God Knows All Things Past, Present and Future

God Knows All Things Past, Present and Future
BY STEPHEN CHARNOCK

God knows all things, whether they be possible, past, present, or future; whether they be things that he can do, but will never do, or whether they be things that he hath done, but are not now; things that are now in being, or things that are not now existing, that lie in the womb of their proper and immediate causes. If his understanding be infinite, he then knows all things whatsoever that can be known, else his understanding would have bounds, and what hath limits is not infinite, but finite. If he be ignorant of any one thing that is knowable, that is a bound to him, it comes with an exception, a but, God knows all things but this; a bar is then set to his knowledge. If there were anything, any particular circumstance in the whole creation or non-creation, and possible to be known by him, and yet were unknown to him, he could not be said to be omniscient; as he would not be Almighty if any one thing, that implied not a repugnancy to his nature, did transcend his power.

But what do the scriptures say...?
Nothing even close to this, in fact you can’t get through the first book before this ship gets torpedoed and sunk 🤷🏽”â™‚️

God knows all future things, all things to come. The differences of time cannot hinder a knowledge of all things by him, who is before time, above time, that is not measured by hours, or days, or years; if God did not know them, the hindrance must be in himself, or in the things themselves, because they are things to come: not in himself; if it did, it must arise from some impotency in his own nature, and so we render him weak; or from an unwillingness to know, and so we render him lazy, and an enemy to his own perfection; for, simply considered, the knowledge of more things is a greater perfection than the knowledge of a few; and if the knowledge of a thing includes something of perfection, the ignorance of a thing includes something of imperfection. The knowledge of future things is a greater perfection than not to know them, and is accounted among men a great part of wisdom, which they call foresight; it is then surely a greater perfection in God to know future things, than to be ignorant of them. And would God rather have something of imperfection than be possessor of all perfection? Nor doth the hindrance lie in the things themselves, because their futurition depends upon his will; for as nothing can actually be without his will, giving it existence, so nothing can be future without his will, designing the futurity of it. Certainly if God knows all things possible, which he will not do, he must know all things future, which he is not only able, but resolved to do, or resolved to permit. God’s perfect knowledge of himself, that is, of his own infinite power and concluding will, necessarily includes a foreknowledge of what he is able to do, and what he will do. Again, if God doth not know future things, there was a time when God was ignorant of most things in the world; for before the deluge he was more ignorant than after; the more things were done in the world, the more knowledge did accrue to God, and so the more perfection; then the understanding of God was not perfect from eternity, but in time; nay, is not perfect yet, if he be ignorant of those things which are still to come to pass; he must tarry for a perfection he wants, till those futurities come to be in act, till those things which are to come, cease to be future, and begin to be present. Either God knows them, or desires to know them; if he desires to know them and doth not, there is something wanting to him; all desire speaks an absence of the object desired, and a sentiment of want in the person desiring: if he doth not desire to know them, nay, if he doth not actually know them, it destroys all providence, all his government of affairs; for his providence hath a concatenation of means with a prospect of something that is future: as in Joseph’s case, who was put into the pit, and sold to the Egyptians in order to his future advancement, and the preservation both of his father and his envious brethren. If God did not know all the future inclinations and actions of men, something might have been done by the will of Potiphar, or by the free-will of Pharoah, whereby Joseph might have been cut short of his advancement, and so God have been interrupted in the track and method of his designed providences. He that hath decreed to govern man for that end he hath designed him, knows all the means before, whereby he will govern him, and therefore hath a distinct and certain knowledge of all things; for a confused knowledge is an imperfection in government; it is in this the infiniteness of his understanding is more seen than in knowing things past or present; his eyes are a flame of fire (Rev. 1:14), in regard of the penetrating virtue of them into things impenetrable by any else. (Stephen Charnock)

I wish Stephen Charnock would write a dissertation on how bored God must be.

EDIT: would have written- since he’s been dead for a few centuries.

May grace and peace abound towards you and be multiplied 🙏🏻

You said,” God knows all future things, all things to come. The differences of time cannot hinder a knowledge of all things by him,"

God said,” And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him"

You said,” God knows all future things, all things to come. The differences of time cannot hinder a knowledge of all things by him,"

God said,” And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years"

You said,” God knows all future things, all things to come. The differences of time cannot hinder a knowledge of all things by him,"

God said,” And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them"

You said,” God knows all future things, all things to come. The differences of time cannot hinder a knowledge of all things by him,"

God said,” Then God said to Noah "I HAVE DECIDED to put an end to every creature, for the earth is filled with wickedness BECAUSE OF THEM; therefore I am going to destroy them along with the earth." (emphasis added)

You said,” Nor doth the hindrance lie in the things themselves, because their futurition depends upon his will; for as nothing can actually be without his will, giving it existence, so nothing can be future without his will, designing the futurity of it”

Jesus said, " "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I WANTED TO gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, BUT YOU WERE NOT WILLING! (emphasis added)

You said,” Nor doth the hindrance lie in the things themselves, because their futurition depends upon his will; for as nothing can actually be without his will, giving it existence, so nothing can be future without his will, designing the futurity of it”

The scriptures say,”The LORD saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time.”

You said,” Nor doth the hindrance lie in the things themselves, because their futurition depends upon his will; for as nothing can actually be without his will, giving it existence, so nothing can be future without his will, designing the futurity of it”

The scriptures say,” The LORD regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled”

Savannah, i hold nothing but love for you and S. Charnock and have no quarrel with either of you, yet ; yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged

At the end of chapter one of Genesis we find, " And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good”
Yet in chapter two we find, " And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.”

This is the first "change” we find in scripture, from "good” to "not good” and God provides remedy -

In the sixth chapter of Genesis we find, in the first seven verses, the scriptures to record/declare/demonstrate the full declination of Gods emotion over His approval regarding His creation, as a result of mans rebellion- itself causing God to "change” His mind again, resulting in the destruction of all that He had previously declared "good” yet now was readily observed and declared to be "evil”.

From beginning to end the scriptures do consistently illustrate the phenomenon of God changing His mind regarding our (mans) unwillingness to do His will,... to yield our lives surrendering our will and exchanging it for His.

As if the first book wasn’t enough... take a most famous case where God pleaded with Israel to see Him as their King yet they demanded an earthly one .... tho He being full of integrity warned them overtly as to the end of that which they sought, nonetheless He acquiesced and anointed the best among them to fill the role tho in spite of Gods anointing the result was death . Yet again, God sought and found one in whom His heart might be known to His people, tho even there we still find that sin crept in and the wages were death.

Further still, the term "if” is inescapably present through the scriptures set forth as a condition of man to humble himself in order to receive Gods grace,... yet the scriptures solemnly record the inevitable result of those whom "were not willing” .
If mans will were not capable of thwarting Gods will, then there would be no need for discipline much less punishment.
Wether Nineveh's repentance, or Israel’s lack of repentance both are inescapably presented by scripture to be conditional, that is not even a remote possibility according to the above quotes by S. Charnock🤷🏽”â™‚️

I submit to you all that when the scriptures state the Lord knows the end from the beginning that has been sorely twisted and divorced from the whole council of the word- for do the scriptures not also declare "every seed will bear fruit after its own kind” and "God is not mocked, as a man soweth so shall he also reap” ?
When, even before it is sown, God knows the end of that seed from the beginning,.... wether it be of the spirit and sown into His kingdom or of the flesh and sown into this world. Yet many twist the words of the prophet as they do other scriptures as though they have formed a concept of God and are attempting to fit/force the scriptures into their preconceived notion,... and where there are plain, straightforward verses that clearly demonstrate the inconsistencies of their concepts and the revelation of scripture, they repent not !?? Rather they cling desperately to their own ideas and they become idols unto them much like Israel refusing the counsel of the prophet Samuel and sought the idolatry of an earthly king 😔

As stated before, the church has a patently Greek concept of God, much like a zeus type character with a Jesus t-shirt on completely devoid of the revelation of Gods character as revealed by the scriptures. The two are simply incompatible and we (church) just like first century Israel, must repent else we will likewise perish -

The scriptures record God saying,” I know my plans for you” and "IF” ....
IF YOU WILL harken unto my voice, THEN I WILL ....
the onus is and always was,... on us, The onus IS ON US- full stop.

He, the LORD has already declared, demonstrated and recorded His will for us,... and it is we who lack the belief and faith to lay hold of the promise and not because He hasn't already furnished us with everything pertaining to life and godliness but because we refuse to come into the light,... "BUT, YOU WERE NOT WILLING”.

Romans 8:11 but IF the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For IF YE live after the flesh, ye shall die: but IF YE through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, YE shall live. (emphasis added)

How could it be made more clear?
Let he who has eyes see and ears hear 🙏🏻

You border on blasphemy Todd. Taking God's Name in vain by even making such a suggestion that God is bored, because His Being can be no other than Omniscient in His Perfection of this attribute as well as every other as regards Him.

You may laugh now, but the time will surely come when you fall at His feet as dead and proclaim woe is me placing your hand over your mouth as did Job.

You also denigrate this holy saint of God whom Christ loved and used mightily to glorify His Name on the earth.

It'd be well for you if you'd tread more lightly upon holy matters Todd.

It’s called rhetoric. I think you need to contemplate more the end result of the position Charnock espouses. God is indeed not bored. That’s because Charnock is dead wrong.

You come to the conclusion that you do because you compare God to a man.

You judge The Infinite and Eternal One by your own finite and temporal being.

Your thoughts of God are on a very low par as evidenced in this thread not to mention other threads.

If Charnock’s view of this minute meticulous sovereignty of God is correct, no true relationship with Him is possible. We are simply actors in a pre-ordained script.

Wow. The omniscience of God would not even make it on my list if possible debate topics because it is so clear in Scripture. God not only knows everything that was, is, and will be but He also knows counterfactuals! All of this is clearly spelled out in the Scriptures. It is plainly obvious. This is why robust theology is necessary.

Psalms 139

God’s Perfect Knowledge of Man
For the Chief Musician. A Psalm of David.

O LORD, You have searched me and known me.
You know my sitting down and my rising up;
You understand my thought afar off.
You comprehend my path and my lying down,
And are acquainted with all my ways.
For there is not a word on my tongue,
But behold, O LORD, You know it altogether.
You have hedged me behind and before,
And laid Your hand upon me.
Such knowledge is too wonderful for me;
It is high, I cannot attain it.
Where can I go from Your Spirit?
Or where can I flee from Your presence?
If I ascend into heaven, You are there;
If I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there.
If I take the wings of the morning,
And dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea,
Even there Your hand shall lead me,
And Your right hand shall hold me.
If I say, "Surely the darkness shall fall on me,”
Even the night shall be light about me;
Indeed, the darkness shall not hide from You,
But the night shines as the day;
The darkness and the light are both alike to You.
For You formed my inward parts;
You covered me in my mother’s womb.
I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
Marvelous are Your works,
And that my soul knows very well.
My frame was not hidden from You,
When I was made in secret,
And skillfully wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed.
And in Your book they all were written,
The days fashioned for me,
When as yet there were none of them.
How precious also are Your thoughts to me, O God!
How great is the sum of them!
If I should count them, they would be more in number than the sand;
When I awake, I am still with You.
Oh, that You would slay the wicked, O God!
Depart from me, therefore, you bloodthirsty men.
For they speak against You wickedly;
Your enemies take Your name in vain.
Do I not hate them, O LORD, who hate You?
And do I not loathe those who rise up against You?
I hate them with perfect hatred;
I count them my enemies.
Search me, O God, and know my heart;
Try me, and know my anxieties;
And see if there is any wicked way in me,
And lead me in the way everlasting.

JFW,

Please prove the following statement:

"As stated before, the church has a patently Greek concept of God.”

I don’t see it, but perhaps you can explain how me reading the Scriptures and coming to conclusions has been hijacked by Greek philosophers who have been dead for thousands of years.

TMK,

Please define "minute meticulous sovereignty.”

This thread has me thinking. My wife and I are finishing up another journey through the Old Testament. During our morning Bible reading times, I have been reading the entire Bible -- book by book, chapter by chapter, verse by verse -- aloud. My wife reads her Bible alongside as read aloud. This is our third journey in a row that we are nearly completed. It has been a wonderful series of experiences.

Throughout our most recent journey through the Old Testament, I have been struck by how many references there are to the Name of God.

We read the Bible in English. Many people are fully aware that when they read the word "the LORD" (with "LORD" in all capital letters), it is an English representation of the Name of God. This Name is, translated into English, YHWH. It has no vowels. In Hebrew (including proto-Hebrew), it is literally four Hebrew letters -- yodh, he, waw, and he. It is often referred to as the "Tetragrammaton."

While this Name for God (often pronounced "Yahweh," "Jehovah" or some other similar pronunciation) appears early in the Scriptures, it's historic origin in terms of Scripture recitation goes to Exodus chapter 3. This is the place in Scripture where God speaks to Moses from the burning (well, non-burning even though its aflame) bush.

There are arguments as to how the Name is pronounced. Apparently, during the Babylonian captivity (or possibly thereafter), the story goes that the Israelites in captivity didn't want to take the Name in vain. So, they preferred to say "Adonai" ("my Lord"), "HaShem" ("The Name") or "Elohim" ("God") anytime the Name appeared in Hebrew scripture (or even in conversation). Eventually, throughout the diaspora, the pronunciation was (supposedly) lost.

I actually disagree with this widely accepted history regarding the loss of pronunciation. The Masoretes added vowel markers in what culminated as the Masoretic text of Hebrew scriptures. Moreover, the shortened form of the Name appears within many Hebrew names. For instance, Elijah is literally "Eli Yah" (or "my god is Yah"). Moreover, the word "hallelujah" (or "halalu yah") is literally the Hebrew imperative phrase "[you shall] praise Yah" (or "praise ye Yah"). See Psalm 150:1.

When John had his Revelation, he heard voices in Heaven crying out "Hallelujah" (Revelation 19). This reference in Revelation is particularly important because it is the only direct inclusion of the shortened form of the Name (i.e., "Yah") in the New Testament.

In terms of pronunciation, John was a Jew in the 1st Century. He didn't translate that word into Greek -- but retained the Hebrew phonetic pronunciation transliterated into Greek. He retained the Hebrew pronunciation. It's interesting to me because that word is essentially the same pronunciation in virtually every language (even if it has often lost its meaning).

So, as we have been reading, I keep reflecting on the references to the "Name." It is the "Temple of his Name." God would save Jerusalem "for His Name's sake." "If my people who are called by my Name." It's important from Genesis through Malachi.

Okay. So, what does this have to do with this discussion?

I kept going back to Exodus chapter 3. This is when God tells Moses what His Name is. Moses was concerned that the Hebrews might ask who the "God of your fathers" might be. So, Moses asked the LORD what he should tell them. God answered, "I AM that I AM." He told them to tell them, "I AM has sent me to you" (Exodus 3:14-15).

The Hebrew word's phoneticized pronunciation for this in the Masoretic text is "ha Ya" (whereas the "ha" is pronounced more like a "high"). In the Strong's concordance, this would be found as reference H1961.

This is where I think that it fits into this conversation. This "ha Ya" doesn't simply mean "I AM." It can also mean "I WAS" and "I WILL BE." In fact, some Bible translations include a footnote to Exodus 3:14 that shows this. The "Ya" here is understood to be the shortened form of the Name (i.e., "Yah" as in "Yahweh" or "Yahova"). In fact, the root of this phrase is literally "I EXIST" -- past, present and future.

This certainly resembles what we also read in Revelation 1:4 -- referring to God as "who was, who is and who is to come." It is also found in verse 8 (and there are even several worship songs with verses based upon this opening benediction from Revelation 1).

This eternal nature of God shouldn't surprise us. After all, Hebrews states rather clearly that "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever" (Hebrews 13:8). The concept of eternity is not an ancient past, the current present and the endless future. For God, it is an eternal state of "now." There is no time (or time limits) to God. This is literally the meaning of His Name.

In fact, I was recently reading some studies about the possible "first spoken words" for human beings. Linguistic anthropologists were mostly suggesting some form of "ma," "da," pa" or "wa" -- because they are cross-cultural references to mother, father and water/food. However, I decided to look at the Bible for the REAL answer.

We know what Genesis chapter 1 states about creation. "In the beginning..." However, the first actual spoken words recorded in the Bible are found in Genesis 1:3: "Let there be light."

I went back to the Masoretic text to see this in Hebrew. After all, I think that there is a strong argument that proto-Hebrew was the first language on Earth (and there are several reasons why).

The Hebrew phonetic for the phrase "Let there be light" is "ha Ya ore."

Does that sound familiar? The "or" is Hebrew for "light." However, the "ha Ya" for "Let there be" is the same root used in Exodus 3:14 for "I AM."

The interesting thing to me is that we immediately remember what Jesus said to his disciples: "I am the light of the world" (John 8:12). We also know that John wrote that, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (John 1:1). It goes on to immediately call the Word "light" (i.e., "the Light of men" and "the Light shines in the darkness" in verses 4-5).

In physics, we learn about physical light. It is often referred to as the "universal constant" or the "universal speed limit." Einstein pointed out that nothing in the universe could exceed the speed of light. In other words, there is almost an eternal nature to it. Yet, in a spiritual sense, Jesus is the Light of the world -- the Light of all creation.

I fully embrace the notion of the omnipotent AND omniscient nature of God. This is despite the fact that my mind (or this side of the "glass darkly") cannot comprehend it (John 1:5). The eternal nature -- and knowledge -- of God is found in His very Name. The Name of the LORD invokes this eternal constant -- that the LORD was, is and is to come. There is nothing -- including no thought -- that can be hidden from the light of his face. He makes known the end from the beginning (Isaiah 46:10).

Now, I won't try to apply this into endless debates over the nature of salvation -- because I believe strongly that God can choose people who can walk away from him (the captivity is pretty solid anecdotal evidence of people who are "called by my Name" turning away and even going toward idolatry).

So, I won't debate the merit or extent by which the omniscience of the LORD may or may not subvert human choice. I just know that we are given the imperative to "Choose you this day whom you will serve..." However, the omniscience of God is beyond debate. God is eternal and, throughout eternity, knows everything.

The LORD bless you and keep you! May His face shine on us all.

Thanks, Christopher! I really enjoyed reading your post!

//Please define "minute meticulous sovereignty.”//

Charnock sums it up well.

You also must deeply consider the implications of what this means, and you will understand why I think, if it is true, God is the most supremely bored Being.

If I knew everything in advance, including the supposed "free will” actions of my creation, how is this a true relationship? If you knew in advance everything a loved one is going to say, do, or think, how is that a true relationship? "Ho hum” is all that it is.

I agree that God knows all there is to know.

Please prove the following statement:

"As stated before, the church has a patently Greek concept of God.”

I don’t see it, but perhaps you can explain how me reading the Scriptures and coming to conclusions has been hijacked by Greek philosophers who have been dead for thousands of years.

Havok,
Not Greek philosophers, satan is the hijacker, greek philosophy was merely the means to shift the focus from the internal back to the external...
Which in many ways mirrors the external purification practices of Judaism, in that the focus was on the appearance of perfection but devoid of purity of heart - Paul remarks and warns in Acts 20, of grievous wolves and men speaking perverse things drawing the disciples away unto themselves.
There was a constant attack on the early church by Roman, hoping to assimilate them and ultimately did so around the time of Augustine where we find the "church” as a state institution shortly after having been persecuted for 300yrs...

Greek/Roman history and culture, philosophy and mythology (concept of God) had permanently replaced the Hebrew version by the early-mid 400’s
in all but a few cases.

You, me, we all were taught that to conceive of a proper concept of God, the first principle is omniscience followed closely by omnipotence, omnipresent, an all seeing and knowing and in complete control of everything else it just wouldn’t be what "God” is.....
like you and everyone else I know, I accepted this premise and it wasn’t until I became a disciple and really began to attempt to follow the Jesus of the Bible that my study of scripture got serious enough to notice that the God of the Bible wasn’t at all like I had imagined and while there is great comfort in believing in such a "God” the truth is, that’s not at all the way He presents Himself in the very first book containing the story of creation. Here we find quite a different concept that we sometimes try to (I did) force fit our idea/concept onto the scriptures and/or force fit the scriptures into our little boxed view of "God”. This invariably leads to massive holes that require allot of theological and doctrinal caulk to fill. But if we love the truth, we will accept it regardless of the consequences. Not only in Genesis but in every book where God is named, and in the one He’s not ;), this same distinctly Hebraic concept of a Holy and deeply intimate God is at once set against our primarily Hellenistic concept itself being an aggregate of intersecting cultural beliefs from the ancient kingdoms, the potted meat of paganism.
Today these concepts have risen to the forefront of "modern Christianity” unencumbered much like yeast in freshly kneaded dough.....the tares amongst the wheat, virtually inseparable. An extreme example of Greek philosophy in the church was the popular "cheap grace” movement where the foundation of unbiblical doctrines was exposed underneath that had remained covered for centuries, tho ultimately fomenting the current form of "narcissistic Christianity” we see today. In every case where this leaven has taken hold, there is also found a "body” not under the headship of Christ, rather under the headship of the church and it’s creeds and confessions.
For example, we may say sola scripture but when the scriptures raise a standard, we retreat to our preconceived notions where our conscience can be comforted, not by the Holy one of Israel but by the "god” of our imagination wearing a Jesus t-shirt, this is idolatry plain and simple.
Again this (greek) concept of an all knowing deity whom controls everyone’s actions giving only the appearance of free will is completely divorced and unreconcilable to the verses I put forth from the first few chapters of Genesis and it only gets worse from there... the books of Jeremiah are an eternal stalwart standing against this imported concept🤷🏽”â™‚️

The intertwining of Hellenistic Greek into Jewish culture and religion had already begun well before Jesus came and according to scripture will be so when He returns, hence the narcissistic Laodiceans (Rev 3).
This influence is historically observed and recorded.

Much like how our medical schools are heavily influenced by big pharma, likewise our seminaries are heavily influenced by big church and as the scriptures record,... the outer court was defiled by the gentiles -

If God does not know the future then how were the old testament prophets able to prophesy/write down events before they happened? How does one reconcile this?

What about so called modern day prophets? If there is no foreknowledge of God then why support them?

Isaiah 41:21-24 - [21] Produce your cause, saith the LORD; bring forth your strong reasons, saith the King of Jacob.[22] Let them bring them forth, and shew us what shall happen: let them shew the former things, what they be, that we may consider them, and know the latter end of them; or declare us things for to come. [23] Shew the things that are to come hereafter, that we may know that ye are gods: yea, do good, or do evil, that we may be dismayed, and behold it together. [24] Behold, ye are of nothing, and your work of nought: an abomination is he that chooseth you.

Isaiah 44:6-8 - [6] Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. [7] And who, as I, shall call, and shall declare it, and set it in order for me, since I appointed the ancient people? and the things that are coming, and shall come, let them shew unto them. [8] Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

Isaiah 46:9-11 - [9] Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, [10] Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: [11] Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

TMK,

" I agree that God knows all there is to know.”

Regarding the future, what would be some things that God does not know? Now, I understand that God does not know impossible things such as what a circle with corners would look like. I’m not looking for specifics of course, because if we could know the specifics then we would know more than God. But just in general, theoretically, what would be some things that God has no knowledge of, at least at this current present time?

JFW,

" Again this (greek) concept of an all knowing deity whom controls everyone’s actions giving only the appearance of free will…”

I appreciate your response. While I still fail to see how the above description, while definitely not how God works, is even remotely a Greek concept of God. In fact, I don’t know of any Greek gods that are anything like this at all. I know of no Greek philosophers who believed the above statement. There are only two groups of people who I know who use the above statement: the hyper Calvinist, and the arminian claiming that anybody who is reformed is a hyper Calvinist.

Of course I’m not here to debate Arminianism versus calvinism, or to decide where exactly the Bible lands on that spectrum, if it lands there at all. The discussion we were having is about who our God is. This is a far more important topic, because what we don’t want to have happen is to discover that we don’t worship the same God. I honestly do want to avoid that accusation coming from me or coming from anyone else.

So I have a few questions. The first question is regarding the three Omnis. Do you believe that God is not everywhere present in all of creation? Generally, I’m merely asking the location and boundaries of God.

The second question is this: understanding that God is not going to desire to do something that makes absolutely no sense such as making a square circle, desiring to sin, or make a rock so heavy that he can’t lift it”” Do you believe that the Bible demonstrates a limit to the power of God?

The last question is this: are there any truths Past, present or future”” Future dealing specifically the end result of eternity future”” That God has not yet learned, does not currently know, or is unsure of exactly how they will pan out?

I am not trying to spring a trap on you, you’ve already declared that you don’t believe in omnipresent, omniscient, or omnipotence. I’m just trying to figure out what in the world you do believe about these things. Thank you in advance for answering these questions.

As discussed before, a person who holds to Open Theism says that the future does not exist *now*”” even for God. God has every possible fact and knows the heart of man and has all data available to Him, but He does not know the future because it simply does not exist now. Therefore this would be no different than saying God does not know non- existent persons. The reason I gave the somewhat simplistic example of the square circles is simple to show it is no assault in God’s omniscience to say he does not know impossible things. If the future does not exist NOW it is impossible to know it, even for God.

Now I realize it may sound like I hold to Open Theism. I admit I think it solves certain problems without denigrating God one whit if true. I am just not 100% convinced that the future does not exist now.

But I am convinced of one thing- we are not puppets and God is not a puppet master. Charnock’s view must ultimately lead to this conclusion.