Shoud Christians fight for abortion laws?

I might be attacked for my views here but I am sharing my thought process here expecting to validate my thoughts against strong logical argument. Please do not get emotional about this subject as I believe abortion is very emotional.

I do not believe any country enforcing laws to restrict abortion is even feasible on this earth, due to the widespread liberal thinking. Even the USA cannot have federal or state laws to restrict abortion. I am a prolife as any Christian has to be, but that does not mean I can force or want to force any country to have pro-life laws. This means we are actually forcing people to follow prolife policies because our God wants us to be.

1. I believe God hates abortion but how does God want Christians to fight this evil? Is that by influencing politicians to make laws that will bind or force people to avoid abortion? I do not believe it is right. We all think of the millions of lives we save by forcing people to stop abortion. But what prevents this unregenerated person who is forced to have an unwanted baby from abusing the baby after birth? The baby would have better died in the womb rather than being born and abused all their life. In the USA recently a well-respected Baptist Pastor was abusing a CHild from birth and using her as a concubine. When the Church in the USA has degraded to this level where the Pastors are child molesters, what authority do we have to say others should not abort their CHildren because our God told so? Should we not be correcting our own mess first?

So my first point is, in a democratic country like USA it is impossible to have laws against social evils like Abortion or LGBTQ. Eventually, at some stage, the conservative Christians who believe that laws in the USA should be according to Bible will be numbered out. Democracy is a place where people decided how they should be treated and what is best for them. So it is always the majority that dictates.

2. What is God's ordained way for a Christian to fight any social evil? The answer is by being a witness.

Phil 2:14 Do everything without complaining or arguing, 15so that you may be blameless and pure, children of God without fault in a crooked and perverse generation, in which you shine as lights in the world

This is God's will for us to be a light in the perverse world. God does not want Christians to put their trust on politicians to be the light to enforce laws that fight this perverse generation. God's desire for the disciples of Christ to be a Light and thereby fight the spirit of perversion in this generation.

The Church has failed this purpose. How many Christians have raised their Children to be light in their generation? *** How many Christians even in this forum, can say that their Children were pure virgins when they got married? If the answer is no then what is the use of bringing laws in USA to fight abortion when your own children are having loose sex outside marriage thereby enocuraigng abortion? ***

Is abortion the only evil today that God hates? What about divorce? Does not our God say he hates divorce (Mal 2:16)? Still the divorce rate in Churches is as much as it is outside Churches? ***How many of these Church going christians who fight against abortion are willing to fight against laws to stop divorce? *** They are not because they themselves have failed marriages and are divorced.

I am not saying to fight against abortion laws a Christian should also be fighting against divorce laws or other social evils. I am saying do not give priority of one over the other. *** I am saying be a light first and live a clear and clean married life with your spouse and raise your Children first to be Godly in this generation *** These are the things that Church should first fight for than against abortion laws. I believe Church has failed here.

***The proof that so many elderly posters in this forum who consider themselves as Strong Christians have divorced and failed to raise Godly offerings, shows their wasted personal testimony. But they will all fight against abortion as that is the only thing in their eyes that God hates!***

I think there is a great deal of self-pleasing religious feel that such Christians get by fighting for prolife laws, hence they keep doing it.

Perhaps the most frequent and insistent attack from Satan to which we are vulnerable is accusation.

We have all heard Satan's lying, hateful voice in our consciences.

But now he seems to post in this forum.

A couple of things:

I understand your point. There are countries where voting is not allowed. Things like abortion are not fought at the national or state level, they are fought in homes and communities. But that isn't America. We CAN vote. We CAN legislatively duke it out at the state and national level. So why not? Does it hurt anything to push for the laws while we simultaneously preach the Gospel? No it does not. There are far too many brothers and sisters in Christ down through the ages who have affected incredibly positive changes in their societies just by loving and following Christ for me to say we should abandon that hope now.

That being said, there are a few things you have said that I believe need to be addressed.

1) "But what prevents this unregenerated person who is forced to have an unwanted baby from abusing the baby after birth?" You are mistaken here. General revelation and the conscience that God has given all men and women come into operation here. Just because an unregenerate mother considered abortion, but did not do it does not mean that child will have a terrible life. Common grace, motherly instincts, and morality revealed through the conscience can make even a wordly woman a motherly woman. On this same vein, to say that if a child is abused that they are useless in this world is a flaw to the greatest degree. By your logic, I should have been aborted along with my sisters for the horrible childhood we all had. Yet, 3 of us are believers and impact our communities well. 2 of us are missionaries and preach the Gospel across the globe.

2) To call abortion and homosexuality a "social evil" is a misnomer, designed to deflect the actual offense of te crime. Those things are evil. God hates those activites. So should you. However, by your logic, Shouldn't I simply avoid from stopping a man from raping a woman and instead just preach the Gospel to him while he's in the act? I think the Bible is clear on this. I am commanded to defend the innocent--and I will do that with every godly means in my considerably small power.

3). "The Church has failed." Please, sree, tell me by what means are you coming to this conclusion? Have the gates of hell been prevailing against the Church? You ask very pointed questions, but you yourself do not know the answer to them. How many are divorced on this forum? How many of the members children were virgins upon marriage? You don't know. You assume you know, but you don't. And to lay that kind of accusation against all of us with hasty generalizations is dangerous.

Yes, christians should absolutely fight for pro life laws. Just because a child might be abused after he or she is born is not an excuse to murder him or her in the womb.

I believe civil law should line up as closely as possible with God's law. Homosexuality, for example, should be illegal. I am not progressive or politically correct, nor will I ever be.

Did you know the founders of the gay rights movement supported pedophilia? And many people want what they call being a "Minor Attracted Person" (pedophile) to be legal. 100 years ago it was unthinkable that homosexuality would ever be seen as normal or acceptable behavior; look how far society has been degraded. Now someone is a "bigot" for not approving the sodomite lifestyle. Mark my words, as society gets worse we will see acceptance of abominations like pedophilia. It's a slippery slope.

The line is drawn in the sand. God's laws do not change, and christians should be unbending and unyielding to the world's demands.

I understand your point. There are countries where voting is not allowed. Things like abortion are not fought at the national or state level, they are fought in homes and communities. But that isn't America. We CAN vote. We CAN legislatively duke it out at the state and national level. So why not? Does it hurt anything to push for the laws while we simultaneously preach the Gospel?

I appreciate your answer here. Yes, there is nothing wrong in voting for someone who supports prolife. My point is to put our hope on that as if it is the only hope. Voting for prolife is not even a God ordained way, it is a privilege that the USA gives to their citizen to choose the way the country should run. If the majority have chosen to run otherwise then there is nothing we can do about it.

For example, in 2016 the majority chose a prolife candidate. But now the elected person is not a prolife, which means the majority have chosen differently. But the question is should the Christians keep fighting for it? I don't believe that is right.

On this same vein, to say that if a child is abused that they are useless in this world is a flaw to the greatest degree. By your logic, I should have been aborted along with my sisters for the horrible childhood we all had. Yet, 3 of us are believers and impact our communities well. 2 of us are missionaries and preach the Gospel across the globe.

No that is not my point. My point is the Child being abused all their life or the child dying by suffering continuous abuse. We have so many such cases. There are so many cases in which mothers have killed their children in a cruel way.

The point is, our hope should be to work on regenerating men through the Gospel not to chain them through state laws. These things are not a foolproof way of preserving or protecting the children.

And to lay that kind of accusation against all of us with hasty generalizations is dangerous.

My point is not to accuse people, my point is are we using abortion laws as a replacement for Christian testimony. Because the Church in the USA has failed to be a pure testimony, which is evident by the number of divorces in the Churches in the USA, lack of young people gripped by the gospel, etc. The Christians in America are focusing on such laws to ease their conscience.

In a country with such a high number of CHurches and a Christian population, there is no need for laws to chain people from sin, rather the spread of the Gospel.

Hi Sree,
The overwhelming evidence is that the democrats helped by censorship from big tech and lies by main stream media used various methods to fraud and were beaten comfortably .

"For example, in 2016 the majority chose a prolife candidate. But now the elected person is not a prolife, which means the majority have chosen differently"

urs staff

Now someone is a "bigot" for not approving the sodomite lifestyle. Mark my words, as society gets worse we will see acceptance of abominations like pedophilia. It's a slippery slope.

I agree with this point. Yes as Bible says the generation will get more and more perverse. No stopping it.

The LGBTQ people search for acceptance in the society so that their sin can spread. As Christians we should never accept this practice as normal.

I believe civil law should line up as closely as possible with God's law. Homosexuality, for example, should be illegal. I am not progressive or politically correct, nor will I ever be.

This is where I disagree with you. Can you give a Biblical support that we Christians should support the civil law to line up with God's law?

Here are my points against such views,
1. If we believe in a Christian majority nation, civil laws should be governed by Christian principles then we should also accept in Muslim nations, Sheria law should be used. But Sharia law is clearly anti-Christian and prevent the spread of the Gospel by persecuting Christians. How do we call that evil but call Christian laws in USA as good?

Other than our personal bias, there is no way we can give a clear answer to this question.

2. Because Christians are supporting civil laws based on Bible, Church has to mix with politics. A church should never have anything to do with politics. Jesus nor the apostles did anything with the politics of their time.

Sree, let me ask you a question: do you think pedophilia should be legal?

I fear We put the cart before the horse when we demand the unconverted follow God’s ways! They cannot, they are blinded by the spirit of this age. Without knowing Jesus intimately, they will not obey. The call from God’s messengers from Old and New Testament as I grow in knowledge of our Savior is repent and turn to, or turn back to God through Jesus Christ, and literally and spiritually follow Jesus.

The laws of Christ [agape love being the top priority, and flowing downward through the rest] should and were used within the church, to grow the church into the image of Christ through the empowering and continual direction of the Holy Spirit within each born again one. By the Word of God ministered through the various parts of the body of Christ, unto and with the rest of the growing body of Christ.

To throw laws down for unconverted people to follow I fear is a waste of energy and time God has provided us with to win the lost for Christ and grow His body into the fullness of Christ. These laws will not get them one step closer to Christ and without Christ they will still go to the lake of fire!

We each know Gods grace has been holding people back from more sever outreaches of sin for an extremely long time. We also know that, that grace is promised to diminish bit by bit. Until unrighteousness goes full swing.

Perhaps God has called some to put energy into politics, if so I fathom it is to win others to Jesus and thus them to become apart of Christ body to help us all grow into the Image Of Christ. It’s suppose to be all about Jesus. I have been given perhaps a cup full, probably less of God’s oceans of knowledge though, so at the end of the day may God be glorified and His will be done on earth as it already is in heaven. We will each answer to Him one day and all will be burnt but the gold, silver and precious stones from our lives.

May God open my eyes to my blind spots in His mercy, and the eyes of my brethren as well in His mercy. So we all can see clearer what He would have of us daily. May we each heed His voice and follow Him wherever He leads. Growing into the image of Christ. Even if like Paul and Peter it is to our physical deaths as His witnesses, or John where we continue to tell of the glorious truths of Christ till old age.

Billy, I agree. Legislation will not make anyone holy; the world does not know what love is. They don't know Jesus.

Read Romans 13 though. The proper purpose of government is to punish evildoers. Sometimes they fall short of their God-appointed purpose, but that does not negate the scriptural mandate given to governments.

"A wise king scatters the wicked, and brings the threshing wheel over them." Proverbs 20:26

Sree, let me ask you a question: do you think pedophilia should be legal?

No, I don't believe it should be legal. In the same way, as I believe abortion should not be legal and also gay marriage. But I don't believe we as Christians should fight to make them illegal.

To throw laws down for unconverted people to follow I fear is a waste of energy and time God has provided us with to win the lost for Christ and grow His body into the fullness of Christ. These laws will not get them one step closer to Christ and without Christ they will still go to the lake of fire!

I agree with you completely. I want to add that this restriction of unconverted people in the name of Biblical laws in the country, we are only turning people away from the Bible and God's love.

I cannot believe a woman who wants to abort her unplanned child will come to christ just because there is a law to prevent her from doing what she wanted. Instead, she will further move away from Christ in whose name such laws are established in this country.

She can come to Christ by Christians around her being a light to her though.

I'm not trying to pick an argument with you.

But, and let me make sure I am not misunderstanding you, you don't believe we should oppose pedophilia being legalized?

Sree, that's absolutely bonkers.

I agree with you completely. I want to add that this restriction of unconverted people in the name of Biblical laws in the country, we are only turning people away from the Bible and God's love.

So we should show them how much we love them by letting them murder and abuse their children?

Please correct me where I’m wrong as much of what you are saying finds concordance with my spirit 🙏🏻

If I’m understanding you correctly, you are saying that a/the Law cannot bring righteousness. Full stop

In this case you aren’t opposed to laws being enacted to protect the innocent, but you are saying as the body of Christ this isn’t our primary objective as it does not produce the fruit we are sent to harvest.
- Righteousness thru faith in Christ -

You are saying, yes vote your conscience for all good ! But don’t let that be where we (the body of Christ) overcommit to the cause of affecting the lower law only but primarily focus our efforts and intentions to affecting the world round about us thru allowing Gods influence (grace) to flow thru us to both believers and unbelievers alike. If we get too caught up in the civilian affairs of this world, we are distracted and more likely to have strife and factions due to our identifying ourselves with that cause which makes us less focused and less effective in the spiritual battle.

This is what I’ve gotten from you in this thread, feel free to correct or ignore 🙏🏻

The Gospel is central to everything we do. There is no doubt about that. We must be proclaiming the Gospel. People need to be saved. We must be faithful and diligent as individuals and as churches to make sure that is happening. However, to suggest that it is better that a mother murder her child than to allow that child to live and (potentially) be abused is absurd.

Think about it, with that logic, I could go to a child, who is being abused, even violently or horrifically and say "it would have been better if you had just been killed in the womb." What kind of convoluted statement is that? It isn't godly. It is evil. It denies the intrinsic value of the person and it most certainly is a de facto denial of the doctrine of the Imago Dei. You don't know what kind of life the non-aborted child is going to lead. You don't know how God plans to use them. And believing something like that will NOT get them saved nor motivate you to witness to them.

"But what prevents this unregenerated person who is forced to have an unwanted baby from abusing the baby after birth? The baby would have better died in the womb rather than being born and abused all their life." Show me this principle anywhere in Scripture.

"The proof that so many elderly posters in this forum who consider themselves as Strong Christians have divorced and failed to raise Godly offerings, shows their wasted personal testimony. But they will all fight against abortion as that is the only thing in their eyes that God hates!"

Who in the world are you talking about here? I hate divorce. I hate sexual immorality. I hate abortion. I hate all those sins. Every godly person I know hates them as well. Just who are you pointing the finger at here, sree? At the Church? You have no right to condemn the entire church in this matter, because your beliefs are not justified. I can hardly bring a logical argument against your case because you literally provide no evidence for the things you claim! This is insanity to abuse the bride of Jesus Christ like this.

You said: "I want to add that this restriction of unconverted people in the name of Biblical laws in the country, we are only turning people away from the Bible and God's love." Sounds a lot like "let us sin that good may come." You're walking a dangerous line here, my friend. Prove to me that this is the case. Show me how me voting for certain laws causes lost people to remain unconverted. The bible makes it clear that the law is a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ. If there are no laws, if there are no morals, and everyone does what is right in their own eyes, then how would we ever be able to express the need for repentance from sin? Sure, we can show them the Bible, but if the government is doing what it was meant to do per Romans 13, then they will punish the wicked and reward the good. Without moral laws based upon the general revelation of God, the conscience that God has given us, and frankly the special revelation of God (the Bible), then people will be so immoral and wicked and ignorant of that, that I don't think we'd be able to convince them that what they are doing is evil.

Q: Should Christians fight for abortion laws?

I do think that there is an error in the premise of the question itself. The idea of "fighting" is not exactly what Christians are trying to do when it comes to abortion. Rather, it is sharing a collective voice of the Christian community.

One error in the concept of government (and the role of Christians in it) is that the idea of "government" and "law" seems quite faceless and nameless. This might be due to the long history of monarchies, theocracies and dictatorships in human history.

The United States was very different during its founding. It created a government "of the people, by the people and for the people." In fact, the Preamble to the U.S. Constitution says the following:

WE THE PEOPLE of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Thus, in the very foundational legal document of the United States, the purpose of the Constitution (the law of the land) is to "form a more perfect Union." This includes the following:

- Establish Justice
- Insure Domestic Tranquility
- Provide for the common defense
- Promote the general Welfare
- Secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity

To be clear: This is not really the Constitution OF the United States of America. Rather, it is the Constitution FOR the United States of America.

Obviously, you cannot mandate godliness. You cannot legislate salvation either. That isn't the purpose of the law (even the Law of Moses). The law establishes a set of statutes for righteousness.

Interestingly, the foundation of law in the United States itself is based upon the principle known as the "consent of the governed."

As such, the law exists in America because we (the people) consent to its existence. Even the Constitution is not a law that tells us what we can or cannot do. Rather, it exists to tell the American government what it cannot do -- because we have "natural rights."

John Locke was one of the English philosophers who influenced the founders of America. He pushed the idea of "tabula rasa" -- a clean slate. This was somewhat revolutionary at the time. He pointed out that there was no real "divine right of kings." Rather, babies were born into a sinful world yet with a clean slate -- not yet having committed a sin.

This became a foundation for America. With this in mind, a republic was born with a constitution that LIMITS government by remanding the rights to the people themselves.

The law exists because we agree upon it. If we want that law to change, then we can change it at local and state levels. If that law is deemed by the Supreme Court to be unconstitutional, then we still have an ability to amend the Constitution too.

Let's be clear: Abortion is murder. To believers, this is some evil "right" for a mother to solicit a medical practitioner to KILL her very own child. There is no "right" in the Constitution.

The Roe v. Wade decision insinuated that there was a "right of privacy" (so that a doctor could recommend an abortion). However, that law itself doesn't even state that abortion is actually a constitutional "right."

So, what should Christians do?

I believe that the idea that Christians should sit idly by -- doing, saying and influencing nothing -- while the world around us moves toward immorality is a bad idea.

We have an ability to influence. Obviously, our first method is by sharing the Gospel of Jesus Christ to a lost and dying world. At the same time, we can share our voice. We have a voice -- via a vote -- in determining who governs us (temporarily as it might be) and, of course, the laws of this land.

Corrie ten Boom and her family defied the laws of the Nazi subjugators. She hid Jews in a hiding place in her home. She obtained extra rations too. Her family paid for their insurrection with their lives. Other Christians have done likewise.

Corrie ten Boom believed that God's law superseded the demands of the Nazis. She believed, as many Dutch resistance people did, that the people of their land had a natural right to determine the laws of the land. Thus, they weren't subjects to the Nazi laws.

The early church echoed this when they considered whether it was right to obey God or men. If we have an ability to influence the law -- as temporary citizens of a country -- then why not share our voice that reflects our heavenly citizenship?

This is an area where I think science may ultimately have more of an effect than evangelical protest or voting.

At some point there will be undeniable evidence that a fetus is a human being. For example, we will be able to establish that an unborn child thinks, has emotion, etc. As cience progresses evidence will become undeniable.

It will get to the point that a pro abortion person would have to make the argument "we know a fetus is fully human but we want the right to kill it anyway.” I don’t see that going over too well.

After all, even sea turtle eggs are protected.

You are saying, yes vote your conscience for all good ! But don’t let that be where we (the body of Christ) overcommit to the cause of affecting the lower law only but primarily focus our efforts and intentions to affecting the world round about us thru allowing Gods influence (grace) to flow thru us to both believers and unbelievers alike. If we get too caught up in the civilian affairs of this world, we are distracted and more likely to have strife and factions due to our identifying ourselves with that cause which makes us less focused and less effective in the spiritual battle.

Yes, that is my exact point. You have put it in better words.

I am NOT against people using their democratic rights to vote for a person who is prolife. But to set their heart on such a person and call such a person a messenger of God to save those unborn children, these things I am against.

Vote based on your conscience but do not set your hope on the laws. This is not God-ordained way to fight any evil.

Also, Churches and Christian leaders supporting political candidates because they are prolife is also pure evil. Let them vote for whom they want but not come public in their support. This to me is very similar to Muslim leaders enforcing Sheria law in Islamic countries by controlling the politics. I find no difference between Islam and Christianity in USA, both are in the same gutter of politics.

Corrie ten Boom and her family defied the laws of the Nazi subjugators. She hid Jews in a hiding place in her home. She obtained extra rations too. Her family paid for their insurrection with their lives. Other Christians have done likewise.

The Tenboom family did not get involved in politics to fight Hitler and the killing of Jews.

The equivalent of what they did in this scenario could be to find mothers who wanted to abort their children and convincing them that you will raise the child as your own and raising them safely. There is nothing wrong in this.

I also know a very Godly elder brother in my native place who was a doctor in a government facility. He rejected to treat women who were getting abortions as it is against his faith. The government authorities thretened to fire him, he answered them that he is willing to lose his life anytime, so just losing a job will not make any difference!

Such testimonies are great, but this cheap testimony to fight for a politician just because he is willing to support prolife is what I am against.