How do we lead in the church

This question comes from the thread on focus or fixation thread.We would all agree that leadership is important in the local church, but my question is, how is it manifested? i.e. In corporate meetings, how do we engage the spirit of the Lord in a fashion that does not lead to chaos, but at the same time allows Jesus to be Lord of His church?In cell meetings/homegroups/house churches, how is leadership fleshed out/lived out?Where does gods leading and mans following meet, someone, somewhere has to be listening?Curious

"To the elders among you, I appeal as a fellow elder, a witness of Christ's sufferings and one who also will share in the glory to be revealed: Be shepherds of God's flock that is under your care, serving as overseers—not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be; not greedy for money, but eager to serve; not lording it over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock. And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that will never fade away."1 Peter 5

God is the head of Christ, Christ is the head of man, man is the head of woman. acts is a guide to the church in motion, by much prayer and the Holy Spirit moving among the people. It's in the word, 1 cor. 14 and 1-2 Tim. Titus.

In cell meetings/homegroups/house churches, how is leadership fleshed out/lived out?My brother, I believe the best and biblical way is through home groups. A regular time of studying the Word of God, waiting on the Lord to raise this group of believers to become stable, solid and established in the Word. In the many years I have been doing this, I see God is not in a rush to build buildings etc., as He is in the lives of His people. I have a Home group of 18 adults, 5 children, and the need as a pastor to care for the souls He has or will entrust with you, to be found faithful on there behalf. I've known my calling for 25 years now, to raise up children to be mature in the Lord. To know Jesus intimately, to hear His voice and to gain wisdom, knowledge and understanding, as being led by the Holy Spirit, confirmed by the written Word of God. I have been apart of 2 churches that have been started this way, eventually leading to renting a large room/bldg, and when we were too big for that, years later, we raised the money to buy the land and build a church. The first church I was apart of, as a core member, is 3,500 strong today in USANow to answer the other part of your question, the man of God who is called to pastor a local church, needs to be submissive, broken, and humbled, under the Lordship of Jesus Christ, lest he gets puffed up in his own eyes, and proud in what he may think are his achievements. As Paul, the Apostle showed in his life, it was the total dependence on the Lord, becoming well versed in the Word of God and able discern the voice of the Spirit, that prepared him to meet the challenges in his 3 journeys. Most of all living free over the sins of the flesh. I'm not talking sinless perfection here, but by the Grace of our dear and precious Lord, we must overcome, or we can not lead lost souls. We need to have bold faith in trusting our God, so other Christians, may see by our life there is Victory by the Blood of Jesus over the world, the flesh and the devil.In corporate meetings, how do we engage the spirit of the Lord in a fashion that does not lead to chaos, but at the same time allows Jesus to be Lord of His church?This is the area where Faith and walking with God really comes in. I have a open forum in my home group, for I desire inter-action with my family of believers. We are not always on the same page, spiritually, but the Grace and compassion of the Lord is so sweet to maintain, so called rabbit trails (other topics raised up in discussion) the 2 hours or more studying God’s Word, prayer, music etc. I’ve learned not to be heavy handed but move by the Spirit with Grace. If the people know the Word of God and know His voice, reverence brings order that is peaceful, rest for the soul, they will recognize the anointing of God on the person called by God. This all takes God’s time, the way He wants to do it, and for us to watch and learn and be patient. I hope some of this helps you. God bless you and yours, Bryan :-)

Has anyone had any contact or experience of the George Patterson Spontaneous Multiplication of churches programme?

Thanks to all who have responded, and even to those who have read and have thought a little.One of the areas that I really struggle with is the area of leadership and how its done in the local church/homegroup setting. As a believer in the Lord Jesus I feel that everyone has a role to play in the edifying of the body, not just the person who is leading it. In the days when I still lead a small group one of my frustrations was the fact that it was a culture of watching that was propogated in the small group/corporate gathering. If we lead so strong that people can just pitch up, pay up and shut up(more, they just say nothing), are we not missing the boat.Certainly at the end of my time leading the group, establishing an environment where discussion and ideas are shared freely were my main goals. Its been a while since I have lead anything except my wife so I am bit loath to go back into again, and get stuck with the same thing of people watching as you put on the show. Its terrible. Thats why I asked the question leading out, how do we lead, and at the same time let the sheep graze on the word and share their experiences with everyone?Being a shepherd is a great responsibility, but what is more of a responsiblity being a shepherd of the flock or being a born again believer in the church of the living God. I suppose I am highlighting the personal responsibility of every believer before God to excercise their right/privilege/responsibility before God and share what they know.Its difficult because you have babes and you have mature believers in the group, and you certainly cannot treat them all the same.

Has anyone had any contact or experience of the George Patterson Spontaneous Multiplication of churches programme?While I am not familiar with it I do like it's "biotic" or "organic" concept of church. I believe Jesus used parables of seeds, soil, trees, and fruit not because Israel was a farming society but because these things capture the essence of how the Kingdom increases. Much of the body of Christ, being alive, does living things without supervision like breathng and eating...If I feed my children good food, teach them to exercise, and keep them desease free their bodies will grow. I do not need to grow my children...they do that spontaneously.I think the bible is rather silent on technocratic operational structure regarding church organization. (Sometimes frustratingly so...)My own conclusion as to why this is so, is because God knows that men are happiest when life can be routinized and systemized...control can be more comfortable to our natures then the unpredictable presense of God. Could we agree that too many attempts at church today are overengineered?The best government and organizational ecclesia should merely be an outward cooperation of a deeper leadership truth found in 1 Peter 5. If we are indifferent to this most important leadership concept of reproduction, even with excellent outward management the church will still become deformed. It does not matter whether we meet in homes, high schools, warehouses, temples, or prisons. If we are healthy examples to our children they stand a better chance of growing up healthy and raising healthy children of their own. Our systemic approaches to church leadership should support and not hinder this organic and spiritual principle: reproduction by example.MC

For an excellent study which is well grounded in scripture i reccommend the lesser know 'The Normal Christian CHURCH life' by watchman nee. He draws a very tight outline from the scriptures, and includes what a church actually is with regards to scripture, how it is to be run, how the elders are selected etc..it's available at a very reasonable price of $6.99 from amazon.com I'm reading it at the moment and it's excellent.(this is not an advert for amazon.com) ;-)

Has anyone had any contact or experience of the George Patterson Spontaneous Multiplication of churches programme?I just received my full copy of this and am very impressed with what I am reading. I think, Zeke, this would be the kind of provocative concept that you would enjoy. Here is an excerpt: So, as you read this chapters, if you objectively and prayerfully examine your traditions you may find that some run counter to what Jesus and His apostles clearly require us to do. These may include:organization structures, especially to harmonize gift-based ministriesevangelistic technique and follow-up procedureChristian education methods, especially for dealing with familiesworship practices, especially for small groupschurch spending priorities and attitudes towards wealthleadership training philosophyformation and activities of home groupsmissionary placement programmesmission agency management as it deals with giftingtask group formationinter-church polity for mutual cooperationdisciplinary correction policiesI am looking forward to seeing how they deal with these topics. ;-)

philologos wrote:I am looking forward to seeing how they deal with these topics.So am I. :-D

Ron,Perhaps I missed it, but is this article just a small section from a book? If so, what is the full name of the book?God bless

Hey Ron, I just printed out and read That section "The Spontaneous Multiplication of Churches" by George Patterson and really enjoyed it. This is something that I am/have been praying about for quite some time.I have about 8-10 men that I am going to begin discipling here in Escondido, California in September. Some are from established church life and others are ones that the Lord has saved and is using today. But I know that is where the Lord is taking the ministry He has given me in preaching here in a park here in Escondido. Thank you, brother, for putting that link up here.I would also be interested in how the rest of that book is..."Spontaneous reproduction of churches means the Holy Spirit moves a church to reproduce daughter churches on it's own, without outsiders pushing it (Acts 13:1-3)."Acts 13:1-2 have been foundational in the Lord leading/prepping me to do this very thing. That is my desire...not that I would push anything, but that the Holy Spirit would speak and say, "Seperate unto Me..."Blessings.

ZekeO,There is no substitute for the original. Read the book of Acts, and do what they did. A great sermon on this is by Curtis Hutson entitled, "New Testament Pattern for Church Building," available here under the heading, "Church Building":http://www.wilderness-cry.net/realpreaching.htmlExcerpt:"Years ago I read the story of a city that was built around a spring. The spring had good water. People heard about it, and they would drive for miles to get a jug of that water just to have drinking water. Some even thought the water had medicinal value to it, others bathed in it, thought it would cure aches and pains. But the fame of the water spread abroad and people drove from far and wide, and some drove for many miles." "One man decided, 'Why drive here every few days to get fresh water. Why don't I just build a house near this spring, then I'll not have to drive.' The idea caught on and several others built a house around the spring, and then others built. After a while there was a small town, and then by and by a larger town, and then a large city." "Years later a man heard about that story, and thought he'd like to visit the city and see the spring. And so he visited. Walking down the street of the city he stopped a young man and said, 'Where is the spring.' And the young fellow said, 'What spring?' He knew nothing about the story of the spring. And I think sometimes in religious circles, and in fundamental circles included, that if we're not careful we'll forget the spring, where it all began.""I think we're probably guilty of making copies of copies."

Thank you guys for the thread … this is something near and dear to my heart. About 16 years ago, I attended a church planting seminar in Thailand where George Patterson taught on spontaneous multiplication of churches. (I remember George as a mild, gentle man … until, that is, he started speaking about the “wolves” that would try to come in and destroy young church plants. Then, we saw some fire. :-) ) I was just arrived on the field (Taiwan), and in the very initial stages of trying to begin a church planting work. George’s teaching helped to establish some foundations to work from … principles of what church is and how it should operate that are part of our ministry DNA to this day. That said, we didn’t just adopt his model of church planting in a wholesale manner. Over the years, we’ve borrowed principles and strategies from several different models – all in trying to develop what’s right for this people, in this culture, at this time. I don’t think that “one size fits all” where church planting is concerned. (I believe that George’s model was based out of his ministry in the British Honduras.) One of the greatest issues that George (and others) challenged us with is how to plant a church that would result in a movement instead of just a single church. I’ve found that if the structure is not laid at the beginning for this to happen – and the seeds of multiplication are not planted early on – then chances are not good for successful “spontaneity” to occur. It’s a bit ironic that this spontaneity comes from proactive structure, planning, and discipline. Our job as church planters is to establish a foundation in the church that can actually result in “multipliability”, and to get rid of every thing that will hinder such a movement. (And release the Spirit to do His work in the church.) This is not so easy as it seems, primarily because we church planters tend to bring our own backgrounds and traditions into the church structure that we are trying to plant. This is where the proactive structure, planning, and discipline come in. To think through the models that will work, and then focus hard on implementing them so WE don’t get in the way. I realize that some people might be opposed to the ideas of “strategy” and “structure” where church planting is concerned, but I don’t believe these things must necessarily be anti-Spirit. I am amazed by the brilliant strategies and structure that Paul employed in his church planting efforts. Most of Acts and Paul’s letters – set squarely in the context of planting churches – reveal some pretty wise planning. (And what wasn’t wise –whether from timing or other reasons – the Spirit intervened to change. Think Acts 16:6-7.)Well, sorry to bore! I just tend to get excited where church planting is concerned. :-)By the way, you might also want to check out the “Church Planting Movements” booklet by David Garrison on behalf of the Southern Baptist IMB. It’s THE guide book these days for how to start multiplying churches.Bless you guys!

HakkaMin,No 'boring' apologies needed. This is exactly where I am right now. The Lord is leading me in my ministry to do this very thing. I would apprecite all of your prayers and input as I seek His face to step out and move forward in this direction.

Hi JimmyThe portion a linked to was a chapter (87?),I suspect it was from a journal or book of 'church multiplication' themes. But I also have a book Church Multiplication Guide by Patterson and Scoggins.Those who know my contributions to this theme will know how suspicious I am of techniques and methodologies, but I like the 'mood' of what I am reading. It is high cost it terms of the commitment required but low-tech in everything else. One of the features of this 'philosophy' is what the book describes as 'learning the New Testament way: "hear and do, hear and do, hear and do". NOT "hear, hear, hear and maybe sometime later do".The theme of spiritual DNA in a group or church is also of interest to me. assembly DNA is a fascinating topic. Like produces like; is the basic reproductive fact of life. I also like the fact that this whole concept is not 'Church Growth' (who needs a fat church? ) but Church Multiplication. The Acts was never intended to be a manual for church multiplication or growth and I would be reluctant to use it as 'the blueprint' but there are principles which we do well to identify and which as we seek God for personal/local application could be very profitable for the Master.HakkaMinThank you for your input. I was interested to hear of someone who had experienced the concept first hand. Would you have any stories to tell us of these things?

No one is allowed to lead in our Church, but the Pastor.Personally, I feel like he has too much control.We have Elders, but they don't have much say so.Our Pastor just got in the pulpit recently, and called up this man and woman, and said they were the Associate Pastors.The couple was our Youth leaders.God Bless one and all.Nellie :-) :-)

Ok, I'm guilty, I felt provoked to buy the book out of much curiosity, and a deepening sense of doing missions one day. Any other recommended reading in missions would be more than welcomed.