One angle of how bad theology plays itself out.

I just have to share this because this is one an isolated case. I don't think it is anyway. This is more of a PSA

I have a friend of some 22 years who swears to me that Trump will be serve a 2nd term as President. She is very certain that this will happen. I asked her for a time frame and she says 6 months. I asked her why does she beleieve so strongly about this. 2 reasons.

1. Prophecies about Trump being re elected. ( Well, we know those prophecies were and are false but she wants them to be true)

2. She believes Biden will go to jail not long after he is in office. I think it has to do with dealing in China.

I told her that if Biden goes to jail then Kamala Harris becomes Prez and after her it is Nancy Pelosi.

She is so confident in this that she actually bet me $100 and the deadline is her birthday which is late February.

While this is easy money it won't bring me satisfaction until she becomes broken, admits the many prophecies were false and learns not to trust so called prophets today as a result. I don't care about the money. I am only taking the bet to reach her soul.

p.s. She is also stressed out about the mark of the beast and is pushing the commentary about not taking the vaccine because it may be a part of the mark of the beast. I told her that I don't think the mark of the beast is so obvious as she thinks.

John

Hi Deadn,
Your picking a very worse case scenario there but her reasons for expecting a second term are suspect.Their is better reasoning than that available.

Also to flip it on its head what makes you so sure he wont do a second term?

On Timlines
I copied and pasted this from another post i just did as it fits the bill

"The 20th is a deadline.Its a deadline similar to Lazarus's deadline .Lazarus's deadline was actually a real deadline and on the the day of his deadline(the 20th for this discussion)he physically died.Mary and Martha and all the mourners had no choice of course but to follow the deadline(of the 20th).God did not have to follow man's deadline and Jesus tarried 4 days.Enough time for the man to be dead and buried and decomposing .Then Jesus tells us the reason for the delay was for the Glory of God.God's Timeline is not mans timeline."

And " I want my 4 days that Jesus took to ressurect"

urs staff
p.s tell me what she spends her winnings on ?lol

I wish this were a worse case scenario. How many other people are hanging their faith on these prophecies? Or are they just now dismissing them and moving on with no thought that these 'prophets' should be marked and avoided? I bet that is the case more than believing the prophecies so much.

This quote is more of a SQUIRREL to me then anything. I understand what it is saying but it is also a a road to nowhere. It applies more to OT prophecies and Revelation since. I also think it is a subtle attempt to push prophecy forward where no actual prophecy exists i.e. using the Lazarus passage with Trump.

It is a fail all the way around for me. It also sows seeds for those who tend to hang their hat on those who prophesy and become led by that more than the Word itself.

"The 20th is a deadline.Its a deadline similar to Lazarus's deadline .Lazarus's deadline was actually a real deadline and on the the day of his deadline(the 20th for this discussion)he physically died.Mary and Martha and all the mourners had no choice of course but to follow the deadline(of the 20th).God did not have to follow man's deadline and Jesus tarried 4 days.Enough time for the man to be dead and buried and decomposing .Then Jesus tells us the reason for the delay was for the Glory of God.God's Timeline is not mans timeline."

And " I want my 4 days that Jesus took to ressurect"

Deuteronomy 13:1-5 says "If there arises among you a prophet or a dreamer of dreams, and he gives you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or the wonder comes to pass, of which he spoke to you, saying, ‘Let us go after other gods’””which you have not known””‘and let us serve them,’ you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams, for the LORD your God is testing you to know whether you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. You shall walk after the LORD your God and fear Him, and keep His commandments and obey His voice; you shall serve Him and hold fast to Him. But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he has spoken in order to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt and redeemed you from the house of bondage, to entice you from the way in which the LORD your God commanded you to walk. So you shall put away the evil from your midst.

Deuteronomy 18:17-22 says "And the LORD said to me: What they have spoken is good. I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brethren, and will put My words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them all that I command Him. And it shall be that whoever will not hear My words, which He speaks in My name, I will require it of him. But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in My name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.’ And if you say in your heart, ‘How shall we know the word which the LORD has not spoken?’”” when a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.

There you have it. If they do not proclaim the same God that we do (many prosperity Gospel preachers do not) or they prophesy wrong, they are false.

Hi Deadn
I really do understand your concerns and dont believe in pushing a prophecy down the road is correct.

Assuming you believe Prophecy is for today which I think their is ample scripture to show that it is then we have to listen to the Prophecy and weigh it up.
I have said on numerous occasions their is a problem in the so called prophetic movement but that doesnt mean we throw out the baby with the bath water.The baby being true prophecy.

My qoute on Lazarus is scripturally well put together and makes sense.Why the rush to judgement we havent even hit the 20th much less the 24th .I didnt use the Lazarus passage with Trump ,I used it with Resurection .Its in the resurection that God gets the glory not man.Everything has to look completely lost or God will not be fully glorified.
Cant we at least see will Jesus come to the funeral or will Moses part the Red Sea?

Another point on the election prophecies is that already the prophets who were presumptive,the prophets who lacked faith ,the prophets who were along for the ride ,the prophets who lied and the prophets who wanted to save their own "ministries" have apologized and backtracked.These have already have been seen for what and where they are.

One assumption you are making that I dont think is correct is that people who listen to prophecy dont know the scripture like people who dont listen to prophecy.

What makes you think Trump wont get a second term again?

urs staff

I used to believe there was prophesy today but in time I came to a conclusion that there isn't. Maybe I should say there are no prophets today. The ones we see today tend to be after their own glory and the more popular ones are very ambiguious in their prophetic. I think of Bethal church as an example of this.

I have also learned that when you want to believe in modern prophesy you open the door to leaning on it more than on the Word or you will mix the Word with it but subtle find yourself looking more toward the modern prophetic than the Word itself because the Word becomes not enough.

I want to lean toward someone who gives a modern prophecy but is not a prophet but I don't see evidence of that taking place BUT I do see evidence of people who give words of wisdom to someone else while not operating in a gifting of a wisdom prophet so to speak.

Another point on the election prophecies is that already the prophets who were presumptive,the prophets who lacked faith ,the prophets who were along for the ride ,the prophets who lied and the prophets who wanted to save their own "ministries" have apologized and backtracked.These have already have been seen for what and where they are.

One assumption you are making that I dont think is correct is that people who listen to prophecy dont know the scripture like people who dont listen to prophecy.

THe prophets are false. These prophets, if they were repentant, would take themselves out of ministry and get under a pastor for a time and possibly not come back into ministry. This won't happen because my theory is there is to much power and attention to be held there and they don't want to lose it. It is another reason why I dismiss this people. We are talking about spiritual things. Do you want a false prophet to be repentant and yet teach you spiritual things? And you will trust that? UH NOT ME

What makes you think Trump wont get a second term again?

Common sense dictates Trump won't get a 2nd term. He is s a disgraced President. The only people holding onto Trump are those who are invested into Conspiracy theories such as Qanon and those who don't want a Democrat in office and are holden to Trump because he is the Republican candidate. I am GOP and Trump is an embarrassment to the GOP but I have my foot more in the kingdom of God then I do the hope of politics

Also, if Trump goes to trial, after Biden takes office, it could be possible that Trump would not be able to hold any public office. I say Trump will be hold up in his bunker while playing golf and dodging possible trials over whatever things he may have done that we are not aware of.

Hi
I will just address a few things some I agree with.

The list of prophets should take themselves out of ministry and stop making excuses agreed.
On whether prophecy exists or better put should exist the scripture is clear.
Prophecy is for exhortation ,consolation and edification and without it these areas can not be filled with anything else.

On Trump being disgraced
I couldnt disagree more.

On the one side you have a group of people media and politicians who did this
1 Spied on a political campaign(100 times worse than watergate)
2Introduced a hoax (now accepted by all)Russia collusion story bought and paid for by the Clinton foundation

3Introduced an impeachment about a call to Ukraine to cover their own tracks with Hunter and Joe Biden
4 Introduced the heaviest Censorship in living memory as you know
5
Manipulated polls to make it look like both the 2016 and 2020 elections were done and dusted and both were clearly not
6
Committed Election Fraud on a scale never even thought of before.All of this fraud evidence was given in the open and under affidavit to state legislatures.
7 The democrats have had a Militia who fund raised for them called BLM on the streets burning and murdering all year,causing over 1 billion in damage

They have lied ,cheated and in my opinion committed treason but yet I am meant to believe them this time round.If their was nothing wrong with the election it would have been in Joe Bidens interest to do a full proper audit of the states involved but like the thief running away from the police they did not .They tried to stop and intimidate anyone who wanted open elections.

On a personal note ,you really need to hear the evidence given under oath to the state legislatures.I am not being nasty here or trying to be but you sound like you didnt follow it closely and got soundbytes from Mainstream media who are far bigger false prophets than all false prophets that have ever been.
Donald Trump is not at all perfect but he has done nothing disgraceful and will go down at least as the greatest one term president we have seen and if he is vindicated he will go down as the greatest president in our lifetimes.
I think we have to be fair ,he was Pro Life ,Pro Israel ,Pro Christian and stood up to the most evil opposition the US has seen in 160 years.If any Christian cannot see the evil spiritual darkness behind this group and think this is conspiracy theory they have a far bigger problem than knowing scripture or going to Church on Sunday,

urs staff

How is peace a disgrace?
North Korea was the biggest threat to US security per outgoing (pre-Trump) administration and what was thought impossible was accomplished and seen by all - a US President crossing over the DMZ by invitation and signing a Historic Peace Accord significantly reducing militarization/nuclear threat of the Korean Peninsula effectively creating a more peaceful world.

Additionally the Peace treaties between Israel and several of her neighbors including, but not limited to, Saudi Arabia where now we see a normalization of their relationship which puts a positive regional pressure to pursue a similar peace with Israel on other Islamic countries.
Remind us please, how long have USA politicians and Presidents sought these very Peace deals but failed to deliver?

Likewise, where is ISIS, ALQEDA, TALIBAN, MS13, etc... ?

Remind us again please, how many wars President Trump started?

Remind us again please, how long it’s been since we had a POTUS that didn’t start a war?

Remind us again please, who was the last POTUS (before Trump) who fought openly for religious freedom?

Remind us again please, why has it taken Washington so long to take care of our Veterans (before Trump) ?

Remind us again please, why is it that the worlds most evil and perverse people, promoting godlessness in all forms under the guise of unity, have aligned themselves against President Donald John Trump... even to the extent of demonic principalities (church of Satan, disciples of lucifer, witches association) holding public service in multiple cities across the IS and Canada to cast spells and hexes upon him so he wouldn’t get elected?

Remind us again please, how you sir have such a refined discernment yet have left out these things from your compilation?

If money and bets is what your after I’ll give you $100 to go earnestly before the Lord, seeking His face and His word soaked in prayer and bring here, where you chose to take a stand, for us to see what He reveals to you on each of these subjects...

I dare you to ~

Hi JFW,
This is the small list of the good things he has done.
The only disgraceful thing is the way he has been treated and persecuted for doing good.
urs staff

Could it be that all these people who prophesied that Trump would be re-elected were correct but were off on the timing? Perhaps Trump will be re-elected to a second term but it will happen not in the 2020 election but further down the road, perhaps 2024. These prophets just assumed it would be an immediate second term.

Hi TrueWitness,
I thought of that and indeed some are using it as an excuse but it has to be this time.
Their will be no glory for God in 2024 and the criminals would have got away with the crime which remains election fraud,corruption and censorship.
It would also veer off the course God has set in the western world with 2016,Brexit and supreme court judges.
Britian would be left alone without a true ally,nation state policies changed in the US and the supreme court would be packed.It certainly could happen in the natural that a president gets a second term with a gap ,its happened before.
The problem with this that a win in 2024 would be a catalyst for nothing.A 2020 win at this late stage would be a catalyst for reivival in the Church and would answer alot of the divisions in the Church on gifts and the use of gifts etc.
As I have said regardless of what happens on the 20th I want my "4 days" that Jesus took to resurrect Lazarus so I can wait and see him perform a miracle.
But you are right God's Timeline is not Man's Timeline and their can be a difference to what we understand to when God moves,its just not the 2024 unless God allows because of the disruption Donald Trump to do 3 terms .This I would say definitely could happen,
urs staff

JWF

I want to remind you that the topic here is NOT what Trump has done in his 4 years of office. NO, the topic is prophecy and his re election. Prophesy for the many who prophesied that he will be re elected to a 2nd term. Is that happening? Big fat NO.

My refined discernment from bible study. Knowing the Word and being able to use it to discern what is true and what is false along with illumination of the Holy Spirit.

There is a lot of seduction in the church and there are too many of us falling for seducing spirits and doctrines of demons that look like light.

If money and bets is what your after I’ll give you $100 to go earnestly before the Lord, seeking His face and His word soaked in prayer and bring here, where you chose to take a stand, for us to see what He reveals to you on each of these subjects...

NO NO NO

She is the one who wanted to bet me 3x. She kept saying 'I will bet you'. So I decided ok put up or shut up. On my part when I win this bet I may ask her to take the money and use it to pay for a counselor because she is not thinking rightly at all.

Could it be that all these people who prophesied that Trump would be re-elected were correct but were off on the timing? Perhaps Trump will be re-elected to a second term but it will happen not in the 2020 election but further down the road, perhaps 2024. These prophets just assumed it would be an immediate second term.

In other words a prophet of God can get it almost right and still be ok?

Also this is a hypothetical that doesn't even exist. It is just wishful thinking. There is a good chance that if Trump goes on some trial that he may not be able to hold any public office. If that happens then it would really blow any prophesies straight to hell.

I am passionate on this because there is such itching ears of people wanting to hear from God and Satan is ready and willing to deceive. THere are con men and hucksters just waiting to gain an audience of Christians and have them give them fame and attention.

I used to be a pentecostal and I saw so much of this stuff take people, seduce people, lie to people.

Another point on the election prophecies is that already the prophets who were presumptive,the prophets who lacked faith ,the prophets who were along for the ride ,the prophets who lied and the prophets who wanted to save their own "ministries" have apologized and backtracked.These have already have been seen for what and where they are.

One assumption you are making that I dont think is correct is that people who listen to prophecy dont know the scripture like people who dont listen to prophecy

NO, I don't make that assumption. A false prophet can know scripture, and twist it for their own gain. Rick Warren, though not a self professed prophet, does this. A person can know scripture but still use it deceitfully. What we as Christians needs to do is practice more discernment with the Word.

Not that I want to draw attention to myself, but I really think the solution to the problem is found in the Scriptures that I posted from Deuteronomy 13 and 18.

Listen, If prophesy has ceased , then every "prophesy" that is made will innately fail one of those two tests. They will either be proclaiming a god that is NOT the God of the Bible or they will get their prophesies (and subsequent interpretations) incorrect. If they fail either of those tests, then they are false.

If prophesy has not ceased, then true, God-given prophesies will pass both tests, and false prophesies will fail one of them.

The genuis behind these commandments that God gave is that they force us to both examine WHAT the prophets are saying and WHOM they proclaim is saying them, based upon their theology. It's fool-proof really.

I don't care if you are charismatic or a total cessationist--these two tests are invaluable for examining EVERY SINGLE person proclaiming to be a prophet.

------------
DEADn,

I can see you're as staight-forward as I am about things; however, I would caution you from one stubborn man to another: don't tell your friend to pay for counseling. I promise she won't appreciate that now or later. Definitely not what I would want said to me if I were in her situation.

A possible suggestion: if she really does give you $100 dollars, buy her a John MacArthur Study Bible and the documentaries American Gospel part 1 and American Gospel part 2. It'll be money well spent and definitely give her some insight.

Hi Deadn
Yeah but their is a problem here the only way you could discern what has been going on in this election is by looking at the evidence presented and by knowing that a Leopard never changes his spots.
The democrats who had a militia on the streets that are communist called BLM all year burning and killing and you didnt discern the evil behind them.So your bible study didnt work.
Judging on the rhetoric you are saying it is very clear to me that you are just saying the same stuff main stream media are saying with no discernment at all.The evil people,very evil people that are saying trials and this and that are the exact same people that are censoring all Christian voices at the moment and unchecked their will be no Sermonindex.

How can a group of poeple like who support Abortion,Are Antisemtic ,gay agenda and who have told evil lies about Russia,Ukraine,Brett Kavanaugh,Amy Barret just to mention a few things to be trusted or believed about anything?
These poeple are atheistic media like CNN,Msnbc and the entire democratic party and some of the gop and we are expected to believe anything that comes out of their mouths?

"My refined discernment from bible study. Knowing the Word and being able to use it to discern what is true and what is false along with illumination of the Holy Spirit."

urs staff

Hi Havok,
Just one thing on your post .
Their is no test for an interpetation of a prophecy unless God said this is the interpretation and they give the interpretation as also a intrepretation from God.
Some poeple have given a prophecy and then gave an opinion on what it meant or what they thought it meant.

"Young men will have visions and old mean will dream dreams"
You could also argue that dreams and visions which are definitely for both Testaments are not prophecy as in wide awake spoken prophecy

urs staff

I cannot recount a place in Scripture in which the prophet gave an incorrect assement of his own prophesy, save once--and that man, disobeying the Word of the Lord paid with his life for his grave error.

You sir stated that he was a disgraced president... did you not?
I’m simply taking you to task to qualify that statement-

As for you "bet” ... honestly I’m as concerned for your salvation/mental state as you are for your "friend” as you clearly believe she is deceived and yet have in no way expressed a brotherly love by intercession or recruiting us to join in prayer for her but instead are pompously bragging about your "rightness” in relation to her being crazy ... that is not the response of a born again Christian- that is the flesh. You even continue to berate her behind her back saying- when I win I’ll tell her to use it on therapy??
How callous is the spirit in you ??? Have you no fear before the Lord- remember "As a man soweth so shall he also reap”

Btw I do hope and pray you take the advice offered and I have been and will continue to pray the Lord softens your heart 🙏🏻

Hi Havok,
But their was one ,thats the point.
Also Agabus gave a prophecy over Paul but did not give an interpretation of what to do with it.The Christians at Caesarea wrongly intrepreted the dream as a warning to Paul to get on his bike.

So wrong intrepretations can happen even when the word is sure.
In the situation we are in it is easy to see how a prophecy can be intrepreted wrongly as regards to a timeline.
For instance Trump will serve two terms in a row and the assumption is made that jan 20th which is a firm date in mans calendar is the be all and end all but may not be in Gods.
I would even say that if God gave me a prophecy that Trump would win 2020 election that I would not even think that anything other than a Trump inauguration would happen on the 20th .
urs staff