Eternal Security – For All Who Follow Jesus by Zac Poonen

One of the last promises in the epistles is that the Lord "is ABLE to keep us from falling” (Jude 24). This is true - the Lord is certainly able to keep us from falling. But if we do not yield ourselves completely to Him, He will not be able to keep us from falling - for He never forces His will on anyone.

Amen.

Every disciple of Jesus who is following Him is eternally secure.

COMMENT:

The Lord Jesus Himself laid down this requirement for discipleship:

John 15:8 ”“
My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples.

John 15:5 ”“
I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.

Therefore, we are disciples of Christ only if we are bearing much fruit by constantly abiding in Christ and Christ in us

Can a believer be cut off?

These are the words of Christ Himself:

John 15:6 ”“
If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.

Comment:
These branches that are thrown away were believers because only believers can be branches in Christ, the Vine. But they stopped abiding in Christ.

Therefore, only those who are bearing fruit by constantly abiding in Christ and Christ in them have eternal security.

Paul says that he fears that Satan will deceive us and draw us away from simple devotion to Christ, even as Satan deceived Eve. Eve was in paradise and was deceived by Satan ”“ and was driven out of paradise by God.

Eve was deceived because she was joined to Adam who was as weak and unstable as she was.

Adam was not a rock of salvation for Eve and she could be moved.

The only way not to sin is to be joined to Christ and be in Him.

1 Cor. 1:30 ”“
But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,

Christ alone is the Rock of our salvation and in Him alone we will not be moved.

The Lord Jesus said, "Apart from Me you can do nothing."

"Nothing” means absolutely nothing.

It includes not being able to resist Satan and be deceived as Satan deceived Eve.

Therefore, we must be constantly abiding in Christ and Christ in us.

Both Adam and Eve were driven out of paradise.

Paradise is open again only to the new creation IN Christ.

Amen!

Sister Jade,

I think Scripture says Eve was deceived because she wanted to be like God. Her desire was to climb as Satan did. Adam wasn’t deceived. He probably merely cared more for Eve than for God. 1 Cor 7. That is what stole his sincere and pure devotion to the Lord above all else. I’m not sure where your conclusion comes from. Eve was responsible for her sin as Adam was for his. Each had their own self deception.

Undivided devotion to Jesus will produce the fruit and increasing character of Christ to the end. The means of His "keeping” are varied. Our eyes on Him, our hope in a better possession and city, the Spirit revealing, strengthening, correcting, putting to death the flesh, and guiding, the great cloud of witnesses, the encouragement of and building up by the ministry of the saints to one another, our striving and making every effort, and even the endurance produced by His discipline through the suffering He designed for our conformity to Jesus.

I agree with brother Zac generally, but there is so much to His keeping. Such an important topic deserves the whole counsel of God.

Hi Robert,

Adam wasn’t deceived. He probably merely cared more for Eve than for God. 1 Cor 7. That is what stole his sincere and pure devotion to the Lord above all else.

But why didn’t Adam care more for God than he cared for Eve after she had been deceived?

Christ, the Second Man, was manifested to destroy the works of the devil (1 John 3:8).

Why didn’t, or couldn’t, Adam, the first man, destroy the works of the devil after Eve was deceived?

Christ, the Second Man, did not fail.

John 14:30-31 ”“
I will not speak much more with you, for the ruler of the world is coming, and he has nothing in Me; but so that the world may know that I love the Father, I do exactly as the Father commanded Me. Get up, let us go from here.

Why did Adam, the first man, fail?

The means of His "keeping” are varied. Our eyes on Him, our hope in a better possession and city, the Spirit revealing, strengthening, correcting, putting to death the flesh, and guiding, the great cloud of witnesses, the encouragement of and building up by the ministry of the saints to one another, our striving and making every effort, and even the endurance produced by His discipline through the suffering He designed for our conformity to Jesus.

Robert, you left this out:

John 15:5-6 ”“
I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.
If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.

Do you reject this? That is, do you maintain that we still have Christ’s keeping even if He is not abiding in us and we are not abiding in Him?

Jade,

I agree with everything you said except for the part about why Eve sinned. Adam was an idolator to self and so was Eve.

I also agree with abiding in Jesus as absolutely necessary. I left it out because you already mentioned it. There's just a lot at work to keep us in Him which is why I listed all that I did. Finishing the race is a Kingdom Family effort involving the Trinity, the individual and the Body. The reason for that is that finishing the race is not just "not falling away". Finishing the race is being conformed to His image, Christ likeness, glorification. To finish well and not be disqualified early involves many and much effort. That's why I said His keeping of us involves the whole counsel of God on the subject. There's a lot more to it than just referencing abiding or devotion. It's all of God of course, but there are many involved.

I wondered if you could tell me why you believe that the harlot, mystery Babylon, is the church of Christ. I'm typing on a small screen so not able to say very much very fast.
Thanks!

Hi BranchInVine,
So their are very few disciples on SI or in the body if thats the full conclusion, if any.

"Therefore, we are disciples of Christ only if we are bearing much fruit by constantly abiding in Christ and Christ in us"
Their has to be room for falling and failing.

General comment about the thread.

None of the comments on the thread deal with "How do you measure saving grace?".
Because if you cant measure saving grace then you cant lose your salvation.
The problem with alot of SI members who believe in losing ur salvation is that they see themselves holier than those who say they cant lose their salvation.Instead of "working out their salvation in fear and trembling" they end up working to earn their salvation,an age old trap.
They use unbiblical terms like "hyper grace" but all the while still maintaining that they "go strictly by the book"
I learned of one guy who had some mental issues who spent years in further distress because the Church he went too preached that you can lose your salvation ,leaving the guy in a worse state than he was before he went to that Church.
So you have to understand that Christians who believe in "once saved always saved" sees the opposite of this "you can lose your salvation" as a deception into living life under works and not grace.

Apart from Christ we can do nothing but that doesnt mean Christ isnt right beside us when we cry for help.If we cant turn to Christ at any stage(repent) then we cant repent at all.All Christians have been decieved by Satan at some stage in their lives but maybe SI Christians and Zac Poonen are better Christians than us mere mortals(not eternally)....
urs staff

Hi staff,

How eagerly will Christians jump on the OSAS wagon to enter a heaven that will be populated with sinners to escape the hell they consign others to.

How furiously they reject Patristic Universalism (that Dukster raised in another thread) that will see heaven populated with holy people of God.

When was the command given to hate your neighbour and love yourself?

Thanks, Robert, for clarifying.

There's a lot more to it than just referencing abiding or devotion.

John 15:5 ”“
I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.

Comment:
Without the abiding, nothing can be done. Therefore the abiding is of first and utmost importance.

To finish well and not be disqualified early involves many and much effort.

Comment:
The fight is a fight of faith (2 Tim. 4:7-8), fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith (Heb.12:2). God’s promises are inherited through faith and patience (Heb.6:12).

I agree with everything you said except for the part about why Eve sinned. Adam was an idolator to self and so was Eve.

Comment:
Eve was taken out of Adam and was bone of his bone and flesh of his flesh and they were "one flesh” (Gen.2:21-24). Therefore, Adam and Eve would have the same nature, the same "DNA”. And therefore, Adam could not save Eve because they were of the same kind. What she desired he also desired. What seemed good to her also seemed good to him.

Hi Branchinvine,
Work work work to get to heaven and earn your salvation ,forget what Jesus did on the cross ,it doesnt matter to the youcanloseyoursalvation I made myself holy crew,
You can love your neighbour OSAS doesnt rule that command out,
urs staff

Hi staff,

Phil. 2:13 ”“
…………it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

Without holiness no one will see God (Heb. 12:14).

Hi BranchinVINE,
Its Christ's Holiness that saves not mine,urs staff

For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, [39] Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Brothers and Sisters,

A sincere and loving question for two thread running now on the forum:

Do those who desire to be saved need, in an essential way, to file sin and chase after holiness, to make every effort and make it their goal to pursue perfection, and to make every effort to add in increasing measure godliness, in faith upon the in dwelling Spirit and God’s promises ? And conversely, laziness in such effort at failure to pursue with focus and every effort result in not being saved.

Lest the reply is made that this is human works, please know the cross and the new covenant in his blood is God’s provision that makes this goal and prize the path of salvation possible and gives assurance when this race is run that entry into heaven is provided.

Universalism is precluded by this doctrine of Christ in me by the blood of the covenant as the source work and provision towards salvation. Also, His keeping is in essence, His making me holy, perfect, mature and Christlike which is complete when the sons of Glory are revealed upon receipt at-the final consummation when we receive glorious resurrected bodies when we see Him face to face Those with a good recall of Scripture, will recognize every word on this post is a summary in close approximation to many verses only listed in a connected way.

There is eternal security for the believer- but that begs the question of what a believer is.

But staff is right- no one who believes salvation can be lost thinks they are in that camp, just as no Calvinistic thinks they are not one of the elect.

He is also right that believing is on a sort of continuum. We have ups and downs in our Christian walks and we stumble sometimes very badly. Then we proceed onto the mountaintop only to slide back down again.

Thank God it is He who judges as only He can know a man’s heart and He also knows our weaknesses.

Hi staff,

Its Christ's Holiness that saves not mine

Agree.

But Christ’s holiness must be *** IN *** us, by grace through faith.

2 Cor. 13:5 (KJV) ”“
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

If Christ’s holiness is not IN a professing Christian, that person is a reprobate.

For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, [39] Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Comment:
But we can separate ourselves from God by ceasing to abide in Christ.

Todd,

We have ups and downs in our Christian walks and we stumble sometimes very badly. Then we proceed onto the mountaintop only to slide back down again.

Phil. 3:12-14 ”“
Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus. Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

Still fighting the good fight. Still running in the race of faith!

Hi Branchinvine,
Yeah Paul is asking the question in expectation that the hearer will say no we are not reprobates,we do have Christ in us.Its not at all proof you can lose your salvation.

2 Cor. 13:5 (KJV) ”“
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

What Scriptures are you using for this statement?(that are not circular reasoning that is)
But we can separate ourselves from God by ceasing to abide in Christ

Also how do you measure Grace?Unanswered question which you declined to answer earlier,
urs staff

Hi again,
The gospel in a way is a "works gospel",in the sense that God wants you and me to work to be like him or to be holy but its not a "works gospel" in the sense that we have to work to be saved into eternity.I like the saying "I am saved","I am being saved" and "I will be saved"
I am saved when I accept Christ ,I am being saved daily as I go through this world with Christ and ultimately I will be saved out of this world when I die or when he comes back again.
The bible is very clear on alot of subjects
Like "You shall not steal"is crystal clear for instance but on the subject of salvation their is not a sentence that says for instance "You can lose your salvation if you are born again" or if I flip it on its head "You can never lose your salvation if you are born again".
So from my point of view teaching you can lose your salvation is just a works gospel or ends up a works gospel in my opinion.
Both beliefs seems to have a problem to overcome.On the one hand OSAS seems to mean that every behaviour is permitable and the anti OSAS seems to say the only way to heaven is to work your way to heaven and dont change ur mind on the last day of your life.
Because I have not found a way to measure grace then I go with everything is permissable but not everything is profitable.We being lovers of Christ want to please him and although we fall and fail when we dont follow him as closely as we should we are still saved but learn I think over time to want the profitable things.
Now if other Christians feel like their intrepretation is that you can lose your salvation ,I mean I dont agree with them but thats what they think and they are also lovers of Christ.
Its just we have to respond I think to set the record straight to those who feel that they are holier than we are just because we do not believe in losing their salvation.
I dont think anyone can say the bible is crystal clear 100% on the subject without any debate.If it were that clear then their would be no debate between true born again believers,
urs staff

Hi Staff,

Here’s a passage to unpack.

3 His divine power has given us everything required for life and godliness through the knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. 4 By these he has given us very great and precious promises, so that through them you may share in the divine nature, escaping the corruption that is in the world because of evil desire. 5 For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with goodness, goodness with knowledge, 6 knowledge with self-control, self-control with endurance, endurance with godliness, 7 godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being useless or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 The person who lacks these things is blind and shortsighted and has forgotten the cleansing from his past sins. 10 Therefore, brothers and sisters, make every effort to confirm your calling and election, because if you do these things you will never stumble. 11 For in this way, entry into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be richly provided for you.

12 Therefore I will always remind you about these things, even though you know them and are established in the truth you now have. 13 I think it is right, as long as I am in this bodily tent, to wake you up with a reminder, 14 since I know that I will soon lay aside my tent, as our Lord Jesus Christ has indeed made clear to me. 15 And I will also make every effort so that you are able to recall these things at any time after my departure. -- 2 Peter 1:3-15 (CSB)

This passage undeniably says that entry into heaven is predicated on making every effort to increase in godliness. I am of the view that those who have entered into the new covenant (cleansed, new heart, new spirit, indwelling Holy Spirit) will make every effort and likewise increase in virtue because they embrace the command, live by His power and promises and race to the perfection He has planned for those who love Him and are in the Son. But, the warning to those who think they can believe and coast or as Paul was concerned that He might be disqualified at the end of his journey must stand as a real concern and motivating concern. Presumption will end the journey. The idea that entry to the kingdom is dependent only on being forgiven negates the fullness of God’s intention in the new covenant in his blood and denies His plan of conformity to Christ.

The western church in many circles has by neglect and a false compassion stood in the Lord’s way of presenting to Jesus a pure, spotless and holy Bride to the eternal loss of many. God will train his people in righteousness or they are illegitimate children.