Seeing and perceiving. Hearing and being heard.

The easy grace of many avoids the clear truth of OT and NT Scripture that Spiritual sight of spiritual things, especially seeing our our own selves rightly and hearing from God clearly, or at all, and God hearing us when we speak to Him is dependent on our walking in the Light or our walking in the darkness as Christians.

Having eyes to "see" and having ears to "hear" depends on whether we have allowed sin to go on in ourselves and/or have allowed idols to be set up in our hearts. If and once this happens we actually don't know we can't hear or see spiritually nor do we know that God isn't speaking or revealing Himself and His will and ways to us. In the opposite, good sight and hearing depends on us walking in righteousness.

Isa 59:2 -
But your wrongdoings have caused a separation between you and your God,
And your sins have hidden His face from you so that He does not hear.

Heb 5:7 -
In the days of His humanity, He offered up both prayers and pleas with loud crying and tears to the One able to save Him from death, and He was heard because of His devout behavior.

1Pe 3:12 -
"FOR THE EYES OF THE LORD ARE TOWARD THE RIGHTEOUS,
AND HIS EARS ATTEND TO THEIR PRAYER,
BUT THE FACE OF THE LORD IS AGAINST EVILDOERS.”

Rev 3:17 - ‘Because you say, "I am rich, and have become wealthy, and have no need of anything,” and you do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked,

Eze 14:3 - "Son of man, these men have set up their idols in their hearts and have put in front of their faces the stumbling block of their wrongdoing. Should I let Myself be consulted by them at all?

Jhn 15:7

"If you remain in Me, and My words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you."

Walking in righteousness leads to spiritual sight and hearing from God. Apart from that, there is a big risk of spiritual blindness and deafness which is wholly undetected and undiscerned by those suffering from it. In fact, ironically, they think all is well. One could have a reputation for being alive but in fact he is dead or close to it and not even know it. A physically blind and deaf person is completely aware of their condition. Spiritually, though, not at all.

And the crazy thing is, one could be right in many regards to the faith and yet blind and deaf overall because of habitual unrighteousness in one particular area, like lacking brotherly love, being spiritually gifted and proud of it, tolerant of sexual immorality in the body, toleration of or actual covetousness or being rich in goods but not toward God, not persevering in serving the saints, idolatry of self, natural family, life on earth and the length of your own life. Any one of these, according to Scripture, over time, could make you blind and deaf and God could stop listening to even your most heartfelt prayers. Just read the passages. Not opinion.

1 Peter 3:7 -
You husbands in the same way, live with your wives in an understanding way, as with someone weaker, since she is a woman; and show her honor as a fellow heir of the grace of life, so that your prayers will not be hindered.

Those who have not soiled their garments are worthy to walk with Jesus in this life and the one to come.

This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth;
but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. (1John 1:5-9)

Cleansing is available through contrition and confession, yet, we must actually walk in the light to have fellowship with Jesus (abide) and not just be cleansed. Cleansing from past sins is not enough.

2Pe 1:8-11.

For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they do not make you useless nor unproductive in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ

For the one who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins. Therefore, brothers and sisters, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choice of you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble; for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.

This verse should be especially noted as a hindrance to prayer and fellowship:

James 4:17 - So for one who knows the [fn]right thing to do and does not do it, for him it is sin.

A life of self pursuit even if not overtly, or even definitionally by our own standards "lustful”, will hinder prayer. Not being positively righteous to the end in our life will at some point result in our "not being heard” in addition to lack of fellowship, lack of joy and disqualification. (John 15 , 1 John 1, Philippians 3, 2 Peter 1, Matthew 7.

Amen brother.

One thing I would caution against in this line of reasoning however, is the imbalance that can quickly tip the scales towards looking to our own works, obedience, holiness, and righteousness, and forgetting the source from which all of these things come.

Jesus said that if we love Him we will obey His commands, and in the same breath said that apart from Him we can do nothing. The branch in the vine is simply the vehicle of the life of the vine as it upholds the branch. The root of the vine, the vine itself, feeds the life into the branch, and the fruit that is visible on the branch is nothing more than the vines manifestation.

Jesus said in John 17 He gave His followers His own glory, the glory of visibly bearing the fruit that is actually His. Apart from Him we can do nothing, just like a branch apart from the vine is good for nothing except to be thrown away and burned. Our sanctification is the result of Jesus sanctifying Himself, and in our abiding in Him, we too are sanctified.

This all seems much more spiritualized than it actually is.

Their is no chronological difference between abiding and bearing fruit; believing and obeying; faith and works.

To believe, one must obey. The lack of obedience will never put a disciple of Jesus into a position where faith is even necessary, just like the lack of faith will never put a disciple of Jesus into a position where obedience is ever necessary. To obey, one must believe.

There is no chronology in this, it is 'both and' not 'either or'.

Anyway, it is easy to have hindrances in prayer and immediately look to self to find the answers. But self is a deceiver. The Psalmist asks of God for His searching. When God searches us, we are truly found out.

Just thought to add these thoughts, not take away from what you said brother Robert, as I agree with everything you said. The spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets after all, and we all sharpen each other, as iron sharpens iron.

ES. I know the danger you speak of. However, all those Scriptures were spoken to the faithful saints without caveat or caution or warning.

True.

They were spoken to faithful saints; that said, it can be assumed that they held the truths that I conveyed earlier, and knew appropriate application of what you wrote, the application of abiding in Jesus, and His abiding in us.

It cannot be taken for granted now however, that these things are held in conjunction with one another.

I think our posts are also 'both and', not 'either or'.

If you were not in Cambodia dear brother, I would suggest we meet for prayer and fellowship together with the Lord. You're ability to articulate the faith is inspired.

Thanks ES. Would welcome the chance.

Amen, I can't help but think of Jesus when he talked about removing the plank out of our own eye so that we may see clearly.

This plank that he's spoke about was connected to judging our brothers and so it clearly had a devastating effect on our ability to see.

So this plank that he speaks about was such a dangerous plank that it was connected to the very deception of Satan who was the accuser of the brethren, who himself judged and accused and obviously did not love born again Christians in any shape or form.

It is interesting the verses that talk about :if we walk in the light the basic evidence of that is that we will have fellowship with one another and then the blood of Jesus cleanses corporately and individually of sin because we're practicing love for the brothers and in the letter of John this is definitely what the gnostics were not doing they were an elite group of false Christians one would also make the argument to say that the (Judaizers) the men that came from James we're not loving the gentiles as they were, nor did they receive them as brothers the way our heavenly father had accepted and received them Peter's vision when he fell asleep on the top of the house made that quite clear.

Matthew 7 â–º
New King James Version\t
Do Not Judge
1"Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. 3And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? 4O how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye? 5 Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

If you don't love your brother whom you have seen how can you say that you love God whom you have not seen.

The deception is real and powerful and one of Satan's favorite tools because he uses the commandments and a type of false humility to grip hold of the Christian to cause them to believe that because they are not fornicating or they're not lying and stealing they're in some sort of deep type of repentance but in reality their judgment upon their brother has caused them to be blind and fall into this snare of the Devil the accuser of the brethren to do his will.

Apart from the root sin of Pride judging and accusing is the fundamental sin of Satan and what he does best and so when Christians fall into the same snare and practice the same sin as Satan they actually outdo the demons.

Like the demons of lust and the unclean demons that tempt through different sins and bring people into bondage to sexual addictions and other addictions of The flesh through men giving themselves over to the appetites of their body.

I would go as far as saying it is probably the greatest sin of all the sins because when one falls into false judgment and condemns their brother and falls into blindness it is impossible then to keep the two spiritual laws of loving God with all your mind hearts soul and spirit and loving your neighbor as yourself, by default the sin of judgment causes you to break the two greatest commandments while holding onto a religious spirit and a false piety that manifests itself in many forms of religion not just a Christian religion but also Islam, etc.

Love Joy peace patience goodness kindness gentleness faithfulness and self-control.

The main attribute of the spirit in US is goodness kindness gentleness patience peace and love, this is the main part of the fruit of the spirit itself.

The apostle Paul clearly had matured fruit of the spirit and he was able to love the immature babes in Christ at the church of Corinth who were carnal as evidence of them being babes in Christ.

He didn't try to tear them down he didn't try to accuse them but had an intense love for them and more or less labored in birth pains and in prayer interceding in the spirit pouring out his heart to these carnal Christians.

If we're not doing the same thing and feel that our heart is raspy and harsh towards young carnal Christians in a similar condition to the church at Corinth then we have probably come under the power of Satan and the accuser of the brethren the hook is probably penetrating into our own heart because if we do have bitterness and contempt towards carnal Christians we're copying Satan because Satan's objective and one of his main goals is to tear down the newly born Christian and the carnal Christian and to rip them out of fellowship ripped them out of communion and to take them captive for his own Glory.

I only bring this up again because this is one of the major blind spots in a Christian's journey and development and it definitely was one of my blind spots and had me in the same
snare.

If we really do want revival to come into our own life and revival to be effective in the town that we live in or the country that we live in and we want to be part of the intercessors that actually play a part in praying through God's will and bringing it into the Earth we have to deal with this sin, else we will find ourselves on the outer edges of the move of the spirit when it does sweep through the world and our hearts will become more offended we will see fewer miracles less healing and eventually we'll be walking like a cessationist and a religious person with a lot of head knowledge but no spiritual reality and our fruit of the spirit will have dried up and become rotten and fallen off the tree, the branch will have been ripped from the vine to make room for other branches to grow and bear fruit.

Heavenly father may you open my eyes more to the reality of your love and open up our eyes to see if we have this sin within us and set us free into the love joy and peace and long-suffering goodness kindness and gentleness and self control and patients that, we know is the very attribute of who you are and cause us to walk in love and holiness . Forgive us father for your son's sake that he may get the reward of his suffering in our life and may the blood of your son accomplish above and beyond what we may believe it could accomplish in our own life for his sake and for the sake of the Lost World. Amen

Heh Gary,

Thanks for affirming the Scripture truths that were posted. I do want to suggest that your general statement about love towards the brethern being a critical key to walking with God is very right as all are aware. However, your statements about Paul and the church in Corinth need some clarity. Take a look at 2 Corinthians 13 to see Paul's heart towards the carnal Christians you speak of. You will see warning, accusation and threatened harshness. This is not to advocate that anyone should assume that mantle. Rather, just trying to clarify and suggest better use of the Scripture you use to support what you are saying.

As I'm sure you are aware, people can be carnal because they are new in the faith and some can be carnal because of prolonged rebellious decisions to be so even though they have been in the church a long time. God is long suffering with the former and less so with the latter primarily because they are without excuse and because their example in the church is harmful to the truly new and infant in Christ. Many of the Corinthians were in the latter category of being spiritually gifted but also selfish and in prideful rebellion for years and Paul loved them as a spiritual father and mother but, was also ready to come to them in their harmful rebellion either in the gentleness of love as they repented of their hardness of heart or with a rod and with the power of punishment if they did not ( 1 Corinthians 4:21). I presume Paul had God's heart in the matter when He spoke these truths in love.

Love is never blind to what could be a seriously harmful leaven in the body. Love nourishes and love protects. Adam should have not only nourished Eve spiritually to help her to maturity but also protected her from false voices. If Adam wanted to keep in fellowship with God, then he would have to do both and failed at it and lost that fellowship as a result. Love makes us our brother's and our brothers' keepers so long as we are led of the Spirit in the keeping.

As you said, perhaps your past is directing you in what you say. Your point and concern is very valid but you can go too far the other way and lose fellowship even with God just as easily by protecting the one at the expense of the rest of the family. This is actually what happened in Corinth when looking at the whole of the Scripture and not verse plucking. The body in Corinth let the sinful one(s) run a bad race as a bad spiritual example to the body. A bad example of sin and a worse example of toleration of it and the whole church (not just the leaders) were chastened by Paul for saying and doing nothing to protect the spiritually weak or vulnerable from the bad and harmful examples influencing them. Paul told the Corinthian body of believers to call out and punish the unrepentant or face punishment themselves if he had to do it instead because they (not only the leaders) weren't being good examples of protecting the flock. The sin of doing nothing.

Your use of Paul and the Corinthian church is great for establishing what brotherly love would do and must do in order to protect the brothers even though you seem to say it teaches the opposite. This does not sanction the abuses of others who seek to call out or chasten others in the flesh and not in the Spirit. There's plenty of fleshly activity and its abuse on either side done in the name of brotherly love.

One last clarification or admonishment Gary, the word "accusation" does not necessarily get paired with Satan, although he is the accuser of the brethern. It is a neutral word that means "to charge someone with some wrongdoing." Here's the positive and Scripturally mandated use of the word:

1Ti 5:19
Do not accept an "accusation" against an elder except on the basis of two or three witnesses.

We are to accept an accusation when supported in the case of charges against elders within a local body.

Amen Robert. I Agree with much of your post there brother.

You mention the mantle that the apostle Paul had and for sure he carried the mantle to operate within his sphere of authority through the anointing and no doubts through a perfected character of love.

I believe out of all the apostles John and Paul had Christ formed within them so that they could carry out apostolic discipline and excommunications with a clear conscience from a pure heart with the love of Christ and he showed that love by asking the leaders of the church to bring back the one they had handed over to Satan so to speak so that he wasn't swallowed Up in Too much sorrow, we see his love is evident even for the deliberate sinner, and he could also command those who were in authority in the church to carry out similar disciplinary action, the body of Christ never had the same authority as the elders and the prophets and teachers.

I think our past should definitely direct us in what we say and how we minister love using our spiritual gifts whatever that may be, Jesus said he who is forgiven much loves much.

I've mentioned here before that those who have been forgiven of a lifestyle of drunkenness and drugs often have compassion and the desire for other people to be set free from those same afflictions and sinful strongholds, so in my case because I was delivered from a religious spirit over 10 years ago I do have the desire yes to help people see that same sin and I desire them to be free and to come into that place that many others have come to, and it was definitely a blindness and a deception that comes over a person when they move in false judgment, your post just reiterates that truth.

I've never promoted the idea that people can practice sin and live a sinful life and get away with that.

There's a big difference between seeing the sin in people's lives and judging them for it compared to seeing the sin in people's lives and being broken over it and having that sin so stir your heart into a place where you get caught up in intercession and you stand in the gap for the sinners with tears and with love.

It's easy to recognise the sin in the church and in people's lives and talk about it and gossip about it , an can unbeliever can do that.

Much of that type of behaviour has nothing to do with the love that we are commanded to have for those people whether we consider them brothers or enemies or Neighbours.

I think the description is abundantly clear that shepherd pastors and teachers Shepherd their flock and it is their mandate and job from the holy spirit to function through rebukes reproves and excommunications because they're meant to be elders in a position where they can deal with that without becoming bitter or getting angry at sinners but in a spirit of gentleness as Paul admonishes Timothy to.

Brother it wasn't the body in Corinth that let the sinful one run a bad race it was the elders who had the authority and weren't functioning properly and we're tolerating it, believers were definitely going along with what the eldership allowed and tolerated and accepted, but there was no authority given to believers to override the eldership in the church anywhere in any of Paul's letters or the other apostles letters it was always told for the believers to obey those who have authority over you because they watch over your soul as one who is going to give an account for doing that.

I actually think the big mistake that many Christians make is they don't rightly divide the word of God in this aspect when it comes to the letters that they are written to the historical and biblical context. {Proper exegesis}

The letters were held by the elders and read publicly by command of the apostle Paul as evident in one of his letters he mentions this.

So brother I agree with what you say but I see is clear distinction in the context of authority.

Regarding Titus that's talking about Titus accepting an accusation either from an elder in the church regarding the conduct of another elder or maybe someone that's come directly to him about a crime that has been committed be it sexual or drunkenness ECT This is normal church discipline but this has nothing to do with the body of Christ or believers accepting an accusation, believers would have no authority to do anything in that type of case.

Titus was a bishop and appointed elders and probably didn't deal with pastoral issues, a traveling apostolic missionary probably similar to an apostle in function and he oversaw the function of elders.

Brother I fully understand the context of accusation is used in normal church life for civil life and there's a context in which it must be used for instance if a crime is committed,one should to take that case to the police or the elders of the church an accusation has to be made, I'm not talking about that type of accusation I'm talking about the body of believers accusing one another and judging one another and gossiping and fault finding things like that.

Gary,

1 and 2 Corinthians will argue against your point easily with clarity and far better than any attempt on my part.

Gary,

I've been curious about something for awhile now and I think this thread gives me clear opportunity to ask.

How is it, that no matter the topic, it always comes back to authority and judging others in your posts?

Roberts original post was a wonderful exhortation. How is it that all you seemed to gather from it was who has authority to make which judgments, and telling everyone that holding up a standard is hypocritical?

Well, Brother I'm glad you like the letters to Corinth they are very close to my favorite letters in the New Testament. blessings to you

Evan I did amen Roberts original post.

The topic was about spiritual sight and the teaching that Jesus taught came to mind as I was reading it so I posted what came to my mind.

Jesus was talking about seeing clearly in that context is one of the serious sins that will cause blindness and it's overlooked.

Brother it's just a discussion, in a discussion forum.

Gary.

I probably did a poor job of titling the post. The post content was all about God hearing our prayers and tangentially about seeing God face to face. It really had zero to do with seeing others’s sins. Errant title on my part. God not listening to our prayers when we have habitual sins in our lives is the concern expressed as I found the Spirit leading me. All the Scriptures quoted and paraphrased were on that point.

The OP said:

The easy grace of many avoids the clear truth of OT and NT Scripture that Spiritual sight of spiritual things, especially seeing our our own selves rightly and hearing from God clearly, or at all, AND GOD HEARING US WHEN WE SPEAK TO HIM IS DEPENDENT ON OUR WALKING IN THE LIGHT OR OUR WALKING IN THE DARKNESS AS CHRISTIANS.

(Note: My emphasis in caps).

I do not think that Gary’s post digressed from the OP.

Surely it would be very hard to see the Light and walk in the Light when there is a plank in the eye.

Brother it's just a discussion, in a discussion forum.

Yes! This is a DISCUSSION forum, NOT a teaching pulpit.

I appreciate that Jade, I didn't feel like I disagreed with the original post from Robert either.

Having eyes to "see" and having ears to "hear" depends on whether we have allowed sin to go on in ourselves and/or have allowed idols to be set ...Professor of psychology Asifa Majid said: "Scientists have spent hundreds of years trying to understand how human sensory organs work, concluding that sight is the most important sense, followed by hearing, touch, taste, and smell.” this is not only the result of necessary training, in which blind people learn, among other things, to compensate for their lack of vision with their sense of hearing. It is also due to the neurological development of the brain.
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