UntoBabes
Oct 1, 2020
Yes, unfortunately this was a sad situation. I think the bigger issue, however, is the fact that many of the previous scandals surrounding Mr. Zacharias were swept under the rug through the Non-Disclosure Agreement with Lori Anne Thompson back in 2017. Also, the issues of him stretching the truth about his academic credentials wasn't given much journalistic coverage. There were few articles here and there but not enough to hold him accountable.
And then of course the lies he had told about studying under John Polkinghorne in England. By the time, Zacharias got to Cambridge, Polkinghorne had already retired. Another dishonest claim was that he was asked to be the speaker at his graduation - Ontario Bible College on April 1972. That never happened. Even some of the "arguments" he used in his apologetics encounter with students at universities are exaggerated. After some time of researching, I had caught him lying a few times about the Dating of the Book of Daniel and then talking about how David Berlinski is the world's leading quantum physicist - when really Berlinski is someone who just propagates stuff for the Discovery Institute (an organization for teaching intelligent design in schools).
It's very easy to look intelligent in front of university students when given a platform, and it's easy for people to just take the presenter's word for it without researching themselves. My issue is why are we lying for God in order to preach the Gospel? It is quite personal for me when it came to the Ravi Zacharias situation because I almost lost my faith over this. I looked up to this man to not just be an intelligent spokesman for Christianity, but an example of how to live as a Christian in a dark world. After finding out about this stuff a few years ago, I wondered, "Everything that Ravi preaches, is it true? Is he a charlatan? Do any of his arguments have merit? How do I know Christianity is true if this man is not telling me the truth about it?" The last few years I was pretty disappointed over this. Even after he died and I watched his funeral service, I had my disappointment because many will lift him up on a pedestal and remain in a sort of deception over their "hero" so to speak.
I know now not to look to man in public ministry, but looking to the Centrality of Christ as my all in all.
David - adulterer
Gideon- coward
Paul- murderer
Elijah- suicidal
Joseph- vengeful
Calvin- murderer
Luther- anti-Semitic
Etc,etc,etc...
"Let he who is sin free cast the first stone...”
Is this report trustworthy? Can CT be trusted? I have no clue. Total disbelief.
Also the report is too detailed in the allegations. Which is unnecessary. Hard to read it fully. Read only some parts of it. Considering this is a Christian website, they should have avoided such details.
To me this is truly humbling. Shows how much of God's grace is needed in my life to preserve a pure testimony for the Lord. I see myself in such a sinful flesh. It is better to be an unknown brother in Christ with a pure testimony than to have a popular ministry but losing ones testimony.
First of all, it has to be established, IF these allegations are true after all.
If the alledged victims waited until after his death and are not after money or compensation as they say, then this gives the matter even more weight.
I was never impressed with RZM I must say. I am not a great fan of debates. The gospel must be proclaimed and demonstrated in God's power through weak human vessels.
Interlectual debates should not be an end in themselves, it they do not aim at saving souls.
If the allegations are true, than the great apologist owes an apology he will never be able to deliver.
We have seen many a great leader falling in recent times. I think it is not just bearing to the fact that they are weak men just as us, but also that they have so much honor, power and wealth and publicity. All that our Lord denounced and avoided like rotten fish.
When you embrace what the Lord openly and in deed denounced, you are in trouble.
I have watched discernment and apologetics ministries over the years and I am dissappointed with most of them. Are they accountable to a body of believers? Can the be corrected when they are an error?
I wonder how great the vexation of a soul must be to live a such double live. You either repent, or become insane or kill your conscience with a hot iron.
The Lord is in the process of clearing his own house before he can judge the world. This is part of an end-time preparation. I think there is even more to come.
Matthew 13:40-42
King James Version
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
False accusations will become more frequent, too. True servants of Christ will be refined by these trials.
I myself had been reviled and accused by fellow Christians many times and I can say I can praise God for the lessons I was allowed to learn. Praise God for the weaknesses they truly pointed out. I forgive all of them, regardless if they apologized or not.
I'd rather be a plain unknown country preacher, who guides a few souls to heaven and keeps a clean record than be a prominent leader who falls.
Lord, keep us humble, let us learn from these things and take them to heart! Let us pray for leaders!
False accusations will become more frequent, too. True servants of Christ will be refined by these trials.
James 4:11-12
New International Version
11 Brothers and sisters, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against a brother or sister[a] or judges them speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it. 12 There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you””who are you to judge your neighbor?
Brethren,
We know that failures come in God's servants, we must look no father then our very selves to see imperfectness. Of course those who are leaders are held in much higher standard before the people but even grace must be offered to them who are called to lead.
The enemy is the accuser of the brethren and through online slander is able to destroy much. These things are unproven yet we disown an entire life of ministry. May we be slow to do such things brothers and sisters, and pray that God's name is not dishonoured. We all have a part to play to hinder the blasphemy of God's Name before the gentiles.
I'd rather be a plain unknown country preacher, who guides a few souls to heaven and keeps a clean record than be a prominent leader who falls.
This is my understanding as well and that is what I posted here. The danger of popularity is very clear. To be honest, there is a desire in me to have a great ministry for the Lord. I believe many believers have this desire as well. This is a great warning for me to be content with an unknown ministry but with a pure testimony for the Lord.
We know that failures come in God's servants, we must look no father then our very selves to see imperfectness. Of course those who are leaders are held in much higher standard before the people but even grace must be offered to them who are called to lead.
Amen brother. I have zero judgmental thoughts about the concerned person here. I still believe God genuinely used him and his ministry. But it is a great reminder for me to look into my own flesh. How weak I am and how much I need God's grace.
We can look into David's sin and take it as an excuse for our sins. Or we can also look into David's sin and humble ourself saying, if a man after God's own heart can fall like that, how much am I suseptable to falling? I need his grace far more than anyone else on this earth.
Here is a good thought from brother Israel Wayne (taken from his facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/israel.wayne ):
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Regarding accusations against public figures (espcially Christian leaders)...it’s tricky. Some people automatically believe any accusations they read, and some automatically go into denial. Neither are appropriate.
I’m hesitant to automatically believe because I know, from experience, people lie about leaders.
Just last year a hateful, spiteful, evil relative of mine got angry with someone else in our family and decided to get revenge by slandering me (since I’m somewhat of a public figure). They contacted some strategic persons they thought could ruin me and told a ton of outlandish lies.
Thankfully, no one they contacted believed any of it, and I had backup from some of my family who was willing to explain the situation. It was a spite crime.
I know if certain bloggers had picked up the "story” many would have believed the slander because some of accusations can’t be falsifiied, and some people just want to believe the worst, especially about conservative Christians.
So it’s tricky. I always want to "believe the victim,” but I know some people just lie and slander and aren’t truly victims. Not everyone who tells a story is telling the truth.
As the person being slandered, all you can do is fall on the mercy of God. It’s a helpless feeling to know you can’t (in some cases) do anything to preserve your reputation. I hate that. You can work your whole life to represent God well and then have it taken away in a moment because someone wants to destroy you. With social media, lies can spread like wildfire.
A couple of years ago, a lady claimed I said something I didn’t in a keynote message at a conference (she claimed I said God forbids women from homeschooling!). She posted it in a large private FB group she moderates and banned me from the being able to join. Most of the women in the group believed her lie and made vows to never buy or read any of my books. I couldn’t respond or defend myself! The audio recording was public and anyone could have fact checked it, but most people don’t bother. They just believe the slander.
So, there are real victims, and we need to avoid being in denial about the potential of leaders to live a double life. But after my post yesterday, I just wanted to give the flip side as well. Sometimes the true victim is the one who is being slandered by a vile person for spiteful reasons. We need wisdom and discernment. And God’s grace to help us if we are ever the ones falsely accused.
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[To be honest, there is a desire in me to have a great ministry for the Lord. I believe many believers have this desire as well.]
So true of me, too.
Brother Greg said:
Amen Brother!Brethren,
We know that failures come in God's servants, we must look no farther then our very selves to see imperfectness.
I'd like to invite all of you on SI to my church. My pastor, Ed Ulterer, doesn't commit adultery every day. He only does so, two or three times a week. And he said 1 Cor. 6:9 & 10 do not apply to him because he's a church leader. He said he's in the category of verse 11.
1 Cor. 6
9 & 10 You know that wicked people will not inherit the kingdom of God, don’t you? Stop deceiving yourselves! Those who indulge in sexual sin, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexuals, thieves, greedy people, drunks, slanderers, and robbers will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Verse 11 That is what some of you were! But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of our Lord Jesus the Messiahc and by the Spirit of our God.
Hope to see you at church this Sunday. Worship services start 10:30am. Men who have wives,and girlfriends on the side (as long as nobody knows about it of course),are welcome. Pastor Ed will be preaching on Solomon's 700 wives and 300 concubines.
I do not know about the allegations as detailed in this report but do know that the devil will use anybody to spread lies/slander against God's people. It does happen in family's as well. Among the worse is a narcistic person who is a skilled manipulator who knows how to turn people against each other.
It is no wonder that God lists lies as an abomination.
Sandra Miller
Amen sister,
the truth is that Jesus was maligned by false witnesses so if we follow the Lord we should expect the same. Accusers are not always true they can be false in their words and thoughts towards the righteous to try and destroy them.
Here is the interim statement by RZIMs own investigation
https://www.rzim.org/read/rzim-updates/update-from-rzim-board-allegations-against-ravi-zacharias
I think it is far better to be falsely accused and maligned by men and never vindicated in the world but later received by God into glory than to receive undue credit and flattery only to be found out later.
Why has Ravi not taken the last moments of his life to come clear?
Let us learn some lesson from it. Pray for the victims and family of Ravi.
Brothers and sisters, though I don't comment anymore just want to take this chance to say how much I am blessed by you all here.
On the topic at hand though, I want to ask a different question? I have never understood (especially once I started to read my own Bible closer) whether the path that RZIM was taking was really beneficial for the world? I have always thought that RZIM should serve the church rather than the world. My feeling on this has been conflicted for sometime. I never understood what the end purpose is to seek out secular avenues to argue about spiritual things.
I would be so grateful if someone could comment what the scriptural purpose is seeking apologetics for the secular world. Is there a biblical guidance for this? (please use scripture, if you are so inclined to do so, in its context. Honestly, this I am saying as a reminder not as a rebuke as it is to the contrary usually here).
And, to those saints I met in Cleveland (I think that was the last sermonindex meeting and the most gut wrenching and heart felt prayers I heard, I just want to say thank you for letting me be part of that).
God bless you,
in His grace
-sam
I would be so grateful if someone could comment what the scriptural purpose is seeking apologetics for the secular world. Is there a biblical guidance for this? (please use scripture, if you are so inclined to do so, in its context. Honestly, this I am saying as a reminder not as a rebuke as it is to the contrary usually here).
I am into apologetics as well. I have personally sought after answers for the questions to defend my Christian faith. I also believe in teaching the young people in my Church about apologetics and how they can defend their faith in School, college and office.
Here is scriptural proof about the need for apologetics.
1 Peter 3:15 - But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and be ready always to give an answer to every man who asketh you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear.
If we are commanded to give an answer to every man who has questions on our faith then why not give an answer to those outside the Church (unbelievers)?
I personally use apologetics only inside the context of the Church.
Very sad to hear these interim findings.
I remind myself that any of us is capable of grievous sin, blatant disobedience and active ministry at the same time. We often overlook our sinful ways as falling under some false exception to God’s word.
Frankly, it scares me. I am no better than Ravi Z., no less prone to inner rationalizations of my ungodly deeds and words, and have the same merit as a man before a holy God as Ravi.
I can’t mitigate him. I can do nothing about him. But I hope that I learn from his error. I pray that I obey God and be found in Him, pleasing to Him in Christ. If I should die and anyone here be aware, kindly ask almighty God to have mercy on my loved ones that my sins not be the subject of a sweeping investigation nor fodder for public curiosity.
People spend way too much time preaching and not enough time mortifying their members which are their flesh.
The teacher brings himself under stricter judgment from god and massive attacks of the devils to cause the preacher to be disqualified as Paul says,
I bring my body into subjection.
Crusafieing the flesh and its passions are only done properly through gods sanctifying spirit, it's an inner change wrought through our faith given us.
We are sanctified the same way we are justified, by faith in the powerful workings of God's spirit, it's all about casting away doubts and that rise up in our minds that says, GOD CAN'T DO THAT.
Reckon your selfs dead unto sin, and fully, fully , fully alive unto God in Jesus Christ. When you believe that You will see the power of god in your life to make you holy as the flesh starts to learn its place like the pitty full dog it is , hating even the inergarment stained by the flesh , learn to hate flesh.
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