Faith as a gift ,Derek prince

Faith As a Gift
A portrait of Derek Prince in black and white
By Derek Prince

Faith, as depicted in the New Testament in its various aspects, always agrees with the definition given in Hebrews 11:1 "Faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.” Yet the essential nature of faith expresses itself in distinct but related forms:

Faith to live by.
Faith as a gift.
Faith as a fruit.
In this teaching, we will examine the second category””the nature of faith as a gift.

The Nature of Spiritual Gifts
In 1 Corinthians 12 on the gifts of the Holy Spirit, Paul opens the chapter with: "Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware.” Then in verses 7”“11 he lists nine distinct gifts:

"But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues. But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.”
The key word for the distinctive nature of these gifts is manifestation. The Holy Spirit Himself, dwelling in a believer, is invisible. But when these gifts operate through a believer, the presence of the Holy Spirit is made manifest to human senses””and the results can be seen, heard or felt.

Since these gifts are manifestations, not of the believer’s personality but of the Person of the Holy Spirit within the believer, all of them are supernatural in character. In every case, the results they produce are on a higher level than we believers could ever achieve solely by our own ability, possible only through direct, supernatural operation of the Holy Spirit. By these gifts, and through the believer, the Holy Spirit emerges from the invisible spiritual realm to make direct impact upon the physical world of space and time.

Paul establishes two important practical points concerning these gifts. First, they are distributed solely at the discretion of the Holy Spirit, according to His sovereign purpose for each believer. Human will or achievement are not the basis for receiving these spiritual gifts. Secondly, they are given "to each one... for the common good”””for a useful, practical purpose. As Bob Mumford has said, the gifts of the Spirit are tools, not toys.

It has often been pointed out that these nine gifts fall naturally into three groups of three:

Three gifts of utterance
Gifts that operate through the believer’s vocal organs: prophecy, tongues, and interpretation of tongues.

Three gifts of revelation
Gifts that impart spiritual illumination: the word of wisdom, the word of knowledge, and distinguishing of spirits.

Three gifts of power
Gifts that demonstrate God’s supernatural power in the physical realm: faith, the gifts of healing, and the effecting of miracles.

Have God’s Faith
The gift of faith is the first of the three gifts of power. It is distinguished from the other forms of faith by the fact that it is a sovereign, supernatural manifestation of the Holy Spirit working through the believer.

In Matthew 21 and Mark 11 we read how Jesus, on His way into Jerusalem with His disciples, came to a fig tree by the wayside. Jesus was seeking fruit. When He found that the tree contained no fruit, He pronounced a curse upon it, saying, "May no one ever eat fruit from you again!” (Mark 11:14). Next day, passing the same tree, the disciples were astonished to see that, within 24 hours, it had withered. "Rabbi, behold,” Peter commented, "the fig tree which You cursed has withered” (Mark 11:21), to which Jesus replied, "Have faith in God” (verse 22). This is the normal English translation. However, what Jesus said, in its most literal form, was, "Have God’s faith.” The special kind of faith we are speaking of here is faith that is a gift. It has its origin in God, not in man””it is an aspect of God’s own eternal nature. Through the gift of faith, the Holy Spirit imparts a portion of God’s faith directly and supernaturally to the believer. This is faith on a divine level, as high above mere human faith as heaven is above earth.

In saying, "Have God’s faith,” Jesus challenged His disciples to receive and exercise this kind of faith, just as He Himself had done. He went on to tell them that with faith of this kind they would be able to accomplish much:

"Truly I say to you, if you have faith, and do not doubt, you shall not only do what was done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, ‘Be taken up and cast into the sea,’ it shall happen.” (Matthew 21:21)
In Mark 11:23 Jesus speaks of this faith not merely to the disciples then present, but by using the word whoever, He extends His promise to all believers:

"Truly I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be taken up and cast into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that what he says is going to happen, it shall be granted him.”
Jesus sets no limit to the scope of this kind of faith. The phrases He uses are all-inclusive: "Whoever says. . . what he says. . . shall be granted him.” There is no restriction as to the person who speaks or the words spoken. All that matters is the nature of the faith: it must be God’s own faith.

In Luke 8:22”“25 as Jesus and His disciples crossed the Sea of Galilee in a boat, they were suddenly overtaken by an unnaturally violent storm. The disciples awakened Jesus, who was asleep in the stern, saying, "Master, Master, we are perishing!” The record continues, "And being aroused, He rebuked the wind and the surging waves, and they stopped, and it became calm.”

Obviously, the faith Jesus exercised here was not on the human level. Normally the winds and the waters are not under man’s control. But at the moment of need Jesus received a special impartation of God’s own faith. Then, by a word spoken with that faith, He accomplished what otherwise only God alone could have done””the instantaneous calming of the storm.

Afterward, Jesus asked His disciples, "Where is your faith? ”In other words, "Why couldn’t you have done that instead of Me?” Wouldn’t it have been just as easy for the disciples to calm the storm as it was for Him””if they had exercised the right kind of faith? But in the moment of crisis, the storm aroused fear in the disciples’ hearts, thus excluding faith. Jesus, on the other hand, opened His heart to the Father and received from Him the supernatural gift of faith needed to deal with the storm.

Quality, Not Quantity
Soon after, Jesus confronted a storm of a different kind””a boy in full epileptic seizure. Jesus dealt with this storm as He had the one on the Sea of Galilee. He spoke an authoritative word of faith that drove the evil spirit out of the boy. When His disciples asked why they had failed, Jesus told them plainly, "Because of the littleness of your faith.” Then He went on to say, "If you have faith as a mustard seed, you shall say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it shall move; and nothing shall be impossible to you” (Matthew 17:20).

Jesus here uses a mustard seed as a measure of quantity. Matthew 13:32 tells us a mustard seed is "smaller than all other seeds.” Jesus is reminding us it is not the quantity of faith that matters, but the quality. A mustard seed of this kind of faith is sufficient to move a mountain!

Near the climax of His earthly ministry, outside the tomb of Lazarus, Jesus once more demonstrated the power of words spoken with this kind of faith. He cried out with aloud voice, "Lazarus, come forth” (John 11:43). This brief command, energized by supernatural faith, caused a man who was both dead and buried to come walking out of his tomb, alive and well.

This kind of faith is found in the act of creation itself:

"By the word of the LORD the heavens were made, and by the breath [literally, Spirit] of His mouth all their host... For He spoke, and it was done; He commanded, and it stood fast” (Psalm 33:6, 9)
God’s spoken word, energized by His Spirit, was the effective agent in all creation.

When the gift of faith is in operation, a man becomes, for a time, the channel of God’s own faith. The person who speaks is not of primary importance””the faith is! If it is God’s own faith at work, it is equally effective whether the words are spoken through directly by God or uttered by the power of the Spirit through the mouth of a human believer. When a believer operates with this divine faith, his words are just as effective as if God Himself had spoken them.

In all these examples, supernatural faith was expressed through a spoken word. By a spoken word Jesus caused the fig tree to wither, calmed the storm, cast the evil spirit out of the epileptic boy and called Lazarus out of the tomb. In Mark 11:23 He extended this promise to any word spoken in faith when He said, "Whoever says. . . what he says. . . shall be granted him.”

Sometimes a word spoken in prayer becomes the channel for the gift of faith. In James 5:15 we are told that "the prayer of faith will restore the one who is sick.” Is there any doubt as to the effect of the prayer described here? Its results are guaranteed. Prayer with this kind of God given faith is irresistible. Neither sickness nor any other condition contrary to God’s will can stand against it.

As an example of "the prayer of faith” James refers to Elijah, who by his prayer first withheld all rain for three and a half years, and then caused rain to fall again (James 5:17”“18). Scripture is clear that the giving and withholding of rain is a divine prerogative, exercised by God Himself (see Deuteronomy 11:13”“17; Jeremiah 5:24; 14:22). Yet for three and a half years Elijah exercised this prerogative on God’s behalf. James emphasizes that Elijah was "a man with a nature like ours”””a human being just like the rest f us. But so long as he prayed with God’s faith, the word she uttered were as effective as God’s own decrees.

Faith of this kind need not operate only through a spoken word. It was this kind of supernatural faith that enabled Jesus to walk on the stormy Sea of Galilee (see Matthew14:25”“33). He did not need to speak; He merely walked out over the water. When Peter followed the example of Jesus and exercised the same kind of faith, he was able to do exactly what Jesus was doing””that is, until he looked away from Jesus to the waves””and his faith deserted him and he began to sink!

Jesus’ reproof is very illuminating. "O you of little faith, why did you doubt?” (Matthew 14:31). Jesus did not reprove Peter for wanting to walk on the water, but for losing faith halfway. Don Basham has pointed out that there is a divine urge implanted in every human heart to step out in supernatural faith and walk on a plane above the level of our own ability. Since God Himself placed this urge in man, He does not reprove us for it. On the contrary, He is willing to give us the faith that will enable us to do it. He is only disappointed when we do not hold long enough to this kind of faith.

God Retains the Initiative
When supernatural faith is given in a specific situation to meet a specific need, it remains under God’s direct control, for it is God’s own faith. He gives it or withholds it at His discretion. Faith is like all other supernatural gifts, concerning which Paul says, "But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills” (1 Corinthians 12:11). That key phrase at the end””"just as He wills”””means God Himself determines when and to whom He will impart each of these gifts. The initiative is with God, not with man.

This was true even in the ministry of Jesus Himself. He did not curse every fruitless fig tree, nor still every tempest, nor call every dead man out of His tomb, nor always walk on the water. Jesus was careful to leave the initiative in the hands of His Father. In John 5:19 He said, "The Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner.” (See also John 14:10). Always the initiative was with the Father.

We must learn to be as reverent and as careful in our relationship to the Father as Jesus was. The gift of faith is not ours to command, nor is it intended to satisfy our personal whims or ambitions. It is made available at God’s discretion to accomplish ends that originate in God’s own eternal purposes. We cannot, and must not, wrest the initiative from God.

Pictured as a "mustard seed,” the gift of faith is similar to two of the revelation gifts””the word of wisdom and word of knowledge. Wisdom is directive; knowledge is informative. Fortunately for us, God, who has all wisdom and all knowledge does not burden us with all of it. But in a situation where we need direction, He supernaturally provides a "word” of wisdom””just one little "mustard seed” out of His total store of wisdom. Or when we need information, He provides a "word” of knowledge””a little" mustard seed” out of His total store of knowledge. So it is with the gift of faith. God has all faith, but He does not impart it all to us. In given situations, where we need faith on a higher level than our own, God provides a" mustard seed” out of His own total store.

Equipment for Evangelism
From another point of view, as we have seen earlier, the gift of faith is associated with the other two gifts of power: the gifts of healing and the effecting of miracles. In practice, the gift of faith often serves as a catalyst to bring the other two gifts into operation. We see this in the ministry of Philip in Acts 8:5”“7:

"And Philip went down to the city of Samaria and began proclaiming Christ to them. And the multitudes with one accord were giving attention to what was said by Philip, as they heard and saw the signs which he was performing. For in the case of many who had unclean spirits, they were coming out of them shouting with a loud voice; and many who had been paralyzed and lame were healed.”
In the first phase of ministry, Philip cast out evil spirits. As with Jesus in Matthew 17:17”“20 and elsewhere, he did so by the spoken word through the exercise of the gift of faith. In the second phase of Philip’s ministry the two associated gifts of healings and miracles came into operation. As a result, miracles were performed and the paralyzed and the lame were healed.

Summary
In summary, we see that the gift of faith is one of nine gifts of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:7”“11), each a supernatural manifestation of the Holy Spirit, dwelling in a believer and operating through him. In the gift of faith, the Holy Spirit temporarily imparts to us a portion of God’s own faith””faith on a divine level, far above the human. Rather than the quantity, the quality matters, wherein a "mustard seed” of this kind of faith is sufficient to move a mountain.

The gift of faith often operates through a spoken word (sometimes spoken in prayer) by which Jesus caused a fig tree to wither, calmed a storm, drove out evil spirits, and called Lazarus to life.

It was this kind of faith that enabled Jesus””and Peter””to walk on the stormy waves. God has implanted in man an urge to exercise this kind of faith and He does not reprove us for doing so. As Jesus demonstrated, the initiative must always be left with God. May we always be obedient to Jesus’ challenge in Mark 11:22, "Have faith in God,” and wisely and effectively utilize the gift of faith.

Amen!

Smith Wigglesworth is also good example in faith even though he was a bit crazy at times.

Lester Sumrall (a friend of Wigglesworth) also seems to be good:

https://www.hopefaithprayer.com/faith-hears-lester-sumrall/

https://www.charismamag.com/blogs/the-plumb-line/26818-lester-sumrall-s-7-troubling-prophecies-over-america

Edit: Not recommending any thing else on the above sites.

I know many people who are negative towards charismatic today, because of unorthodox displays, and then recommend men like Wigglesworth, who punched people to get them healed,and people like Derek prince who saw devils in most Christians. Charismatics nearly always tend to be unorthodox, Lester Sumrall is a word of faith, Platy why would you post lester after coming against the doctrine that he taught that healing is provided for in the atonement, have you changed your mind? You argued the point in another topic early about healing by franklin b......that aside, one of the most biblical and powerful healers today who preaches faith repentance and high-level holiness is Mark Hemans who actually punches people in the tummy sometimes like Wigglesworth.. what iv noticed is men that are dead like Wigglesworth are esteemed, but men like Hemans who are still alive, are ignored, it's like they won't get any honer or recognition till they are dead, now that's what typically religious people do , reject them when they are alive, and turn them into an untouchable saint when they pass on , that nobody now could possibly emulate, and when men today who have received revelations in the same area and begin to change and teach similar things to Wigglesworth and others and also prophesy and speak prophetically, are automatically rejected by the same, what could it be either jealousy or what, or is it they have no gift of the discerning of spirits and I'm not talking about cessationists who don't practice and believe in the sign gifts ,or what else could it be that causes this? Religion Mabey, or religious spirits,Derek prince would have probably cast out the religious spirit, that right, that is the same Derek prince whose sermons are on this site ........1cor.2. 15 The one who is spiritual discerns all things, yet he himself is understood by no one. 16 For who has known the mind of the Lord, so as to advise him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Brothagary,

I listen to people in both camps. I take what I need and discard what I don't need. I have a few books by Derek Prince and I like him for the most part but don't agree with all of his viewpoints. Same goes for Wigglesworth. Sumrall I'm not as familiar with. If he was a prosperity teacher then I take back my comments about him.

As far as the healing goes I don't have health insurance and decided not to rely on health insurance a while back. I'm a healthy person right now but when health starts failing or if I injure myself in a accident how would God deal with that? Is he going to use divine healing or maybe he might providentially send money or other resources to go get treatment. Could be either one. The nature of that discussion (if I remember correctly) was not that God can't heal but the manner in which he will meet that need. Could be divine or could be providential. It wasn't jealousy or anything else just a topic I had to think about.

i didn't mean you were jealous, I was speaking generally about charismatics and Pentecostals,, yes Sumrall was teacher on prosperity so was Derek prince, most if it all of them did teach prosperity, some just talked about more and some overemphasized it, the nature of the discussion with franklin was healing in the atonement, his teachings have always been centered around god always want to heal all our sickness as he wants to forgive all our sins.. here's a teaching of prince on prosperity ......Material Benefits
Now we will look at the blessings and the curses specifically in the material realm. First of all, we look at the material blessings promised to obedience””and there are many indeed. (It is not possible for me in this brief letter to list them all.) Here is what Moses says in Deuteronomy 28:
Blessed in the city and in the country (verse 3)
Blessed shall be the offspring of your body, the produce of your ground, the offspring of your beasts, the increase of your herd and the young of your flock (verse 4)
Your basket, your kneading bowl, and your purse will be blessed (verse 5)
The Lord will command the blessing in your barns and all that you put your hand to (verse 8)
You will abound in prosperity, in the offspring of your body, your beast and the produce of your ground in the land the Lord gives you (verse 11)
The phrase, "The Lord will make you abound in prosperity” describes a blessing that results from hearing and obeying the voice of the Lord. Moses returns briefly to the same theme in Deuteronomy 29:9:
"So keep the words of this covenant to do them, that you may prosper in all that you do.” NASB
Keeping the words of God’s covenant causes us to prosper in all we do. That leaves no room for failure or frustration in any area of our lives. These are the blessings promised to obedience.
.

I think here is where the line is crossed. These promises were given for unregenerate Israel who were given earthly covenantal promises and earthly territories to possess.
Later in Deuteronomy is was promised the Israel indeed will abandon their God and turn to idolatry and it did happen.

Now in the new covenant we were never promised an abundance of earthly possessions and prosperity, power, prominance and dominion. It is rather the exception when Christians have these.

On the contrary, we can expect persecution and hardships to form godly character. Riches and fame do not matter much to the spiritual man, because when we have the fullness of Christ, earthly possessions add little value to it.
It is actually more difficult be rich, famous and powerful and still lead a godly life.

Our hope is in Christ and at his return we will share all riches and dominion with Christ. None of the apostles were rich. Christ became poor for us and he gave us eternal riches!

There is this joke where a Christian comes to the gate of heaven carrying a bag of gold. The angel tells him, you can dump it here, we use it as tarmac.

I know what you believe narrow path, you said many times, according to your faith be it unto to you, I'm sure there are millions of Christians who are prosperous who would beg to differ and have faith in scriptural verses like this and experience the same 1The elder, To the beloved Gaius, whom I love in the truth: 2Beloved, I pray that in every way you may prosper and enjoy good health, as your soul also prospers.

come on brethren lets all come together in agreement and pray for poverty and suffering, here's a verse to meditate on it will help us to align our minds with poverty.........................6Remember this””a farmer who plants only a few seeds will get a small crop. But the one who plants generously will get a generous crop. 7You must each decide in your heart how much to give. And don’t give reluctantly or in response to pressure. "For God loves a person who gives cheerfully.”c 8And God will generously provide all you need. Then you will always have everything you need and plenty left over to share with others. 9As the Scriptures say,

"They share freely and give generously to the poor.

Their good deeds will be remembered forever.”d

10For God is the one who provides seed for the farmer and then bread to eat. In the same way, he will provide and increase your resources and then produce a great harvest of generosity in you.

11Yes, you will be enriched in every way so that you can always be generous. And when we take your gifts to those who need them, they will thank God. 12So two good things will result from this ministry of giving””the needs of the believers in Jerusalem will be met, and they will joyfully express their thanks to God.

We are commanded to give to the poor, not to be poor

Brothagary,

What would you do with 1 Timothy 6:4-9?

4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,

5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

6 But godliness with contentment is great gain.

7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.

8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.

9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.

Especially the phrase "supposing that gain is godliness"?

If that is what Prince taught then he is basically teaching that gain is godliness.

The original OP was about the gift of faith and its manifestations. I'm not really complaining, just reminding.I bet you've also got many good comments in you about it.

If you have a desire in your heart to be rich you have fallen into the snare of the devil period I don't think being prosperous means being rich otherwise it would contradict the rest of the scripture, but being prosperous enough to have a church in your own house what they did in the New testament would be nothing wrong with that if you wanted to do home church and have enough room to be able to even do ministry and have your own ministry where you go out onto the streets and help the Poor there'd be nothing wrong with being prosperous enough to have those visions in mind ,seek first the kingdom of heaven and all those things will be added into your life, and even have a property and then to have enough room on that property to be able to set up small units where you could help orphans and widows in their afflictions this would be a good vision. to some they would also say to be prosperous enough to adopt a few children no point condemning abortion if one's not prepared to look after the The Lost fatherless children, dream big brother let God put those dreams in your heart don't dream small and keep a poverty vision where you've just can't even flat out put in an offering of 10% Tith, let God put the visions in your heart stop letting you poverty theology keep your poor God might have great plans for you might plan for you two to give 50 to $100,000 a year to support missions and further the gospel to feed pastors in poor countries in Africa,let God put the visions and dreams in your heart and he will cause you to dream big don't hold onto a limiting theology that's going to keep you believing that poverty and just scraping by is what God wants for you yeah you know what, he will teach you to be satisfied with not much like the apostle Paul.I hope the holy spirit teaches us to all to be satisfied whith is the shirt on our back and food ,and he does, I believe he does do that but just remember that Paul knew how to abound which is being prosperous and to have enough, but all so he could share and be a blessing financial blessing to others, Jesus said if someone wants to borrow off you, I mean you don't have enough money to be able to lend people that's not right ,there is going to be enough poor people out there in the future, how is it possible to be a blessing unless you're prospered but according to your faith let it be done to you you're faith will limit you or it will release blessing in your own life but never desire to be rich because those that desire to be rich have already fallen into the snare of the devil and have been taken captive already to do his will, this is just a flesh those that put to death the flesh put off the old man they don't desire to be rich they desire to be a blessing to others and their own families Paul even expected us to look after our uncles and aunties we truly can be a father to the poor and help many people but it takes income money to be able to do that it's about fulfilling all those scriptures rather than taking scripture out of context to suit a limited understanding like the pagans the gentiles always worried about these things but seek first the kingdom of heaven your father knows what it is you need and all these things will be added into your life even before we ask. We don't even need to pray for stuff like this he will add it into your life if you want to be a blessing to as many people as possible he will use you like he's used millions of other Christians but your faith will be the catalyst to bring you into this blessing and enable you to be a blessing two others or your Faith will limit you so that you just scrape by and you feel guilty that you can't even give enough to the church and you can't even buy the groceries for that old man thatold pensioner who's got hardly anything and you see him when you're at the shops your heart goes out to him but you don't even have enough money to help, You get to choose do you want to be a blessing or do you want to just scrape by and then glorify poverty because that's your life just on the edge of poverty all the time.No God wants us to be prosperous in all things but content with nothing because it'll be through trials that you'll learn patience and contentment with having very little but when he's seen that you've learned the lesson of contentment and patience and praising and glorifying God in all things he will raise you up out of that but only if you believe.....

These are the things you are to teach and insist on. 3If anyone teaches otherwise and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, 4they are conceited and understand nothing. They have an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions 5and constant friction between people of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.

The context here brother is teachers using their positions to gain money, and that is the reason they pursued the office of a teacher or paster, clearly, they are either not Christians as you can see by the fruit described above or they are babes in christ being carnal, which i doubt, its is why Paul said to avoid them, they sound like wolves, no if you think Derik prince is a wolf, you make that call, but also remember David Wilkinson was no poor man but very prosperous, and so is paul washer and most of the well knowen reformed teachers ........John Piper. .
John MacArthur. John MacArthur is the head pastor at Grace Community Church in Sun Valley, CA. He, like John Piper,
Francis Chan. Francis Chan was the head pastor at Cornerstone Church in Simi Valley, CA. His style of preaching is a mix of charisma, creativity, intellect and seriousness all wound into one.
Chuck Swindoll. Chuck Swindoll,,,,you better do as paul said and avoid all of them cause they all make more then a living out of the gospel .Brother can actually recommend a good preacher to me please that you listen to that does not make a good living out of the gospel

Platy do you think you paster is prospered or poor with just a shirt and a bit of food

"Paul establishes two important practical points concerning these gifts. First, they are distributed solely at the discretion of the Holy Spirit, according to His sovereign purpose for each believer. Human will or achievement are not the basis for receiving these spiritual gifts. Secondly, they are given "to each one... for the common good”””for a useful, practical purpose. As Bob Mumford has said, the gifts of the Spirit are tools, not toys.”

Amen, very edifying, thanks for posting brother. I’ll read this one a few times!

It may be the only place I disagree with prince if i understand him correctly that he means we play no role in receiving the gifts of the spirit, I think paul made it clear that we are to desire the gifts till we get the ones we want and then gods sovereignty in a group setting will empower or light up gift as he wills for the edification of others for the spirit blows where it wills in that regard ..these scriptures indicate we can covet any of the gifts. . . 1cor12 31But eagerly desire the greater gifts. And now I will show you the most excellent way.
·

1 Corinthians 14:1
Earnestly pursue love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy.

1 Corinthians 14:39
So, my brothers, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.

Could it be that the Holy Spirit gives us each a gift, as we enter the body of Christ. Being mere babes in Christ, then as we grow more mature. The Holy Spirit encourages us through His Word to ask or even desire inwardly the greater gifts seen within the Word to help the body grow more fully into maturity in Christ?

For sure billy i may be taking prince out of the full context of his wisdom and scripture understanding, he more than likely would have taken those scriptures I posted at face value, they seem to clearly telling us to desire the greater gifts. I think if we consider the baptism in the spirit as second work of God , we either receive the gift of tongues and or prophecy when the spirit comes upon us , because the evidence seems to be either one is manifest at that time automatically according to our faith or what we believe, acts mentions that , I think when someone believes that they will receive only the gift of tongues at the spirit baptism that may be all they receive at that time , when someone is freshly born-again before baptism in the spirit they probably receive the gift of mercy, being that we have literally received mercy from God in the application of regeneration, one of the apostles said we love because he first loved us the gifts of the spirit are clearly the manifestation of us "being made partakers of the divine nature, and is gods practical hand forming us into the image of christ, it starts at regeneration or slightly before and ends in one scence when we are made into as the bible says a perfect man ,but in another scence ends in the twinkling of eye when we see him ,for the we will be like him ,and we will know him ,even as we are known .that wich is in part wich are the gifts of the spirit will be done away with ,and we will put on immortality paul said .What a day that will when comes

"...in the twinkling of an eye when we see Jesus ,for then we will be like him ,and we will know him ,even as we are known .that which is in part which are the gifts of the spirit will be done away with ,and we will put on immortality paul said .What a day that will be when it comes.” Amen brother!