False Prophets and Empty Oracles

Mine heart within me is broken because of the prophets;

All my bones shake

I am like a drunken man, and like a man whom wine hath overcome, because of the Lord, and because of the words of his holiness.

For the land is full of adulterers; for because of swearing the land mourneth; the pleasant places of the wilderness are dried up, and their course is evil, and their force is not right.

For both prophet and priest are profane; yea, in my house have I found their wickedness, saith the Lord.

Wherefore their way shall be unto them as slippery ways in the darkness: they shall be driven on, and fall therein: for I will bring evil upon them, even the year of their visitation, saith the Lord.

And I have seen folly in the prophets of Samaria; they prophesied in Baal, and caused my people Israel to err.

I have seen also in the prophets of Jerusalem an horrible thing: they commit adultery, and walk in lies: they strengthen also the hands of evildoers, that none doth return from his wickedness; they are all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah.

Therefore thus saith the Lord of hosts concerning the prophets; Behold, I will feed them with wormwood, and make them drink the water of gall: for from the prophets of Jerusalem is profaneness gone forth into all the land.

Thus saith the Lord of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the Lord.

They say still unto them that despise me, The Lord hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you.

For who hath stood in the counsel of the Lord, and hath perceived and heard his word? who hath marked his word, and heard it?

Behold, a whirlwind of the Lord is gone forth in fury, even a grievous whirlwind: it shall fall grievously upon the head of the wicked.

The anger of the Lord shall not return, until he have executed, and till he have performed the thoughts of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider it perfectly.

I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran: I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied.

But if they had stood in my counsel, and had caused my people to hear my words, then they should have turned them from their evil way, and from the evil of their doings.

Am I a God at hand, saith the Lord, and not a God afar off?

Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the Lord. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the Lord.

I have heard what the prophets said, that prophesy lies in my name, saying, I have dreamed, I have dreamed.

How long shall this be in the heart of the prophets that prophesy lies? yea, they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart;

Which think to cause my people to forget my name by their dreams which they tell every man to his neighbour, as their fathers have forgotten my name for Baal.

The prophet that hath a dream, let him tell a dream; and he that hath my word, let him speak my word faithfully. What is the chaff to the wheat? saith the Lord.

Is not my word like as a fire? saith the Lord; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?

Therefore, behold, I am against the prophets, saith the Lord, that steal my words every one from his neighbour.

Behold, I am against the prophets, saith the Lord, that use their tongues, and say, He saith.

Behold, I am against them that prophesy false dreams, saith the Lord, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness; yet I sent them not, nor commanded them: therefore they shall not profit this people at all, saith the Lord.

And when this people, or the prophet, or a priest, shall ask thee, saying, What is the burden of the Lord? thou shalt then say unto them, What burden? I will even forsake you, saith the Lord.

And as for the prophet, and the priest, and the people, that shall say, The burden of the Lord, I will even punish that man and his house.

Thus shall ye say every one to his neighbour, and every one to his brother, What hath the Lord answered? and, What hath the Lord spoken?

And the burden of the Lord shall ye mention no more: for every man's word shall be his burden; for ye have perverted the words of the living God, of the Lord of hosts our God.

Thus shalt thou say to the prophet, What hath the Lord answered thee? and, What hath the Lord spoken?

But since ye say, The burden of the Lord; therefore thus saith the Lord; Because ye say this word, The burden of the Lord, and I have sent unto you, saying, Ye shall not say, The burden of the Lord;

Therefore, behold, I, even I, will utterly forget you, and I will forsake you, and the city that I gave you and your fathers, and cast you out of my presence:

And I will bring an everlasting reproach upon you, and a perpetual shame, which shall not be forgotten.

Jeremiah 23:9-40

"God’s prophets are all windbags who don’t really speak for him." Jeremiah 5:13 NLT

"Her prophets are light and treacherous persons: her priests have polluted the sanctuary, they have done violence to the law." Zephaniah 3:4

It is the grief of my heart to see these false prophets misrepresenting Jesus and leading many people into hell faster than they would if they were drunkards or addicts. What terrifies me is that some of the godliest men in the world today can't see them for what they are, or they compromise with them. Why in the world do solid churches sing Bethel music, for example? The blasphemy coming from Bethel is so bad I can't repeat it here. One well known minister called Kenneth Copeland a "brother".

I have no ministry, no following. God has not used me to bring multitudes to Him. Why can I see it when they can't?

It's not just Bethel, but Hillsong, Elevation and others. For many, the song itself is not bad, so they allow it - through the connection and leading people to such ministries is always a terrifying thing.

When teaching, singing or discussing - I always think upon,

It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and he were cast into the sea than that he should cause one of these little ones to sin. (Luke 17:2)

Hi Kerygma,
So do you think Prophecy is for today?
urs staff

Hi Drifter

Yeah this is difficult and fustrating when you see something and others cant.
For me the difficuly was when I looked at Donald Trumps election in 2016 it was as clear a miracle from God as you could see.On the evening of nov 7th main stream media were saying that Hillary Clinton had a 95% chance of being president.Hillary Clinton was Pro Abortion,Antisemitic and for open borders the thing God hates and a few hours later Donald Trump was elected and reversed policies on all those things.This time round the same main stream media who lied about Election Fraud ,Russia Collusion and Ukraine impeachment as well as hating Christians and promoted heavy Censorship are being supported by some Christians even on SI against Donald Trump for various erroneous, false or miscellaneous reasons.
Like David they found themselves lining up with the Philistines with the right people on the wrong side.
Its really hard to understand how Christians believed these liars and couldnt see through it,urs staff

"I have no ministry, no following. God has not used me to bring multitudes to Him. Why can I see it when they can't"

"God’s prophets are all windbags who don’t really speak for him." Jeremiah 5:13 NLT

THAT IS A LIE STRAIGHT FROM THE DEVIL'S MOUTH! No offense to you sir. This is explicitly evident why these watered down versions are so DANGEROUS!!!

Jer 5:13  And the prophets shall become wind, and the word is not in them: thus shall it be done unto them. KJV

Do you see "God's prophets" there? To plainly state that "God's prophets are all windbags", is blasphemous.

Sir, I beg you, trash that NLT and get a TRUE version.

Jer 23:21  I have not sent the prophets, and they have run, I have not spoken unto them, and they have prophesied. 
Jer 23:22  But””if they stood in My counsel, Then they cause My people to hear My words, And they turn them back from their evil way, And from the evil of their doings.

Do you see the difference between the two? HIS prophets and those who prophesy on their own? Oh how I pray you do. I pray you do. I pray you do.

murrcolr - excellent. Thank you.

Lahry, I almost exclusively use the KJV. I had to look up that reference from the NLT online. It obviously does not mean ALL prophets, just like the KJV text of that same passage does not mean all either. I tend to shy away from dynamic translations and stick to literal, word-for-word translations.

Of course I believe there are prophets today. Men like Leonard Ravenhill and A. W. Tozer quite obviously were. People like Bill Johnson and Kenneth Copeland are full of hot air. (Pretty much all of the leadership of the New Apostolic Reformation and the Word of Faith movement are wolves in sheep's clothing.) And in the Old Testament era, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel etc were true prophets; they were surrounded by false prophets (who always had nothing but encouraging words and never warned the people of coming judgment.)

Hi Kerygma. That's just my concern, that people will sing a song by Bethel or Elevation or whatever, and wonder who wrote it, look it up, and get caught up in NAR craziness. NAR preaches another Jesus.

staff - clarify. What is your understanding of prophecy for today?

Hi Kerygma,
Do you think the gifts outlined in the epistles are for the New Testament Church which would include today and including prophecy,
your staff

Staff,

I have had enough sword fights in my day. If you want me to engage you in this type of discussion, define, what your understanding of prophecy is, with Scriptural backing, and I will respond to that. Once we get this out of the way - we can tackle "as outlined in the Epistles"

Hi Kerygma,
You asked a question and I clarified,
I thought my answer was what you wanted to know.
Is prophecy for today?as in the New Testament Church?
urs staff

No, you referred to the Epistles. What is your hermeneutic (interpretation) regarding "prophecy? The word is clearly used in several ways and different contexts; 2 Peter 1:20 (and several other times in certain epistles) has a different usage is than Rom 12:6, 1 Cor 12:10, 1 Cor 13:2 and 1 Cor 14:22. Further, prophecy in 1 Cor 14:1 is also used in verses 3, 4, 5, 24, 31 and 39 but different senses than the first group. It's a pretty straightforward question: define your understanding of Prophecy in a specific context, not just say the epistles.

As I said, I have had many sword fights and do not get wrapped up in strawman arguments. Maybe I can ask the question for you "Hey Kerygma - "do you hold to Cessationism and deny the Spirit is at work in the NT church?" And that would give you an answer "no, the Spirit is alive and active within the Church."

hi Kerygama,
I dont hold to cessationism and I think the new testament Church cant operate properly without the gifts.
I believe their cannot be unity in the body without the orderly working of the gifts.We may have harmony but that is not unity.

On Apostles we dont have them in the Church today as in the form of the 12 Apostles or Paul who had Authority.

On Prophets:
Jesus is the best example of a Prophet in the New Testament,he was still a Prophet after he rose from the grave and before ascended.Other examples of Prophets that need to be looked at carefully are the "two witnesses" who prophesy to saved and unsaved and they prophesy about a coming world political leader as a warning to the world.
On Prophecy:
I think its purpose is to exhort ,console and edify but it can come from anyone in the body.
Also we have to remember Prophets carried out other functions other than prophesy in Acts.
On Pastors:
I think they are clearly in wrong Authority through wrong position in the modern Church and its been institutionalized through bible colleges and seminaries .
On Naming:
Hand in Hand wrong Authority is perpetuated by calling people by their gifts as a "title" is form of "structure" so for instance in todays Church we see Christians being called "Pastor Michael" or "Pastor Jack" and on youtube which is a warning bell straightaway we have people calling themselves "Prophet x" or "Apostle y".
Paul said "I Paul an Apostle" ,he didnt say "I am Apostle Paul".Hence by calling yourself or others calling you by your gift you are creating a wrong structure and in turn wrong authority.
urs staff

Hi staff,

I will reply beside some pasted sections of your reply.

"I think the new testament Church cant operate properly without the gifts.
I believe their cannot be unity in the body without the orderly working of the gifts.We may have harmony but that is not unity"

- well said, and I agree. There is definitely a difference between harmony and unity and there is a lack of Spirit movement within the church. I do feel however many churches are filled with people 'faking' the gifts and abusing gifts. We have a responsibility to test the spirits.

"On Apostles we dont have them in the Church today as in the form of the 12 Apostles or Paul who had Authority."

- Agree

"On Prophets:
Jesus is the best example of a Prophet in the New Testament,he was still a Prophet after he rose from the grave and before ascended".

- I hold to Jesus holding office as Prophet, Priest and King.

Other examples of Prophets that need to be looked at carefully are the "two witnesses" who prophesy to saved and unsaved and they prophesy about a coming world political leader as a warning to the world.

- With the two witnesses and certain eschatological views, there are varying opinions. But I would agree with you regarding the two witnesses.

"On Prophecy:
I think its purpose is to exhort ,console and edify but it can come from anyone in the body.

- Yes, I would agree with you and with your original question, in this regard. Yes! Prophets are in operation in the NT church. I do not believe in the Patricia King movement, or some self professed prophets coming out of certain renegade movements that speak oracles and not coming to pass.

On Pastors:
I think they are clearly in wrong Authority through wrong position in the modern Church and its been institutionalized through bible colleges and seminaries .

- Agree and disagree, kind of. I understand where the term pastor comes from, and the significance of an undersheperd. However, for one man to run the show, and to be honest paid for it as if it was a career choice is wrong. Saying this, I do believe in the plurality of elders, and elders are called to oversee the church. However, I would not call someone elder so and so, just their name or brother. You mentioned authority - I feel some people who are called pastor - regardless if we agree to it or not clearly are not qualified. Again, I am not against structure as the Scriptures clearly define there are roles, and overseers which not everyone is called to - but we need to be careful with how we use such terms.

Blessings,

Hi Kerygama,
This is such a problem and you see all Churches real and fake thrown into the same category because of this.

Also their is delibrate fake and unintentional fake.Some people are genuinely motivated .

"I do feel however many churches are filled with people 'faking' the gifts and abusing gifts. We have a responsibility to test the spirits. "

God showed me this directly regarding the two witnesses and this is why this scripture is so precise in recording the amount of kids.

The Kids mocked Elisha "go up you bald head, go up"!
They were saying you are not as good as Elijah ,you have no hair the symbol of power and you cant go up like Elijah or you cant be translated like Elijah.

Elisha's answer is Prophetic
Two Bears who are hairy brought judgement on 42 Children.
Elisha's answer was oh yes my Spirit has the same power as Elijah's has .I have the same Spirit Elijah has.

The two bears are types of the two witnesses who bring judgement on the earth for 42 months.What the scripture is prophetically saying is that the Spirit of Elijah will bring judgemnt on the earth for 42 months .We also see the mantle of Elijah here as the two bears are hairy like Elijahs mantle.
Also this explains why the King at Elishas death said "the chariots of Israel and his horsemen".Their is no reason to say this except he was acknowleding Elisha as having the same attributes as Elijah in regards translation.
urs staff

2 Kings 2:23-24
King James Version

23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.

24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.

I think the church today moves on revelation. Jesus mentioned to Peter how he had received that message by revelation. Hidden or other meanings can be gleaned from the word in due season by the Holy Spirit. We don't understand everything perfectly all at once. It was to be metered out to increase our faith.

Looking at the four horsemen of the apocalypse recently I saw that I had been looking at it wrong. The white horse rider had a bow. I missed "the bow" before. In Genesis I saw where God had a bow, a rainbow. Well so does the false religion of Revelation. He wants to be like God, to be worshiped. He has to sit in the temple to be worshiped.

Then there are the other riders. I previously thought that they were just the way things would come to a conclusion. Well after much meditation I began to see that these are the fake tools that will be used to force all into the New World Order. First will come Covid. Get the shot or else. No buying or selling for you. Depopulation through disease like Covid. Drought caused by weather weapons. Food supplies manipulated. Submit to the NWO or else. Then lastly if you don't submit war will come to your door.

The Church was to receive revelations all along to increase the faith. The Holy Spirit will provide the revelation.

"People like Bill Johnson and Kenneth Copeland are full of hot air. (Pretty much all of the New Apostolic Reformation leadership and the Word of Faith movement are wolves in sheep's clothing.) "

Agree!

I also do not lean towards using the NLT. I would add to the list the NIV after '84 or the KJV. The reason being is understanding the languages and have found the NASB (1977) to be an excellent translation. I actually went from KJV to ESV, and through and after my studies stuck with the 77 NASB. The 95 is OK too - I just prefer the 77.