True and Lost Christians

This is written by a dear brother whom I respect very much.

"Church Growth" is all the rage.
Decades ago...and with an ever-increasing focus as the years have passed...churches began to MAJOR in GETTING people to CHURCH...all the while MINORING in TEACHING people the TRUTH.
Churches soon began to base almost ALL "ministry" on ONE premise:
"God has called us to build a great church...a great congregation...a magnificent facility that offers families every possible outlet by which they then become loyal to this particular body...financially supporting our ministries."
Subtly...the focus changed from CHRIST to a CONGREGATION...from GOD to an ORGANIZATION and its OFFERINGS.
"We offer relevant teaching...wonderful music...programs for the entire family...opportunitites to minister and use your talents!"
So...BEYOND the subtle SHIFT from a focus on GOD to a focus on the ORGANIZATION and "ministry"...what ELSE is so WRONG with the "Modern Church?"
Let me begin that answer here:
1. The desire to be NON-OFFENSIVE
As the stated goal of most churches is to "win the lost"...then it is IMPOSSIBLE to preach the Gospel WITHOUT that message OFFENDING the lost.
Read that again:
As the stated goal of most churches is to "win the lost"...then it is IMPOSSIBLE to preach the Gospel WITHOUT that message OFFENDING the lost.
You see...those who are UNSAVED should either be OFFENDED by the truth OR they should be CONVICTED by the truth.
1 Corinthians 1:18-25 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. 20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. 22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: 23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
Whether it makes sense or not...God wants the GOSPEL to do its work...NOT the ELOQUENCE of the SPEAKER...NOT the MAGNIFICENCE of the MUSIC...not the PROFESSIONALISM of the entire PRODUCTION.
2. The desire to evoke an EMOTIONAL RESPONSE
Folks...God does not want people to simply be MOTIVATED...to be INSPIRED...to be EMOTIONALLY STIRRED.
What DOES God want?
The Lord wants people to be CONFRONTED with the TRUTH.
Read that again:
The Lord wants people to be CONFRONTED with the TRUTH.
You see...those who are UNSAVED will enter a sanctuary with a MYRIAD of established BELIEFS.
And...when it comes to WORLDLY mindsets...WORLDLY views...God wants those mindsets CHALLENGED by the TRUTH.
Did you catch that?
God wants people...and those WORLDLY mindsets...CHALLENGED by the TRUTH...by the Word of God...by the GOSPEL.
I PROMISE you this is TRUE:
God NEVER wants someone who is LOST to leave a service STILL lost...and...He NEVER wants someone who leaves LOST to ALSO leave UNCHALLENGED in their BELIEFS.
Never.
Never.
Never.
Look at the passage above again...and note the stated RESPONSE of those who HEARD the TRUTH...those who HEARD the GOSPEL:
1 Corinthians 1:22-24 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: 23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
Notice it is the SAME Gospel being PREACHED...but the RESPONSE of each GROUP is DIFFERENT.
---The JEWS sought a SIGN...yet...the Gospel appeared to them as a "stumblingblock."
---The GREEKS sought WISDOM...yet...they SOUGHT wisdom ABSENT of the TRUTH.
---The BELIEVERS understood the truth to be the very "power of God, and the wisdom of God."
To those who did not believe...the Gospel appeared to be "foolishness."
So...let me restate what I believe God is saying to churches...to PULPITS today:
Pastor:
If your services are not CHALLENGING the BELIEFS of the LOST...and...even challenging those who CLAIM to be "Christians"...then your services are not CHANGING the LIVES of the lost.
You want PROOF that churches are no longer CHALLENGING the BELIEFS of the LOST?
Read on:
The most well respected Christian pollster of our day...George Barna...long ago began to document the decline of true Christianity here in the United States and even around the world.
His findings...even from 20 years ago...would startle you.
Here is a recent quote from The Barna Group:
"About four in 10 of all Christians and two-thirds of practicing Christians profess the Bible’s credibility."
What does Barna NOT do properly?
In defining "Christians"...it is obvious by the wording that Barna recognizes that a CLAIM of being Christian does not equate to actually BEING a Christian...and...that DISTINCTION should be more heavily stressed.
Not EVERYONE who CLAIMS to be a "Christian" is TRULY a Christian.
So...today...we see only 4 in 10 PROFESSING Christians...or 40%...those who make a CLAIM to be Christian...believe the teachings of the Bible are "credible"...that they are to be BELIEVED.
Amazing.
Stunning.
Most of all...GRIEVING.
Here is ANOTHER stunner:
"Almost half of Millennials (47%) agree at least somewhat that it is wrong to share one’s personal beliefs with someone of a different faith in hopes that they will one day share the same faith." (The Barna Group)
And...WITHIN the "Christian faith"...most believe we should be allowed to differ in our beliefs...as ABORTION, GAY MARRIAGE, and TRANSGENDERISM are now WIDELY accepted among the younger generations.
And...as Barna research notes...with every passing generation...fewer and fewer "Christians" base their beliefs on the precepts found within Scripture.
Week after week...Sunday after Sunday...lost "Christians" leave church services still COMFORTABLY believing it is OK to be a CHRISTIAN while ALSO being HOMOSEXUAL.
Is it?
No...it is not.
Week after week...Sunday after Sunday...lost "Christians" leave church services still COMFORTABLY believing it is OK to ABORT a BABY.
Is it?
No...it is not.
Week after week...Sunday after Sunday...lost "Christians" leave church services still COMFORTABLY believing it is OK to LIE...to GOSSIP...to "SHACK UP"...to commit ADULTERY...to FORNICATE...to LOVE the WORLD more than they love GOD.
Is it?
No...it is not.
I speak the TRUTH.
Yet...today...people are leaving churches day after day without their beliefs EVER being CHALLENGED.
And...God is not pleased...not at all.
What was one of the greatest failures of the prophets of Israel?
Their REFUSAL to confront SIN...the REFUSAL to rightly DISTINGUISH between two OPPOSING belief systems.
It began when the Lord instituted the office of the priest:
Leviticus 10:8-11 And the LORD spake unto Aaron, saying, 9 Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute forever throughout your generations: 10 And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean; 11 And that ye may teach the children of Israel all the statutes which the LORD hath spoken unto them by the hand of Moses.
Then...we find a time when the priests have FORSAKEN that call:
Ezekiel 22:26-28 Her priests have violated My law and profaned My holy things; they have not distinguished between the holy and unholy, nor have they made known the difference between the unclean and the clean; and they have hidden their eyes from My Sabbaths, so that I am profaned among them. 27 Her princes in her midst are like wolves tearing the prey, to shed blood, to destroy people, and to get dishonest gain. 28 Her prophets plastered them with untempered mortar, seeing false visions, and divining lies for them, saying, ‘Thus says the Lord God,’ when the Lord had not spoken.
When we FORSAKE the TRUTH for a "non-confrontational" gospel...we MOTIVATE sinners while LEAVING them in SIN.
It is then DELUSION reigns.
But...what happens when we RETURN to the TRUTHS of Scripture...when we CHALLENGE the people with the "foolishness" of the Gospel?
Malachi 3:16-18 Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name. 17 And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him. 18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.
You see...when we follow the precepts of the Lord...when we determine in our hearts to CHALLENGE the BELIEFS of UNBELIEVERS...it is THEN...and ONLY then...we are able to once again walk in DISCERNMENT...recognizing the DIFFERENCE between TRUE Christians and LOST "Christians."
Does it matter?
More than you may know.
Remember these words:
The Lord NEVER wants ANYONE to be FOOLED into HELL.
What does that mean?
We must tell people the TRUTH...never allowing the LOST to falsely BELIEVE they are actually SAVED.
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My response:
Amen. However, I don't trust Barna as a gauge of reality. I trust the Word, and the true prophets or our time. Leonard Ravenhill stated he doubted if 2% of all evangelicals were BORN AGAIN. I believe this. Even Billy Graham admitted that he doubted if 5% of all who came forward in all of his meetings world wide, were serving the LORD.
Brother, I love you and so appreciate you. I know your heart. But there is one TRUTH that I see lacking in what you share with us in love. That being that when the whole church system is FALSE, it can only produce that which is FALSE. You reference church services that by their very nature, are not of YEHOVAH. You simply cannot produce good fruit from a bad tree. This whole world of "service the LORD" by weekly meetings is a FALSE SYSTEM that began even as Paul was preaching. Man too what was HOLY and added to it, Man introduced pagan customs and celebrations, methodology and so for. Ceremonies and rituals. All disgusting before GOD. Brother, if you white was a tomb, it's still a tomb. And inside is nothing but rotting flesh and dead men's bone. Modern day churchs are some of the most DANGEROUS places on earth. I say without reservation, that men's souls are safer in a BAROOM, than in "church". CHURCHES in all their disguises, ARE NOT HIS BODY. They are an evolution of 2,000 years of violating what YEHOVAH has given unto us in HIS word. It is a cancer that cannot be cured with a band-aid. It must be ABANDONED. Man's version of "church" does not need a reformation. It needs to be ABOLISHED. It is an abomination unto YEHOVAH. You stated it's identity very accurately. But you continue to mention "services", as if they had any validity or recognition in the KINGDOM of the MOST HIGH. Please consider excavating this idealism off of your landscape. 😢
2Co_11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
Man's version of "church" and "christianity" is a transformation that makes LIES sound like TRUTH. Add too or take from the HOLY WORD of YEHOVAH, and you are in EXTREME DANGER.
We simply must go back to the BIBLE, and consider what it has to say about our concept, a false premise with a horrible end. It must be abandoned. It must be CAST OUT. We must come out of her, and reference it no more! We must go back to the Gospels, the Book of Acts, The Epistles of the Apostles, and Revelation, and we must encourage all who will listen to do the same. We simply must follow what is revealed in SCRIPTURE, and not what is stated in the covenants of deceived men and women.
Brother, please hear my love. Rather, HIS love. Come out from among them, and be ye sepaate.
Heart peace and joy in the HOLY SPIRIT to you, your family, and all who love to read and hear what you share,
Bro Lahry

I might gently add that the number of responses, zero, that you usually get may be an indication of how your tone and attitude comes across at times to others. I can't speak for everyone of course, but just offer a suggestion, whether I am right or wrong. You seem like a piano player who bangs one note on the piano over and over and thinks he is offering up something skilled or that people want to hear when that is not the case at all. It's the same ole same ole which has been banged over and over and has become wearisome. Plus, as far as I can remember, you will not inform anyone of who you fellowship with or what type of fellowship it is if you do attend one. Those are very easily answerable questions for most believers. If you don't attend anywhere, then that takes away some of your credibility as a constant critic I would think. It's easy to stand back and only criticize and not take part in the restoration you say others are so needful of. What are you doing to bring it about?

There are a lot of keys on a piano worth playing and considering. Can you perhaps one day post any thoughts on what you believe the church has done right?

Most of the good folks here probably fellowship with other believers and leaders who they know are imperfect saints just as they realize they their own selves are. But they realize commitment is foremost these days, and they see the other saints they spend time with and seek to edify as being well worth the time and effort and are not all caught up in a monstrously evil system. The life of Christ in them and among these church fellowships testifies that this is not so.

I get extraordinarily edified at times during our weekly Sunday service in the local congregation I attend. The true word of God is preached during these services. As it should be. We also have home groups where we come together, and many times share a meal together before we worship and study the word. And the life of God is there! Many here on this forum probably do much the same I would assume. At least they are making the effort and are to be commended. God is well able to restore His church and get it to where it needs to be to face the coming days. If you stand aloof from your kinsmen in Christ and ONLY bang one constant note on the critic's piano then I believe it becomes wearisome and the constant criticism I would think ceases to be constructively born of the Holy Spirit.

Well stated David.

Thank you for your comment. If you would consider that since the "fall" through to Revelation, there is only one message from the TRUE PROPHET of YEHOVAH. REPENT. It was the first and only sermon of JOHN THE BAPTIST, and the first words YESHUA spoke when HE came out of the water.

It is the heart of the MOST HIGH that people REPENT. in 1600 years, this word has somehow escaped the lips of men, women too. It's hardly heard any longer. Apostasy was officially declared as the true church of the world when Constantine declared the church and state to be one and the same. A wedding born in hell. And it has just gotten so much worse down through the years.

I don't write to please men. I write to appease the groaning within. I don't write to hope you like it. I write what I am given to write. What you do with it, is between you and GOD.

In just the last 6 months I have abandoned "churchanity" all together. I have no local fellowship, because I cannot find those who have repented to live holy. So I write on Facebook almost every day. I am going into all the world to preach as directed by the LORD. It is the first time in all of history, that one man, any man can write/preach a message, hit a little button, and the message is instantly available the world over. What a huge opportunity. What a huge responsibility.

So again, I appreciate your comment. I fully understand why you said what you did. My prayer is that one day you will understand, that "church" is not HIS body. That "christianity" has become a term that takes HIS name in vain. I cannot help but plead. My grief is that so few listen.

Here is Lahry Sibley's first introduction back in 2005 that could lead us to know him better...
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=4272&forum=13

Shalom. My name is Lahry Sibley. I'm 61 years old, married with 8 children and almost 10 grandchildren. I was ordained by Evangelist Jimmy Swaggart in 2001. We live in the Dorm building now Bluebonnet Apartments, just across the street from his church. We do not attend church there however. We serve in a small pentecostal holiness church.

I love to sing and preach. I especailly love to write. I'm an exhorter to the depths of my soul. I love missions and missionaries. I've been to Jamaica, Belize, Venezuela, and most recently India.

I am open to preaching engagements, even revivals. I really enjoy the fellowship of like minded ministers and men of God. So don't be bashful. Let's get to know one another.

I will likely participate in the forums here. I've been doing online ministry for about 6 years.

I really look forward to sharing the love of Jesus with you all. God bless you and keep you, lead you and guide you, and prosper all you do following the leading of the Holy Spirit, in Jesus' Holy Name I pray.

Hi Lahry,

Preaching repentance is what we the believers should do.

Then he said to the multitudes that came out to be baptized by him, "Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance, and do not begin to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones. And even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.”
Lu 3:7”­-”¬9 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/luk.3.7-9.NKJV

One thing I would like to encourage you to do is not to give up on having fellowship with one another which our Lord Jesus Christ has taught us to do. You are right that there are many apostate church and false christians but as a believer of Jesus Christ we must shine His light. If you haven't found a church, pray and God will lead you to one.

By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”
Joh 13:35 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/jhn.13.35.NKJV
If someone says, "I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.
1Jo 4:20”­-”¬21 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/1jn.4.20-21.NKJV

PS, there is no one righteous not even one and thanks be to God that we are made holy by the blood of Jesus Christ. He suffered in our place and God raised Jesus from the dead. Jesus is in the right hand of God and He will soon appear and when He comes we will see Him as He is and our bodies will be redeemed. Those who believe in Jesus Christ became the body of Christ and are very very precious to Him. Jesus is the head of the church(His bride and His body) and we must submit to Him and obey His command to love one another.

With love,
Robert

True fellowship nowadays is rare. If you have it, you are very blessed, I long for it. We are trying to find a new fellowship after they kicked us out of the last one because of my continualist views. I am begging God every day for a fellowship. I am not looking for great preachers, or good worship songs, just some simple folks who really love Jesus. Yesterday we went into a fellowship where no one greeted us so we had to introduce us to people. The pastor said in his sermon the waters at the pool of Bethsaida moved by natural causes and had a placebo effect rather an angel who performed a miracle. I still believe in the local church and I believe ultimately God will answer my prayer, but I rather stay out of a fellowship if they do not love Jesus or do not preach the truth.

/In just the last 6 months I have abandoned "churchanity" altogether. I have no local fellowship, because I cannot find those who have repented to live holy./

So out of all those folks you are the only one that God singled out to give the true meaning of repentance to? Is that what you're saying? Your life and walk in the Lord is higher than theirs and that's just the way it is I guess. What if they are the very people God called you to serve, with their warts and all? You seems to think that anyone who goes to a church, even a good God fearing Bible preaching one is part of some vast apostate religious system because they don't see things exactly the way you do. God's hand is not that short is it? I've always been taught that if you don't love God's people and are willing to put in time with them that you don't really love God.

Lone rangers drifting through the true body of Christ are usually proud, are convinced they see things others don't, will not and are not capable of submitting to spiritual authority, and make it a very practiced habit of talking about other believers and leadership. The way out of this quandry is REPENTANCE (isn't that what we're talking about?) if God will forgive you and allow you to recognize your need. Your subject matter when posting is basically the same most of the time as it also ministers false condemnation most of the time. My, how you love to speak of the things wrong with God's church and hardly or never once mention what God has His body doing that is right. That is because you stand so far aloof I think. I might be wrong and so be it if I am, but I don't buy your constantly negative at times almost hateful drumbeat against God's good people.

Larry

I am delighted to hear that you serve in a small pentecostal holiness church.

I recently bought a book "Holiness Bible Readings" by Isaiah Reid Inside the book the first owner had written his name, town and state and the Year of 1910.

I am a seeker of holiness, if you can point me towards holiness preachers it would be appreciated.

Hi Narrowpath,

Yea I totally agree with you that it is rare to find a true fellowship these days. The church that you just visited I would avoid as well.
I too have a continualist view but attend a church that doesn't have the same view.

Although we cannot break bread here at the moment, I can pray for you that God will lead you to a church where you can serve and build each others faith.

Shalom
Robert

I won't comment on the messenger (Lahry), just add a few thoughts to the message.

Something interesting I found on the internet:
"... they were amazed to see that [in the Bible] warning against false doctrine is emphasized more than any other thing,even more than love, unity, and experience" (Renald Showers, in "Israel My Glory,” [April/May, 1995], pp. 24-25).

Here a verse directly from Scripture, written about 2000 years ago:
Acts 20:30Even from your own number, men will rise up and distort the truth to draw away disciples after them. 31Therefore be alert and remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears.
Paul warned the believers with tears for three years.

All we now hear is that revival is coming soon, and we assume all will be good then

Lahry,

I don't know what to say. I meet with other believers, discuss and encourage others in the Word of the Lord, possess the Holy Spirit, serve in my community with the brethren, preach a Gospel of repentance, and all the things you say that I am lacking.

What have I done to receive such a harsh criticism from you, brother?

Thank you for your question. A W Tozer and Leonard Ravenhill are the only two I have left in the sieve of authors I read or have read. The rest are usually spiritually toxic in one form or another.
lahry4u@yahoo.com if you want to discuss topics.

L