Forbidden to preach about the baptism of the Holy Spirit

Dear saints,

I have been in a fellowship where I was involved in leadership and regular preaching. The church at large holds a cessationist view which is grounded in their denominational heritage. I had prayed for revival in our church, and asked God to either set the church on fire or send me elsewhere. I hold the continualist position and recently published an article, that you need to be filled with the Holy Spirit after you believed. Here in Germany, there is a strong opposition from many mainstream denominations against the Pentecostals and Charismatics for over a hundred years. They are right in addressing the excesses and counterfeits, but they go to far and renounce the whole movement altogether. The trenches are too deep to be overcome, only one view can be right and truth cannot be compromised.

We had a church meeting where my position was generally condemned, and they asked me not to preach about it anymore. I told them I cannot, because I really have experienced the baptism and whish everyone would experience it, too.

Ironically, the granddaughter of the leader who led the hearing told me she was recently baptized and with the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues.

To make a long story short, in the end a minority voted that I should stop preaching and the rest abstained from voting. I find it impossible to continue fellowshipping in such a fellowship and I announced that we would lay down my office as administrative and legal representative of the fellowship and leave.

This is a painful situation, but it is not the first time we went through this process. I pray that God will forgive them and that he gives me the grace not to hold grudges and not talk maliciously behind their backs. If I have sinned in any way in the process, may God convict me by whatever means.

We are now without fellowship, which is not good. Please pray for me and my family that God will plant us somewhere where we can serve and bring fruit.

Thank you
Philip

Brother,

I am praying for you and believe that you are truly seeking the Lord in this situation, and want to follow His will .

I am sure that you are aware that in Germany the same pastors that rejected the Baptism of the Holy Spirit also ended up siding with Hitler.

Believers that take a view that the gifts of the Spirit are no longer valid for today are not baptized in the Holy Spirit, and their rejection of you teaching the truth on this subject is a clear indication that they are bound up in their denominationalism and religious tradition, and nothing you can do are say will change that.

Brother, I am praying for you that God would connect and align you to a Body of believers that are going all the way with God, and are pressing on toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Don’t look back Brother, God is working all this out for His purpose and for your good.

Thank you both Greg and Mike for you kind words, I appreciate it. I saw it coming, but it still hurts after you invested and ministered there so much.

It was a painful ordeal but I do believe that God will do something new.

This excerpt is from an article that I will post later by T. Austin Sparks on "Overcomers” Brother Philip, I thought about you as I read this devotional.

"Spiritual leadership always involves loneliness. That is the cost of it. The overcomers will always be, so far as the larger Christian world is concerned, a lonely company, having to go on, with few able to follow.”

Brother Philip,

Take heart and be encouraged! God has loosed you!! Jas 1:2 (NAS) Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials...

Brother, the saints in Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan can't have a home church either. Begin to pray as they do, for someone to minister too. They said they literally have to live by the Holy Spirit and follow His leading whether it kills them or not.

Here is an excellent video of Joel Richardson interviewing a woman leader from the Afghan underground church on their discipling process:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlBh7wmgdTo
AFGHANISTAN: World's 2nd Fastest Growing Church! "What is God Doing in Afghanistan?" Underground 122

I'm praying for you in GER, brother!
Lisa

Thank you, Lysa.

Philip: We were without a fellowship for two years at one point. It was due to the total collapse of a fellowship we were involved in. It was not an easy thing. I had to deal with the temptation to be bitter toward people and hurt. But, God brought me through it and I love dearly the people that, at the time, hurt me.

During this time we never stopped having home meetings. We invited like minded people over and worshipped in our home. We also took the opportunity to go meet the body of Christ. We visited many different fellowships. We saw everything from the solid to the flaky, but it was a really good experience.

I am not trying to say that you should do what I did, but maybe the perspective helps. Who knows, maybe God will lead you to a new fellowship, or maybe He will lead you to start one. But being outside of a fellowship is not the worst thing that can happen to a believer, if that believer has a strong walk with God and is taught by the Holy Spirit.

Paul wrote to the Corinthians
1 Corinthians 2:1When I came to you, brothers, I did not come with eloquence or wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God. 2For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

Amplified: for I made the decision to know nothing [that is, to forego philosophical or theological discussions regarding inconsequential things and opinions while] among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified [and the meaning of His redemptive, substitutionary death and His resurrection].

Paul rejoiced when Christ was preached.
Philippians 1:18What then is the issue? Just this: that in every way, whether by false motives or true, Christ is preached. And in this I rejoice. Yes, and I will continue to rejoice, 19because I know that through your prayers and the provision of the Spirit of Jesus Christ, my distress will turn out for my deliverance.…

Therefore you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed.”
”­”­1 Corinthians”¬ ”­1:7”¬ ”­ cessationism is not true.

Wow. I listened to this video Lysa. So powerful! Her prayer request is that they will suffer well. I can't relate but will be praying. And no need for Joel to defend John M. who doesn't even believe the gospel he believes he is teaching. Our sis from Afghanistan handled that well.

Rusty

Thank you Lysa for sharing this video.
It is very interesting that this woman being interviewed is being led by the Holy Spirit and God is using her in the gifts of the Spirit. Thousands of Muslims are having dreams and visions and are being saved. Just as the early Church was born through a powerful baptism of the Holy Spirit, and grew because the gospel was being preached in the power of the Spirit, so it is in Iran and Afghanistan, and for John MacArthur to say that God is not giving these dreams and visions which are resulting in conversions is just beyond comprehension.

It is very interesting that this woman being interviewed is being led by the Holy Spirit and God is using her in the gifts of the Spirit. Thousands of Muslims are having dreams and visions and are being saved. Just as the early Church was born through a powerful baptism of the Holy Spirit, and grew because the gospel was being preached in the power of the Spirit, so it is in Iran and Afghanistan, and for John MacArthur to say that God is not giving these dreams and visions which are resulting in conversions is just beyond comprehension.

That being said, may I ask what you mean by "It is very interesting that this woman being interviewed is being led by the Holy Spirit and God is using her in the gifts of the Spirit."? Maybe I misunderstood the type written word!!

Joel mentioned in the video that in Afghanistan that most of the Christian men are dead, missing or in jail and that now, the women are the leaders of the underground church.

I didn't mean to misunderstand you.
Thank you Mike!! God bless you!
Lisa

One thing I learned recently. You can be so entrenched in your theology, that you do not accept any challenges to your beliefs, even against overwhelming evidence or facts or even miracles. Matters of faith are not like science, where you can present facts and change someones mind. Truth must be revealed to your spirit in order to believe them. Understanding them with the mind alone does not do the job. In order to get revelation, God will bypass the smart and learned but reveal Himself to babes who diligently seek him!

Paul writes

1 Corinthians 2:13-15
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

I presented them all the truths about the baptism of the Spirit. The truth was alway there, even for centuries. Why did my fellowship not see it? Because they did not seek God and just did not want to surrender to him but maintain a form of religion.

Just like the Jews, who saw Jesus miracles in front of their eyes, witnessed all the healings and Lazarus resurrection but still attributed his miracles as a work of the devil.

I doubt that some of the leading cessationist preachers in the US would change their beliefs if they saw miracles or the gift of prophesy in action.

Last sunday afternoon, when we discussed my case in a church business meeting, the leader of the fellowship started with an exhortation that Christians should be recognized by their "love for each other". When he brought up the question whether to exclude me from preaching he got very angry and did not even give me a chance to answer his questions but cut me off in front of everyone present. He said such issues are a waste of time and stated he will never accept a baptism of the Holy Spirit after conversion. He managed to get the rest of the fellowship in line with him and I got voted out.

I was glad I did not retaliate in the same manner. My wife, who was also there is a great help to me. I believe God will lead me on to something new and I can get throught this without getting bitter. May God have mercy on them and visit them mightily one day. Some days ago I managed to praise God from the bottom of my heart for his goodness, grace and kindness despite of my experience.

I was glad I did not retaliate in the same manner. My wife, who was also there is a great help to me. I believe God will lead me on to something new and I can get throught this without getting bitter. May God have mercy on them and visit them mightily one day. Some days ago I managed to praise God from the bottom of my heart for his goodness, grace and kindness despite of my experience.

He stated very simply that our first practical way to obey the Word is to, align with God's purpose and His purpose is found in Matt 6:7-9 in the Lord's Prayer where Jesus said, "Your kingdom come..." I loved what Derek said, "I am committed to establishment of the Kingdom of God and my life is directed toward that end."

I thought, how simple. If preachers preached that simply, the world would better off!

Any way, God bless you and yours brother.
Lisa

Lysa,

You misunderstood what I meant.
My wife and I have lead intercession for years, and if it wasn’t for the dear Sisters there would have been no prayer meetings.

In our home meetings the gifts of the Spirit are in operation. My wife has a prophetic gifting and has been used in prophetic ministry for many years.

Brother Philipun
Im sorry for this situation you are in currently I pray you can learn what u need to from the Holy Ghost.
My first elder just died to be with Jesus. He taught me many things he used to call me a Baptopentocostal. When I came out of a Catholic backround not dissing any Catholics. I love them but was worshiping Mary and we are to only worship Jesus.. Anyway I was saved and taught in a Baptist church. They taught me to love the Word and I still am in touch with my Pastor Richard.. we just dont discuss the gifts. I then met my still brother and sister in Jesus Harriet and her husband. They were spirit filled.. I was told do not pray with them we dont believe in that. I still pray with them and love to grow in Jesus with them.
Well I was young and feistier.. had to discover so I went to an Assembly of God church and saw for myself the power of the Holy Ghost today.
Unfortunately people I have seen are afraid of the gifts which we know is the opposite of Faith. I have an online church I am a member of..This is Pentecostal church of His presence in Daphne Alabama check it out. Pastor John Kilpatrick. I am also a member of a Methodist church which only a few believe in the giftings..
I am a forerunner there.. The greatest gift is LOVE.. I believe that is why Paul penned to the Corinthian church.in 1cor 12, 13 one lOVE in the middle... this is still the Greatest GIFT.. without it we are a bong.. May His perfect love fill these brothers and sisters in Jesus name. then 1 cor 14.. the gifts can cause problems i believe because of a lack of understanding and fear., jealousy I can go on an on things I have seen in almost 40 yrs. I have just learned to Obey GOD use the Gifts He has given me and remember I am just a messenger and give God the Glory.. He must be so grieved when people dont accept His HolY Ghost and the gifts He has given for the Body of Christ.. Eph 4:11 they are for the edifying of the Body we are the BODY. we need one another and all His gifts and help we can get down here. I cant imagine my life without His Holy Spirit..
I was at a time not wanting to be in any church due to the narrowness and grieving of the Holy Spirit.. I was just staying alone with the Lord and then i was told about CHP and then the other church I was just doing bible studies in. Recently the Lord has given prophetic songs to sing. I dont sing but do sing the songs He gives. I pray you will be healed and see the commonalities. I try to see the commonalities as Paul teaches us we are everything to everyone. God will sort it all out, I love being in the river with the Holy Spirit.. I pray this for you and yours. "WInd Wind Blow on Philip Wind Wind Blow on Philip set him free set the people free Wind Wind Blow on Me set me free Wind Wind Blow on all the churches How we need you How we love you precious Holy Spirit.. Wind Wind Blow on us .. wind Wind Blow on us Precious Holy spirit.."" When Jesus left He left the Holy Ghost here to comfort us.. May you be comforted in this season and be led by Him in all areas in Jesus name.
in Him
Sister Frannie

Dear Sister thank you for you encouraging post and even more your prayers!

YbiC
Philip

Mike,

I thought I read that wrong but wasn't sure. I'm through with satan planting any seeds of discord, so I just thought I would ask you! Thank you for your kind response!

God bless your ministries!!
Lisa

Brother
You are welcome Blessings and to God be the Glory..
Keep obeying..
in Him
sister Frannie