Amish and Mennonites experiencing revival

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMq6C5q6H6A

Amen 🙏, your welcome brother

Brothers.

The report and your praise of it may be 100% accurate and Spiritual. My only question is how did you arrive at "it is so” versus "praise God if it is so”? I’m not being negative in the least but absolutely optimistic and realistic. I have listened to and liked Todd White on some things he’s said and been cautious about others. That isn’t even the real question. My question would be for both of you as to the absolute conclusion that what is said is fully, partially or not true. I long for salvation, revival, and growth down, out and up. Yet on the field ( from a lot of experience) we know caution and patience because the real story isn’t always the first thing you hear. This isn’t just a question of wisdom but also concern for getting on roller coaster rides that in the end discourage greatly or defeat completely. I know some might think that a word of caution is pessimistic. On the contrary, we hope for the best but realize the schemes meant to overcome. If you think I’m being too cautious, walk a few miles in others’ shoes.

Brother Gary. I honestly love your enthusiasm and hopeful expectation but every thing you’ve said in the past that glitters has not been gold. I say that not to discourage but to urge temperance.

And lest you wonder, I hope and pray all of what was shared is actually an understatement of the move of God. I’m not assuming g the negative. We just don’t know merely because of a YouTube.

Brother Gary,

I knew it was coming. After you posted the video that Todd White did, I anticipated that the flaming arrows of skepticism would come, just as they have on the posts concerning Vlad. There is nothing wrong with being cautious, but can’t we praise God when He is working through a vessel that we would consider not up to our religious standards.

"but examine everything; hold firmly to that which is good,” ( 1 Thessalonians 5:21)

Yes brother Mike I did have the same feeling but so far only a very faint flaming dart 😀👏

Brother Robert I use spiritual discernment. You talk about being cautious I can't agree 100% with any preacher or theologian I've ever read that doesn't mean I can't rejoice with those who are rejoicing and experience the same joy and resonate with the same spirit of unity.

To me that's a type of double-mindedness one can never get the benefit of faith and the blessing that comes through belief and embracing other people's Joy and other people's blessings.

The best way to shut off Joy and blessing in our own life is to not rejoice with those who are rejoicing and weep with those who are weeping.

I won't spiritually distance myself from what I know God is doing in the Earth today and I know who he's doing it through because I've tasted it and it transformed my life and brought a measure of freedom that I had not experienced.

It was judgment and skepticism and suspicion that kept me in bondage, it was a form of unbelief to delegate what God is doing to the flesh or the devil, and that my friend is a dangerous place to be in.

What the religious spirit does that is active in the Christian church is it doesn't recognize those sins and loves to point out the other sins in people not realizing that judgment and unbelief and skepticism etc. are just as dangerous as committing adultery and lying and other sins.

So I ended up refusing to stay in that state of perpetual sin which I was in for 15 years possibly, and the son of God set me free from those particular sins that I thought were religious piety and the gift of rebuking and reproving and recognizing what didn't line up with my limited understanding of spiritual life.

So what happens to me dear brother is when I begin to judge someone wrongly who may be experiencing the holy spirit they may be babes in Christ or what have you but when I do that I quench and grieve the holy spirit and come under conviction and so I've learned to repent and I've tried to learn to not fall into that sin, so I err on the side of caution when it comes to judgment and unbelief skepticism suspicion, rather than the side of caution the way I used to by rejecting what I did not approve of nor understand because it didn't line up with my theological box that I created.

Personal freedom and the joy of the spirit is more important to me because God gets more Glory out of my life and gets more praise from me, so it's about walking in the spirit and not fulfilling the desires of the flesh for the flesh lusts against the spirit and the spirit against the flesh so you do not do those things and think those things that you should 🙏✝️.

To put it in layman's terms is you can't fully practice love in that condition and therefore can't fulfill the two most important commandments love the Lord your God with all your heart mind soul and strength and love your neighbor as yourself.

So what I find is my freedom and joy is attached and based upon my rejoicing for the freedom and joy that others receive from my master. Even when things turn out to be the flesh or a spirit of divination operating,that still requires love and a standing in the gap with tears for those who are operating or deceived by an unclean spirit, what I found is there's an unclean spirit that operates as a religious spirit within the church and masquerades as the holy spirit and that is probably the biggest problem in the church because it exists in every denomination where there's no spirit of revival moving it's normally replaced by a religious demonic spirit that operates eventually.

The biggest critics of the moves of the holy spirit throughout the history of the church in every revival of the Spirit always operated out of a demonic unclean religious spirit whose prime function was and is to cause judgment unbelief and suspicion to become a stronghold and a part of the religious faith, and it becomes a strong deception that becomes a vision blocking log in the eye of those who continue on in that sin.🙏✝️🕎

Here is a message by Todd White:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORFZRgYBFn4

Nothing is more serious then presenting a false Gospel.
May the Lord have mercy and may He help us and give us understanding.

Markus

Tod white and Dr Michael Brown talk about Jesus becoming sin. For a little context and clarity https://youtu.be/k7s60JpHLNw?si=-QNJYcWjDzLeyFj0. What it means for Jesus as the scapegoat and
to bear all our sins in his own body on the tree, and to become a curse for us

Brothagary,

did you watch the video that our brother posted of Todd White?
Most disturbing. It's only 3 minutes. If you did or you do, what do you think ? This isn't an issue of someone falling short of Christ's likeness. We are all broken and fallible. No one is arguing that a person with an old man can't be gifted. That is a red herring. This kind of "gospel" that Todd White shared is the kind that potentially disqualifies.

That was not my point anyway. I can totally accept that you spiritually discern that something is of God. If that is how you see it, then make it personal in that way. That is fine for you. The issue is that you seem to impose your discernment and suggest those who don't discern the same as you operate from a bad motive or unclean spirit. That is a judgment, not a Biblical argument.

From a prophetic standpoint, which is where you are arguing, prophesies like "this is a revival" are subject to the prophets. Is that how others in the body recognize you ? I'm not attacking or suggesting you aren't. Just trying to figure out where your confidence level comes from to impose your view on others and say that others in disagreement or even less, urging patience, are using worldly demonic wisdom.

And for clarity, I wasn't suggesting that this is or isn't a move of God. I said I hope it is. Just suggesting patience and prudence as it's a youtube account and it's by a guy who has his own wisdom issues.

If you get defensive when anyone contradicts your discernment or call of a revival that is a personal issue to be dealt with.

I've dealt with a dozen false claims of people being raised from the dead, as an example of a claimed move of God in foreign contexts. To say that I should accept the next claim and rejoice with the claimants who are hoodwinking locals and foreigners is not an argument, it is a recipe for disaster.

Anyway, I don't want to come off as defensive. I don't take your or Mike's comments to heart as I don't know you guys and you don't know me. Just take my words and see caution and prudence. What's wrong with waiting to see how things turn out. Pray into it for sure. But calling the event early is a prophetic step and like stated, subject to the prophets.

Thanks for the update Gary
The Lord might still work in Todd's life and use him.

But it is still wise to use spiritual discernment and being cautious as CofG explained it
There are several other things that concern me in the OP, but I won't comment further.

Markus

Hi Robert I don't find text message as being the best way to communicate a person's heart it would be good if they had an audio recording that way you can get the tone of the person's passion and whether a person is speaking gently or getting upset.

Brother you asked me a question and I'm just answering a question rather than just saying yes or no or making it short I'm speaking from my heart and I give you the reason for why I feel the way I do about certain things,

I've never been one to give a short and sweet little answer my wife will tell you that,its probably one of the crosses she has to bear tongue and cheek.

Yes I did watch the short clip I would have to say did you watch the whole sermon and have you maybe watched 20 or 30 other sermons from white to get a context on what he actually preaches about that would be a better idea

many people tend to take people like Todd out of context they do it to bill Johnson as well and I could list quite a few others and it becomes cherry picking, hearing something that you don't agree with don't like and then assuming that disqualifies someone or something to that effect.

Have you noticed quite a lot of people do that with the Bible and you never get a good understanding on what the whole Bible means until you study everything that said.

I've watched hundreds of sermons or listened to of Paul washer and I got the good idea on what he believes and teaches I've probably listen to about 30 or 40 Todd White sermons possibly more than that and he's very strict preaching about repentance very convicting messages on walking in holiness and has a good grasp on the blood of Christ the new birth the baptism of the spirit and so I would just suggest if you think he's preaching a false gospel then listen to a few more sermons before you judge, one of his mentors is Dr Michael Brown so you couldn't really ask for a better one.

I don't feel like impose my discernment on others but like everyone else we all believe what we believe and therefore we speak and that's part of what the apostle Paul said god did and therefore he did and so we all do,

I feel strongly about a truth that when you've been set free and delivered from unclean spirits and set free from sin those are the areas that you gain privilege and opportunity and obligation to minister to others because of understanding it in your own life and so when it comes to the sin of judgment and unbelief and suspicion these were things that the holy spirit dealt with me quite severely and I feel that they are overlooked by many Christians and I want Christians to be joyful full of peace and free from the sins that I've experienced freedom from I have a heart for drug addicts and alcoholics and people that have run with the wrong crowd because I've also been down that road, other people like yourself may feel called to minister exhort encourage others in different areas of sin and bondage.

Believe it or not brother which is a saying we use here in Australia , I get my confidence from the holy spirit with fear and trembling literally, there are many things that I'm not very confident in when it comes to teaching like eschatology so I don't really concern myself too much with that just the things that I've experienced in my life which is freedom from sin in the pursuit of holiness experiencing the power of the holy spirit and the spirit of prayer and supplication things like that I find extremely important that confidence and conviction is something that you can't shake it burns in your bones and for the last 10 years I resisted speaking a lot of different things I actually try to be Swift to hear and slow to speak I probably spent about 6 years reading the posts of index and not participate in comments because I didn't feel I was permitted at the time.

Brother I make it an issue to never respond out of being defensive I generally don't debate. Much of my ministry is media ministry where I release prophecies or a teaching an exhortation for half an hour or two and I don't debate because I spent years debating on sermon index this is the second time iv been in sermon index and I refuse to get into fruitless debates for me it's sin much of the time so I don't want to get in that track.

I'll just leave you with one verse that I can remember that the apostle Paul said and I'm sure you would believe it he said the spiritual man judges and discerns all things yet he himself is rightly judged and discerned by no man.

I'm still growing in my faith about 27 years but I believe that the spiritual man when we reach a level we get discernment on two levels within the character of our new nature and our new man that's been created according to God in true righteousness and holiness and through the gift of discerning of spirits and if we believe and desire that gift and if we have grown in spiritual maturity to a certain point whereby we are filled with the spirit and we are men that walk full of the spirit in our daily life we will be able to discern if something is of the spirit or if it's of a demon or if it's of the flesh that's not the say we can't make mistakes but Jesus and the apostle Paul and the writer of Hebrews expects us to reach a point where we can discern good from evil like it says in the letter to the Hebrews and move away from drinking milk only move on to solid food and

not lay again the foundations of repentance from dead works of faith towards god of the doctrines of baptisms and of the laying on of hands and this we will do if god permits end quote. Please don't take this message as me being upset or offended I appreciate your gentle approach to communicating and if we were speaking through audio message or person I'm sure that you would see that I'm actually quite a gentle dude but just wants people to be filled with God's love

I weep and weep at times for people to come into maturity and for Christians in particularly to be happy in the spirit and free from the besetting sins to be honest that's all I really care about it and also for sinners to come to Christ. 😀🙏🙋

Your welcome Markus

Some time ago Greg posted on accusations made against Todd White and I agree with him. There have been accusations made on this forum mostly by the same people that are false and use snippets from articles or sermons in an attempt to prove their point.

Todd White has publicly repented on some of his previous stands on various issues.

Saints,

It is pretty hard to really speak conclusively when we quote articles trying to demonize someone and do not speak to the actual invidual or watch recordings in context.

from Todd White's website it says:

We believe that there is one God, eternally existent in three persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Matthew 28:19; John 10:30; Ephesians 4:4-6.

We believe in the deity of the Lord Jesus Christ, in His virgin birth, in His sinless life, in His miracles, in His vicarious and atoning death through His shed blood on the cross, in His bodily resurrection, in His ascension to the right hand of the Father, and in His personal return in power and glory. Matthew 1:23; John 1:1-4 and 1:29; Acts 1:11 and 2:22-24; Romans 8:34; 1 Corinthians 15:3-4; 2 Corinthians 5:21; Philippians 2:5-11; Hebrews 1:1-4 and 4:15.

from: https://lifestylechristianity.com/our-beliefs/

Whether he fully holds to the Full Godhead and manhood of Jesus Christ is a question that has to be asked, perhaps those who are accusing strongly on this thread can take the time to email their ministry with that specific question?

We can all disagree over many things, I wrote about this in a free ebook:

Disagreements in Christian Life
https://www.amazon.com/Disagreements-Christian-Life-Greg-Gordon-ebook/dp/B07MPQL9CX/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=

Slander is a terrible sin. Let us protect ourselves from it and repent. To correct another in such a strong way as to call them a false teacher really needs to be qualified by those who have spoken with him personally and with those who are in ordained ministry who share in the burden of keeping the Church pure from false teachings.

We would ask you also read slowly what is on every page before you post:

All our communication matters in the Lord and we ask that you consider that all our words will be accounted for by God one day: Matthew 12:36, James 1:26, Colossians 4:6. Speak with gentleness, with a servants heart. Imagine our Lord in the same room with you watching what you say to other believers. Speak to edify and love others and choose not always to be right but rather right in your attitude of humility and humbling yourself.

_________________
SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

Satan holds to the fundamentals too; he knows there is one God in three persons; he probably witnessed the virgin birth of Jesus with his own eyes; he knows men are saved by grace through faith etc. Like A.W. Tozer said, "The devil is a better theologian than any of us, and is a devil still."

So just because Todd White can spout the fundamentals means nothing.

He is on record saying Kenneth Copeland is his "father in the faith." He did a whole video to this effect. With Kenneth Copeland.

I love the people on this site, even the ones who disagree with me. But I ask myself how a sound believer can endorse guys like Copeland that preach another gospel. He has erred from the faith through covetousness (1 Timothy 6:9,10.)

I think it's quite foolish to promote the idea of guilt by association. A lot of people respected and invited Ravi Zacharias into their churches to speak and I would say 90% of the the listeners and the participators on this forum would have went to see him speak if it was possible, one of his mentors was Leonard Ravenhill, with that corrupted type of mindset of guilt by association we would have to disassociate and condemn Leonard RavenHill and everyone that liked rabbis Zacharias because he turned out to be a predator and of a very high order. This is the same sort of thing people did with Bob Jones and Rick Joyner and others because they associated with Todd Bentley. The Bible is literally jam packed with warnings of not falling away from the faith or to receive another spirit and this is a regular occurrence many people start out good, most people start out good and get born again and some fall away into cults and legalism or receiving other spirit but guilt by association is not a safe way to judge people. Chan has suffered from that from many fundamentalists and Ultra conservatives because of his association with Kansas City Mike bickel and other Third wave charismatics. When Francis Chan went to Kansas City and spoke an experienced the spirit that was moving in the church that might Bickell overseas he knew straight away he was in the presence of brothers and sisters in the Faith it wasn't what he was taught by men that were of the fundamentalist type of nature. Many people need to come out of their own personal Vatican, our degrees and opinions and doctrines and theology are not infallible, other people's theology that's based solely in the scripture is just as valid in a sense as ours even if we don't agree with it and think that it's wrong we must have Grace and patience and love for those that differ otherwise we just move into a place where the denominational spirit will take over our hearts and our faith becomes a faith of division a religion of division the doctrine of rebuke and reprove becomes our God, and we can become like the apostle Paul before conversion thinking that we're doing God a service, instead we're working for the enemy without knowing it that's how subtle this deception is. And that type of deception always operates and functions where there is lack of love and joy of the holy spirit.

The apostle Paul as an apostolic leader stood and condemned Peter as as a hypocrite and Barnabas and many others were carried along with the legalism and the judaizing which in other places Paul literally called a false gospel, Peter literally shrunk back and started to teach the gentiles to keep the law of Moses which was clearly condemned in the letters of Paul yet Peter was still considered a brother and a leader in the church and more than likely amended his ways how long it took it makes no difference even if you believe a brother is teaching legalism through an old covenant mindset or some hyper charismatic teaching that you don't believe in you still don't have permission to reject them and treat them like they are not brothers in Christ. The apostle James literally harboured the worst kinds of legalists in his church or under his authority yet the apostle James wasn't guilty by association this was something that the the Hebrew church in the first century had to deal with and tried to work out for themselves the apostle Paul clearly condemned it but James still remained the leader while he was in some people's eyes guilty by association I say that tongue in cheek. Was the apostle James a false Christian because he had judaizers in his church and under his authority.?

Every time I try to point out the danger, all the tropes come out: I'm unloving, legalistic, pharisaical, condemnatory etc.

Gary, I'm none of those things. I am just unwilling to open up the door to the sheepfold, let the wolves in, and browbeat the sheep when the wolves start tearing them apart. "Don't you dare judge! That "sheep" is just like you! Never mind the fangs and the hungry eyes! Call them brothers!"

Please understand, I'm not the one causing the problems: it's these people. They're hirelings. Are some people under their ministries saved? I believe so. God can work in the worst of circumstances.

As for guilt by association; it can be a valid concern. I love Ravenhill, I have read all of his books multiple times and heard most of his sermons. But his discernment wasn't perfect (neither is mine.) So I don't judge someone's theology or ministry by his standards: the scriptures can't be clearer. If someone is using the ministry to live a lavish lifestyle and they use the pulpit to gain money, or in Paul's words, they are "turned aside after filthy lucre," they are not saved. The most loving thing you can do is warn them, pray for them, and then warn others.

I have the joy of the Lord. I don't believe anyone can truly have it if they are not concerned for the church. It's the bride of Christ. I can't stand by while these men try to violate His bride.

Hi,

What does it mean to be free and what does it mean to be legalistic?

We the belivers, obey Christ Jesus because we are thankful for setting us free from bondage to sin and death. Because of our sins we deserve to die and burn in hell but God in His mercy sent His Son Jesus Christ to die for us and was raised to life by the power of the Holy Spirit. And when Jesus comes back, we will be raised from the dead by the power of the Holy Spirit and we will see Jesus. That is why we obey Christ Jesus and want to know Him by spending time with Him through the Scriptures and prayer and by loving our neighbors which He commanded us to do. Instead of going to man for guidance, let's go to the Lord Jesus Christ in prayer and reading the Word because Jesus is the Word of God that came to us in flesh. When you have Wisdom and Understanding which is Jesus Christ, you will be able to discern if the preacher is true or false.
God bless you

Jesus Himself gave us clear standards of judgment and discernment, and I believe it was to avoid debates over doctrine and mans traditions and various interpretations.

"You will know them by their fruits" - not their teaching, not their associations, not their paperwork, not miracles or signs, not even by outward shows of piety, but by the obvious life in adherence to the sermon on the mount which can only be accomplished if Jesus dwells within and lives it out using them as vessels/branches.

Apart from Jesus words, no one really has any ground to stand on, no matter how logical and reasoned the argument sounds.