Has the love of many grown cold

John 13:35
New King James Version
35 By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

One thing it says about evangelism it says by the love you have for one another you will know you are my disciples

In the bible it says

Matt 24
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

I would state that sin has made my love for jesus wax cold

It is so hard as we are living in a society where we can barely get by as food prices are high and we have Islam

In churches we have so few members

Where is the love of the brethren that the world may know that you are my disciples

Dear Brother,

The Lord has had me in the sermon on the mount for a long time now. The promises of our Fathers provision in those chapters are wonderful. We are called to simply obey Jesus, believe in His finished work and continuing work in and through us, and seek first His kingdom and HIS righteousness, and we can rest in the Father that He will add every necessity of life to us.

Take heart dear brother, if you are in Christ, you are more than conqueror, you are victorious via the cross of Jesus. Rest in Him, let him work, and praise Him for His grace. All is finished and every victory is ours in Jesus, we have overcome the world, we must simply stand in that victory and glory that we are seated in the heavens with Jesus.

He dwells within, and will do all He commands with you simply resting as the branch in the vine, the vessel of Jesus in the world.

Brother I did the same thing as you for years. I Labelled everyone a false teacher, false prophets and false Brothers and in doing so I judged many people wrong.

This causes the spirit to be grieved in our life because we stopped loving those who are brothers in Christ through stereo typing them and love grows colder and colder as yours has over the years as you've confessed many times in this forum.

Nothing will ever change in your life unless you change your mind through repentance which will restore the spirits peace and joy and character-changing power back into your life.

It's a Spiritual principle that's overlooked by many and it just leads one down the path into dry religion and that's why a lot of churches are closing because it's nothing but mainstream dry religion.

Other thing that won't help you is when you have an eschatology that says the Antichrist is going to take over and the churches are only going to be filled with false teachers in prophets and this is the will of the Lord towards the end of the age.

We would all be living in pagan dictatorial countries if it wasn't for post-millennialism and the reformers and those that came after who actually believed the power of the holy spirit to penetrate into governments, society business education when you believe that it's not meant to be like that,what hope do you have for your country the only reason why you've had any Christianity is because it penetrated into the minds and the educational systems political lawmaking system this is the seven mountain mandate that you so call false teaching it was that mindset and reformation in the church and society that brought the laws in that we all enjoy that are now places like the UK becoming a thing of the past.

If you change your eschatology and start to love your brothers and sisters take the label of false prophet off them the spirit of prayer and supplication will come back into your heart and you will move in a new fresh wave of the spirit and you will be able to pray with groanings that cannot be uttered for revival along with the thousands of others that are doing the same thing.

Bad eschatology can actually stop the spirit from operating in our life and in our churches because fear and pessimism is their enemy of accomplishing God's work upon the Earth.

IT doesn't Always do that but it's very hard to hold those two tensions together that the world is going to hell in the hand basket the gates are Hell is prevailing over the churches and to actually get out there and believe that your evangelism and your prayers are going to make any difference to what's already been ordained.

We have to face the facts and the conviction of the spirit that when our love has waxed cold in our life we are in a serious sin that has to be dealt with some way or the other we cannot keep walking down the path of our love growing colder it won't change by itself it has to be dealt with through repentance.

Brother I speak in love to you. Stop with pointing out all the sin in the church and in the world and deal with the sin that's in your life and you will be set free and move in a new spirit of renewal and revival. 😐🙏✝️💜

Gary,

So in other words, everyone has to agree with you or grieve the Holy Spirit... Accept everything without discernment or grieve the Holy Spirit... Hold to whatever eschatology you deem correct or... Grieve the Holy Spirit...

The irony here is, the Holy Spirit is who led me into not accepting everything without discernment, and in fact has given me His discerning insights into certain situations... causing others to ridicule, mock and call me a "false convert" because I didn't agree with them in saying... Again ironically, that we should "show grace" to everyone, or in their backwards definition, just accept their error (which is not grace at all).

You may wonder why I make posts like this.

I take this forum, and this method of communication just as seriously as I do in person communication (Paul took his writing extremely seriously, he was much more loquacious with the pen and a horrible orator).

That said, the brethren here are seeking real spiritual help, and they don't need your ulterior motives, emotionally driven pleas to just agree with everything you say, and they certainly don't need to be indoctrinated.

I have felt to say this before, but your post in this thread is so wolfish that I can't in good conscience let it pass. We are held accountable for our silences when we should speak, just as much as our words.

Wolves seek to point men to themselves, their viewpoints, turn men inwardly to themselves and their emotions. You have much to say about spiritual authority and denominations, how we should employ some carnal view of grace and let everyone believe and do what is right in their own eyes, with no concern for truth or the glory of God. It's all egocentricity, what man says what and has authority over whom, and on and on.

As long as it's in charisma magazine, has enough followers, does a miracle or two and teaches some new age doctrine of "lording over one another", it's okay with you.

When man is ignored for the glory of God, and truth is rightly divided, you're Johnny on the spot with everything I just mentioned and some emotional, personal appeal or accusation, coupled with how you've been there and done that for 20+ years.

Gary, your post in this thread is incredibly wolfish, sectarian and honestly, I can't believe what I read...

We are called out from the world system, because it is against our Father. This world is condemned, why would anyone invest anything in a bank that is closing... this world is closing. Jesus is coming back with judgment for this world system, He never once called us to change the world, He calls us into a new kingdom within this fallen world; until He returns and rules from Zion and His kingdom finally becomes a physical kingdom.

And lastly, you're ecclesiology needs some serious rethinking. Everything is "churches" to you, and I think this is the foundation upon which you have built your entire structure of bad theology. There is one body, one faith, one baptism... Bricks and mortar do not the body of Christ make.

Now my conscience is clear.

I fully expect many posts telling me every horrible thing I am, and every verse to substantiate it.

I stand before my Father and for His glory, even if it means my reputation dies.

I say again to our dear brother,

The Lord has had me in the sermon on the mount for a long time now. The promises of our Fathers provision in those chapters are wonderful. We are called to simply obey Jesus, believe in His finished work and continuing work in and through us, and seek first His kingdom and HIS righteousness, and we can rest in the Father that He will add every necessity of life to us.

Take heart dear brother, if you are in Christ, you are more than conqueror, you are victorious via the cross of Jesus. Rest in Him, let him work, and praise Him for His grace. All is finished and every victory is ours in Jesus, we have overcome the world, we must simply stand in that victory and glory that we are seated in the heavens with Jesus.

He dwells within, and will do all He commands with you simply resting as the branch in the vine, the vessel of Jesus in the world.

I'm trying to help a brother out who's been crying out for years on this forum. And I point to my own life as a testimony as we all do in some way I didn't post in here to get approval from you.🙏🙋💗👈

The things I've learnt about having a lack of love and being filled with judgment suspicion critical thinking and those types of mindsets that are connected with religion without relationship or religion with a relationship that's gone dry is many of us go through this and many don't come out but stay in this type of state.

Like I was saying when the holy spirit convicts us of not loving and growing cold we have to stop pointing the finger at everyone else who has sin in their life or who we think are sinners or who have false doctrine and wrong practices, and we have to deal with the sin that the holy spirit is showing us.

If we are losing our joy and peace and love for the world of sinners and love for our enemies and love for our brothers we are in sin and we don't come out of that sin by recognizing the sin in other people, we come out of that sin through conviction godly sorrow and then fresh conversion experience from Dark dryness to fresh joy in the spirit and peace that passes all understanding.

There's only one way to get that and that is through repentance, you can talk about looking inward and getting all emotional, but none of that changes the prescription of heaven that's written in the word of God called godly sorrow that leads to repentance and that is without regret.

Patting someone on the back is not going to bring them back into loving their enemies or loving their brothers loving God with all their heart mind and soul and that's all you've done brother.

Allowing the holy spirit to go inward and humbling ourselves through that uncomfortable experience and turning from that sin is how we get freedom.

I'm not asking anyone to listen to me here but my heart goes out Dom because it was my own life that was scared and filled with judgment and condemnation for my brothers.

When we've been healed from certain sins in our own life we're actually able to help others who are in a similar position my heart goes out to drunks and drug addicts and people who have all sorts of addictions and sin in their life because that was me I was set free from that and one of the last major things that I had to deal with was judging and not loving. It's only the grace of God through the cross that we get healing and we stay healed and forgiven, it's not of ourselves it's a gift from God but we have to access that through repentance and recognizing our sin and God's ability to keep delving deeper into US to show us where we need more healing and more forgiveness.

Brother, maybe you need more healing yourself calling me a wolf is probably showing that you have some deep church hurt in your heart.🙏✝️👈

Rom 14 10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written:

"As I live, says the Lord,
Every knee shall bow to Me,
And every tongue shall confess to God.”

12. So then each of us shall give account of himself to God. 13. Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother’s way.

May Dom (and all of us) look to Christ for victory, especially when man would have him look to changing his doctrine for it.

Jesus Himself is all sufficient for victory in this life, He is made unto us all that we need.

No one can say I do not value rightly divided truth, but first things first... and that first thing is that Jesus is made unto us wisdom, righteousness, redemption, sanctification, victory, and apart from His indwelling we can do absolutely nothing.

Without that settled firmly in our spirits, it's not even possible to establish sound doctrine.

But you would have him change his eschatology and stop calling your favorite preachers false prophets (what if they are though?) For victory, peace and joy. What a fleshly charade that is.

I haven't heard the "religion without relationship" cliche for a long time. It's hard to figure where the object of the relationship you mean is from your posts, each other? Doctrine? Churches (plural)? Eschatology?

To build a foundation for anything, Jesus must be chief cornerstone and obedience to His teaching the foundation.

You make a good show talking so much about love for sinners, souls, the brethren... But I noticed you don't talk at all about where that love originates and whose love it is by which we even seem to love. And what of love for God?

All man centered jargon and cliches from 20 years of church hopping no doubt. The glory of God is the churches chief concern, and it is His love by which we love, and His love is shed abroad by the Holy Spirit, not obtained by changing doctrine and believing every spirit (as if they all come from God). Again, you point man to other man and themselves, never to Jesus.

If Gods people have a problem of sin in their lives, that is between them and the Holy Spirit, and it is plain you think you can act as the providence of God for our brother here, and anyone who touches those you have anointed or anything you believe.

Point men to Jesus, don't turn them inward to self or to other men.

And Gary,
Like usual, you've ripped those Romans verses from their context to proof text your emotional appeal to superficial unity.

I understand my stride in these posts, but I don't see another way.

"No eye has seen,
no ear has heard,
no heart has imagined,
what God has prepared for those who love Him" (2v9)

May we focus on the Gospel and come to a deeper understanding of what God has prepared for those who love Him

Markus

deleted most of my post

"If the heart grows cold, everything will be coldly done. When love declines, what cold preaching we have! All moonlight light without heat; polished like marble, and as chill. What cold singing we get, ”” pretty music, made by pipes and wind, but oh, how little soul-song! ”” how little singing in the Holy Ghost, making melody in the heart unto God ! And what poor praying! Do you call it praying? What little giving! When the heart is cold, the hands can find nothing in the purse; and Christ’s Church, and Christ’s poor, and the heathen may perish, for we must needs hoard up for ourselves, and live to grow rich. Is there anything that goes on as it ought to go when love waxes cold?” (Spurgeon)

It is easy to become discouraged when we see the world around us actually pursuing sin shamelessly. A subjective examination would strongly suggest the devil is winning.

But he is defeated foe, although he still stirs up trouble where he is allowed. The Church is supposed to be involved in a clean-up operation but seems to have abandoned this role.

Nonetheless, Jesus is the cosmic Victor.
””””””””-

And in despair I bowed my head;
"There is no peace on earth," I said;
"For hate is strong,
And mocks the song
Of peace on earth, good-will to men!"

Then pealed the bells more loud and deep:
"God is not dead, nor doth He sleep;
The Wrong shall fail,
The Right prevail,
With peace on earth, good-will to men."

Not sure of it's pertinence but I felt to share this.

I find it helpful to keep in mind that those who find it difficult to obey, must believe; and those who find it difficult to believe, must obey.

It's a cold world we are living in.
The system is made for people to stop loving each other.
During pandemic, they came up with social distancing and putting your mask on for "your safety and others".
Since the economy is going down, people are hoarding money and not as giving as before. There are more examples of this and to write them down it will take pages.

Alot of the nonbelievers know that the system is corrupt but they don't know about Jesus Christ. They don't know how He came from the Father and how He died for our sins and how He rose from the dead. And He will soon appear with an iron scepter and judge the world. Those that follow the Messiah will enter Life eternity because they obeyed God's command to love one another. They obeyed God because they believe Jesus Christ the One that was sent from the Father. They understand how much God loves them and how He has forgiven our sins and wiped them out. Knowing how much God loves you will lead you to obedience. Therefore, let us pray for one another that God may strengthen our faith and that our love will grow for one another abundantly. Pray that God will give the spirit of wisdom and understanding to know God's will. God's will is to be joyful always, pray continually and give thanks in all circumstances.

It is by the love for one another they the world sees jesus as Christians
It is ironic as it say that sin makes love grow cold

Dom,

If you think you have sin in your life, seek the Lord dear brother. The Holy Spirit is never vague regarding sin, He will point it out specifically and never leave you wondering.

Satan will leave you floundering around and trying to figure out the sin you may have committed (he generally accuses and relies on our sensitivity to and hatred of sin, hoping we will condemn ourselves for a good long time), the Holy Spirit never will, He will point it out specifically and quickly, so we can repent and be cleansed.

If you feel a general sense of condemnation, or feel generally accused, look unto Jesus and His finished work on the cross, His resurrection to advocate for you to the Father, and His indwelling so you can rest in His working through you.

But if you are just making an observation about the world, let not your heart be troubled brother, Jesus has overcome the world.

The reference in the scripture was in to the last days as I was quoting to the larger reference of the church

Matt 24
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

It is actually prophecied in Matt 24

As it states in the larger context that in Matt 24 that false prophets shall arise and shall decieve many

We all struggle with sin

As I was also trying to emphasize the fact that the love amongst the brethren in the book of brethren

John 17
33Little children, I shall be with you a little while longer. You will seek Me; and as I said to the Jews, ‘Where I am going, you cannot come,’ so now I say to you. 34A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another

In the bible it commands us to love one another

Just looking at the state of the church , jesus commands us to love one another and he says by this you shall know you are my disciple

This is why I am comparing verses in scriptures

Revelation 2
1 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;

2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.

4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

To the church in Ephesus they had lost there first love

1 john 2
8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.

9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.

10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him. note

11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

What I am writing are we living in an age where the love has grown cold and I can't point the finger without pointing it to myself as the love has grown cold is something prophetic for the last days
With the cost of living crisis and other things it has an affect and COVID it changed church
It is also the fact that there has been so many things dividing the true brethren as there are many false believers

If we want evangelism let's start with the church members in our own church
As many people do not even know the people in there own church and there are so many preachers in your church or bible teachers in your church
How much things are sitting right underneath are noses

Dom,

I understand now. I do believe we are in those times brother, just as you do. Where I live it is entirely given over to false religion. A literal false prophet runs the organization and the government here.

Be thankful for the fellowship you do have Dom, and stay close to them as you together stay close to Jesus. Even in the US there are places where there aren't more than a handful of Christians for 100 miles.

These are the last days, and thankfully we know what to expect and how to overcome, Jesus told us beforehand.

Markus,

I have been meditating on your accusation for a couple of days now, since it is a serious one and I do believe you are a true believer, so naturally I take that sort of thing very seriously.

I feel like the Father spoke something to me this morning that I should share with you regarding whether I have a true, saving faith or not.

If I don't, as you say, have a "biblical faith", than I will follow my Lord in this life anyway. And if it turns out my faith in His finished work on the cross, where He loved me and gave Himself for me, my resting in His working through me and ceasing from my own works, is not enough and I end up in hell... well I read it's not to far from where He will dwell in Zion, so if I only catch a single physical glimpse of Him, even from Hell, even if it is as he throws me into that pit, that will suffice and satisfy my every desire.

I already know I will be berated for the theology behind that sentiment, but the Holy Spirit impressed that very strong on me this morning, and I asked if I had liberty to share it, and I think that liberty was given.

Maybe it will bless someone.

Rev. 3:15 "I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. 16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.

These are the words of Jesus to the church at Laodecia. They are quite strong and rebuking. So what does that mean that Jesus would have them be either cold or hot? It means quite simply that He would prefer someone to be living firmly in either the kingdom of God (hot) or living in the kingdom of darkness (cold) but certainly to not have one foot in each! You mix hot water with cold water and you get lukewarm water which makes Jesus want to puke!

And there are many lukewarm Christians today. I try to examine my own heart to see if I'm lukewarm. Maybe I am, I hope not. But unfortunately we ask ourselves if we truly love the Lord and since we strongly agree with that statement conceptually, we put a checkmark in that box and think we are good. But here is the thought I want to leave with you today: Love that is not tested is flabby and weak. I think of Peter who was so adamant that if all the other disciples left and fell away from the Lord, surely he wouldn't. We all know what happened just before the cock crowed the third time.

And if you think that in order to remain faithful to Christ we need to focus on our own faithfulness (like Peter did) and try to be strong in ourselves to 'hang on', it will fail. No, but faith is like the organ of the eye and always has an object in view. And for the Christian, Christ Himself is the object of our faith. Consider Jesus and how lovely and merciful and good and generous and kind He is and how He loves you and shows it to you every day and your faith will be buoyed and rise to meet life's challenges that would have us turn our backs on Him.

And they overcame him (the devil) by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Rev. 12:11

-Daniel

Brother Markus,

Your post about you thinking Brother ES isn't born again or of the faith is confounding. On what basis of his testimony or doctrine that he's shared do you draw that ?

Brother Markus,

Your post about you thinking Brother ES isn't born again or of the faith is confounding. On what basis of his testimony or doctrine that he's shared do you draw that ?

this is a serious accusation and it is off topic

I never made any "accusations"
But I deleted most of that post anyway.
Might write more later, don't know yet

Edit:Just adding:

ES,I wrote: "I don't believe ..."
Which is not the same as making an "accusation"

I told you the same at the beginning, when you came new to this forum, that I don't believe you have a Biblical faith.
I gave you then several Scripture references to support it.
But you interpreted those references differently.

I didn't use the word "salvation" .
"Salvation" and "faith" are not necessarely the same.
"The Lord knows those who are his..."

You seem to comment on every discussion.
Based on all this I made my previous comment.
That's why I thought there is no point if we just go round in circles.

One more thought:
You need to test everything what you believe with the Word of God, not by what we write here.

May the Lord give us understanding

I think that's all I have to say

Sorry to go off-topic

Markus