Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?

[edited out some typos]

I wonder why does it say in the Heading "Revival and Church History?" Why not "Revival in the church today?" Is revival confined to sepia-colored photographs and the yellowish pages of classic books that speak of a glorious past?

Before I go into the topic of Acts 19:2, let me give you some background. I minister in a church where most of the church members come from a very strict evangelical Russian-German background. Men and women sat apart, head coverings, quiverful of children, tea-total, no TV, no internet, harsh church discipline for breaking rules. They usually live within their own circles. The older generation has endured persecution under Soviet rule. We have good and accurate bible teaching in our church, doctrinally correct but missing the fire of the Spirit.

There are many bible verses about that. In the Acts of the Apostles the baptism of the Holy Spirit is mentioned in many passages and occurrences. The apostles made sure that believers were filled with the Holy Spirit, and if not, they taught them and laid hands upon them. Aquila and Priscilla took Apollos aside and taught this great and learned preacher something he still lacked. What was it what the Samarian believers, Apollos, and the Ephesians in Acts 19 were still missing? The baptism of the Holy Spirit!.

This is a crucial question for me. I have been preaching 11 messages in our church about the Holy Spirit and preached that you should seek the baptism of the Holy Spirit after conversion. Most of our church members are perplexed to say the least and feel unsettled. There general believe is, you get the filling of the Holy Spirit at conversion and that settles it. There is no more to be expected, we have the complete word of God now and that is all there is.

I feel like trying to explain to fish that there is something above the water they know. I am praying for them and teaching them about it, but apart from one or two who became a bit curious, I have not been able to succeed in what the apostles did.

I wonder how can a church actually grow in grace and love and knowledge without having received the power from above? Are we not confined to just accurate teaching? Does it not become the letter that kills?
To the Jews Isaiah prophesied this passage, but are we not in danger to remain in the same deplorable state in present day churches?

Isa 28 9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. 12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. 13 But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

I had received a powerful baptism of the Holy Spirit after a powerful conversion. It was so simple. I had been delivered from deep sin, demons and depression many years back. After I repented and got delivered, they laid hands on me to receive the Holy Spirit. Nothing happened at first. After I went home, I prayed, Lord, whatever you have for me, I need it and I want it, give it to me, and the Spirit filled me with grace, love, power and holiness until I could take no more. It was beyond any description!
I read many books about men and women of God who had the same experience. No two encounters were the same, but all experienced something wonderful. Not all where Charismatics or Pentecostals. I see the work of the Holy Spirit all over the place in the works of Jonathan Goforth, Hudson Taylor, John Wesley, James O. Fraser, D.L.Moody, R.A. Torrey, A.B. Simpson, Samuel Chadwick, Ravenhill and of course A.W.Tozer and Andrew Murray to name just a few.

I cannot imagine that a church can function properly without the golden oil poured out from above. I feel preaching is hard work, like a car being pulled by a horse-cart. (This is what poor Americans actually did during the great depression, but now we have a spiritual great depression and poverty of the Spirit, don't we?)

I know the power of the Spirit, but what is it that it takes to set a church on fire? Perhaps a man on fire, and maybe here is the crux. How can I be so on fire that others can catch it? Does not dry wood catch fire? Cannot empty vessels be filled? Is there not the promise for the thirsty to have their thirst quenched?

You're right brother it is a man on fire and now is a time, a season for separation of fasting and prayer even separating from ministry for a period of time until you get in indued with that power from on high, it's coming and it's touching people right now but you'll have to wait for a while if you don't seek it now, God said this season now is for fasting and praying and you won't feel that preaching his hard work after that when it comes upon you because the fire is coming as a revival Fire it's coming as a baptism of Fire but you don't want to wait for that, you want to be part of the ones that bring this 🔥. separate Yourself for a season and the season itself will separate you the season itself will sangctify you and lift you into a certain type of sanctification that you've never known and God will use you in a way that you've never been used, your words will be powerful, your words will become spirit and life the old man will die you'll recognise that he's dead and will have power over the old man to crucify the flesh and its passions and the Christ that lives in you, will come alive, the new man will do the work , 4 it is no longer us who live but christ who lives in us and he'll do the work you'll see conversions and baptisms of the holy spirit this will become common in your ministry but you must fast and pray and I dare say be quick to hear and slow to speak have a break from speaking for a period of time the lord will lead you into that and he will let you know how much time to have off and you'll be blessed,and recieve what it is that you asked for and what it is that you thirst for... Be blessed in the mighty name the powerful name of Jesus Christ through the spirit of Grace according to the promises of the father amen

It seems odd to me that so many churches (including my own) emphasize speaking in tongues as the initial evidence of being baptized in the Holy Spirit. I personally think it's holiness and breaking the power of indwelling sin that is the initial evidence. I have known many people who think they speak in tongues but it looks to me like they speak made up gibberish, the same phrases over and over again. Besides, they don't live holy, set apart lives. I believe in tongues (and all of the gifts), but to me I want to see Jesus in the life of a believer. It seems inane to me that people who supposedly have the baptism can't even live like I do.

When I look at church history, I see person after person who was baptized with the Holy Spirit without speaking in tongues. The earliest reference I can find after the Early Church era of people speaking in tongues is I believe John Wesley mentions a group of believers in France who spoke in tongues. It seems that gift lay largely dormant until the Azusa Street revival.

I hesitate to even say this on SI, but I do not have the baptism yet. It's almost like if I say that, everyone tries to convert me to their way of thinking (or tries to just plain convert me; some people think anyone that says that is unsaved). I definitely have the Holy Spirit; I feel God's presence, I love Jesus, I hate sin, my prayers are answered.

Some teach erroneously that believers who don't have the baptism don't have the Holy Spirit. I can't accept this. Scripture says, "But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him." Romans 8:9 I know God. I know I'm saved. Nobody can tell me different, not even Michael the archangel.

You are very honest brother Nigel. Here is a question for you and others who read this:

If you believe that there is such a thing as the baptism of the Holy Spirit, do you think it is just an option or a must-have?
Would you want it if you can receive it?
Would you want to do away with anything that hinders you from receiving it?
Would you be willing to accept any gift He bestows to you?
Are you willing to bear the reproach that comes with it?

It's a must have. I want whatever Jesus has for me. I won't let anything stand in the way of me getting it. And yes, I will bear the reproach.

To be honest I've seen what other believers call the baptism with the Holy Spirit and I don't want it. I want what the apostle Paul, John Wesley, Leonard Ravenhill, Charles Spurgeon etc had.

Hello brothers,

I was at work years and years ago and had been seeking the baptism of fire! At conversion all my habitual sins were dropped liked handcuffes off my wrist. At work one night on break the Holy Spirit came upon me and I received a prayer language. With respect I must say it is not the same as what I have heard in some Pentecostal churches I have visited. (Added months before I received the prayer language at work, the precious lady that had led me to Christ was bringing me to different churches to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Funny though He chose to wait till I was at work to visit me, while on break, with no one around! This is not a cookie cutter Christianity. He can’t be put in a box. God does things differently concerning His children, as He pleases.)

I believe we are each given different Gifts in the body of Christ, as scripture states , and Jesus never spoke in tongues, that we know of. A prayer language is just one of many gifts spread out across the body to build up the body of Christ, for Christ glory!

Bottom line, I have surrendered my whole person to God, last night again seeking His Holy Spirit to have full control of me. Brother Kieth Daniel had a wonderful sermon on this full submission to the Holy Spirit. If I find it I will put it down. I want to know my Savior as close as possible, and not waste whatever time I have left before I’m took home! I have threw many things out of my life to make more time to be with Him, and meditate on His word, as I had done when I first met Him. Revelation 2:4

I’m not giving Satan an inch anymore! My time is precious and only Jesus deserves it! Not the spirit of the world! A full sacrifice of self is called for, and I have been crushing any possible idols through His grace and mercy, and His opening my blind eyes to them! That He can have all of me! Whatever He chooses to do with me! Even if it’s a concentration camp were He uses me to point others to Himself! He is worthy, I am undeserving. Sorry if I’m coming off angry, I’m not, but Satan is not going to take my time with the spirit of this world any longer!

I encourage you brother seek Him, smash anything not of Him and let us move on in Christ Jesus!

Jesus has given us the free gift of the Holy Spirit to receive, so that we would have power to be His witnesses.

The Holy Spirit abides within every true believer, but not all have received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, which is the empowerment to every believer to fulfill the ministry that all have been given.

This infilling Of the Holy Spirit is not a one time experience, but we need to be filled with fresh oil continuously.

"The Holy Spirit falls on believers to clothe them with the Lord's power in being witnesses and to manifest the gifts of the Spirit. In this way, we are equipped with talent to work for God, and power to accomplish His will.
(Communion of the Holy Spirit) by Watchman Nee.

"The Work of the Holy Spirit within man is for life and living, enabling us to bear the fruit of the Holy Spirit. The work of the Holy Spirit upon man is for witness and service, causing us to manifest spiritual gifts."
(Communion of the Holy Spirit) by Watchman Nee.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Pursue after the Lord, not the mere concept of holiness, when you realized at last your utter depravity, the seal of our inheritance in Christ will work mightily, filling you with grace, the sweet grace of His presence and power.

Jesus has given us the free gift of the Holy Spirit to receive, so that we would have power to be His witnesses.

The Holy Spirit abides within every true believer, but not all have received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, which is the empowerment to every believer to fulfill the ministry that all have been given.

This infilling Of the Holy Spirit is not a one time experience, but we need to be filled with fresh oil continuously.

This is my understanding and personal experience as well.

I beleive I received the Holy Spirit when I was born again from a Hindu belief. I had holy Spirit to convict me of sin and to bring repentance and belief in Jesus name. But I was still powerless to testify Jesus boldly, powerless to fight against sin, I was still defeated.
But there was a particular night in which the Lord met with me to baptize in the Holy Spirit. From that time I received power to be His witness. Bible became a different book, love of God was poured into my heart.

Now regarding the experience with the Church that the original post was talking about, I have been in the same place, I too felt I was leading a dry group of people. I was becoming restless in my burden for the Church. But with time everything changed. Church is the bride of Christ and Christ knows how to purify his bride. As a minister in the Church, we need to synch our burdens with that in Christ's heart. We need to trust in Christ to purify his Bride to make her ready for Him. He will do it, if we are willing to do our work in his Body.

This topic has been on my mind lately.

I am a reformed baptist of sorts, but my roots are slightly charismatic. From what I have gathered in Scripture, being filled with the Spirit should be continuous. Of course you can NOT be filled, but it should be something that happens multiple times at least or all the time at best.

Now that I say that. I have prayed a thousand different ways, asking God to fill me with the Spirit. But how do I know it has happened?

I look at my own life and am deeply frustrated with the discrepancy of what I want to be against what I am. I see the struggle I have with sin, with boldness, with usefulness to the Kingdom. I know I am called to be a missionary, but what kind of believers am I going to replicate? One's like me? That'd be pretty sorry.

So I think to myself, "maybe I am missing being filled with the Spirit." But no matter what I pray or what I say or what I do, I only ever change by degrees.

Am I closer to the Lord today than I was 10 years ago? Absolutely. Am I where I want to be? Not by a long shot.

I crave to be used by God. I don't care if anyone even notices. And all the while I think, "maybe I am missing being filled with the Spirit." God said he would withhold no good thing. He said that if I ask to be filled He would do it. Well if the deficiency isn't in God, then it is in me, but yet I cannot articulate what I am doing incorrectly.

Just rambling, but that's what I go through when I think about this stuff. It's a conundrum that I cannot solve. I can't deny what I see in the Scripture regarding being filled with the Spirit. And God knows that I am powerless to flip the switch to ramp up my boldness/holiness/etc. So what gives? What's the problem with me?

Yes! Amen 🙏🏻
He is essential to fulfillment in His Kingdom
As He moves, we move,... "keeping step with the spirit"
Pray we have a tender conscience towards Him and a heart that is quick to respond .
Intentionally keeping close to Him
If you’ve been gifted with the Holy Ghost you have been called into service;

1 Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.
2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.
3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.
((((4 No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.))))
5 And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully.

Light is essential in the spiritual battle, and the light of His presence is life that overcomes the darkness. We must stay in close step with Him else we lose our light - we can only stay close if we "follow” Him where He goes. Prayer,... especially for our enemies is one way that’s effective.
Interceding is His mark,.. standing in the gap between the Living God and a spiritually dead person/people.

People can and do fake the "gifts” and pious religious observance can fake the "fruit” but those are for others to see, to impress men. They’re still investing (sowing) into the world.
The response to follow Jesus from a willing heart can’t be faked,... but it can be and is bring neglected and forfeited if we stop investing our lives (sowing) into His Kingdom. [Not bearing our cross in the world]

His Kingdom, our eternal spiritual home, is at war.
His soldiers eat at His Table where He has prepared a feast of His Son, a perfect life, Jesus the Nazarene, the living word is our bread. If we don’t eat spiritual food we won’t have strength enough to fight, to labor in prayer.
If our shields (faith) isn’t tested,... refined in the Lords furnace, it won’t be strong enough to keep us out on the battlefield to do much other than to get off a few clumsy, poorly aimed (prayers) off before we get sniped by the fiery darts (distractions) and have to retreat from the fight.
If our eye be single (Jesus) we have true spiritual light, the eternal indestructible life of Christ. If our eye not be single, the "light" we have is can not overcome darkness. If we, and we’ve all experienced it, take our eyes off Jesus and begin to live (sow) into the world, we reap in the world we must harvest in the world and we’ve been altogether ineffective in His Kingdom as our attention and efforts were elsewhere. His light is only in His proximities and when we aren’t intentional about staying in Christ we will inevitably be drawn away by the cares and concerns of this world.
That’s the evidence, the mark of the Holy Spirit. Being baptized with Him is only the beginning, learning to learn from Him, abiding with Him in prayer, letting Him teach us His word, etc... Otherwise we’re still in the fishbowl of the world and no amount of cunning or sorcery can fake being out of the bowl to anyone who is not in it. They’ve never been translated into His Kingdom, the Holy Spirit is essential to all Kingdom operations.

Hi Nigel, I will pray for you to get it.

Dear brother havok,
You are in a good position to start with: desiring it, feeling powerless, wanting to be used of the Lord.

I will pray for you.

The term "baptism with the Holy Spirit” has been a problematic phrase for many people. Historically this problem has arisen from the Holiness Pentecostal teaching that the baptism with the Holy Spirit is conditional upon having first had an experience of "instantaneous, entire sanctification.” Their doctrine called this a "second blessing.” This same Pentecostal tradition also taught that one had to speak in tongues as the "initial evidence” that one had actually been baptized with the Holy Spirit.

This doctrine, while perhaps descriptive of the experience of the early Pentecostals, does not hold up to the biblical witness. One does not have to speak in tongues or have some experience of perfection to ask for and to receive the empowerment of the Holy Spirit. Further, the purpose of the baptism with the Holy Spirit is not to give us religious experiences, though that may happen, nor to make us "holy,” though it may energize our sanctification. Rather, it is to make us useful in the Kingdom of God. Jesus Himself clearly defines the purpose and result of being baptized with the Holy Spirit when He says, "But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth” (Acts 1:8). For the first disciples, this promise was fulfilled on the day of Pentecost. They were not converted but empowered to witness to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The meaning is clear: The baptism with the Holy Spirit is the gateway into the empowering, gift-giving dimensions of the Holy Spirit’s work.

-Daniel

15 "If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever”” the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.,,,, there's a measure of humility and obedience required to receive the baptism of the spirit, and also the fire of god, pride must be recognized in ones life , for I will resist the proud only give this grasious to the one who humbles him self under the mighty hand of god ,and god will then exalt him ,,faith is required, you must know god will do it , ask , seek and knock....and the blessing will come

It empowers one for ministry, as evidenced at the day of Pentecost. Not to say the disciples weren't saved or had power prior to that. If you read the gospels Jesus commissioned the disciples to preach the gospel, heal the sick and cast out demons prior to His death and resurrection. And they did!

But Peter and the disciples kept failing in many ways, so they also needed power to eradicate indwelling sin. After Pentecost you see them getting victory in areas they were defeated in before.

I am really not trying to fault find or be critical here, but I sense an attitude of elitism among some christians (not pointing fingers at anyone here) who have had the experience (actually or supposedly). Shouldn't christians encourage one another rather than lay a heavy trip on people? I feel sometimes like I'm at the back of the bus, so to speak.

I remember one christian in my town whom I have known for many years, who told me "not to try to minister to my family until I had gotten the baptism". I thankfully ignored the advice, and after praying for my mother for several years, giving her a Bible and ministering to her, she said one night when she was praying and reading her Bible all night she felt "Jesus was in the room with her", in her words. I asked her what she was praying and she said "I said to Jesus I would do whatever He said." She had clearly repented, and was a changed person after that. Yes, she still had struggles, especially with addiction, but she hated sin from that moment on. She died suddenly about a year later. If I had listened to my friend she would most likely be in hell right now.

Does anyone here have any resources about this topic?

There are actually several "brands" of this idea:

The old-school Wesleyan type (pre pentecostal) that was called "the second blessing." Even that was divided into what it meant. Some took the Keswickian route and stated that one could enter into sinless perfection at the arrival of this "second blessing" into full consecration. Others merely claimed it was power for service, power over indwelling sin, etc.

Pentecostals call it "baptism with the Holy Spirit" and there are several brands of that. Some--particularly oneness (which is already unorthadox)--claim that unless you speak in tongues, you're going to hell. Others (who don't deny the Trinity) generally claim that speaking in tongues is merely "normative" or "evidence" for a believer who receives the baptism of the Spirit.

Baptists who are not against the idea of being filled with the Spirit in a capacity beyond salvation tend to claim that being filled with the spirit is a desired state that is continuous, or that it happens multiple times.

ALL OF THAT BEING SAID:

I think it will benefit us to clarify, succinctly (please no dissertations) what it actually is that we believe about this doctrine. The reason this will help us in this conversation is so that we can help understand one another's positions. This is NECESSARY given that each one of us is assuming a definition upon the others. Sometimes, we use the same terms and mean different things. If we don't sort these things out on the front end, we'll just end up arguing.

I hold the final position I listed, if that helps.

Hi Havok,

You beat me to it. I hold to the same position as you. I come from an Assemblies of God background. There is so much confusion on this subject its unbelievable. Within one church you can have multiple differing viewpoints amongst the members. Once you start involving multiple churches it gets even more diverse. And once you involve multiple pentecostal denominations even more so. Assemblies of God teaches two blessings but there are other denomination like Church of God which teaches three blessings! Which one is it one, two, or three blessings?

Anyway I spent years trying to figure this out. I will do a thorough follow up post on my findings later today or when I get some time. But in the meantime here is a question to ponder. How come there is not a command or exhortation to seek a second blessing in the epistles or in the book of Revelation when Jesus rebukes the churches? Another question is where are these teachings coming from? Its mostly drawn out of non doctrinal/descriptive texts from the book of Acts and the gospels. Anyway I will do a follow up on this a little bit later when I get some time.

Getting ready to leave work, but Tozer has one I let my brother borrow. He has said it has really helped Him so far.

Added, He told me God is really speaking to him through it.

Life in the Spirit (Hendrickson Christian Classics): Tozer, A W

But in the meantime here is a question to ponder. How come there is not a command or exhortation to seek a second blessing in the epistles or in the book of Revelation when Jesus rebukes the churches?

Ephesians 5:18 - And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit.

So Epistles commands us to be filled with the Holy Spirit. If receiving the Holy Spirit is just one time blessing at the time when we are born again then why are we commanded to be filled with the Holy Spirit?

I believe in 2nd blessing, but I also believe that God can give both in one blessing as well. That is what God's intention is, to bless us with Baptism of Holy Spirit when we are born again. But God cannot share his glory with man. Hence God clothes us with power only when we are powerless or recognize that we are powerless. If we recognize that we are powerless to fight sin at our born again experience then we will be clothed with power from high. But most of us are not. At least I was not. I believed I was a sinner and I need forgiveness. Hence I accepted Jesus as Lord and savior of my life. But it took me more than a year to recognize that I am in capable of fighting against sin by my own will power. The day I hit the rock bottom and acknowledged my failure, God baptized me with his Holy Spirit.

2nd blessing with of the apostles is clearly scriptural.

John 20 : 22When He had said this, He breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit.

This is the first blessing. The Apostles received the Holy Spirit when they believed in the resurrection of Jesus.

In Acts 2 on the Day of Pentecost, the same apostles received the Holy Spirit with Power, the baptism of Holy Spirit. Hence it is 2nd blessing.

Whether one believes in 2nd blessing or not. What Jesus said in Acts 1:8 is true -

Acts1: 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and you will be My witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.

If we do not have this power that Jesus speaks about to be a living Witness of Christ and to overcome sins, then we need to ask Jesus for this power. Else we need to call Jesus a liar. But sitting idle without asking anything as a powerless Christian, holding proudly to your theology is a wasted life. I see most Christians live such a life of powerless contentment.