The "greatness" of John the Baptist and that of the "least in the Kingdom of Heaven"

Why did Jesus call John the Baptist the greatest person to have been born until that time and why did he say that even the least in the Kingdom will be greater than he?(Matt.11:11).
In my opinion, John was great because;
He was called to be the forerunner of the Christ.
He was the first to have a firm grasp on who Jesus was (he recognized Jesus as the Christ after God revealed this to him).
(Probably most important of all) he perceived all three Persons of the Holy Trinity; he saw the Son with his physical eyes and touched him as he immersed him in the Jordan. He heard the Father's voice with his spiritual ears and saw the Holy Spirit as a Dove with his spiritual eyes.
Yet, John perceived all three Persons of the Godhead as "outside" himself. He was still under the Old Covenant. But even the weakest Christian is actually indwelt by the Holy Spirit, and as such is even "greater" than John, because of the atoning death of Jesus! How wonderful!
Dafydd

Hi Daffyd,
John The Baptist is mostly misunderstood by the Church.
The New begans with John not Jesus.
You could not be one of the Twelve Apostles unless you came under John's Ministry first.
Pentecost originates with John.
Pentecost and Mt Carmel are just the same thing in essence.
John was Elijah and Elijah comes again to restore the Twelve Stones before the return of Jesus the second time.
John was the bridegrooms helper and he will be again
One historical happening just replays again at the end time,
urs staff

Hi staff,

You could not be one of the Twelve Apostles unless you came under John's Ministry first.

This was the criteria for the selection of Matthias to replace Judas as one of the twelve apostles:

Acts 1:20-22 ”“
"For it is written in the book of Psalms,
‘Let his homestead be made desolate,
And let no one dwell in it’;
and,
‘Let another man take his office.’
Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us”” beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us””one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection.”

That is,
To qualify to be one of the twelve apostles, the candidate must be with the Lord Jesus from the day He was baptised by John to the day He was taken up from them and he must become a witness of His resurrection. There was no prerequisite for him to be under John’s ministry first.

Pentecost originates with John.

Acts 19:1-7 ”“
It happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus, and found some disciples. He said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said to him, "No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.” And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?” And they said, "Into John’s baptism.” Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying. There were in all about twelve men.

Comment:
The disciples did not receive the Holy Spirit through John’s ministry.
They received the Holy Spirit through Paul’s ministry.

The New begans with John not Jesus.

It is God, not John, who makes all things new.

Rev. 21:5-6 ”“
And He who sits on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new.”

All things are made new IN CHRIST.

2 Cor. 5:17 ”“
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

John was not the beginning. It is the Lord Jesus who is the beginning and the end.

Rev. 22:13 ”“
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”

Hi Branchinvine,
My statements are correct.
Their is a prerequesite to come under John's Ministry to be part of the 12 Apostles.
Explanation:
John was Elijah
John made the paths straight for Jesus by following the prophetic pattern of Elijah
The prophetic pattern was outlined on Mt Carmel
12 stones
Wood
The Sacrifice
12 Measures of Water poured on the Stones
The Fire Fell
John Followed the Pattern
He prepared the 12 stones the Apostles
He Prepared the Sacrifice Jesus
The Fire Fell when the Twelve Apostles are restored to the correct number in Acts 1 or put another way when the altar was restored by putting the twelve stones in place

Misintrepretation

Your Qoute>
"That is,
To qualify to be one of the twelve apostles, the candidate must be with the Lord Jesus from the day He was baptised by John to the day He was taken up from them and he must become a witness of His resurrection. There was no prerequisite for him to be under John’s ministry first."

This is not correct,to qualify to be one of the 12 Apostles the candidate for the vacant position had to be baptised by John himself
"beginning with the baptism of John until the day that "

So its not Jesus's Baptism that he was talking about its the candidates baptism.
He had to be baptised by John because John was Elijah and that was his job to pour water over both the 12stones and the sacrifice.
Thats why Jesus said to John "permit it so that all things will be fulfilled".
Even though John didnt recognise himself as Elijah Jesus did and knew that he had to be baptised by John to fulfill scripture,
Everybody that was with Jesus from the beginning was baptised by John even Jesus .Everybody that was with Jesus from the beginning came under John's Ministry before Jesus Ministry.It was John who sent the Apostles out to look for the Messiah.We know this because of this exchange

At once he found his brother Simon and told him, "We have found the Messiah."
They were out looking for the Messiah because John had alread ytold them he is walking in Israel somewhere,

I will answer the second point in a seperate post,
urs staff

Hi Branchinvine,
Pentecost originates with John

Without these ingredients their is no pentecost

Elijah
Twelve stones or Twelve Apostles
Water being poured on the Twelve stones
A sacrifice which is Jesus

John came to prepare the altar for Jesus so he could be sacrificed .He prepared the twelve and then he prepared the Sacrifice Jesus and after that his Job was mostly done and he decreased until the evil woman took his head itself fulfilling prophesy.
After the Jesus was sacrificed and the twelve restored then the Fire fell,
Without God sending John "first" to prepare these things in the correct order then the fire could not fall nor could Pentecost happen.This is not lowering what Jesus did in anyway but only showing the funtionality of John in the process,
urs staff

Hi Branchinvine
"It is God, not John, who makes all things new"
I dont think anyone could disagree with that qoute.
However I didnt say anything that disagrees with it.
God makes all thing new and in this case God got John who was Elijah if you care to accept it to begin the process by preparing the way for Jesus the sacrifice,
urs staff

Hi staff,

You cannot just take what was written about Elijah and apply it to John the Baptist.

2 Kings 2:17 - And Elijah went up by a whirlwind to heaven.

Did John the Baptist go up by a whirlwind to heaven?

He prepared the 12 stones the Apostles

Did John the Baptist prepare Levi (Matthew) the tax collector be an apostle?

Luke 5:27-28 ”“
After that He went out and noticed a tax collector named Levi sitting in the tax booth, and He said to him, "Follow Me.” And he left everything behind, and got up and began to follow Him.

Scripture mentions only 2 apostles who were John’s disciples (John 1:35-36).

The Fire Fell when the Twelve Apostles are restored to the correct number in Acts 1 or put another way when the altar was restored by putting the twelve stones in place

I assume by the "fire” you mean the pouring forth of the Holy Spirit on the Day of Pentecost.

This is the promise of the Father (Acts 1:4-5, John 14:16) and was prophesied by the prophet Joel (Acts 2:16).

Elijah took 12 stones in 1 Kings 18:31 according to the number of the tribes of the sons of Jacob. The 12 apostles are Christ’s witnesses. They are very different twelve. These are 2 different things.

This is not correct,to qualify to be one of the 12 Apostles the candidate for the vacant position had to be baptised by John himself
"beginning with the baptism of John until the day that "

So its not Jesus's Baptism that he was talking about its the candidates baptism.

Acts 1:21-22 ”“
Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us”” beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us””one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection.”

Barnes Notes on the Bible:
Beginning from the baptism of John - The words "beginning from" in the original refer to the Lord Jesus. The meaning may be thus expressed, "during all the time in which the Lord Jesus, beginning (his ministry) at the time when he was baptized by John, went in and out among us, until the time when he was taken up," etc. From those who had during that time been the constant companions of the Lord Jesus must one be taken, who would thus be a witness of his whole ministry.

John came to prepare the altar for Jesus so he could be sacrificed .He prepared the twelve and then he prepared the Sacrifice………

This is what the Lord Jesus said about John:

John 5:33-36 ”“
You have sent to John, and he has testified to the truth. But the testimony which I receive is not from man, but I say these things so that you may be saved. He was the lamp that was burning and was shining and you were willing to rejoice for a while in his light.
But the testimony which I have is greater than the testimony of John; for the works which the Father has given Me to accomplish””the very works that I do””testify about Me, that the Father has sent Me.

God the Father prepared the body of Jesus Christ for the offering and Christ Himself came to do God’s will to be the sacrifice so that we may be sanctified once for all.

Heb. 10:5-10 ”“
Therefore, when He comes into the world, He says,
"Sacrifice and offering You have not desired,
But a body You have prepared for Me;
In whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have taken no pleasure.
"Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come
(In the scroll of the book it is written of Me)
To do Your will, O God.’”
After saying above, "Sacrifices and offerings and whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have not desired, nor have You taken pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the Law), then He said, "Behold, I have come to do Your will.” He takes away the first in order to establish the second. By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Comment:
We have to be careful not to take away the glory that belongs to God and ascribe it to a man.

Hi BranchinVine,
Your qoute:

"You cannot just take what was written about Elijah and apply it to John the Baptist."

Yes of course you can.We use types and patterns all the time in bible teaching .Such as the "Messiah being the sacrifice" or the "temple as being a type of our body"etc

ON THE APOSTLES UNDER JOHN

We know from Acts 1/2 that the qualifications for to be one of the Twelve is that they were their from the beginning which is the Baptism of John.
We know from Scripture that Elijah had to prepare the way of Jesus which includes everything.
We know that they were looking for the Messiah because of the disciple under the tree.
We know from Matthew the Tax Collector that he immediately jumped down and followed Jesus not because Jesus had him in a trance but that he was obviously waiting for him to appear.
We know that "All Judea and the surrounds went out to see John" and that includes the word "All"
All includes the Twelve
We know that Jesus got Baptised by John and it would be odd at the very least if the Twelve hadnt done it before him coming on the scene
ON BARNES
Barnes is a commentary and he is expressing the way he thinks it should be expresse and is not taking in the whole picture.The candidate had to be with them from John and his baptism otherwise he could not be a stone.

ON THE WHIRLWIND

Yes Elijah will go up again like the whirlwind at the end times when Elijah comes again ie "The Two Witnesses"
The Witnesses and the 3 1/2 yrs show that Elijah comes again before either the "Raptrue" if your pre trib or 2The Ressurection" if you are post trib.

ON ELIJAH
If Elijah being John didnt do the things Elijah did in the old Testament why send him at all.The Spirit of Elijah does the same things over and over,
urs staff

Hi
ON ELIJAH And Biblical Pattern.

If we dont use biblical pattern evenly then Jesus being the sacrifice or typology of the temple or any typology is just accidental.

Elijah Pattern accidents!

Elijah comes unexpectedly
John comes unexpectedly

Elijah Ministry associated with 3 1/2 years with drought
John From John's baptism of Jesus til the end of his ministry is 3 1/2 yrs

All Israel went out to see Elijah
All Judah and the surrounds went out to see John

Elijah wore a Hairy Coat
John wore a Hairy Coat

Elijah Wicked Woman wanted to cut off his head
John Wicked Woman gets his head cut off

Elijah restores the Altar
John "I will send Elijah before the great and terrible day of the Lord and he will Restore all things

Elijah restores the 12 stones
John Prepares the 12 Stones(Revelation says the Apostles were 12 stones)

Elijah pours water over the sacrifice of a beast of burden
John pours water over the Messiah who burdens our sins

Elijah pours twelve portions of water over the twelve stones
John baptises the the twelve Apostles

Elijah On Mt Carmel the Fire fell when the altar was put in order
John At Pentecost when everything was put in order the fire fell"They saw what seemed to be tongues of FIRE that separated and came to rest on each of them"

Elijah on Mt Carmel A tongue comes and lick everything acceptable up
John A Tongue of fire comes to rest at Pentecost

ELISHA and the Spirit Of Elijah and the Two Witnesses and the Spirit of Elijah also have all these accidents ot Twelve and 3 1/2 years translations into heaven as well and can be listed out.

What Im saying is Elijah comes again before the end whether thats before the trib or after is a matter of divided opinion.
When you see 3 1/2 years then thats the time of Elijah.
We can ignore pattern but if you ignore pattern then you have to ignore all the pattern that says Christ is the Messiah to be intellectually consistant.

Elijah ,Elisha and John The Baptist and The Two Witnesses all have the same Spirit and because of Elisha's request for a double portion we call that "The Spirit Of Elijah"

The Spirit Of Elijah comes again at the time of the end to restore all things such as Apostolic doctrine and to prepare everyone for the end,
urs staff

Staff, the twelve stones of Elijah's altar represent the twelve tribes of Israel. The twelve apostles did not yet exist. Even if they did, which stone represented Judas Iscariot? Remember, he was there for 3 1/2 years of Jesus' earthly ministry.

When John the Baptist was asked if he were Elijah, he said no.

You are trying too hard to force types and shadows into fixed patterns of your own design. This will result in erroneous conclusions and bad theology. I see from other threads that you are contentious and unwilling to budge an inch, even when multiple brothers try to reason with you. One recent thread was locked because of YOU. I would have liked to have contributed to that thread, but cannot now.

tracking with you 💯
(you even added a couple I had missed 🙏🏻)

The OP was also well prepared :)

ChrisA/Jade
Jesus said it, Staff is just sharing it…

Matt 11:
10 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
((((14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.))))

Hi Chris,
The Twelve stones represent the Twelve Tribes and the Twelve stones of John The Baptist Altar were the Twelve Apostles.
When Jesus was Asked was John Elijah Jesus said Yes if you care to accept it.Why he said this is because he knew the Jews would be looking for a man coming in on a Chariot all guns blazing and couldnt see the John did all the works of Elijah namely he prepared everything for Jesus.

Your qoute
"You are trying too hard to force types and shadows into fixed patterns of your own design"

First of all this is blatantly untrue .I have outlined in perfect order that John fulfilled all the jobs of Elijah.Jesus said of John the Baptist: "He is Elijah who is to come” (Matt 11:14)
And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.

Jesus accepted John as Elijah and the reason he said if you are willing to accept it is because he knew if the Jews accepted John as Elijah then they would have to accept him as Messiah which they were not willing to do,

Also all I have put down is clear and concise and only BranchinVine has responded no other????
If you dont accept the typology of John and Elijah then you cant accept the typology of the scapegoat,the temple ,tabernacles or any other typology and pattern,
urs staff

Hi all
The Book of Revelation describes the Apostles as being foundation stones.Why are you offended when I describe the Apostles as 12 stones?

And the wall of the city had twelve foundation stones, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
urs staff

Hi Chris,
I see you are a new member to SI and may not realize that debates can get intense but sometimes the best information come from intensity.
Your qoute:
"One recent thread was locked because of YOU. I would have liked to have contributed to that thread."
BTW this is not correct.
Talk to SI about it.

The scripture im sharing about John is very basic
for instance
You would have to accept from Matt 11:14 that Jesus does say that John was Elijah
Matt 11:14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.

If you accept that Jesus said John was Elijah then it would be logical to find out why he was Elijah?
For instance on the face of it he didnt do anything the original did ,he didnt do miracles ,he didnt bring drought ,he didnt compete against the prophets of Baal.
The only way to find that out is to look at the life and times of the original Elijah.What was his role and how did John fulfill that role.
Jesus clearly thought John was fulfilling a role Matt 3:15

But Jesus, answering, said to him, "Allow it at this time; for in this way it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he allowed Him.
Its obvious Jesus was not in need of John's Baptism of repentance but was allowing it to fulfill scripture.
Another thing that is not offensive nor surely cant be disputed is that both Elijah and John the Baptist poured water over a sacrifice.
The bullock on Mt Carmel was a sin offering for Israel and Jesus was also a sin offering but for you and me.
All sin offering in the OT point to Jesus or are in some way a substitute for Jesus.
So again its no stretch at all to say that the bullock on Mt Carmel was a symbol of the ultimate Sacrifice Jesus.
I am not saying anything different about typology and pattern than Jacob Prasch a preacher that has 10 or 20 sermons on SI.People might be offended by his tone ,he is not mild like me,at least thats what my mother said,
urs staff