The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

sermonindex Jun 21, 2021

The religion of man doesn't believe that the death of Christ alone results in the Eternal Salvation of all for whom Christ died, namely His Sheep Jn 10:11,15 or His Church Eph 5:25, or His People Matt 1:21.

His death for His people produces saving results Jn 12:32-33 23,24

32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. 33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.

23 And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified. 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

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davidkeel Jun 21, 2021

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TMK Jun 21, 2021

Brightfame-

Your posts have a decidedly pro- Calvinist tone, which beg responses, but moderator Greg has asked in the past that we not debate Calvinism on the forum because it leads exactly nowhere and changes exactly no one’s opinions.

The other thread that discussed some of these issues probably went too far.

sermonindex Jun 22, 2021

The Death of Christ alone saved them he died for, namely the Elect, the Sheep, since by His One Offering they were sanctified unto God once and for all Heb 10:10

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

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BranchinVINE Jun 22, 2021

The Lord Jesus died for ** ALL ** men and *** WHOEVER *** believes in Him has eternal life (John 3:16), is predestined (that is, the "WHOEVER”) to adoption as sons of God through Jesus Christ (Eph. 1:5) and is part of the church of the ** firstborn ** (Heb. 12:23).

1 Cor. 15:22-28 ”“
For as in Adam ** ALL ** die, so also in Christ *** ALL *** will be made alive.
But each in his own order:
Christ the first fruits,
after that those who are Christ’s at His coming,
then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be abolished is death. For HE HAS PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET.
But when He says, "All things are put in subjection,” it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him.
When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so *** THAT GOD MAY BE ALL IN ALL ***.

Comment:
What happens at the end?
Certainly NOT a small elite group of people in heaven and the vast majority of mankind burning in hell BUT *** THAT GOD MAY BE ALL IN ALL ***!!!

No further comment.

sermonindex Jun 23, 2021

The word sanctified here in Heb 10:10 is the word hagiazÅ and means:

to purify by expiation: free from the guilt of sin

The Death of Christ has freed them He died for from the guilt of sin. It also agrees with Heb 1:3

Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
The word purged is the word katharismos:

a cleansing from the guilt of sins wrought by the expiatory sacrifice of Christ

So cleansing from and freedom from the guilt of sin is automatically a saving result of the death of Christ !

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BranchinVINE Jun 23, 2021

We gain nothing without this commitment:

Phil. 3:7-14 ”“
But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ.
More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.
Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.
Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith

Heb. 6:11-12 ”“
And we desire that each one of you show the same diligence so as to realize the full assurance of hope until the end, so that you will not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Matt. 8:13 ”“
……let it be done to you as you have believed.

Heb. 11:6 ”“
And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.

2 Tim. 4:7-8 ”“
I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing.

……I have kept the faith.
Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness………

sermonindex Jun 24, 2021

A companion verse of Heb 10:10 which confirms the saving result of them Christ died for, namely His Sheep, its Heb 10:14

14 For by one offering[His death] he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Now who are the them that are sanctified ? Look again at Heb 10:10, and how were they sanctified ? Now these by that same means, Christs death are said to be perfected forever ! This includes their Justification before God, a complete cleansing of all the guilt of their sins. And that for ever !10

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TMK Jun 24, 2021

Brightfame it sounds like you are saying Christ’s death saves the elect period. There is no requirement for belief, repentance, faith etc.

While I strongly disagree with your premise that Christ died only for the elect (a decidedly Calvinist doctrine), even if true your assertion that Christ’s death alone saved them is ridiculous if not dangerous.

If this is not what you are claiming, please clarify.

sermonindex Jun 24, 2021

I stopped posting here long ago. But I continue to read here from time to time. I'm not calvinist, however I don't believe what you call yourself matters. After I read these messages in this post, the very first verse I read in my study time last night was:

Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God. 1 John 5:1

How does one interpret this verse? It would appear the "born of God" precedes the "believes". That believing is the evidence of being born of God. Which means if being born of God proceeds, it is then God's choice who believes. Because no one can be born of God unless He chooses it to be so. The seed cannot grow unless God gives the increase. God is sovereign. He created all things, and to Him everything belongs psalm 24:1. He has power over every heart of man Proverbs 21:1. If God did not have control of all things, then our prays would be in vain.

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drifter Jun 24, 2021

I think it was A. W. Tozer who said you could leave a room where two people were arguing about Calvinism/ Arminianism and come back a year later and they would still be arguing the same points. A believer on either side can get proof texts to make his case, and they sound convincing.

Is God sovereign? Yes.

Does a person make a choice to believe? Yes.

Does God choose us before the foundation of the world? Yes.

We should remember that these same questions have caused needless divisions in time past of genuine believers.

"O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!" Romans 11:33

sermonindex Jun 24, 2021

Brother Nigel,

You choosing God is because he first chose you :).

Man is helpless. To be honest Brother, God uses every circumstance and trial in our life to proof to us that we are helpless. As all things happen according to the counsel of God's will, and they all work for our eternal good, God works every trial to show we can do nothing and receive nothing unless it comes from Him. When one comes to understand this through the teaching of the Holy Spirit, its the beginning of a life of entire faith in Him

Blessings,
Daniel

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TMK Jun 24, 2021

//Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God. 1 John 5:1//

When I read this it means being born of God Is a result of believing Jesus is the Christ. In other words if you believe Jesus is the Christ then you are born of God.

But to each his own.

The more pressing concern is Brightfame’s assertion that Jesus’s death alone is all that is needed (ie no repentance, faith, etc) which of course goes against about all of the NT.

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drifter Jun 24, 2021

Daniel, I agree.

But, if I were to choose right now to reject Jesus and go to hell, God must respect my decision. He wouldn't go against my free will, otherwise He would be a despot.

If you read church history, God used both Calvinists and Arminians to reach the lost. I am decidedly Arminian in my theology, but I call anyone a brother or sister who knows Jesus personally. To separate from a believer or church body over minor doctrinal differences shows a sectarian spirit and quenches the Holy Spirit.

I do live a life of faith entirely dependent on God. He does work all things after the counsel of His own will (Ephesians 1:11), but if I sin, for example, is that God's will? Did He cause me to do that? To say something like that is a logical absurdity.

sermonindex Jun 24, 2021

Hi Brother Nigel,

The things of God are so unnatural to the natural understanding. If we can believe that God created all things visible in the heavens and earth by the word of His mouth from that which is invisible, we can start to understand the almighty power and awesomeness of our God and how we are nothing but vapor before Him. We will live our life each day the way we should all be living our lives before Him, in awe of this awesome God that we don't love nor do we know. What is just for God to crucify His own Son for our sins? If you can answer that question, you get the answer to all questions of His justice and righteousness. My brother, I'm not here to argue at all. I'm simply sharing that God is doing a work in your heart even right now. He works out His salvation in you by His Holy Spirit living in you. That salvation is the finished work of the living Christ, His death and life. Blessings brother, Daniel

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BranchinVINE Jun 25, 2021

I'm simply sharing that God is doing a work in your heart even right now. He works out His salvation in you by His Holy Spirit living in you. That salvation is the finished work of the living Christ, His death and life.

Amen.

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BranchinVINE Jun 25, 2021

Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God. 1 John 5:1

Consider these scripture verses:

John 20:31 ”“
but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.

John 6:40 ”“
"For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”

Acts 16:31 ”“
They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

These scripture verses say that "believing” precedes salvation and receiving eternal life.

Comment:

We are saved by God’s word and work and faithfulness alone, but we must have faith in God’s word and work and faithfulness. Whatever is not from faith is sin (Rom. 14:23)

I agree that all men are totally fallen and no one is able to produce the faith in himself to be saved.

It is the Gospel of Christ that has the power to stir up faith in all who hear:

Rom. 10:17 ”“
So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

The word (Gospel) of Christ generates faith in us (Rom. 10:17) and causes us to be born again (1 Pet. 1:23).

1 Pet. 1:23 ”“
for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.

The "whoever” in John 3:16 indicates that a man has a choice to embrace God’s offer of salvation or harden his heart.

Heb. 14:15 ”“
"Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts.”

Heb. 3:19 ”“
So we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.

sermonindex Jun 26, 2021

The Blood/Death of Christ not only legally saved all for whom He died, but it also effects experiential salvation or conversion. Heb 9:12-14

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

"How much more shall the blood of Christ purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?"

You see this ? Its the powerful Blood of Christ that converts them He died for unto serving the living God. That means they shall live by the Faith of Christ unto serving the True and Living God.

1 Thess 1:9

For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;

”‹This is a result of the powerful effectual blood of Christ !15

sermonindex Jun 26, 2021

Christs death is the catalyst, foundation for all other spiritual blessings given to them He died for to convert them to God. Rom 8:32

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

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TMK Jun 26, 2021

If you changed the phrase "for whom he died for” to "for those who believe” I am in 100% agreement.

Your phraseology is objectionable. I am curious why you insist on stressing this point, as I believe you have made your point. If that’s what you want to believe, nobody here cares. But your point has been rebutted so at minimum it’s a stalemate so likely time to move on.