Jesus Christ the Human man was nothing but a container.

We have already looked into the life of Adam the first. Let us look at Adam the second. We touch a mystery here, for He was both God and man on earth; but for our present purpose we will only look at Him as He certainly was-true man. The Son of Man was what He loved to call Himself; the Jesus of Nazareth whom Peter said God anointed with the Holy Ghost and with power, and who went about doing good, as other men since with the same anointing.

What then were the secret resources of this sinless life, perfect in holiness, mighty in word and work? John tells us in his gospel, for the same gospel which supremely emphasizes His Godhead, also gives us the profoundest insight into His manhood. How striking that the one thing He was always saying about Himself was that He was nothing! They challenged Him on the healing of the impotent man. His answer was, "The Son can do nothing of Himself; but what He seeth the Father do: for what things soever He doeth, these doeth the Son likewise." They challenged Him on the judgments He passed; "I can of Mine own self do nothing", was His reply, "as I hear, I judge." They questioned Him about His doctrines. "My doctrine is not mine, but His that sent me", was His answer. "If any man will do His will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of Myself" His very life was derived from Another. He said, "As the living Father bath sent me, and I live by the Father; so he that cateth Me, even he shall live by Me." In other words, He was living by "eating" the Father.

But He gave the supreme revelation in the most important conversation ever recorded on earth, His talk with His own at the Last Supper. We have already referred to this, but the vital importance was that for the first time in human history He was revealing to the human heart and mind the mystery of the union life. The disciples had never understood Him. How could they, when the Spirit of inner revelation was not yet given? They saw but a human being so often speaking to them about His Father, and that He derived all His wisdom and power from His Father. Where then was the Father? For He was now telling them that He was leaving them to go to His Father. They could only look at things in terms of space and time. They always saw things on the material level. He was on earth among them, His Father was in heaven. Now He was to leave them as orphans, and return to His Father. What should they do? What proof could they give that He had really gone back to Him? And so Philip made a direct request,

"Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us." Open the heavens and give us one sight of Him, and we can face the world with confidence, he meant. Then came the supreme revelation. "He that hath seen me hath seen the Father: and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?" If that was all He had said, we might surmise He meant that He and the Father were one Person, and to see One was to see the Other. But He did not. He went on to say, "Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself, but the Father that dwelleth in me, He doeth the works." The great secret was out at last. All these years among them He had been living as a man in hidden union with the Father. As perfect man, He fully knew His natural nothingness and constantly spoke of it; but He also knew that man was created to be indwelt by God, and He had always known that indwelling so completely that all His mighty words and deeds were not His, but the Father’s, with Himself the container, the co-worker. He had said He did nothing by Himself, but what He saw the Father do. They thought He must have some telescopic sight into heaven; now they knew that He looked within. He said He only spoke what He heard, they thought He meant a voice from heaven; now they knew it was an inner voice.

And so this perfect Man shows us perfectly the hidden meaning of creation-the creature nothing but a container, the Creator living His own life in the creature, both distinct beings, both thinking, feeling, willing, acting; yet the one the nothing, the Other the all, the perfect polarity of creature and Creator, redeemed and Redeemer: and in this relationship both living life in its fullness, with every faculty put to its fullest use, for a whole man is really God in a man. And when this law of life is clearly seen in both Adams, we all can see that the Christian revelation of Christ in me by grace through faith is not just some pleasing and convenient addition to life, which I can take or leave. It is life. There is no other life (1 John 5:11,12). "Abide in Me, and I in you-for without Me ye can do nothing."9 It is the fundamental necessity if I am ever to know life and live it according to its predestined pattern.

Norman Grubb
----------------------------

Now we have this SAME LIFE within us and that LIFE NOW is our secret resource of our sinless life, perfect in holiness, mighty in word and work.

1 Corinthians 15:47 (KJV)

"The first man [is] of the earth, earthy: the second man [is] the Lord from heaven.”

…………….
elizabeth

[Jesus Christ the Human man was nothing but a container.]

Hmm, nor sure about that statement.

Jesus being fully human and very God, must have possessed and still posesses a soul as we humans have it. If his human body was only a container, there would not be room for a human soul. He was also filled with the Holy Spirit at baptism. We see this when God forsook him for some agonizing hours from Getsemaneh, via Gabbatha until Golgotha.
This was the greatest suffering any being has ever experienced born by a man stripped of his divine attributes while still being God. The incorporation of righteousess and holiness became sin and bore the undiluted wrath of the father who still loved him while he forsook him! Naked, bleeding with swatches a torn skin the the mere sight of him hanging on the cross must have been unbearable.

Still, it is a mystery with infinite depth. I believe, even in glory we will not cease to marvel about this mystery.

So we have two ideas here.
1) The hypostatic union. Namely that Jesus was at once both fully God and fully Man, retaining all of the attributes of both at the same time.
2) The idea that Jesus was not God while on Earth. The idea that He completely emptied Himself of His God-ness if you will to become man.

Many of the modern Charismatic movement teach very strongly the second position. Most orthodox believers (Not Eastern Orthodox, but simply those who hold to the orthodox interpretations of scripture) would hold to the hypostatic union.

I actually think it was something in between the two. Jesus NEVER stopped being God, although He was in the flesh. Yet, I believe, He subjected Himself to the limits of manhood with one very important distinction. The Bible says He was anointed with the Holy Spirit without measure. So we have God (the third person of the trinity), condescending to my estate to suffer and die in my place. Yet He was always God, and had an anointing of the Spirit of God that knew no limits. In that case, He could know what was in the mind of the Pharisees (due to the gift of the word of knowledge), yet genuinely not know who in the crowd touched Him (the woman with the issue of blood).

I think the second view, and the one that Grubb seems to be espousing, is an error and is not scriptural. This view is usually used as the setup for the idea that we can have the same level of anointing as Jesus had and as such, one day, we will see super-Christians doing all the miracles of Jesus. This is a huge doctrinal error in my opinion. He was anointed without measure. We have been given a measure, the earnest of our inheritance, a down payment if you will. Same Holy Spirit. Different anointing and different measure.

Just my thoughts as of right now. My mind could be changed, but it would go the direction of hypostatic union and not the other way, as the other way is off in the weeds.

The hypostatic union is the biblical position
The reason it is such an important doctrine as the cults do not believe that jesus is God
It is written in the actual biblical manuscripts in something called the nomina sacra
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomina_sacra?wprov=sfla1

It is even in a mosiac in Israel that is states jesus is God
https://creation.com/early-mosaic-calls-jesus-god

The word kuroius or lord is the same word as the word Yahweh in the old testament

Also you have the fact that jesus is called
Is 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, [2] Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

The fact that this doctrine makes us different than all the cults

There is so many ways that jesus says he is god
Putting Jesus in His Place: The Case for the Deity of Christ https://amzn.eu/d/fseOoBE

This is such a good book for it

The famous Verse where jesus says
ΚΑΤΑ ΙΩΑΝΝΗΝ 20:28 Greek NT: Nestle 1904
ἀπεκρίθη Θωμᾶς καὶ εἶπεν αὐτῷ Ὁ Κύριός μου καὶ ὁ Θεός μου.

My lord and god

The deity of jesus and the fact that he is both fully God and fully man is so important as it is important for him dying for our sin

Colossians 2:9 ESV / 31 helpful votes
For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,

John 1:14 ESV / 31 helpful votes
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

John 1:1 ESV / 19 helpful votes
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

1 Timothy 2:5 ESV / 15 helpful votes
For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Romans 1:4 ESV / 13 helpful votes
And was declared to be the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord,

John 10:30 ESV / 11 helpful votes
I and the Father are one.”

John 17:5 ESV / 10 helpful votes
And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.

John 8:58 ESV / 10 helpful votes
Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”

Hebrews 2:14 ESV / 7 helpful votes
Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil,

1 John 1:1-3 ESV / 6 helpful votes
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life”” the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us”” that which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 1:3 ESV / 6 helpful votes
He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

Philippians 2:6 ESV / 6 helpful votes
Who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,

Galatians 4:4 ESV / 6 helpful votes
But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law,

John 11:25 ESV / 6 helpful votes
Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live,

John 3:16 ESV / 6 helpful votes
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Luke 2:52 ESV / 6 helpful votes
And Jesus increased in wisdom and in stature and in favor with God and man.

1 Corinthians 8:6 ESV / 5 helpful votes
Yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

John 20:28 ESV / 5 helpful votes
Thomas answered him, "My Lord and my God!”

John 14:28 ESV / 5 helpful votes
You heard me say to you, ‘I am going away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.

John 3:13 ESV / 5 helpful votes
No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.

John 1:3 ESV / 5 helpful votes
All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Luke 2:7 ESV / 5 helpful votes
And she gave birth to her firstborn son and wrapped him in swaddling cloths and laid him in a manger, because there was no place for them in the inn.

Matthew 16:16 ESV / 5 helpful votes
Simon Peter replied, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

Genesis 1:26 ESV / 5 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

Colossians 1:15 ESV / 4 helpful votes
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

Ephesians 1:22 ESV / 4 helpful votes
And he put all things under his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church,

Romans 9:5 ESV / 4 helpful votes
To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen.

John 14:6 ESV / 4 helpful votes
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Luke 1:35 ESV / 4 helpful votes
And the angel answered her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy””the Son of God.

Matthew 28:20 ESV / 4 helpful votes
Teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

Matthew 1:23 ESV / 4 helpful votes
"Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel” (which means, God with us).

Hebrews 13:8 ESV / 3 helpful votes
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

Hebrews 7:26 ESV / 3 helpful votes
For it was indeed fitting that we should have such a high priest, holy, innocent, unstained, separated from sinners, and exalted above the heavens.

1 Timothy 3:16 ESV / 3 helpful votes
Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

Philippians 2:6-8 ESV / 3 helpful votes
Who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

Romans 8:11 ESV / 3 helpful votes
If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.

Romans 8:1-39 ESV / 3 helpful votes
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. ...

John 19:28 ESV / 3 helpful votes
After this, Jesus, knowing that all was now finished, said (to fulfill the Scripture), "I thirst.”

John 14:26 ESV / 3 helpful votes
But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

John 6:53 ESV / 3 helpful votes
So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.

Luke 3:1-38 ESV / 3 helpful votes
In the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilate being governor of Judea, and Herod being tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip tetrarch of the region of Ituraea and Trachonitis, and Lysanias tetrarch of Abilene, during the high priesthood of Annas and Caiaphas, the word of God came to John the son of Zechariah in the wilderness. And he went into all the region around the Jordan, proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. As it is written in the book of the words of Isaiah the prophet, "The voice of one crying in the wilderness: ‘Prepare the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be made low, and the crooked shall become straight, and the rough places shall become level ways, ...

Matthew 28:19 ESV
Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Matthew 18:15 ESV
"If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother.

Matthew 4:2 ESV
And after fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry.

Matthew 4:1 ESV
Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.

Malachi 3:6 ESV
"For I the Lord do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed.

Revelation 19:16 ESV
On his robe and on his thigh he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords.

1 John 4:8 ESV
Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.

1 John 4:1 ESV
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.

1 Peter 3:22 ESV
Who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him.

1 Peter 2:21 ESV
For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you might follow in his steps.

James 2:19 ESV
You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe””and shudder!

Hebrews 12:2 ESV
Looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.

Hebrews 10:5 ESV
Consequently, when Christ came into the world, he said, "Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired, but a body have you prepared for me;

Hebrews 4:15 ESV
For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.

Hebrews 2:7 ESV
You made him for a little while lower than the angels; you have crowned him with glory and honor,

Hebrews 1:8 ESV
But of the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.

Hebrews 1:1-2 ESV
Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.

Titus 2:13 ESV
Waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,

1 Timothy 2:5-6 ESV
For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.

1 Thessalonians 1:10 ESV
And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

Colossians 3:11 ESV
Here there is not Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave, free; but Christ is all, and in all.

Colossians 2:3 ESV
In whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

Colossians 1:17 ESV
And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Colossians 1:16 ESV
For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities””all things were created through him and for him.

Philippians 2:11 ESV
And every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Philippians 2:9-11 ESV
Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Philippians 2:5 ESV
Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,

2 Corinthians 13:14 ESV
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.

1 Corinthians 15:3 ESV
For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures,

1 Corinthians 15:1-58 ESV
Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you””unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. ...

1 Corinthians 11:3 ESV
But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of Christ is God.

1 Corinthians 6:12 ESV
"All things are lawful for me,” but not all things are helpful. "All things are lawful for me,” but I will not be dominated by anything.

1 Corinthians 1:24 Esv
But to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

Romans 5:8 ESV
But God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Acts 5:4 ESV
While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not at your disposal? Why is it that you have contrived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to man but to God.”

John 21:17 ESV
He said to him the third time, "Simon, son of John, do you love me?” Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, "Do you love me?” and he said to him, "Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you.” Jesus said to him, "Feed my sheep.

John 20:31 ESV
But these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

John 19:30 ESV
When Jesus had received the sour wine, he said, "It is finished,” and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

John 14:1 ESV
"Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God; believe also in me.

John 11:26 ESV
And everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

John 8:40 ESV
But now you seek to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. This is not what Abraham did.

John 5:23 ESV
That all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.

John 5:18 ESV
This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

John 1:18 ESV
No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father's side, he has made him known.

Luke 2:40-52 ESV
And the child grew and became strong, filled with wisdom. And the favor of God was upon him. Now his parents went to Jerusalem every year at the Feast of the Passover. And when he was twelve years old, they went up according to custom. And when the feast was ended, as they were returning, the boy Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem. His parents did not know it, but supposing him to be in the group they went a day's journey, but then they began to search for him among their relatives and acquaintances, ...

Matthew 28:18 ESV
And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

Matthew 13:1-58 ESV
That same day Jesus went out of the house and sat beside the sea. And great crowds gathered about him, so that he got into a boat and sat down. And the whole crowd stood on the beach. And he told them many things in parables, saying: "A sower went out to sow. And as he sowed, some seeds fell along the path, and the birds came and devoured them. Other seeds fell on rocky ground, where they did not have much soil, and immediately they sprang up, since they had no depth of soil, ...

Matthew 10:29 ESV / 2 helpful votes
Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? And not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father.

Matthew 3:16-17 ESV
And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him; and behold, a voice from heaven said, "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.”

Isaiah 55:9 ESV
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Psalm 23:1-6 ESV / 2 helpful votes
A Psalm of David. The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want. He makes me lie down in green pastures. He leads me beside still waters. He restores my soul. He leads me in paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me. You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies; you anoint my head with oil; my cup overflows.

I've read every book Grubb has written. This is out of context and is not a representation of his theology. He taught the Godhood of Jesus, explicitly.

This, contextually, is Grubb relaying the comparison of the life of Christ to the life of Christ in the believer, and how we can say many of the same things about Jesus, as He said about the Father.

I only say this because the cherry picking has already begun, and one or two sentences, out of the context of the rest of the article/teaching is, for some reason, enough for some people to cry 'heresy'.

God can not be tempted - But Christ was tempted.

Heb 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
----

Heb.2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

8 THE SECRET UNVEILED

IF we need further unchallengeable evidence of the fact that God created us for inner union with Himself; we can look at another perfect man on earth. Only two men came perfect from God, and both were called Adam. Both were the first-born of a creation. One lost his perfection, the Other retained His. One we know in history as Adam, the Other was called the "last Adam", the Lord Jesus Christ. We may be sure, therefore, that from these two we can reliably learn the way by which man is intended to live his life, and for what he is created, for they are both the first, the prototype, of their generations.

We have already looked into the life of Adam the first. Let us look at Adam the second. We touch a mystery here, for He was both God and man on earth; but for our present purpose we will only look at Him as He certainly was-true man. The Son of Man was what He loved to call Himself; the Jesus of Nazareth whom Peter said God anointed with the Holy Ghost and with power, and who went about doing good, as other men since with the same anointing.

What then were the secret resources of this sinless life, perfect in holiness, mighty in word and work? John tells us in his gospel, for the same gospel which supremely emphasizes His Godhead, also gives us the profoundest insight into His manhood. How striking that the one thing He was always saying about Himself was that He was nothing! They challenged Him on the healing of the impotent man. His answer was, "The Son can do nothing of Himself; but what He seeth the Father do: for what things soever He doeth, these doeth the Son likewise." They challenged Him on the judgments He passed; "I can of Mine own self do nothing", was His reply, "as I hear, I judge." They questioned Him about His doctrines. "My doctrine is not mine, but His that sent me", was His answer. "If any man will do His will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of Myself" His very life was derived from Another. He said, "As the living Father bath sent me, and I live by the Father; so he that cateth Me, even he shall live by Me." In other words, He was living by "eating" the Father.

But He gave the supreme revelation in the most important conversation ever recorded on earth, His talk with His own at the Last Supper. We have already referred to this, but the vital importance was that for the first time in human history He was revealing to the human heart and mind the mystery of the union life. The disciples had never understood Him. How could they, when the Spirit of inner revelation was not yet given? They saw but a human being so often speaking to them about His Father, and that He derived all His wisdom and power from His Father. Where then was the Father? For He was now telling them that He was leaving them to go to His Father. They could only look at things in terms of space and time. They always saw things on the material level. He was on earth among them, His Father was in heaven. Now He was to leave them as orphans, and return to His Father. What should they do? What proof could they give that He had really gone back to Him? And so Philip made a direct request,

"Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us." Open the heavens and give us one sight of Him, and we can face the world with confidence, he meant. Then came the supreme revelation. "He that hath seen me hath seen the Father: and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?" If that was all He had said, we might surmise He meant that He and the Father were one Person, and to see One was to see the Other. But He did not. He went on to say, "Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself, but the Father that dwelleth in me, He doeth the works." The great secret was out at last. All these years among them He had been living as a man in hidden union with the Father. As perfect man, He fully knew His natural nothingness and constantly spoke of it; but He also knew that man was created to be indwelt by God, and He had always known that indwelling so completely that all His mighty words and deeds were not His, but the Father’s, with Himself the container, the co-worker. He had said He did nothing by Himself, but what He saw the Father do. They thought He must have some telescopic sight into heaven; now they knew that He looked within. He said He only spoke what He heard, they thought He meant a voice from heaven; now they knew it was an inner voice.

And so this perfect Man shows us perfectly the hidden meaning of creation-the creature nothing but a container, the Creator living His own life in the creature, both distinct beings, both thinking, feeling, willing, acting; yet the one the nothing, the Other the all, the perfect polarity of creature and Creator, redeemed and Redeemer: and in this relationship both living life in its fullness, with every faculty put to its fullest use, for a whole man is really God in a man. And when this law of life is clearly seen in both Adams, we all can see that the Christian revelation of Christ in me by grace through faith is not just some pleasing and convenient addition to life, which I can take or leave. It is life. There is no other life (1 John 5:11,12). "Abide in Me, and I in you-for without Me ye can do nothing."9 It is the fundamental necessity if I am ever to know life and live it according to its predestined pattern.

The humanity of Jesus of something not taught on often enough. Jesus as "pattern man", fully human, is almost entirely neglected, and always overshadowed by half of the truth, Jesus, fully God.

Both are true, Jesus was fully human AND fully God. Both a pattern of perfect humanity, and a pattern of a perfect revelation of the Father.

It's a both/and situation, not an either/or situation.

Would that more people had the faith to, and were fearless enough to teach it.

Thomas said to the human Jesus, "my Lord and my God", and Jesus denied the accusation that He Himself was good, saying only God was good... Paradox of paradoxes.

John 1:1 (KJV)
"In the beginning was *the Word, and *the Word was with God, and *the Word *was God.

Genesis 1:1 (KJV)
" In the beginning *God (who is the Word, Voice, He that speaketh) created the heaven and the earth.”.. and all therein is..

…….. Genesis 1:3 (KJV) And God said, Let there be light: *and there was light.
……>>>>and *God said,…>>>and *God said>>>.

””””””””
The Bible says,..
God is *the Word,..He is *invisable., …He is *Spirit,..
It shows, He speaks The Word, and is done.
””””””””

Luke 1:35 (KJV)
" And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
…….
””””””””-
So, I believe that God ,who is The Word, spoke ( commanded ) His Word into the womb of Mary,…therefore The *iWord is Jesus’ Father.
And *God (The Spirit-Word, w/us)

When we receive The Holy Spirit, His Spirit-Word is in us,.(ready to be revealed in us). that rivers of *Living Water.

God,… The Spirit of God, is not far away from us,..Paul says,…
””””””-
Acts 17:27 (KJV)
"That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though *he be not far from every one of us:

””””””””””””-
The Word is given to us *by measure.

But,as you say,.. not so w/Jesus,…

John 3:34 (KJV)
"For he whom God hath sent speaketh *the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure [unto him]."
……………
elizabeth

It totally grieves me what I read here.
This is not my Jesus and the Jesus of the Bible.
My Jesus came from heaven to earth my price to pay.
He is my Lord, my Saviour.
He is my advocate (1 John 2:1)
He who is at the right hand of God, is still interceding for me (Rom 8:34)
To say "he was nothing but a container" shocks me deeply.
Paul talks about the "unsearchable riches of Christ"(Ephesians 3:8)
Paul preached Christ and Him crucified.

"Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were uneducated, common men, they were astonished.
And they recognized that they had been with Jesus."(Acts 4:13)
Peter and John probably didn't know much about theology, but they knew the true Jesus.

I'm so grieved that it might take me a while to respond to some possible comments and questions.

"In Christ alone my Hope is found..."

Markus

John 5:19 "The Son can do nothing of himself, and of my own self I can do nothing." The human Jesus had no power of His own.

John 5:31-33. "If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true." Jesus didn't bear his own witness.

John 5:43. "I am come in my Father's name." Jesus did not come in his own name.

John 6:38. "I came not to do my own will." He did not do his own will.

John 6:57. "I live by the Father." He didn't have his own life.

John 7:16. "My doctrine is not mine." Jesus didn't have a doctrine or teaching of his own.

John 7:28. "I am not come of myself." The Father sent him.

John 8:16. "If I judge, my judgment is true; for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me." His judgment was not his own.

John 8:28-29. "I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me, I speak these things." He didn't learn from himself, and he didn't teach himself.

John 8:50. "I seek not mine own glory." His glory is not His.

John 8:54. "If I honor myself, my honor is nothing." He doesn't honor himself.

John 12:49. "I have not spoken of myself." Jesus didn't speak his own words.

John 14:10. "I speak not of myself, but the Father that dwelleth in me He doeth the works." His works were not His own works.

John 14:9, "He that hath seen Me hath seen the Father."

Philippians 2:6. "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"

Heb 2:16-18, "For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted."

Heb. 4:14-16, "Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need."

Before Christ was born on this earth He had emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. Philippians 2:5-11

He lived His life here on earth as a 100% human person. He had been tempted in every way, just as we are - yet He did not sin. Heb. 4:15. He lived a life of another. He lived by the Father's life inside Him and by the faith of the Father. He never lived a life of His own or as an independent self. He was just a vessel and a container, just like us. He was made like us in all aspects and every way. Heb. 2:17

He was sent likeness of sinful flesh. Rom 8:3

He was righteous only because He contained God's Righteousness. He was Holy only because He contained God's Holiness. He was perfect only because of God's perfection within Him. He did not even consider Himself Good because His Goodness came from the Father. Mark 10:18

John 10:37-38, "If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

John 14:10-11, "Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak unto you I speak not of Myself; but the Father that dwelleth in Me, He doeth the works. Believe Me that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me; or else believe Me for the very works' sake."

Christ did all His work in the power of the Father dwelling and working in Him. So complete and real was His dependence on the Father, that, in expounding it to the Jews, He used the strong expressions (v.19, 30)John 5:19, 30: The Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He seeth the Father doing'; I can do nothing of Myself.' As literally as what He said is true of us, Apart from Me ye can do nothing,' is it true of Him too. The Father abiding in Me doeth the work.'

John 14:12-14,"Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it."

Christ Himself did NOTHING from His own initiative or self effort. Everything He did was in response to the Father living and working within him. I wonder why we think we can do something from our own self when Christ did and could not.

Even Christ pleased not Himself - (Romans 15:3

John 5:30; "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me."

The person of Jesus Christ who is NOW indwelling us is our Sabbath rest. Now it is the indwelling God, the Father abiding in us, that God works in us. It is HIS life within us that accomplishes His work.

Jesus Christ was totally dependent on His Father and overcame all temptation just by simply resting. He was never concerned about obedience or disobedience. He put forth no effort to obey the law at all. The Live and divine nature of His Father accomplished all that within Christ. He had no sufficiency in Himself nor could He.

Amen Vern.

The Lord has been speaking to me about His humility, and it is most profoundly stated in His life on earth. These are the teachings that set our God apart from idols, that He came to earth and lived a human life to ransom us from the one who took us captive. The God who allowed Himself to be crucified for His people, and bore upon Himself our sin, and rose again to victory. The one who loved us, and gave Himself for us.

Thank you Vern for bringing these things back up, it plucked my pride at first again as natural man recoils a bit at these things thinking "what will people think if we state it as Jesus did". But the words of Jesus are the words of eternal life, the words that give us a glimpse behind the veil, as it were, to the life every believer is called to live. I had started down a path that began to neglect these foundational truths and realities that Jesus spent His entire ministry teaching, and through this thread the Holy Spirit brought me to repentance again and refocused me on what actually matters, Jesus.

Intellect and pride will reject the words of Christ, and the life He lived (or better said, the life of the Father manifested through Him), but I stand with Jesus Christ and His words.

I give a hearty amen to your posts, thank you dear brother.

This thread was very timely.

It totally grieves me what I read here.
This is not my Jesus and the Jesus of the Bible.
My Jesus came from heaven to earth my price to pay.
He is my Lord, my Saviour.
He is my advocate (1 John 2:1)
He who is at the right hand of God, is still interceding for me (Rom 8:34)
To say "he was nothing but a container" shocks me deeply.

That is what I was bothered by as well. Perhaps Grubb was taken out of context. But that statement is a very extreme statement. Jesus was not JUST a man. He is the eternal Son of God who literally spoke the world into existence. The same world that He paid the price to redeem.

Vern, your position is very orthodox, and if I did not see some things in scripture that lead me to believe that the view is not quite so definite, I would wholeheartedly agree with the hypostatic union doctrine. But I see some passages, in context, that lead me to believe that Jesus Christ humbled Himself to the point of laying aside some of His divine privilege, if you will, and relied on the Father to empower Him through the Holy Spirit.

But to say that He became an empty container on Earth, laying aside even His Godhead, is worrisome. The Word of Fatih movement has taken this and run with it to the point that some of them teach that Jesus had to be born again, just like any other man. They say this is what Him being the "firstborn among many brethren" is about. But it is a dangerous doctrine and takes scripture wildly out of context.

Vern wrote "Jesus Christ was totally dependent on His Father and overcame all temptation just by simply resting. (((((He was never concerned about obedience or disobedience.))))He put forth no effort to obey the law at all. The Live and divine nature of His Father accomplished all that within Christ. He had no sufficiency in Himself nor could He.”

8 Though he were a Son, ((((yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;))))
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that ((((obey him;))))

3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep ((((obey))) his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth (((((obey)))) not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.

14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and (((became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross))))

23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

8 in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on ((((those who do not obey)))) the gospel of our Lord Jesus.

5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
6 (((For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:))))

Obviously there are many more scriptures like this from beginning to end of the Bible 🤷🏽”â™‚️

It's strange that people will even try and correct and reinterpret the clear words of Jesus Himself. He spoke plainly, yet men still juggle His words.

Vern,
Stand strong in the faith dear brother. Grubb was instrumental in my sanctification, and the Holy Spirit witnesses to the truths of union as taught by Jesus more strongly than any other truth. Jesus entire life was for us, for our redemption and total salvation; but men cling to the historical event of the cross and forget His life, and His resurrection. A historical Jesus is that and that only, a historical Jesus. I thank God he lives within His people, and I thank God He taught that indwelling through His life as a fully human, pattern man.