The emerging thoughts about the Mystery Babylon

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=taXswK8K-1I

Who could have imagined that it would go this way.

Revelation was written about things that would "soon” or "shortly” come pass.

It’s readers were even told how to identify the "Beast,” if they had wisdom.

If you were a protestant sitting in a church prior to the early 1800s you would have never been taught that Revelation was about the future.

Therefore, Mystery Babylon is certainly not the USA, or NYC.

I find it ironic that this message is about the USA being Mystery Babylon, while having not one but two american flags hanging there,one on either side of the cross. Sorta like the two thieves!

"The Revelation of Jesus Christ" was written specifically to those first century christians, just as Matthew 24 was written to those first century christians. We 21st century christians can learn from such prophecy for sure, but we ought not throw the USA or NYC into the mix.

The year was 1909 and CI Scofield had his reference Bible published in the USA. From then on, the american churches have bought the lies of this fraudulent man and his twisting of the Scriptures regarding end times events and the futurism of much (NOT ALL) PROPHECY, having already been fulfilled. Don't be deceived! 😔

Passerby,

No doubt, in spite of past (partial) fulfillment, there remains prophecy yet to be fulfilled with the nations (people) upon the earth obviously being involved.
Yet there indeed seems to be a mystery (not yet revealed) for some regarding the "who and how” these things will come to pass with many candidates being nominated in the various roles, tho none seem to fit the biblical description in a straightforward way that makes their "election” sure or we (body of Christ) would have a consensus and we have not yet obtained one.
Having said that, would you consider that there is more to it than meets the eye, which is to say, that in the same way the 1st century Jews were looking in all the wrong places and in all the wrong ways, ultimately missing their Messiah, this is in spite of their entire identity being inextricably wrapped up in His coming, yet they missed it… that we (body) too may very well fall short in the same way ?
In that we, like the Jews, have formed ideas based off scripture that themselves lead us astray and we "miss it” insofar as we are (have been) looking in all the wrong places, in wrong ways ?
Like the Jews, we have calcified doctrines lacking any divine life that permeate our assemblies much like they did in the first century and would in most respects, reject the truth based on the single fact, it wasn’t our idea !

When looking at the world stage currently as it presents itself, the traditional interpretations of the roles just don’t add up with what is actually occurring, and while there is no doubt the scriptures are true, that doesn’t necessarily mean our ideas about them are, even if they are calcified (codified) doctrines.

What if we (western church) are wrong on a very simple, fundamental basis exactly how the Jews were regarding Jesus of Nazareth?
Resulting in our (western church) , much like Jews in the 1st century, forfeiture? Which is to say we not only miss it but in fact act hostile towards the truth, attacking it for not coming in the way we would prefer ?

Have you considered that possibility and its implications for our age?

/What if we (western church) are wrong on a very simple, fundamental basis exactly how the Jews were regarding Jesus of Nazareth?/

Can you explain in more detail?

Yes, tho that question was primarily for the poster (Passerby) and not wanting to put a stumbling block before anyone, it would be befitting to move slowly with any other inquiries so as not to run too far ahead -

After reading and then praying on your request for "detail”, the Lord brought these two things to bear as prerequisites;
1) why did He (God) harden Pharaohs heart not allowing him to give in to Moses’ demand ?
2) what word, repeated throughout the scripture, is set by God as the condition of His covenant(s)?

Again, my only intention is to be obedient not failing the grace given me, as such a request of patience is issued regarding the fulfillment of your request 🙏🏻

TMK wrote, "If you were a protestant sitting in a church prior to the early 1800s you would have never been taught that Revelation was about the future."

Have you ever read the marginal notes for Revelation in the 1599 Geneva Bible?

I don't know of anyone, outside of certain preterists, who thinks that all has been fulfilled. We certainly haven't bypassed the millennial reign of Christ, and we are not yet living in New Jerusalem where no sin enters. Much has yet to happen.

/and we are not yet living in New Jerusalem where no sin enters. Much has yet to happen./

So do you think the New Jerusalem is a big cube?

I think you will enjoy the accommodations.

…………and we are not yet living in New Jerusalem where no sin enters. Much has yet to happen.

How do we explain this scripture:

Heb. 12:22-24 ”“
But you HAVE COME to Mount Zion and TO THE CITY OF THE LIVING GOD, THE HEAVENLY JERUSALEM, and to myriads of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.

I think you will enjoy the accommodations

MY COMMENT:

New Jerusalem is not an accommodation to book into.

We ourselves are the living stones of New Jerusalem and the Lord Jesus is the Corner Stone.

SCRIPTURE:

1 Peter 2:4-6 ”“
And coming to Him as to a living stone which has been rejected by men, but is choice and precious in the sight of God, YOU ALSO, AS LIVING STONES, are being BUILT UP AS A SPIRITUAL HOUSE for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. For this is contained in Scripture: "Behold, I lay in Zion a choice stone, a precious corner stone……”

Eph. 2:19-22 ”“
So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household, having been BUILT ON THE FOUNDATION OF THE APOSTLES AND PROPHETS, CHRIST JESUS HIMSELF BEING THE CORNER STONE, IN WHOM THE WHOLE BUILDING, BEING FITTED TOGETHER, IS GROWING INTO A HOLY TEMPLE IN THE LORD, IN WHOM YOU ALSO ARE BEING BUILT TOGETHER INTO A DWELLING OF GOD IN THE SPIRIT.

Rev. 3:11-12 ”“
He who overcomes, I will make him a PILLAR IN THE TEMPLE OF MY GOD, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, AND THE NAME OF THE CITY OF MY GOD, THE NEW JERUSALEM, WHICH COMES DOWN OUT OF HEAVEN FROM MY GOD, and My new name.

Rev. 19:6-9 ”“
Then I heard something like the voice of a great multitude and like the sound of many waters and like the sound of mighty peals of thunder, saying, "Hallelujah! For the Lord our God, the Almighty, reigns. Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the MARRIAGE OF THE LAMB has come and HIS BRIDE has made herself ready.” It was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.

Rev. 21 ”“
Then I saw a NEW HEAVEN AND A NEW EARTH; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea. And I saw THE HOLY CITY, NEW JERUSALEM, COMING DOWN OUT OF HEAVEN FROM GOD, made ready as A BRIDE ADORNED FOR HER HUSBAND. And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, "Behold, the THE TABERNACLE OF GOD is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them…………
Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and spoke with me, saying, "Come here, I WILL SHOW YOU THE BRIDE, THE WIFE OF THE LAMB.”
And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and SHOWED ME THE HOLY CITY, JERUSALEM, COMING DOWN OUT OF HEAVEN FROM GOD, HAVING THE GLORY OF GOD……………And the wall of the city had TWELVE FOUNDATION STONES, and on them were THE TWELVE NAMES OF THE TWELVE APOSTLES OF THE LAMB.

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NOTE: All CAPS are just for highlighting scripture for consideration.
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Blessings to all.

(Edited to re-direct this post to other members of the forum instead of to ChrisA)

Thanks, Jade, for the unrequested "lecture." It seems that my pithy, humorous statement - while not even directed to you - was lost upon you.

Thanks, Jade, for the unrequested "lecture." It seems that my pithy, humorous statement - while not even directed to you - was lost upon you.

Isn’t this a forum in which anyone and everyone can respond to any post?

I didn’t give an "unrequested ‘lecture.’”

I gave a comment and asked a question.

What I said are valid for discussion.

OK. Since you are offended, I will re-direct my post to other members of this forum and all scripture-based replies will be much valued and appreciated.

I don't think America is on the end times map in any "great" way. Babylon the Great in Revelation is "the mother of harlots." Adultery in the spiritual sense is anything religious that does not point to Christ (false religion). So in the past, spiritual harlotry has been literal Babylonian religious teachings, the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church that led to the torture, murder, and oppression of genuine Christians, but also New Age, Satanism, Islam, unbelieving Judaism, Atheism, Agnosticism, etc, etc.

Throughout Scripture, God will talk to demonic entities "through" the person they are manifesting through. Isaiah 14 is an example. God talks to us concerning Satan, but it "through" the person Satan manifesting through. In the case of Isaiah 14 Satan is being talked about through the lens of the King of Babylon. God also does this with non-evil entities: Israel, Moab, etc. He looks at us, the church, through the lens of Christ; and I mean, all that have been born again through trust in Christ. I am not talking about "Christendom", ie. all those that "profess" Christ.

So I am pre everything, so I think that after the church is raptured, the conditions of the entire world will change. Everything is up for grabs. Babylon could be rebuilt, America could stay a super power, etc, etc.

Even if I'm wrong, and there is no rapture, to assume that America is the Mother of Harlots wouldn't fit because America is not drunk with the blood of the saints:

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Rev 17:5-6 The name written on her forehead was a mystery: babylon the great the mother of prostitutes and of the abominations of the earth. I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of God’s holy people, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus. When I saw her, I was greatly astonished.

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So yes, the Roman church killed all those genuine believers, but God is talking about the demonic force behind the Roman church in those days. That demonic force is still here, just operating in a different way. Remember we do not wrestle with flesh and blood. "Mighty bulls" surrounded Jesus on the cross. Gog rallies God's enemies at the culmination of the Millennial Reign.

Other than America being Babylon, I think I agree with everything else in the message.

God bless, Hal

/What if we (western church) are wrong on a very simple, fundamental basis exactly how the Jews were regarding Jesus of Nazareth?/

You asked:
Can you explain in more detail?

my response;
1) why did He (God) harden Pharaohs heart not allowing him to give in to Moses’ demand ?
2) what word, repeated throughout the scripture, is set by God as the condition of His covenant(s)?
””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””
Hoping to reengage and move forward as Passerby appears to defer on my initial attempt to enter in to dialogue-

a) Because they wouldn’t have followed Moses out,…… yet.

b). "if” being the condition God places on His covenants-
[ if you will harken, turn, hear, believe, obey, keep, abide, humble yourself, pray, etc….]

Now to David’s request for detail regarding how we have gone astray in the same way the 1st century Jews had? (missing their long awaited Messiah and actually conspiring with their own oppressors to kill Him…)

To put it simply, we allowed the institutionalization of an our faith to occur, (partially through ignorance and partly through pride). Where, if we’re honest, the majority of our assemblies are as they were before, during 1st century, white washed tombs of dead men’s bones,…. No life 🤷🏽”â™‚️
This is apparent to all who have a single eye , but not to those whom eye is not single….

The Body of Christ is a living, vibrant, glorious, albeit sometimes messy (not formally organized by man) body of believers whom themselves are both independently and collectively under the direct (immediate) influence of the Holy Spirit through His ministry 🙏🏻

This is why people traveled across the country and across the world to get even one drop of the living water,… cause their local assemblies are dry, empty wells without any hope other than their alliance with their captors, just like in the 1st century…. Just like in Egypt-

The modern western church has been seduced by the same spirit… as such has quenched the Holy Spirit of Christ and they have eyes, yet they see not (the Kingdom) just as they have ears, yet they hear not (the Spirit and the Bride) -

We are one body, there is only one - wether you call it the church, the body, Israel -
This is by the will of God and He did not consult us nor ask our permission as tho it were a contract where we enter in to negotiations,… rather it is an everlasting covenant with the condition "IF you will….”
Most of what God does towards us we see as happening "to us” as opposed to "for us” and as such we stiffen our necks and do resist the ministry of His Spirit-

This grieving and subsequently quenching of His Spirit has led to the grief we now abide in resulting in the judgment we currently observe, tho it will soon (if not repented of) culminate in His wrath being poured out with many being found without.

We are all too often ignorant (in the dark) of the movement of God in our day because it doesn’t fit our institutional narrative, just as it was for the Jews in the 1st century -
Yet the Holy Spirit had not yet been given them, as we have received it, leaving us without excuse.

Again for the people in the back;
" Unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood ye shall have none…”
Jesus is the bread of life come down from heaven.

We have the bread, His flesh (logos) but "man shall not live by bread alone (ye search the scriptures…) "but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God” the blood, (rhema) the cup of obedience…. Which we all must drink from in order to partake of Him.

Come, beloved of God, to the "upper room”, sit and sup (commune) with Him and all the saints whose names are written in the Lambs book of life, that you too may partake in His presence, else how can He know you ?

I am moving what I wrote in my previous post on New Jerusalem to a new thread with title "The Living Stones of New Jerusalem".

If we read Isaiah 21 would lead you to believe that Babalyon would be in the Arabian peninsula.

If we consider Revelation John is taken to the wilderness to see this great harlot.

Be interesting to look at the word wilderness, if that means desert.

Double Post so an edit to write another post.

Checked out wilderness in the Strong's.

Strong's G2048

solitary, lonely, desolate, uninhabited

used of places a desert, wilderness deserted places, lonely regions an uncultivated region fit for pasturage.

Just noticed - Rev 17:1 The Great whore sits on many waters, but we also know John is taken to the Desert.

Could the many waters be the Red Sea, Arabian Sea and the Mediterranean Sea that surround the Arabian Peninsula?

If anyone is interested, Joel Richardson (literally) just published a video titled:

Is the United States Mystery Babylon?
// THE BOOK OF REVELATION: Session 59

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqLcUg0L1xw

Very interesting. AND he uses the analogy of the glove and does all five fingers fit the criteria.

at the 2:18 mark, the dear man buttoned it......ROME, period, end of sentence......Everything about the roman institute, its idolatry, priestcraft and superstition is rank apostasy, begotten of the pit...why write more than that?

Now your thoughts here are quite interesting. I'm inclined to believe that you are on to something. I am disappointed in much teaching that I hear from the church, mostly on the radio. What do you think about the" last day" spoken of by Jesus and so many other times? Is the mark literal or is it what's foremost on man's mind and what his hands are doing? Your thoughts appreciated.

I'm sorry, I was replying to Fletcher's comments.