The stages of Relationship with God

7 September 2022 Stages of Relationship with God.

Our intimate relationship has different stages that we never understand when we are in the early stage as babes in Christ.

Blessedly God keeps us in a bubble of Mercy and Grace as we move through those first stages identifying with Christ as he moves through His first stages of His ministry where the sufferings of Christ is very minimal, we learnt to endure rejection with those close to us but we're in the amazement stage, like a honeymoon everything seems bright as we sit down at the wedding feast watching Jesus turn water into wine, most here are still having natural and Carnal enjoyments. Here we identify with the new birth and then the baptism of the spirit our relationship grows as we begin to understand God and the miraculous.

But then the struggle of sin seems to become very apparent, and we begin to realise this is a battle.

Slowly We lose trust in ourselves, but still we struggle with trusting God.

Then the shaking begins and the sufferings intensifie and we begin to move through the identification of the sufferings of Christ and the partaking of those things.
Which Amounts to chastisement and God lifting his hand allowing the bubble of grace and mercy that we were in to be removed as form of loving chastisement.

This eventually leads to a partaking of holiness according to the letter of Hebrews.
This is a very hard stage to deal with it is a demonic unleashing of spirits into our life which breaks away our trusting and connection with earthly things he removes our crutches that we hold onto that held ourselves up in traditionally tough times that we may gone through in the past.

Then the Book of Job becomes a reality somewhat and we truly partake in the sufferings of Christ.

The whipping Post and the road to Calvary, the carrying of own cross we realise what's going on and this is leading to the crucifixion of our own old self, though it is hard we embrace the chastisement knowing that this is leading to a special place.

Our focus becomes the cross and we lose desires and attachments to earthly things through this process of shaking.

Some can even identify with a type of great tribulation period before a special coming of spiritual resurrection power when we move from sufferings to death, to then our souls become resurrected immersed in resurrection power and the inner man as Paul said, Christ in you.

We labour and travail in birth pains and Christ is formed.

Finally the death of the old self and we identify with the the apostle Paul that it is no longer I who Live but it is Christ who lives in me , the resurrected Christ finally builds up our spirit man until it is formed and takes his seat in The temple of the soul.

Our relationship with God has moved to the resurrected level which only suffering and death of the old self could achieve.

The heart becomes pure, unmixed with the old Adam and becomes Christ living his life through us.

But there is still another level of relationship with the father through his son Jesus Christ and that is when we move into the holy of holies which is the same thing as living the ascended life.

Not many Christians make it truly into the holiest of holies or into the throne room of God through true identification, but we boldly approach the throne, bu

While most know it as a reality by faith, that the spirit gives through revelation, and some people get to taste it as a type of visatation experience. In our relationship with God we go from Glory to Glory to glory to Glory and there's always more in journey through his kingdom ✝️🛐

Gary,

You and I seem to have different views of a lot of stuff which is fine. I don't know you personally, so don't take my opposing posts as personal or lying in wait to go against you. But the things you post on are very important topics and so I hope you will receive my response as an attempt to give my sincere view and then arrive at the truth if it is possible.

With that said, Jesus says to die daily. Paul says He dies daily. He says, I have been crucified to the world and the world to me. Jesus made self hatred, life hatred, possession hatred and even natural family hatred to be a condition to be a disciple which is prior to relationship intimacy but necessary for it. What you have said seems to imply that death is a process and entering the throne room of God. or the full presence of Jesus is the result of that "process."

First, is my read of what you said accurate? If so, are the Scriptures I paraphrased to be understood a different way than I have thought? Finally, can't a fullness of the Spirit, an extremely close intimacy with God, happen immediately upon daily self death and walking in the light ? Of course, knowing God more deeply in all His ways and glory is not only a process that happens over time, but one that will happen over an eternity. Because we will grow more and more in understanding and spiritual appreciation and enjoyment of God in heaven through greater and greater revelations, then I only see self as an impediment to that eternal process and death of self not a cause of it. Self love and love of the world blinds us and estranges us from God (Genesis 3 and Exodus 14).

I say all this to be an encourager to new believers that they too can walk in deep experiential intimacy with God in a kind of fullness on this side of eternity which grows more and more as we walk in His ways with Him. The only way to walk with Him is to die to self love and live with total devotion to Him. I'm not trying to preach over you. This is different than what you've said, I think.

The reason I post on this is not to have a new jousting session. I post it because this speaks to an issue I hear all the time from people who have not experienced the reality of the fullness of Christ in their heart experience so it's a common unfortunate issue that needs to be understood well. I've heard the line of thought you are referring to about entering the holy of holies, etc. I don't find that in Scripture so it is, as Paul points out, a "noble thing" to make sure it's verified in the Word.

With all that said, I do of course acknowledge that we can die to self and then resurrect it often. That is why we have to die daily.

Gary

I will tell you a story, a testimony of mine; it's why I write so much about Holiness. I had become a Christian and had attended the church for several years, then went on two years of Bible school, but the Pastor was more and more controlling.

After two years of bible school, I could no longer bear it; the mental anguish I was going through was horrendous. Most people would go on to ministry, but I walked away from the church.

I remember the day vividly; I crossed the street and began praying. I told God that I believed all that he had spoken to me about the calling on my life and that I believed every word he said. I went on in prayer and said I didn't know how he would do it, but I believed that he would.

It was then I heard the Holy Spirit speak up in my Spirit and say, "You'll be like Job."

It was not the comforting words I wanted to hear, but I now know it was how he would lead me into the calling of God in my life. I see it as clear as day.

It was a few years later in Africa, when boils began to appear on my skin, that I remembered the words spoken to me: "You'll be like Job."

I went to fasting and prayer - it was the answer to that prayer that God opened up the Holiness teaching through Duncan Campbell's testimony; it was there I got a glimpse of the Sin nature that remains in me. When I returned to the UK, God confirmed what he had been saying through the book "Holiness the Key to Revival."

Since then, I have lost all the money I had, not just once, as I rebuilt and then lost it all again, and the hardest one was yet to come: the death of my Son.

In the middle of this year, I have perceived the calling of God, my time is coming, so in the last few weeks, I have adopted a simple prayer as I head into the New Year, looking to surrender all and be willing to become identified with Christ and accept the death that the cross will bring to me.

God, have mercy on me, a sinner; make me as Holy as a man can be.

Robert I still not back home yet so i wont make a long post.

Im not aware of Jesus saying I die daily but when the Paul said it he was speaking in the context of facing death daily in the body.

30 And why do we endanger ourselves every hour? 31 I face death every day, brothers, as surely as I boast about you in Christ Jesus our Lord. 32 If I fought wild beasts in Ephesus for human motives, what did I gain?

denying your self and taking up a cross was not a pre requirement, Jesus commands to be perfect as our father was perfect was not also , but were part and parcel of being taught trained and discipled ..

Yes being filled with all the fullness of God , being made perfect in love ,and perfect love casting out all fear ,and when one grows as babe in Christ drinking only milk and still being carnal as Paul said and the many other verses teach that this a process , that Paul had himself gone through , with out any doubt brother . And is what we aim for.

I travail in birth till Christ is formed within you is a process , the more of Christ the less of us ,he must increase and i must decrease until my head is cut off and on the platter so to speak.

No doubt babes in Christ can have a close relationship but they are still babes and carnal Paul taught this.

The temple talk is shadows of the temple, old testament typology, the new testament is full of typology ,and can be even considered allegorical teaching.

I would go as far as saying most Christians who think they have experienced all the fullness of God and they have arrived and been completely perfected in the new man ,speak from a place of pride. Any hunger to be more like Christ and to be more pleasing to God proves that there is a closer union and co relationship to develop in Christ .

Im Little surprised to hear you have arrived .

Wonderful testimony Col , I believe that you have calling on your life and embracing The Job like experience can be unbelievably hard, some Christians don"t go through it , but the more you go through the more grace will be imparted to you and in the end become more like Christ and be used by God in a special way.

Col my main prayer daily ,,, is one word : Mercy

CofG

What I read in Gary's post is like the Eastern Orthodox tradition - called Theosis or divinization.

I have pulled some items from Eastern Orthodox sites these are not my writings.

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Theosis is the understanding that humans can have a real union with God and become like God to such a degree that we participate in the divine nature.

Many Protestants, and even some Roman Catholics, might find the Orthodox concept of Theosis unnerving. Especially when they read a quote such as this one from St. Athanasius: "God became man so that men might become gods," they immediately fear the influence of Eastern mysticism.

Theosis, the Eastern Orthodox would say, is akin to the Wesleyan understanding of holiness or perfection, with the added element of our mystical union with God in Christ as both the means and the motive for attaining perfection.

St. Maximos the Confessor: defined Theosis as "total participation in Jesus Christ."

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So what I see in Gary's writings is a three stages of union with God that the Eastern Orthodox use.

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For example - Eastern Orthodox would say

Finally, countless saints throughout history have demonstrated the possibility of deification as a reality in their lives. They attained deification only after intense suffering. Their sufferings came through persecution and martyrdom, intense ascetic discipline and countless nightly prayer vigils wrestling with evil spirits to obtain victory in the spiritual life. Through suffering, such blessed victory was won.

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I don't fully understand it all, and I stay away from ascetic disciplines and contemplative prayer, and I certainly don't look to suffer, although, as you can see in my post below, I do mention Job, that was not me making it up in my own strength that was the path God put me down.

I also see in Scripture - Peter in Matthew 16 found out that Jesus was to suffer - pulled Christ up and rebuked him: "God forbid it, Lord! This shall never happen to You!” Then goes on to write all that in 1 Peter 4 about suffering; Peter you could say was completely changed in his attitude and thinking.

Thinking about it, the danger here is reading all this and then trying to find a way to Union with God through suffering; if we are to suffer, it should be through God's will and not some man-made way of suffering to try to attain Union with God.

My two cents worth...

Here is a link to the Eastern Orthodox site if you want to read more.

http://ww1.antiochian.org/content/theosis-partaking-divine-nature.

I like weasly but never studied orthadox mystasism, and i dont enjoy suffering nor do want any more if i had a choice, the last 7 years is enough for me

Amen Brother!

"I travail in birth till Christ is formed within you is a process .”

Brother Gary, you are talking about spiritual growth, which is a process. We receive eternal life and are born again when we receive Jesus as our Lord and savior, but there is still the salvation of the soul that is needed, the sanctification of our spirit, soul, and body, which is a process.

"And He gave some as apostles, some as prophets, some as evangelists, some as pastors and teachers,
for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the building up of the body of Christ;
until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ.” ( Ephesians 4: 11-13)

Gary,
You wrote :7 September 2022 Stages of Relationship with God
What is the source of this article ?
Who was the teacher ?

Thanks
Markus

I think this is all a drastic over complication, and distraction from Johns thoughts, where we find 4 "stages".

Little children
Children
Young men
Fathers

I guess we could look to the religious understandings based in cliches, or the simplicity that is in Christ.

John simplifies this topic down to the point where even someone like me can understand it, and a plain, literal reading of his first epistle throws a massive wrench in the man made religious jargon that orbits the truth of the Gospel.

Evan, you are right about spiritual growth and maturity. Part of this, though, has to do with fellowship with the Father, His Son and one another which is covered by John in 1 John 1 discussing walking in the light as a prerequisite and not linking it to maturity. Of course, one who is mature is more likely to be walking in the light in constancy. To me, "fellowship" is spiritual intimacy and spiritual knowing . I was trying to understand or at least have Gary share where he got the "holy of holies" idea of fellowship or intimacy relating to maturity.

Evan mentioned that John simply used the idea of "Fathers” as the mature point in the process of spiritual growth for men. It raised an interesting question to me. Why "fathers” as a description of the spiritually mature man ? Here’s the Holy Spirit’s description of spiritual fatherhood in the church.

1Th 2:10 12-

You are witnesses, and so is God, of how devoutly and rightly and blamelessly we behaved toward you believers;
just as you know how we were exhorting and encouraging and imploring each one of you as a father would his own children,
so that you would walk in a manner worthy of the God who calls you into His own kingdom and glory.

We need a lot more spiritual fathers in the church who have a fatherly heart and recognized responsibility to young men in the church, fatherly examples of devoutness, righteousness who are blameless, and fatherly counsel to young men towards Godly worthiness. It’s not just an experience of intimacy we need as we walk in the light. If we want fellowship we need "fathership” in the body.

Amen Mike. Ephesians 4 is a perfect example of the Saints being raised up an equipped and then matured with the help of the 5fold ministry, Colin is right saying that I do have a bent towards the holiness teachings of John Wesley and those that believe in similar ideas.

I think the teaching and the doctrine of the perfect bride being made ready for the coming of the Lord will be found to be teaching the same type of maturing and holiness.

Also, believe in typology and that we clearly see the Passover feast in the Old Testament had a fulfillment and reality under the new covenant and was connected with Christ's crucifixion and us coming to the cross to be born again and The wrath Of God going over the top of the house because we've been covered by the blood of Christ the doorposts of our heart have on them the shed blood and therefore we're justified and so that feast represents that.

I also believe the feast of Pentecost has fulfillment in the new covenant and it represents the coming of the spirit and the law of the spirit, this represents the first fruits of the harvest or the former rain that is poured out onto the earth as the field of harvest.

And then I believe in the coming feasts the feast of trumpets and the day of atonement and the feast of tabernacles will be also fulfilled under the new covenant and it will be connected with the church and particularly the day of atonement is going to represent the bride being made ready and a company of people being brought through the maturing stages on a corporate level and she will be mantled with the Glory of the lord in a way that the church as a corporate entity has never experienced, individuals have tasted it and some may have experienced it.

And this is represented as the high priest entering in behind the veil figuratively in the Old Testament and coming face-to-face with the glory, and because Jesus is the high priest and we are priests and kings and are in Christ the high priest ourselves, we get to experience a measure of Glory on the earth the way people experience a measure of Glory when they enter into the feast of Pentecost and experience the baptism of Fire and of the holy spirit this will be a unique experience that many have not tasted.

This will be the end-time generation and bride who experiences the second coming of Christ when he comes.

And just to be clear I don't believe that this is talking about the glorified bodies and the resurrected bodies that we are waiting for, there will still be a transfiguration that takes place when we meet Christ in the air.

This also lines up with temple worship and the three stages, the outer Court the inner court, and the holy of holies.

And the three stages of the Christian walk one as a babe an immature Christian who has never really experienced the suffering of Christ nor have they experienced or identified with being crucified with Christ and the old man dying.

The Christians who have suffered and learned obedience through the things that they've suffered walk the road of Calvary and been placed upon the cross and experienced the death with Christ as a co-crucifixion.

The resurrected and ascended life which would be a third stage equal to the other third stages, experiencing the holy of holies or the thrown room.

🙏✝️

Evan in all honesty, this is no more complicated than your conversation with Robert about a simple verse about walking in the light.

I thought you brothers were going to write a co-authored book with that one verse. LOL

Colin Quoted: (edited )
"What I read in Gary's post is like the Eastern Orthodox tradition - called Theosis or divinization."
"Many Protestants, and even some Roman Catholics, might find the Orthodox concept of Theosis unnerving"

I don't find it "unnerving" but unbiblical and I have nothing to do with it.

Markus

Markus

It would be best if you had written "Colin Quoted" because both those quotes are from the website I linked to.

Maybe I didn't highlight that enough.

If I were going to stand or fall on those words (Theosis or divinization), I would point to the scripture in Ephesians 4:22-24 (KJV)

That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; and be renewed in the spirit of your mind; and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Instead of theosis, sanctification, being set apart or made holy, is the term that is used more today.