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John MacArthur Shamed, Excommunicated Mother for Refusing to Take Back Child Abuser by Julie Roys

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MichaelLiao Mar 21, 2022

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

I hope you are all doing well and are experiencing a deeper joy in Christ as you walk with him. I am posting this because this is something I found that is more than concerning with regards to a well-respected brother, Dr. John MacArthur. I'm sure many of us have been blessed by some of his teachings and how he has a strong desire to stick to the Word with uncompromising fervor. However, reading this piece has been disturbing and has brought much grief to my heart as to how organized churches can easily cover up abuses, and under the guise of righteousness, we practice church discipline in a way that ends up hurting the victim over the perpetrator of egregious sins.

I do think this is a warning to us as part of the Universal Body of Christ to take heed of how we treat victims of abuse, take their reports seriously so that they can be safe and protected. The Church in its Apostolic and Heavenly function ought to be a place of healing, a sanctuary for the broken, and not a place of fostering abuse. This piece written by Julie Roys does not seem to be coming from a place of slander, but from a place where documented evidence is presented about the abuse cover-up that happened in Grace Community Church. There is also a video of MacArthur publicly shaming the victim in this article as an act of Church Discipline according to Matthew 18.

The sad part about this story is that the husband was not the one disciplined for living in a way that is totally unregenerate in his lifestyle, portraying a level of godliness that denies the power thereof, and instead, the wife who wanted to separate from him to protect herself and her children was the one shamed publicly and disciplined by Dr. MacArthur. Please do not misunderstand me, I am not for divorce. However, there are circumstances where the threat to one's well-being is so dire that divorce seems to be the option in case the abuser's rage ends up killing someone. Perhaps a deep level of empathy should be employed before judging someone for a situation like this.

I hope we can pray for Dr. MacArthur that he will experience mercy, but also receive accountability for his actions in this case. But we also pray for the children and wife of this abuser that they may experience a restoration of heart, soul, mind, and strength in Christ Jesus our Lord through the power of His Holy Spirit. Often times we as believers put certain men on pedestals because of how their teachings have impacted our lives. Some may say that "Oh well no one is perfect" as if it gives that person a pass or "who are we to judge?" But the phrase "no one is perfect" can either be taken in one of two ways:

1. No one is perfect so we can just stay in our sins.
2. No one is perfect, but there is genuine repentance and growth.

Amen.

Your Servant in Christ's Name,

- Michael Liao
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https://julieroys.com/macarthur-shamed-excommunicated-mother-take-back-child-abuser/

EXCLUSIVE: John MacArthur Shamed, Excommunicated Mother for Refusing to Take Back Child Abuser
By Julie Roys

On August 18, 2002, prominent radio pastor and author, John MacArthur, took time during an evening service to address a grave matter at his 8,000-member Grace Community Church (GCC) in Sun Valley, California.

A woman at GCC was living in sin, MacArthur alleged. And though shaming her publicly was "sad,” MacArthur said it was necessary to maintain fidelity to God and His Word.

So, as men were distributing the elements for communion, MacArthur stated: "I want to mention a sad situation, a person who is unwilling to repent. And the church bears responsibility before God to be the instrument of discipline. . . . This is what the Lord wants. He wants discipline . . . to be put out of the church, to be publicly shamed, to be put away from fellowship. In this case it applies to Eileen Gray.”

According to MacArthur, Gray’s sin was that she had decided "to leave her husband, to grant no grace at all, to take the children, to go away, to forsake him.” This, MacArthur emphasized, meant rejecting "all the instruction and counsel of the elders, all instruction from the Word of God.”

MacArthur then encouraged the church to pray for Eileen and to "treat her as an unbeliever””for all we know, she may be.”

He also urged the church to pray for her husband, David Gray, who taught music and Bible to children at Grace Community Church (GCC) from 1994 to 2001. "Pray for David, for the sympathy and compassion and the lovingkindness of God to be his portion.”

MacArthur then invited the church to sing, "Amazing Grace.”

Today, David Gray is serving 21 years to life in a California prison for his 2005 convictions for aggravated child molestation, corporal injury to a child, and child abuse.

But at the time of Eileen’s shaming, Eileen had not yet reported her husband’s physical and mental abuse to police. (She was not yet aware of his sexual abuse.)

Instead, she had reported the abuse to elders and pastors at GCC.

Eileen also had not left her husband. In August 2002, Eileen was still living with her children in the Grays’ home about 1.5 miles from the church.

Eileen had, however, filed legal separation and restraining orders against David due to his repeated abuse of her and her children, as well as his alleged stalking and threats to kill them and himself. At the time of the shaming, Eileen had obtained a court order requiring that David’s visits with the children be monitored and restricting him from coming within 100 yards of Eileen.

As Eileen explained in an exclusive interview with The Roys Report, she went to GCC elders, hoping they would protect her and her children and get David professional help.

Instead, she says the church subjected her to spiritually abusive counseling and used church discipline to try and coerce her to take David back into the family’s home.

John MacArthur shames Eileen Gray on August 18, 2002: Video is in the article.

Eileen said Carey Hardy, a former GCC associate pastor and personal assistant to John MacArthur, told her she needed to model for her children how to "suffer for Jesus” by enduring David’s abuse.

The Roys Report repeatedly reached out to MacArthur and Hardy, who’s now senior pastor of Twin City Bible Church, for comment but they did not respond.

When Eileen refused to take David back, GCC sent her multiple letters over several months in 2001-2002, which she recently provided to The Roys Report. The letters threaten Eileen with church discipline if she fails to comply with the elders’ request to drop the protective order against David and take him back.

When the letters failed to change Eileen’s stance, John MacArthur publicly shamed Eileen twice””once in May 2002 and again in August 2002.

Eileen told The Roys Report that MacArthur never spoke with her before, during, or after the shamings.

In the months between her shamings, GCC members and staff repeatedly harassed and visited Eileen at home, urging her to obey the elders, according to Eileen and dozens of pages of court documents obtained by The Roys Report.

For all this time, Eileen has remained silent about her ordeal out of concern for her minor children. She added that she feared backlash from Christians in her community, who revere MacArthur and GCC.

But now, Eileen’s children are adults. And for the sake of vulnerable women and children at GCC””and at the many churches and institutions influenced by MacArthur””she’s speaking now.

Despite being mandated by California law to report child abuse, GCC never reported David Gray’s abuse to authorities, according to Nancy Nelson, a retired Los Angeles Police Department Detective (LAPD) who investigated David Gray’s case. Nelson told The Roys Report that Eileen Gray reported David Gray’s abuse to LAPD in 2003, leading to David’s trial and conviction in 2005.

In 2004, two staff pastors at GCC were written up by LAPD for their alleged mishandling of David Gray’s abuse.

Carey Hardy was charged with two misdemeanors””failing to report child abuse and intimidating a witness””Eileen Gray. The other pastor, Bill Shannon, who currently leads GCC’s biblical counseling ministry, was not charged but ordered to appear at a city attorney hearing.

Court records show Hardy’s case was "dismissed or not prosecuted” in February 2005.

The reason Hardy’s case was dismissed is not clear.

However, Dr. Albert Mohler, president of The Southern Baptist Seminary and current WORLD Magazine opinion editor, confirmed to The Roys Report that he wrote a paper for Hardy’s defense in 2004 at GCC’s request. The paper argued that Hardy should be exempt from reporting Gray’s abuse based on religious freedom””an argument Mohler said he would not make today.

"Daddy hurt me”
Eileen says David Gray emotionally and physically abused her and her children for years. But she didn’t realize the severity of his child abuse until May 10, 2001. That’s when Eileen woke up early in the morning to muffled cries and yelling, according to a transcript of Eileen’s testimony at David’s trial obtained by The Roys Report.

Eileen testified that she went to the living room of the family’s home, where she found David holding a belt and one of her children crying with disheveled hair. When confronted, David told Eileen that God had made him the authority and that his child "needs more pain,” Eileen testified.

Following the incident, this child walked with a limp, became very withdrawn, and began pulling hair out, according to Eileen’s testimony. Eileen added that when she asked her child what happened, her child simply said, "Daddy hurt me.”

But about a month later, this child told Eileen that David had repeatedly hit the child in the head with a toy and kicked the child, Eileen testified. Eileen added that the child said David had also put a sleeping bag over the child’s head. The battered child, and the Gray’s other children who witnessed the incident, claimed that their daddy was trying to kill them, Eileen testified.

The day after learning these details, Eileen found a lawyer and filed a legal separation and restraining order against David.

Eileen testified that she then met with GCC Pastor Bill Shannon and another GCC leader and told them about her husband’s abuse.

Eileen told The Roys Report that in this first meeting, Shannon did not offer to help. Instead, he accused Eileen of sinning by going to the law against a brother, Eileen said. Shannon added that the protective order violated 1 Corinthians 7:10, which instructs women not to separate from their husbands, Eileen testified.

However, two days after that meeting, Shannon met privately with David, and then the church arranged for Eileen to stay with a church family until the protective order went into effect. Eileen testified in court that as a condition of receiving this help from GCC, the church required her and David to attend marriage counseling with Carey Hardy.

Hardy has an M.Div. from The Master’s Seminary but no professional counseling credentials.

During the first counseling session, which included Shannon and Hardy, David admitted he kicked one of the couple’s children and tried to suffocate the child, Eileen testified. She added that David said it all happened "so fast,” and he didn’t know it was wrong in the moment.

In subsequent counseling sessions, David presented Hardy with a handwritten, four-page list of "sins” against Eileen and his children, Eileen said. On one of these pages obtained by The Roys Report, David admits he used a "belt & rod way too harshly””brutally” on a child. He also says he "tied up” and "locked up” the child and was not always "adequately dressed” in the child’s presence.

According to Eileen, Hardy refused to take or read David’s list.

The Roys Report reached out to Shannon and Hardy, specifically asking about these events, but they did not respond.

However, in an official court declaration in 2002 concerning Eileen’s legal separation from David Gray, Hardy stated: "I am of the opinion that Eileen simply doesn’t like David . . . and is using what she alleges to have happened with the children as leverage to put David out of their lives.”

Hardy accused Eileen in the declaration of having "a tendency to exaggerate” and exercising "faulty logic and irrational thinking.”

In contrast, Hardy said David Gray was "fairly laid back” and that after several monitored visits between David and his children, "our church concluded that monitors were not necessary.”

Nevertheless, in the summer of 2001, GCC decided not to renew David’s teaching contract with the church.

Eileen stated in an official court reply to Hardy’s declaration that Hardy and Shannon met with her to announce their decision to end David’s employment.

At that meeting, Shannon suggested sending David to Los Angeles Unified School District, Eileen testified. She added that when she objected because David was a child abuser, Shannon replied that since a "child abuse index” hadn’t been filed, David could still get a job teaching. Eileen testified that Shannon also stated that L.A. Unified never calls the church for a reference.

David Gray was hired by L.A. Unified School District in September 2001 and taught music to elementary school-aged children there until his arrest in 2004, according to a LAPD press release.

"Suffer like Jesus”
In her testimony at David Gray’s trial, Eileen stated that she repeatedly asked GCC to provide professional counseling for her and David. She testified she was told by GCC leaders that professional counseling is "worldly” and wrong.

Hardy counseled Eileen to forgive David "even if he wasn’t repentant,” Eileen testified. "He would teach me over and over ‘the threefold promise of forgiveness’ . . .” she stated, "where you act as though it never happened, and you never bring it up again, and you never tell anyone about it.”

This threefold promise is explained in detail in a booklet on forgiveness by John MacArthur, which is sold by MacArthur’s broadcast ministry, Grace to You.

Eileen also testified that Hardy urged her to allow David back into the family’s home and to model for the children how to "suffer for Jesus” by enduring David’s abuse. Eileen stated that she was willing to endure the abuse herself but was not willing to allow her children to be abused, so she refused.

With permission from all parties involved, Eileen recorded her counseling sessions with Hardy. Eileen shared the recordings with the pastor who officiated her wedding to David, Alvin B. Barber, Jr.””former pastor of Sunrise Bible Fellowship in Northern California. (Barber passed away in 2008.)

In a written declaration to a California Superior Court, Barber corroborated Eileen’s account.

"I have listened to one of the counseling sessions on tape between Carey Hardy, David, and Eileen and found that Eileen was being told to just accept her husband as he was and submit to him, even in spite of his admitted abuse of her and their children,” Barber wrote. "Thankfully Eileen has chosen the legal protection of herself and her children over the obvious intimidation and questionable counsel of Carey Hardy and Grace Community Church.”

In November 2001, Eileen wrote GCC and requested that the church remove her from its membership.

GCC denied Eileen’s request.

Letters, harassment, and stalking
On November 27, 2001, Carey Hardy sent Eileen a letter on behalf of GCC’s elders.

The elders "don’t automatically remove someone from membership when we believe that we have a responsibility to help that individual resolve issues in his/her life,” the letter stated. "In this situation, we definitely do believe that we should maintain our role in helping you and David reconcile. For that reason we are leaving your membership status intact.”

The letter adds "there are no longer sufficient reasons for the two of you to stay apart” and urges Eileen to "forgive David, allow him to move back home, and once again follow his leadership as Scripture teaches.”

It also states, "It is now time to trust God to use your marriage to David to make you more like Christ. This is a more significant level of trust than simply trusting God to change your husband. . . . It’s a crossroads related to your own relationship with the Lord, a crossroads in your relationship to your husband, and a crossroads related to your role as a mother.”

A letter from GCC on March 13, 2002 threatens Eileen with church discipline if she doesn’t change course.

"Since you are refusing to forgive David and allow him to return home where he can put biblical change into action, we are left with nothing to conclude but that you want something else besides what Scripture teaches,” the letter states.

". . . Though you are ignoring the shepherding role in your life that God requires from our church, we must still choose to follow the mandate of Matthew 18, verse 17, if you persist in preventing the restoration of your family.”

Matthew 18:17 says that if someone refuses to repent of his sin, the sin should be told to the church and the person treated like "a pagan or tax collector.”

The letter from GCC also states that it "has become obvious . . . that David is not a ‘mental case’” and "doesn’t need a ‘psychological evaluation.’ He is a sinner who can, by God’s grace, change and grow.”

During the time she was receiving these letters from GCC, Eileen said David repeatedly threatened to kill her and her children and to take his own life.

David also stalked Eileen at home on numerous occasions between July 2001 and May 2002 in violation of his restraining order, according to court declarations by Eileen’s neighbors, Carlos Tobar and Wilbur Rodriguez.

Eileen said she also received pressure by GCC members to obey GCC’s elders.

On April 25, 2002, Eileen said she received a surprise, late-night visit from a couple at GCC””George Bonsangue, who was a student at The Master’s Seminary, and his wife, Priscilla.

In an account for David Gray’s trial, Eileen wrote that Bonsangue and his wife entered her home at 10:15 p.m. and told her she was "in sin” because she had separated from her husband and had left the church without the elders’ permission. When Eileen told the couple about David’s abuse, Bonsangue and his wife reportedly offered to take Eileen’s children so Eileen could "obey the biblical mandates for marriage,” Eileen wrote.

She added that when she refused their offer, George Bonsangue became "angrier” and the couple left her home around midnight.

The Roys Report spoke with Priscilla and George Bonsangue, who’s currently pastoring Grace Baptist Church in Wilmington, California.

The couple confirmed they went to Eileen’s house late one night in April 2002.

"We just wanted to help (David and Eileen) reconcile,” Priscilla said. She added that she had babysat the Gray’s children and never saw anything that made her suspicious of David. "I wondered if . . . she imagined (the abuse) or was just making things up, or just mad at him.”

The Bonsangues said they don’t remember offering to take Eileen’s kids or mentioning anything about Eileen fulfilling "the biblical mandates for marriage.” Priscilla said it was just "an understood thing” that Priscilla was willing to babysit, if needed.

Five days after the Bonsangues’ 2002 visit, GCC sent another letter to Eileen.

"You have yet to provide any biblical justification for your anger towards your husband,” the letter stated, "and you still reject the counsel of the elders and others who are concerned for your well-being.”

". . . If you desire to meet with us to express your willingness to repent, we stand ready to help. If we don’t hear from you in this regard, however, we must proceed with the Lord’s instructions and convey your sin to the church at the next communion service on Sunday May 19, 2002.”

On that date, John MacArthur reportedly shamed Eileen in front of his congregation for the first time.

The next morning, Eileen said a mother of one of David’s students at GCC came to her house upset because MacArthur had reportedly stated that "death may follow” Eileen’s shaming.

At the time, Eileen was being treated for cancer.

Eileen said the woman was "shocked” by MacArthur’s statements and didn’t agree with them.

Over the next three months, the pressure and harassment from GCC members and staff intensified, according to Eileen and a declaration by Eileen’s neighbor.

On May 21, 2002””two days after the shaming””David came to Eileen’s house with two men in a blue Honda, Wilbur Rodriguez wrote in his declaration.

According to Eileen, Carlos Tobar, who also witnessed the incident, recorded the Honda’s license plate number, which was registered to a car driven by Hardy’s personal assistant at GCC. Eileen said she called the assistant soon afterwards, and he admitted to watching her house with David.

The Roys Report tried to locate the assistant for comment but was unsuccessful.

About a week after the shaming, Eileen said a close friend””affectionately called "Aunt Donna” by her children””came to her home. The friend had been given a key to Eileen’s house, but reportedly returned the key and told Eileen she wouldn’t be back.

"She told me to obey the elders,” Eileen told The Roys Report. "It was heartbreaking. All of it’s heartbreaking. She was the last person I thought would say, ‘I don’t even care.’ . . . She didn’t say that but that was her demeanor.”

Eileen said many other GCC members delivered a similar message, either by letter or in person.

In a handwritten letter dated June 5, 2002, obtained by The Roys Report, the wife of a current professor at The Master’s Seminary wrote: "I know it must be very difficult to do what the elders at Grace Community Church ask you to do, and I pray that you will joyfully submit to their leadership . . . It is what the Bible asks of you, Eileen.”

The woman also urged Eileen to reunite with her husband and submit to him, stating, "Even if David is sinning or is not a believer, this is still your spiritual duty.”

On August 8, 2002, Eileen received another letter from GCC.

"(I)n spite of the failures on David’s part as a husband and a father, it has become increasingly apparent that the greatest reason for the turmoil in the lives of your children, in the life of your husband, and in your own life is your refusal to forgive David, to support him in his attempts to change his thinking and behavior, and to reconcile with him.”

The letter states, "(T)he elders have concluded that you have no genuine desire to see your family restored.” It adds that GCC would announce publicly at an upcoming service that Eileen was being been removed from fellowship.

The evening of August 18, 2002, MacArthur preached a sermon with dire warnings about the severity of God’s discipline. The sermon is still posted online.

"(S)ometimes the punishment can be so severe that the person dies,” MacArthur stated in the sermon. "In the Corinthian church, there were some people who were weak and some were sick and some were dead because their sins were manifest at the Lord’s Table, remember that?”

Then, before administering communion and shaming Eileen, MacArthur urged his listeners to confess their sins so they "won’t suffer the discipline.”

Excerpt of MacArthur’s Aug. 18, 2002, sermon before Eileen’s shaming: Second video is in the same link

Eileen, who attended the service, said she felt comforted by Jesus throughout the entire ordeal.

"He bore the shaming with me,” she said. "I felt I wasn’t alone. And I felt very triumphant because (MacArthur) lies. The whole thing was lies.”

A few weeks later, a Los Angeles court granted Eileen a legal separation from David Gray. With her husband’s consent, she moved 500 miles away from GCC to her hometown and a church that welcomed her into fellowship.

The next year, Eileen learned that David had not only physically, emotionally, and verbally abused her children, but had sexually abused them, as well. She then reported her husband’s abuse to LAPD.

Even then, GCC did not defend and support Eileen, but instead rallied behind her husband.

The Roys Report will describe the rest of Eileen’s story in a follow-up article to be released shortly.

Correction: The original version of this article stated that Shannon and Hardy were arrested for failing to report child abuse and intimidating a witness. The LAPD report obtained by TRR says the two were "cleared by arrest,” which means they were either arrested, ordered to appear at a city hearing, or ordered to appear at a court hearing. Shannon was ordered to appear at a city hearing, but not charged. Hardy was charged and ordered to appear in court.

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Lysa Mar 21, 2022


Thank you for the whole article, I've been keeping up with this on Twitter. It's amazing (or sad) that men respond to Julie Roys as a nosey "woman" who should mind her own business, even though the husband is now in prison!!

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hulsey Mar 21, 2022

Julie Roys is a 'fault-finder' and I think when all the truth comes out she will be found a liar just like when she slanderously accused him of living luxuriously off the gifts of the church.

Articles like this don't belong on SI.

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Platy Mar 21, 2022

When I first saw this post the first thing I wanted to know is if she is pro LGBTQ+ or feminist/liberal.

Apparently she has a book on amazon about rediscovering the feminine side of woman or something like that. She is also a preacher. Please click on the preview of the book and you will see that there are plenty of reasons for her to hate John MacArthur. She states in the book preview that she has been angry and resentful in the past because of the restrictions of women in the fundamental church and that she regretted/hated being a woman.

So the critic's own position/viewpoints should be considered here to rule out any biases that she may have against MacArthur and apparently there is plenty of room for her to have a natural dislike/hatred for John MacArthur. She is a woman preacher that cannot submit to scripture whereas John MacArthur has a high view of scripture (sola scriptura).

Again read the preview of her book on Amazon and see for yourself what kind of mindset she has.

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Platy Mar 21, 2022

Another thing to consider is consistency. I can post plenty of videos that show that John MacArthur is not what he is portrayed to be in this article.

One example, if you look up on youtube "Lecture 1 Fundamentals Of Expository Preaching" MacArthur states that he has zero authority in the church and tells the students that as a pastor they have zero authority in the church. The only authority he has is one based on the principle of sola scriptura. That is around the 5 to 10 minute mark of the video.

I would count this article as slander by a liberal woman who has some serious issues submitting to scripture.

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savannah Mar 21, 2022

I will only provide the following info on this case against John MacArthur...

Whatever happened, happened over 20 years ago. It's a 20+ year old case.

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MichaelLiao Mar 21, 2022

Brother Jeremy and Platy,

Grace to you and peace from our Lord. I pray that you're both doing well at this time. I pray that my response to what you have written would be seasoned with His grace as I seek to offer an alternative perspective.

Psychological Relationship between Media and Viewership

As someone who was a student of broadcasting journalism in college, there are often elements of the psychological relationship between media and viewership/readers that aren't usually brought up in these conversations. The media depends on viewers and knows how to play to a certain demographic based on worldview, bias, the whole nine yards. Without viewership, the media cannot survive. The media puts out viewpoints, but it's also up to the viewer in their own presuppositions what they choose to listen to. Media is responsible for what they put out, viewers are responsible for what they take in.

This comes to my main point: I don't know whether she has an ax to grind with MacArthur. If she does, she must deal with God on that part. However, even if her motives are considered impure, I do not believe that actually negates the evidence and videos that are presented in the article. Having a chip on one's shoulder does not diminish evidence. The letters that were sent from GCC to Eileen Gray states how she was treated. Being implored by the church to return to her husband (David Gray) who abused her, and abused her children either by belt or by suffocating one of the children using a bag over their head. Here is a man who was putting his family members in danger, and was legitimately convicted for child molestation and abuse. He is now serving an over 20-year sentence. And just recently he was denied parole (https://acrobat.adobe.com/link/review?uri=urn:aaid:scds:US:7b042340-e8f0-3fcc-b9bd-5ca1c5a58362#pageNum=1 ). But the Church defended David Gray, knew about the abuse as several counseling sessions between him and his wife were recorded at GCC, he confessed to the abuse, but the wife was deemed at fault for leaving him because she wanted to protect herself and her kids. Or the times when David Gray stalked and threatened to kill his wife and kids, that's not something to be joked around with and protection should be granted to the victim. When the perpetrator becomes the victim and the victim is seen as the perpetrator, that's when our sense of God's justice is warped.

Another example is when Ravi Zacharias was found to have not only exaggerated his academic credentials but also have sexually abused many women. The person who initially broke this story was Steve Baughman who happened to be an atheist. Now, for us Christians we may think, "Well, he is an atheist, he must hate God, he has it out for Ravi, he has a chip on his shoulder....etc." But what happened? All the allegations turned out to be true and most Christians have repudiated Ravi as a representative of Christ. RZIM has admitted to the public that this occurred. SermonIndex has removed his sermons on this site. But before then, most of us would've given the same churchy-talking points about the situation, "Oh, no man is perfect. Preachers have their shortcomings. Maybe the victim is lying. Let's pray for this man of God who in our eyes does no wrong." And what happens? The man we put on the pedestal becomes even more glorified and looked over. No accountability will ever be employed. We can say the media has it out for Christian preachers, or that a journalist is biased. But as someone who desires to be a journalist for the glory of God, I must say that whenever we say, "This person has a left-leaning bias, they're liberal, they hate God," aren't we engaging in our own bias? To accuse someone of bias is to be biased ourselves, and to think humans can be completely free of bias is a lie. I've seen it on the left and the right when they talk about each other. "I don't listen to the Liberal Press, they lie." My question to that is, "so then what media do you subscribe to then?" Obviously the Conservative Press. And the same goes for the conservative-hating liberal who says "I don't listen to Conservative Media," they obviously subscribe to a more left-leaning press. It's like when the Mayor of Toronto, Rob Ford, was guilty of smoking crack cocaine close to a decade ago, he kept saying that the Toronto Star was after him because of their left-leaning bias. Sure, they are more liberal. But was the story true? Yes. It's one thing to blame the media for making someone look bad, it's another thing when the person makes themselves look bad in front of the media. Hence, the Psychological Relationship between Media and Viewership. As I jokingly say, "If you're not listening to Anderson Cooper, Chris Cuomo, and Wolf Blitzer, you're probably listening to Tucker Carlson, Greg Gutfeld, and Ben Shapiro." Or vice-versa.

On a Theological and Ecclesiological Level

As someone who has studied Reformed Soteriology, I understand that a man who is genuinely converted to Christ is not just a person who is forgiven and justified (Romans 4:5, Romans 5:1, Romans 8:1). That man becomes regenerate (Ezekiel 26:25-27, John 3:3-8, Jeremiah 31:31-34, Romans 8:2), thereby making him a new creation. Old things have passed away, the new has come (2 Corinthians 5:17). You desire the things of God over the things of the flesh. That's just a fact. As Brother Paul Washer would put it, "Salvation is a supernatural work of God where God takes out the heart of stone and gives a heart of flesh. The sin that we once loved we now hate, and the righteousness we once hated we now esteem and love." I don't call myself Reformed anymore because I don't like having a label and my theology has evolved over the years, but these are the tenets of faith I still agree with to this day because of my own testimony of how the Lord has worked in my life. The only difference is I don't hold to the popular Reformed/Augustinian view that Romans 7 is about a person's struggle against sin, but about a man under the law and is most likely unregenerate.

This brings me to my second point: this story about Eileen Gray happened in a Reformed setting. If a man is habitually abusing his wife and children on an egregious level, shouldn't the church investigate and come in defense of the victim, question that man's salvation according to the Reformed Soteriology they have, and if he is unwilling to repent of his sins and abuse, then Matthew 18 applies to put him out of the church? Unfortunately in this situation, Matthew 18 was used in an abusive manner where the victim of the crime is deemed unregenerate for wanting to leave her husband in order to protect herself and her kids.

Delayed Justice

Some would say, well this case with Eileen Gray happened 20 years ago, much like what most Christians said about Ravi. "Oh, this happened years ago? It should be water under the bridge." But it's not water under the bridge. People's voices were shut up. Victims received no justice and still bear the hurt from their abusers. I mean I don't think we can say, "Oh the Residential Schools in Canada that had thousands of children buried under them, that was decades ago. The Catholic and Protestant Churches don't need to answer for that. All is forgiven." God forbid we should say that, lest we find ourselves on the wrong side of God's history and we as the congregants become the enablers of the abuser. Yes, here in Canada we recently dug up the graves in the Residential Schools and found thousands of children buried with unmarked graves. These children suffered abuse. Even though this happened decades ago, the Natives want answers and justice. Imagine your own child being abused by a religious institution, I'm sure you would want answers for your loved one, even if it takes years. Samsung for years denied that their factory workers were dying of cancer due to their chemicals, but only a few years ago decided to give compensation to the victims' families in South Korea. I don't mean to go on a tangent, but these are examples of delayed justice.

Conclusion

Going back to Julie Roy, I don't know what her motives are. But if the story is true, then sin must be exposed to the light for reproof, correction, and repentance. However, Julie has also gone after Bruxy Cavey for his recent Sexual Misconduct Allegations at The Meeting House Church in Oakville, Ontario. Now, I'm sure there is quite a number of people in this forum that don't agree with Bruxy's theology. I know I've found him to be off on some things. But I wouldn't be surprised if some conservative Christians would celebrate that report since Julie is somehow siding with their beliefs and theology. "AHA! See, I told you! Bruxy Cavey believes in some form of universalism or annihilationism. That's what led him down a road to heresy and now he fell into sexual sin. Hooray for my team!" Our biases are very telling by the way we respond to a news story. It's like when we say stuff like, "I hate the Washington Post because they're so liberal," but then they read an opinion piece from WP that fits their bias and go, "Wow, that was great!"

I hope I was able to clarify my position. I understand that maybe some will think this article doesn't belong here on SI because of Julie Roys alleged motives. However, the Church is the Expression of Light and that which is Heavenly. And in Light, there should be no darkness, no cover-ups of abuse, but Truth and Grace would shine in the midst of us. Watchman Nee once said, "Christ is the Head, and He is also the Body." May we live in light of honouring our Head by speaking the truth with love and bringing about justice, mercy, and healing for all who have been hurt by the church unjustly.

Your Servant in Jesus' Name

- Michael Liao

P
Platy Mar 21, 2022

Hi Michael,

There is political/cultural liberalism and then liberalism in the church. I should have stated it more clearly in my post but the kind of liberalism I was talking about is liberalism in the church that rejects scripture as the final authority.

From page 15 of "Evangelical Feminism: A New Path To Liberalism?" by Wayne Grudem:

"When I use the phrase "theological liberalism" I mean a system of thinking that denies the complete truthfulness of the Bible as the Word of God and denies the unique and absolute authority of the Bible in our lives. When I speak of "evangelical feminism" I mean a movement that claims that there are no unique leadership roles for men in marriage or in the church."

Since this isn't political liberalism this has nothing to do with the media or left/right wing politics (although there are similarities). Nor does it have anything to do with belittling women. Rather the central issue here is the denial of sola scriptura.

You are right we all have biases and in this case I favor John MacArthur not because he is a big name pastor but because he fiercely holds to the most important biblical doctrine which is sola scriptura (no bible no Christianity). On the other hand you have an individual who from the information I have seen has a rather low view of scripture and she stated in her book she was angry in the past due to restrictions put on her because of her gender.

I don't know the history between this woman and John MacArthur well but this looks like this isn't her first attempt to undermine him. My bias is toward those who have faithfully shown themselves to be on the side of God/truth.

sermonindex Mar 21, 2022

Julie Roys is a 'fault-finder' and I think when all the truth comes out she will be found a liar just like when she slanderously accused him of living luxuriously off the gifts of the church.

I agree with this estimation, we are not going to endorse or promote blogs like warren throckmorton or Julie Roys, what they are doing is not wholesome, biblical or right.

Discernment Blogging is not a spiritual gift or role in the Church.

I am going to lock this thread and ask that saints do not repost from these sites or other similar ones.

If we have a concern for a spiritual leader:

1) Pray for them.

2) Fast and pray.

3) personally approach them or elders with them privately with the concern.

4) never accuse an elder without seeking the Lord for them diligently and also as scripture says without 2 or 3 witnesses.

this thread is locked.

This discussion is locked.

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