Appropriating the death of Christ. The deep work of the cross

Though not so popular, one of the means of grace used by God to kill the old man is suffering.

He sanctifies through Two flames, both require a decision and yielding on our part.

The carrying of the cross is a willingness to walk towards the experience of crucifixion. And it is there upon the altar of the cross that the second fire will come down from heaven in a baptism of fire, and burn out the fleshly nature only then will we truly experience the resurrected life, leading to the ascended life.

This is the destiny of the end-time Bride of Christ ( To the perfect man to the measure of the stature of the Fullness of Christ) Eph 4:13

The challenging thing about the death of the old man or the death of the deeds of the body as Paul said
is it must be done through the spirit.

Paul said if you by the Spirit do put to death the deeds of the body you will live.

On our journey, we Tend to have some sin put to death through the spirit's power to sanctify us, but then on the other hand the deep-rooted inner sins and character flaws tend to be harder to put to death.

The blood of Christ through the spirit seems to deal with cigarettes and alcohol and fornication and adultery and stealing and other things like that, these outer more obvious sins tend to get put off in some cases, or just restrained under the power of the flesh, but then we have sins like judgment, shyness, unbelief in certain teachings of the scripture, and even unbelief in general, Pride and other sins can be a challenge.

I found two major sins or blockages that stop a person from growing in sanctification and holiness through the dying of the old nature. One is (judgment), false judgment a sin that is embedded in our flesh, the result of that sin is not being able to love our enemies and even love our brothers in Christ the way we are called to love.

It seems to make it impossible to express the spirit of love through our bodies.

I believe false judgment is the most important sin to deal with Jesus definitely taught about it and so did the apostles but we often brush over it thinking that we are not judging anyone but in reality, we could be judging millions of people and not loving quite a big proportion of the human race.

The other sin is the sin of unbelief, in which we doubt and do not believe that the blood of Christ has the ability to cleanse us from every sin and cause us to walk like Christ walked completely free from the dominion of sin.

When we doubt the doctrine of the power of the blood of Christ to completely sanctify us we give faith and power to the old man as fuel to stay alive and so the results are a holding on to certain inclinations of The flesh.

I think some of these hidden sins are so embedded in our character that we don't believe that it's possible to have a complete change and walk in the new creation as sons of the heavenly man the second Adam.

Because of this by default, We tend to hold on to and identify with the nature of Adam in many different ways instead of fully identifying with the nature of Christ and realizing that it's our inheritance to walk as Christ walked and to have Christ in us the hope of Glory the fully formed lamb within us.

True purity goes extremely deep and way beyond external sin. The pursuit of holiness and as Paul talked about entire sanctification, is the complete death of the old nature and no mixture of the old nature with the new nature, it's the fully-formed Christ, as Paul said I labor until Christ is formed and it takes years of seeking the kingdom and his righteousness which is bound to imparted divine nature which is the righteousness of Christ.

When we are young in the faith we rest in the imputed righteousness and our justification, as we get older while still trusting in the blood's power to justify us we move into the place where imparted righteousness and the sanctification of the Soul becomes a passion and persute. And begin to trust that He who began a good work in us will finish it through that holy process, in this life.

Righteousness is imputed to us by grace through Faith, but the reason why many us don't feel righteous is because our Imparted Righteousness which is the divine nature that we have partaken in has not grown much and taken over to dominate the soul.

Many beloved still walk with their flesh and old nature trying to dictate and control their soul and so their conscience is defiled somewhat, though not absolutely through sin. But they are stunted through sinful behavior or just carnal thoughts.

It's vitally important that we grow in divine nature which is imparted righteousness the reality of Christ in us. Paul said I labor in birth pains until Christ is formed in you.

When Christ begins to be formed in our souls we do feel righteous because it is he who lives in us, it is no longer you who lives but Christ who lives and the reality of the death of self begins to be experienced.

Saying this is not being critical of beloved Christians in any way, but in reality the apostle Paul said it is babes in Christ that don't know good from evil and they act out their carnality in a similar way to worldly people. We all as Christians need to grow up and develop into truly mature people of God.

Deep within our spirit is the call to walk as Christ walked and this is done through pursuing holiness and believing that it is our birthright and through the golden law from Jesus Himself🙏

To reckon ourselves dead to sin we must allow the Holy Spirit to convict us of sin so that we by that same spirit do put to death the sins of the body.

To identify with the crucifixion of Christ, and allow the death of Christ to be our own death, the death of the old man, we must understand that this still is another expression of repentance towards God and repentance from sin, we must have a sensitive conscience towards what sin is to have it crucified and put to death, this is done through us not denying or self-justifying our sin and self excusing it.

So as we come to the altar which is the cross we must allow the sword of the spirit which is the word of God which is the high priest's work of cutting and exposing every sin of the old nature so that we can reject it and be healed.

The idea of dying with Christ doesn't replace or contradict the deep work of the Holy Spirit to bring out and show all the sin that is within the old nature that has to die. We must take all our sin towards the altar ( the cross) to be dealt with.

This becomes a deeply spiritual experience of the heart it's not an exercise we do through the intellect.

It also involves the suffering and hard trials and stripes that occurred before the death of the Cross, which is part of partaking of the sufferings of Christ and the refining and testing of our faith through the second fire.

Jesus learned obedience through the things that he suffered we must also walk through the valley of the shadow of death and experience suffering. He who suffers ceases from sin says the apostle. This has a purifying effect and through that process, God allows every crutch that we lean on in this world to be knocked out from under us so that we learn the hard way only to lean on and trust in Christ and what he did on the cross for us.

Once we begin walking to the cross and walk up to the hill of Calvary it has a pride-stripping effect and we become ready to be placed upon the cross with Christ, but not as a Barabbas, as a murderer in heart.

Our hearts must be prepared before the sacrificial death. The apostle Paul said offer yourselves as a living sacrifice Holy and acceptable to God.

Two types of people try to be crucified with Christ Barabbas, or the humbled thief.

Learning obedience through the things that we suffer on the whipping Post and the pathway up to Golgotha, on the pathway of bearing the cross even before we die with Christ we must learn to pray and say forgive them Lord for they know not what they do, peace to the world and good will towards men.

We can't take false judgment upon the sacrificial altar, we must allow the spirit to do a cleansing work to prepare us for that special death, for the deep work of the Cross.
Good night and God bless everyone 🙏☺️

Thank you, Brother Gary for sharing! Every true (disciple). follower of Jesus must deny his self, take up his cross, and then follow the Lord Jesus in the way.

We must identify with the Lord Jesus Christ in his death, burial, resurrection and ascension.

We must stand on the word of God Romans, 6:6 that our sin nature has been crucified with him that the body of sin might be destroyed that we should not serve sin anymore.. we must recon ourselves to be dead, indeed unto sin and alive unto God through Jesus Christ.

As you said, in your post, the Christian life is Galatians 2:20. I have been crucified with Christ, nevertheless, I live yet it’s not I that lives, but Christ that lives in me, and the life I now live in the flesh, I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Amen 🙏, your welcome Mike

"The disciples of Jesus must not fondly imagine that they can simply run away from the world and huddle together in a little band. False prophets will rise up among them, and amid the ensuing confusion they will feel more isolated than ever. There is someone standing by my side, who looks just like a member of the Church. He is a prophet and a preacher. He looks like a Christian, he talks and acts like one. But dark powers are mysteriously at work; it was these who sent him into our midst. Inwardly he is a ravening wolf: his words are lies and his works are full of deceit. He knows only too well how to keep his secret dark, and go ahead with his work. It is not faith in Jesus Christ which made him one of us, but the devil. Maybe he hopes his intellectual ability or his success as a prophet will bring him power and influence, money and fame. His ambitions are set on the world, not on Jesus Christ. Knowing that Christians are credulous people, he conceals his dark purpose beneath the cloak of Christian piety, hoping that his innocuous disguise will avert detection. He knows that Christians are forbidden to judge, and he will remind them of it at the appropriate time. After all, other men’s hearts are always a closed book. Thus he succeeds in seducing many from the right way. He may even be unconscious himself of what he is doing. The devil can give him every encouragement and at the same time keep him in the dark about his own motives.

Such a pronouncement of Christ’s could cause his disciples great anxiety. Who knows his neighbour? Who knows whether the outward appearance of a Christian conceals falsehood and deception underneath? No wonder if mistrust, suspicion and censoriousness crept into the Church. And no wonder if every
brother who falls into sin incurred the uncharitable criticism of his brethren, now that Jesus has said this. All this distrust would ruin the Church but for the word of Jesus which assures us that the bad tree will bring forth bad fruit. It is bound to give itself away sooner or later. There is no need to go about prying into the hearts of others. All we need do is to wait until the tree bears fruit, and we shall not have to wait long. This is not to say that we must draw a distinction between the words of the prophet and his deeds: the real distincton is that between appearance and reality. Jesus tells us that men cannot keep up appearances for long. The time of vintage is sure to come, and then we shall be able to sift the good from the bad. Sooner or later we shall find out where a man stands. It is no use die tree refusing to bear any fruit, for the fruit comes of its own accord. Any day the time may come to decide for the world or for the Church. We may have to decide, not in some spectacular matter, but in quite trivial, everyday affairs. And then we shall see
and discern the good from the bad. In that day the reality will stand the test, not appearances.

In such times as these, Jesus requires his disciples to distinguish between appearance and reality, between themselves and pseudo-Christians. They will then rise above all inquisitive examination of others, but they will need a sincere determination to recognize the verdict of God when it comes. At any moment
the nominal Christians may be separated from the real ones. We may even find that we are nominal Christians ourselves. Here is a challenge to closer fellowship with Jesus and to a more loyal discipleship. The bad tree is cut down and cast into the fire. All its display of finery proves ultimately to be of no avail.

Verse 21. The separation which the call of Jesus
creates goes deeper still. After the division between Church and world, between nominal Christians and real ones, the division now enters into the very heart of the confessional body. St Paul says: "No man can say, Jesus is Lord, but in the Holy Spirit” (I Cor. 12.3). It is impossible to surrender our lives to Jesus or call him Lord of our own free will. St Paul is deliberately reckoning with the possibility that men may call Jesus Lord without the Holy Spirit, that is without having received the call. It was harder to understand this in days when it brought no earthly gain to be a Christian and when Christianity was a dangerous profession. "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven. . .” "Lord, Lord” is the Church's confession of faith." -Dietrich Bonhoeffer

ES

Brother, why are you so obsessed with false prophets? You can’t even put a post on here without you coming in and warning , watch out for the false Prophets.
You have already commented that you don’t know iof a single true prophet in the church today, but you believe that you are a true prophet of God, so at least you believe in one. You believe in yourself as a true prophet.

I moreso wanted to point out the section in that quote regarding judging.

I've never claimed that office. The church as a whole is called to be a prophetic/apostolic presence in the world.

Brother, if you want to talk about false Prophets, why don’t you start your own post, but the post that Gary started had nothing to do with false prophets.

Mike,

Brother Evan's post goes way beyond false prophets and I believe touches upon good admonition for Jesus' soon return and his oft repeated NT message to the churches about deceiving and being deceived. When he returns, his judgement of the household first will look something like his message when he first came. In order to respect your request, though, i will post my comment on a seperate thread even though I think Gary's post and many others he has made recently are all about judging the brethern made in the context of not judging other mens' ministries, which would include, in his mind, judging the men themselves.

The separate thread will be "ministry of righteousness".

Thank you brother Robert! I’m not trying to be difficult or offensive so brother Evan please forgive me if I offended you.

Thanks for your post, Evan.
This was an article from more than 6 months ago, rather than false prophets or false believers or nominal Christians the article is not focused on them but rather on genuine born-again Christians and spirit-baptized Christians who haven't appropriated the fullness of the Cross, and what things block progress in that respect.

And so it's more of a focus on the inner sins that are easily overlooked and hidden, like unforgiveness judgment, offense, bitterness, Pride and Arrogance, a divided heart, and doubt, rather than the more common outward sins.

I think when it comes to judging a tree by its fruits, this can be extremely difficult because when Christians who are not mature try to judge and in many cases, there is still part of the log that's in their eye they have an extracted so they're not seeing clearly anyways.

The context of that parable that Jesus spoke about is overlooked.

Because when it comes to what appears to be bad fruit the apostle Peter exhibited what many would call bad fruit when he started to teach heresy according to Paul and many were carried along with the hypocrisy teaching gentiles that they had to become Jews along with the judaises that came from James this would appear to be bad fruit and so when a Christian falls into that type of sin of legalism or any other sin it can appear to be bad fruit but in reality, Peter was a good tree and he produced good fruit he wasn't a poisonous tree that produced poisonous berries or he wasn't a thorn bush producing thorns.

So many Christians look to see if they can find sin in someone whom they don't approve of because of their doctrine or their practices and as soon as they find something they say look look bad fruit, must be a bad tree but in hindsight most Christians during their walk from when they first get saved right through to the end of life have stumblings and James said we all stumble in many things and so if someone has a critical judgmental heart they will pick up on their stumbling and fails and sins and then judge the Christian as being bad, a bad tree.

Jesus Was actually making a distinction between the Pharisees who were devoid of the spirit and had a form of godliness but denied the power, outwardly had their cup clean but inwardly they had dead men bones, completely devoid of life, he warned against these people against the leaven of their hypocrisy.

These were the false teachers and the false brethren of Christ's day many of whom claimed to receive the Messiah as lord but never truly received the spirit the apostle Paul called them false brethren and claimed that anyone who followed through with their teachings had fallen from Grace.

It's true that Christianity is full of nominal Christians with false teachers, false priests, false pastors, and prophets those that have never been born of God nor have they received the filling of the spirit.

May god bless them and Grant them repentance and fill them with with his spirit and awake in them from their religious sleep.

These people need the cross the shallow and initial work of the Cross, to enter into the feast of the Passover to become born again just like the Jehovah's witness and just like the heathens so to speak there's no difference and many are genuine and have been caught up in religion and don't know any difference because they're under a deception

These people need the gospel rather than gossip or condemnation for they're already condemned.

We have been given the privilege to take the gospel to these types of people and pray for them and intercede on their behalf before the almighty God and plead the blood over their lives that God May show Mercy to them and many many of these types of people become born again whether it's a Jehovah witness that comes out or a Mormon or a liberal Christian or a nominal Christian brought up in a conservative fundamentalist religion but never ever got born again, there's always the chance that they will come out of this and so continually pointing out their sins and talking to one another about their sins achieves nothing, God is not pleased with this behavior when genuine Christians fall into that trap of not interceding for all men and as Peter said for God desires that all might be saved and come to that knowledge of the truth.

Robert you're wrong again with your assumptions which is a good example of judging me wrongly.

It all comes from the heart if our heart is pure a spiritual man judges all things yet himself is rightly judged by no man according to the apostle Paul.

This comes into a place of spiritual discernment and a place of love and a desire to see people blessed and restored because God's grace has even been upon us and saved us from the dust and possibly restored us when we sinned .

If you're talking about Mike bickel all I said was let's wait for the investigation before we start to believe or judge someone for doing something they may not have even done. Out of the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every charge word accusation be established.

And let's not gossip amongst ourselves about hearsay or even about someone else's sins.

Brother Mike posted a good remark from pastor Joe sweet who said it's none of his business.

I would say at this stage of the investigation we should heed the words of Paul who told the believers to mind their own business and work with their own hands, that's probably what Joe's sweet was talking about.

Gary said:
"It all comes from the heart if our heart is pure a spiritual man judges all things yet himself is rightly judged by no man according to the apostle Paul."

Brother... That out of context interpretation is what leads to the abuses we see throughout the charismatic movement. Someone will say, "I am a spiritual man, and because I am a spiritual man, you can't judge me, and in fact, I am the one that judges all things, because I am a spiritual man". You may deny this is what you just said, but all I did was reverse the order of your words, to more fully illustrate the underlying misinterpretation. It's sort of like when the Pharisees rebuked the healed man, "you were altogether born in sin, and you presume to teach us?"

"The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one. "For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ.” (1 Corinthians 2:14-16)

All you have to do is read the verse in it's context and it instantly rebukes your usage of it without any other comment. It is the natural man over and against the spiritual man, and the inability for the natural man to discern (or judge) spiritual things/the things of God. Once again, you have shown a fundamental misunderstanding of what it means to discern and judge, ironically in a post about discernment...

But as to what you in response to my post, I was just sharing that quote because I think it's pertinent regarding the over arching theme of rejecting all judgement indiscriminately. I agree with some of your post, but would recommend the book "The Normal Christian Life" by Watchman Nee. I think it would help in a sharpening of your understanding of the purpose of the blood, and the cross in the christian life.

Also, I would have to disagree if your saying Jesus was addressing Pharisees and judaizers in the sermon on the mount. It was obvious who they were, Jesus and the apostles were not talking about obvious deception, but deception that looks strikingly similar to truth.

Brother I know social media text message is not the best way to communicate,
What you've done there is completely misunderstood what I mean by quoting that scripture that had nothing to do with what you've just said.

I quote that in the context that when a man is spiritually matured and he's reached the level of holiness and maturity the apostle Paul says because of this his spiritual sensors have been exercised to discern good and evil we keep that into the context of the verses mentioned in Hebrews.

And so he can discern good and evil and so he can judge good and evil because it comes from a place of spiritual discernment and not judging in the flesh, it's actually a Grace of the new man and the new character that has been formed in him a gift of Grace whereby he's able to discern and yes because he is spiritual he is not rightly judged and discerned by the world, the world doesn't understand the spiritual man the world can't discern how the spiritual man thinks and operates so therefore he's not rightly judged by no man.

The natural man does not receive the things of the spirit so the natural man and the colonel fall in nature of Adam does not receive or understand the spiritual man but thinks him to be mad or foolish.

So what I was saying is there are many Christians who are not mature to that point where they can discern all things though they may discern something and so when they try to discern the sin in other people they completely miss the mark and find themselves in a place of misjudging and assuming someone's character someone's motivation someone's words, some of these people for discernment rely more so on the gift of discerning of spirits, and others just judge with the flesh because they are carnal and they're not able or capable to judge as the spiritual man judges,though I do believe there are levels that people grow into whether discernment and judgment for the things of God and the things of Satan, they and we become more fine tuned.

Gary you said:
"I quote that in the context that when a man is spiritually matured and he's reached the level of holiness and maturity the apostle Paul says because of this his spiritual sensors have been exercised to discern good and evil we keep that into the context of the verses mentioned in Hebrews."

That isn't the context of the scripture though. I appreciate that you at least acknowledge the fact you are using it for your own purposes, and not for it's original intent or meaning. This at least will not lead people to think that is what Paul said or meant, and makes it plain you have used it for your own purposes. We have to be careful to not read Scripture with an agenda in mind. I believe the Holy Spirit will quicken scripture to us personally with meanings that may be more personal than the original intent of the writer, but these quickenings are for us and us alone, and not for teaching purposes, or to pass along to others. God often speaks this way to His people; but this never trumps the original meanings and intentions of the scripture.

What you said here sort of defines private interpretation, and I would caution against that, especially when trying to use a verse to underline a point you are making about wrongly applied judgment. Right division of truth is central, especially if we stand back and look upon a brother who is genuinely concerned and bearing his heart to us, and tell him he is wrong (as Robert did to you, and you said he was wrong, using that verse to justify it).

As an aside, I think the preoccupation with knowing good and evil to be folly - I'm still hashing out the theology of it, but I don't believe the Christian life has anything to do with knowing good from evil. That's the wrong tree brother.

Spiritual Immaturity
12For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the [b]oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food. 13For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. 14But solid food belongs to those who are [c]of full age, that is, those who by reason of [d]use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

14But [j]a natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15But the one who is spiritual discerns all things, yet he himself is [k]discerned by no one. 16For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, THAT HE WILL INSTRUCT HIM? But we have the mind of Christ.

To be able to discern what comes from the holy spirit or what comes from man's flesh or what comes from a demon in the context of spoken words is the birthright of the mature and function in the mind of Christ

And you are free to disagree and apply as you say your own private quickened revelation from the holy spirit so to speak.

Natural man = unregenerate, not born again, unsaved, etc.

Your entire premise is founded upon a misinterpretation and a misapplication. To compare these scriptures and use them together doesn't make a lot of sense to me, because one is comparing spiritually immature people to people who should be far beyond where they currently are; the other unregenerate people with those who are born again.

I'll bow out now, because if I can't clearly relay that than I am failing in my communication somewhere, and this discussion is pointless and I don't think it will go anywhere.

Have a good night Gary. If I think of a way to more clearly explain what I mean I'll post it, otherwise I'll bow out of this as it's already devolving into snipes.

Brother, I'm not stupid lol , I know the nature man is referring to an unregenerate person .

In Paul's letter to Corinth, he compares the immature believer with worldly people and calls them carnal, because they were behaving like natural men.

So natural man and carnal Christianity are comparable and similar.

You have a Good night too brother, Blessings to you

1And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ. 2I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able; 3for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and [a]behaving like mere men? 4For when one says, "I am of Paul,” and another, "I am of Apollos,” are you not carnal?

Good original post by Gary.

…………even before we die with Christ we must learn to pray and say forgive them Lord for they know not what they do, peace to the world and good will towards men.

Amen.

The cross is NOT the place where judgement triumph over mercy.