How to debate a flat earther

Hi Guys,
I have a friend who really loves Jesus and spends a lot of personal time and practical effort do help the poor.

He holds and engineering degree but came to believe in a flat earth and that the moon landing was a hoax.

I tried to convince him that a spheric earth and the cosmic model of our rotation solar system is not contradiction to the bible, as long as you do not promote big bang. I also leaned on arguments from answersingenesis to no avail. He is well educated and kind hearted, we are still friends though I warned him about the consequences of believing such strange things.

I really wonder how anyone in his right mind can fall for such things? He is not a nutter, but a kind and humble man.

Methinks in the midst of all the lies that come from the government, media and corporate world, we are driven into the defensive and are tempted to disbelieve things that are common knowledge, just because it goes with the mainstream opinion. Isaiah 8:12 says

"Do not say, ‘A conspiracy,’
Concerning all that this people call a conspiracy,
Nor be afraid of their threats, nor be troubled.

I think as Christians with a biblical apocalyptic world view we are given the key to understand much of what is going on right now, however it is possible to fall for strange believes if we are not careful.

Hi NP,

While I probably wouldn’t be considered a "flat earther” , I am a human being who loves God and who is a brother in Christ, and an active member of His body- and I have a question for you, if you will entertain it….

Utilizing the scientific method, can you or have you ever seen or even heard of someone, somewhere demonstrating an experiment where water would stick to a ball while it was spinning ?

If so, should you please share it with me,.. if not then how can it be called "science” if it can’t be empirically demonstrated through the scientific method🤷🏽”â™‚️

Centrifugal forces cause the earth and other celestial bodies to flatten a bit, while gravity causes them to become spherical shapes- but not to a disk.

I know two people who are as well. It is unfortunate. They are professing Christians, but have fallen into this false concept. Without even getting into science, look at all the various nations that have engaged in the use of rockets. The race to be the first on the moon was genuine, and an extension of the Cold War. If the Soviets of that day could have exposed the round earth (how about the round moon?) as false to embarrass US efforts they certainly would have. Look at all of the film footage from space across the past 60 years. Even William Shatner went up in a space shuttle recently. There would be no way that flat earth photos or film from space could be suppressed. It simply doesn't exist.

There are many Youtube.com videos which reason from a scientific view of a round earth (though wider at the equator than the poles), but I would go deeper: why did the person subscribe to a flat earth concept? What does he/she hope to gain from it? It is very cultish. I guess they don't go on around the world cruises either, for fear of falling off.

It is very sad. Just pray for the person and show the love of Christ. If He speaks through you by the Spirit in a key moment this stronghold can be effectively torn down.

We need to be careful both ways.
We need to keep the "moon landing hoax " and the "flat earth"apart.

If the earth is flat like a disk then we should be able to meassure the diameter of the disk. When we know the diameter then we should read Ps103:12
"as far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us"
Then our transgressions would be as far apart as east is from west, which could be meassured.
Then we would all have a big problen that nobody could solve.
Thank God this is not the case.

But in the "real world" we could travel east for as long as we want and never reach west.
Likewise we will never see our sins again that are forgiven.
Praise God !

Markus

I apologize for the 2 blank posts,..

If I may ask another question about the second topic you mentioned,…

When we watch the footage of the moon landing and man stepping onto the moon for the first time,… who is taking the pictures?
Because from the camera angle, they had the presence of mind to walk 10’s of meters away with the sun to their back (to create he perfect lighting) arriving at a location where the lunar lander (which I’ve personally seen) would be in the proper scale to really create some impressive images and whoever this professional level photographer was … that’s the actual "first person on the moon” 🤔

Also since we surely have the location of the flag on the moon, why not just take those and point a nice camera or decent telescope at that location and take us a picture of the flag on the moon from the earth 😁

That would put it to rest, no?
Interesting that no one has done this in 60 years 🤔

Also if it’s not too much trouble,… could someone direct me to the record of the experiment where a moon ball can spin around an earth ball but no matter wether it’s night or day, Jerusalem or Jakarta the same "side” of the moon ball is facing the earth ball at all times ??

Thank you in advance (seriously) because in spite of my attempts to locate and/or reproduce this phenomenon, none have been successful 🤷🏽”â™‚️

We need to keep the "moon landing hoax " and the "flat earth"apart.

They usually go together.

I agree with Chris, the reason to believe flat earth is usually grounded in a deep suspicion about anything that is mainstream common knowledge, eg. because X, Y and Z believes it, it must be false. Just because we are inundated with lies, not everything that is published by mainstream media is a lie. It is a gross simplification to believe that you get the truth when you always falsify what comes out of the mouth of someone who usually lies. Even Satan uses truth apart from lies and half-truths.

I pulled the main scientific arguments to no avail.

I however do believe that during the time of the seal, trumpet and bowl judgments we will encounter things that upset our current knowledge of meterology, geology, and cosmology. The bible talks about heaven beeing rolled up like a mantle, mountains and islands moved from their location, the stars falling like leaves, and Christ will be seen by all men at his return, which is only possibe when either spatial dimensions be altered or our visual perception be enhanced.

Fletcher the moon landing "suspicions” have been answered ad nauseam and are readily searchable. Your question regarding the dark side of the moon is easily searchable. As to the first photo of Neil descending the ladder, there was a camera on an extendable arm projecting from the LEM. I guarantee you that since they had the tech and smarts to get to the moon they had the smarts to figure out how to take a pic. Not to say mistakes weren’t made- I believe it was Alan Shepherd who in a later mission pointed the color TV camera at the sun and it rendered it useless for the rest of the mission.

In regard to water flying off a spinning ball, the water in the oceans etc is spinning at the same speed as the earth just like you and I are. If the world were to suddenly stop spinning or suddenly double in speed there might be an issue but it would have to be very sudden.

deleted my post again
sorry, not worth discussing the topic

let's fix our eyes on Jesus

Markus

Hi NP! Great thread here!

There does seem to be more and more people skeptical that God created a spinning globe. I'm hearing more about it from friends and family too.

You made some great points that I would like to explore, especially the Bible verse that you mentioned.

I had not noticed that there is a verse in the Bible that actually says the word "conspiracy"! Thank you for sharing that.

In the context of Isaiah 8, I have not dug too deeply into it yet, but I want to make sure that I am understanding who is being referred to when it says "this people"? I think Isaiah is referencing the Assyrian's right?

The Lord is telling him not to "call conspiracy" all that the Assyrians call conspiracy?

It seems the general exhoration is to God's people to not be afraid of Assyria (however they may be conspiring), but rather to fear God!

So I'm curious in the context that you are mentioning it, how does this relate to your friend?

The way you described this friend as one who loves Jesus, and is kind and humble, it does not sound like he's afraid of any conspiracy at all. Quite the opposite. It sounds like he fears the Lord!

It is also interesting to me that he is an engineer. Has he been able to share any thoughts with you from a logical perspective about the nature of this earth, or is he just throwing random youtube videos at you that make no sense at all?

Hi Chris! Again, I also know several of "these people". I'm curious, with your acquaintances, how closely have you had the opportunity to walk with them before they came to this new belief about this earth that God created? Were they people of sincere faith and good character in your opinion and experience, similar to how NP describes his friend? How did you learn that their worldview changed? Did they just throw some random sketchy youtubes or tiktoks at you, or have they had sincere conversations with you about it?

One, a male, I knew for years, but he and his wife moved away and when I saw him online he was posting flat earth debate videos, and then I realised he had fallen in with this crowd. The other, a female, I also knew for years, but had never heard her bring it up until recently, so I never knew when she embraced the concept. Both are compassionate, sincere Christians.

Nevertheless, strong delusion is real.

I am fascinated by the mental gymnastics required for those that believe such things.

It is more than "I’ll believe it if I see it” because you can’t see some things unless you are an astronaut orbiting the earth.

It is so easy to say we never went to the moon but the evidence of several moon missions (some astronauts were solid Christians) is so overwhelming that this grasping at the flimsiest of straws is fascinating.

And why? Why do some Christians reject moon landings? What are they afraid of?

Hate to have to inform them but there are many more things we are on the very cusp of discovering that are far more potentially paradigm-shattering than moon landings.

Buckle your seatbelts!

And, in case you were wondering, God is in control. He is not in heaven wringing his hands over the things not yet discovered. Take comfort in the fact that whatever is discovered, He created it!

Todd,

If your suspicions are correct regarding the spinning ball with water sticking to it then surely with all these paradigm shifting technologies and discoveries, the scientific community could perform/demonstrate this phenomenon of which you speak, no? Otherwise how can it not simply be a theory, which people are free to have but it doesn’t qualify as science unless it meets the scientific criteria to be considered science 🤷🏽”â™‚️
If you’re aware of a successful attempt, please share :)

Fletcher- I’m not sure what you are talking about.

If you are riding on a train going 60 mph and jump on the train it will not go out from under you because you are going the same speed as the train. If you jump off the back you are dead meat.

Isn’t that obvious? The same principle applies to objects on the earth whic is spinning about 1000 mph.

What I am asking is, has there been an experiment where scientists have been able to get water to stick to a spinning ball ?

(for me) that doesn’t seem to. be an unreasonable request…
If it is as you say, then surely that would be demonstrable, no?
and if not, why not ?

Regarding the moon landing, after seeing the lunar lander in person in Huntsville AL, you would be confronted by the question, how could this thing travel 228,000 miles (give or take) through space with a few men in it, at ridiculous speeds and extreme temperature variations, when I wouldn’t fly 300 miles to the beach in that thing ?! It’s comically thin and an adult male could easily put his foot through it if he was so inclined 🤷🏽”â™‚️
This is one of a plethora of aspects about this particular subject that asks me to suspend my rational mind and take it on faith … I’m not willing to do that when the coordinates for the flag on the moon could easily be publicized and people could see for themselves undeniable proof and the matter could be once and for all, put to rest.

Do you find my requirement of empirical evidence to be unreasonable?

Why don't you ask those who should know best ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UnhZftFEZs

Just went to see him and his house fellowship and the Spirit of God moved as we talked about the cross. At least he and I agree on theological issues.

He actually admits that he has some issues with flat earth that he can't explain forces like gravity and tides.

As to the video of the moon landing, first of all, you should not swear on the bible anyway, and secondly he got his answers in the same manner he asked.