… In your understanding of how all things have been fully reconciled and every work of the devil destroyed. How do you understand the presence of the separation in the introduction of the New Heaven and the New Jerusalem.

I don’t think we can really understand eternity while still living in time. So, speaking in time and in human terms --

The works of the devil have already been destroyed at the cross (Col. 2:15 -principalities and powers disarmed; Rom. 6:6, Gal. 2:20 ”“ fallen old man crucified; Gal. 6:14 ”“ world crucified.)

All authority has been given to the Lord Jesus in heaven and on earth (Matt. 28:18).

It is time to bring in the harvest.

John 4:35 ”“
Behold, I say to you, lift up your eyes and look on the fields, that they are white for harvest.

The first fruits (the church) are being gathered in this present age.

Time ends and eternity begins. (Yet time and eternity co-exist even now!).

The resurrection of the dead takes place (Rev. 20:12-15).

If anyone’s name is not written in the book of life (comment: belonging to Christ), he is thrown into the lake of fire, the second death.

Comment:
How great a number this must be! They include all who have not heard the gospel throughout time.

New Jerusalem has been made ready as a bride adorned for her husband, having the glory of God (Rev. 21:2,11).

Then,

A loud voice from the throne says:
"Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them, AND HE WILL WIPE AWAY EVERY TEAR FROM THEIR EYES; AND THERE WILL NO LONGER BE ANY DEATH; THERE WILL NO LONGER BE ANY MOURNING, OR CRYING, OR PAIN; the first things have passed away." ”“ Rev. 21:3-4

Comment:
Who are the ones who will be mourning, crying and in pain? Surely not New Jerusalem. They can only be the vast number in the lake of fire, the second death.
Note: "AND THERE WILL NO LONGER BE ANY DEATH”
1 Cor. 15:26 ”“ The last enemy that will be abolished is death.

And He who sits on the throne said:
"Behold, I am making all things new." And He said, "Write, for these words are faithful and true" (Rev. 21:5).

Comment:
The new heaven and new earth and New Jerusalem have all come into being. What else is not yet made new? The countless number of people in the lake of fire who are still of the old creation in Adam.

Rev. 21:6-7 ”“
Then He said to me, "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost. He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son.”

Comment:
Surely this is the "second chance” for those in the lake of fire! Actually it is just the first chance for the billions who had never heard the gospel before.

Rev. 21:8 ”“
"But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."

Comment:
Yes. There is still free choice. Will anyone in the terrible lake of fire reject the offer of the water of life and not repent and eagerly run back to the splendour of the Father’s house like the prodigal son?

Scripture answers:

Isa. 66:23 ”“
And it shall be from new moon to new moon
And from sabbath to sabbath,
ALL MANKIND WILL COME TO BOW DOWN BEFORE ME,” says the LORD.

The Lord said to Abraham: "………I will bless you …… And you shall be a blessing …… And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed"(Gen. 12:2,3).

So must the church, the New Jerusalem, be (re: Gen. 22:18, Gal. 3:16, Gal. 3:29).
And, so she will be. And so you must be

Rev. 21:23-24 ”“
And the city has no need of the sun or of the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God has illumined it, and its lamp is the Lamb. The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it.

Rev. 22:1-2 ”“
Then he showed me a river of the water of life, clear as crystal, coming from the throne of God and of the Lamb, in the middle of its street. On either side of the river was the tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit every month; AND THE LEAVES OF THE TREE WERE FOR THE HEALING OF THE NATIONS.

Scripture says:
"But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more” (Rom. 5:20).

The Lord says: "For I, the LORD, do not change” (Mal. 3:6).

Lam. 3:21-23 ”“
This I recall to my mind,
Therefore I have hope.
The LORD'S lovingkindnesses indeed never cease,
For His compassions never fail.
They are new every morning;
Great is Your faithfulness.

v. 31-33 ”“
For the Lord will not reject forever,
For if He causes grief,
Then He will have compassion
According to His abundant lovingkindness.
For He does not afflict willingly
Or grieve the sons of men.

God’s last words in the Bible are words of grace, words of kindness, words of comfort, words of love:

Rev. 22:17 ”“
And the Spirit and the bride say, "Come!”
And let him who hears say, "Come!”
And let him who thirsts come.
Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.

v.21 ”“
The grace of the Lord Jesus be with ALL. Amen.

To God our Father and our Lord Jesus Christ be the glory and the dominion forever!

Hi Todd,

The word Paul uses in II Thessalonians is

ólethros (from ollymi/"destroy") ”“ properly, ruination with its full, destructive results (LS). 3639 /ólethros ("ruination") however does not imply "extinction" (annihilation). Rather it emphasizes the consequent loss that goes with the complete "undoing."

This definition is copied from Bible Hub, a site that is a good source for such questions.

Mak

Thx Mak.

Is this part:// "ólethros ("ruination") however does not imply "extinction" (annihilation). Rather it emphasizes the consequent loss that goes with the complete "undoing”// someone’s interpretation or is that an absolute fact regarding the Greek word? The reason I ask is that I have read or heard somewhere that this word can mean either ruination or total annihilation. I am not a Greek expert.

Todd,

Bible Hub is a free website with an excellent Greek and Hebrew content.

There is an interlinear section where the strong number is posted above the Greek word, which is posted above the English word.

By clicking on the Strong number, you are given definitions taken from scholars, along with verses that the word also appears in.

I have found it a very helpful resource when attempting to ascertain the basic meaning.

I am not a Greek expert either, but I am grateful for the many men who devoted their lives to provide us detailed information that we may not otherwise have access to. I have been fortunate to make good use of many of these resources for a number of years, and I am so grateful for the help they have been to me.

mak

Jade, thank you for your candid acknowledgment

The only rational, logical conclusion to your position is that those who have been cast into the lake of fire will receive another opportunity to be saved.

At least your view has come into the light to be examined.

Please consider the ramifications of this position. This removes salvation by grace through faith.

This removes any eternal consequence for unbelief.

This removes the truth of eternal punishment.

This proposes a doctrine similar to purgatory - that suffering the lake of fire after death is really only for the purpose of temporal punishment leading to the ultimate salvation of the soul.

I do not hesitate to call this heretical - a teaching that has arisen out of your own personal choice.

mak

Mak,

The only rational, logical conclusion to your position is that those who have been cast into the lake of fire will receive another opportunity to be saved.

At least your view has come into the light to be examined.

Please consider the ramifications of this position. This removes salvation by grace through faith.

This removes any eternal consequence for unbelief.

Salvation out of the lake of fire by grace through faith STANDS now and forever.

Your position is that grace through faith is withdrawn after this present age.

I am challenging that position.

This removes the truth of eternal punishment.

If you mean the truth of "eternal torment”, that is challenged.

This proposes a doctrine similar to purgatory - that suffering the lake of fire after death is really only for the purpose of temporal punishment leading to the ultimate salvation of the soul.

I am not interested in the doctrine of purgatory, whatever it is.

The suffering in the lake of fire is the terrible FACT of separation from God.

The difference between us is that I believe in the greatness of God’s love and compassion and will and power to save all men, but you don’t

I do not hesitate to call this heretical - a teaching that has arisen out of your own personal choice.

Heretics, of course, are those who disagree with you. And of course, only your own theology is truth.

This discussion is no longer profitable as it has degenerated into personal attacks.

Blessings

Dear Jade,

This statement is disingenuous at best: you wrote

Heretics, of course, are those who disagree with you. And of course, only your own theology is truth.

I am certain that you are already very aware that your interpretation is unique, although that in itself does not make it wrong. You show confidence, which I admire to put forth your views on this forum; in fact, you voluntarily joined this thread and interjected your own thoughts.

Please do not take offense at the term "heretical". The basic meaning of heresy is "to choose". I do not hesitate to call the teaching that there is a second opportunity to be saved by grace through faith after being thrown into the lake of fire - "heretical." - Heresy means a "choice", and you have made the choice to interpret certain passages according to your personal understanding and assimilate them together.

It is already well understood, by yourself and others, that thousands of men and women of God, over hundreds of years, have studied the same passages you quote and interpreted them differently. Certainly this fact has not escaped you. That is why I admire your confidence to share openly. I am certainly not the first to have called this teaching heretical, many men and women more qualified than I would not hesitate to do so still.

This is a public forum, where discussion may lead to disagreement. You are free to believe what you wrote - "The difference between us is that I believe in the greatness of God’s love and compassion and will and power to save all men, but you don’t"

But the open minded reader who has followed this thread can look back and see that what originally moved me to post was the glimpse into God's heart to spare and to show mercy.

As you have said, we will all stand before the Lord to give account for ourselves, nothing is hidden from the eyes of Him to whom we must give account. Like Paul, I can say that I am not aware of anything against myself, but that does not make me innocent, it is the Lord who judges me. But knowing that He is the judge with the ability and authority to judge righteously, it matters very little to me to be criticized by lesser authority. The support of friends does not prove one right, and the opposition of anyone contrary does not prove one wrong.

I thank you for the opportunity to discuss these topics on the forum. I will leave you to the compassion and mercy of God, but I do so aware of His own warning about adding to or taking away from what He has spoken.

If you are correct, I have nothing to fear anyway.

mak