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I'm either crazy, an alarmist, downright negative and pessimistic or right.

C
CofG Dec 26, 2023

In Revelation 17 and 18, God calls His people to "come out” from Babylon and more particularly to pull away from sexual immorality and covetousness that she is caught up in. Otherwise, she will suffer the judgment about to fall on Babylon for these two sins ( same sins that caused the judgement against Sodom and Israel in the OT ).

Jesus, before He was departing the earth, was emphatically warning His disciples to beware of the false…. false professors,. false teachers, false prophets, false spirits and false eschatology. All of these could lead His true sheep away from Him and jeopardise a good finish to their walks. Paul and Peter repeated the great danger of the "false" in their letters to particular churches and the all time everywhere church over and over. Paul likewise said let no one deceive you, the sexually immoral and the covetous will not inherit the Kingdom and those in the church that practice such things are destined for eternal punishment. Likewise, Paul fought against a false gospel, false apostles, false prophets and teachers and false eschatology. He warned the church in Ephesus day and night for 3 years with tears against the wolves that would come in from amongst their midst because he knew by the Spirit that these wolves would come in but also because he knew by the Spirit that the people for some reason would be unaware or perhaps desensitized to the danger of this dangerous reality. They would get to a place of partial or full blindness to the peril and/or the danger of desensitization.

The Spirit was telling the church in Ephesus for 3 years day and night with grief through Paul that this would happen for sure. Happen to a church that was known for its faith in Jesus and its love for all the saints. A church that had some of the most stellar saints and anointed servants in their midst.

Much of the NT is about what I just wrote and Paul, with such an overwhelming desire to see the Bride made ready for her Lord, was in constant concern, prayer and constant lookout for the false. After all, the Bride was in the lion’s territory, his den, and amongst those over whom the lion had control and could use to move against the Bride if her caregivers and caretakers were asleep at the job or had lost the sense of danger or concern because He tarries in His return.


My question is this……… how can His Spirit led people get to a place where they can be deceived either to walk care free WITH the world in sexual immorality or covetousness, words which should not even be named amongst his people. Second and very separate, how can the people get to a place of being deceived by false teachers and teaching, false prophets, false eschatology, and wolves from within ? How could they let the devil in the front door of their lives and churches?


Obviously, this isn’t a hypothetical question. It has always been an issue but doesn’t it seem like the sands in the hour glass are very quickly nearing the narrow neck of temporal history. It seems to me that the safest and most prudent path is to focus on getting ourselves in the best blameless, spotless and holy condition that God has promised and empowered. AT THE SAME TIME, we should be extremely focused on and spiritually in tune with the two fold danger of first, being mixed with the world and exposed to potential judgment with her. Second, we should be clear eyed and tender hearted to the danger to the Bride (global, regional, city, local and in our homes) and teary eyed and concerned for the risks of. the Bride becoming unaware and thus exposed to the false generally and the wolf from within who draws the sheep away to devour specially. The sheep are never drawn away by obvious false. Please don’t tell me the sheep aren’t in danger of being drawn away because they will only follow His voice. Jesus wouldn’t have warned his own apostles of the danger to themselves of being deceived in Matthew 10-25 if that were the case. Even his own men who walked with Him and would be filled with Him were warned.

Recent very public events ( recent as in the last generation) concerning "movements", "prophets", "apostles" and leaders of the churches or denominations have made this issue a 5 alarm issue for these times. I am led to believe God is speaking to the church through these events and his exposure of the false in such pronounced and blatant ways that, among other messages, He is saying "Wake Up”. Be Alert. Be sober minded.” These are not one off events nor unconnected. There is a church global warning from God now being given. The watchmen know.

Just like the churches in Revelation 2-3, people had fallen asleep to their own mixture with the world in a seriously damning way. Some are unaware of the false prophet, false teaching and wolves in their midst, Some in Revelation had gotten so close eyed in their dullness and spiritual sleep that they didn’t know Jesus was at the door about to leave and some didn’t know He was already gone and on the outside of the door.

Again, the question, how does the Church, the Bride, fall asleep in the lap of the world. How does she get so insensitive to spiritual realities ? Perhaps it starts with presumption. Or perhaps a lack of prayerfullnes seeking His help against temptation to fall away in danger as happened to the 3 who were with Jesus in the Garden and failed to take Jesus’ counsel, falling asleep when the wolf was at the door and about to steal their faith with fear ? Perhaps, they were all just concerned with their own lives and safety and the God commanded mutual concern to keep one another encouraged, serving and safe was unheeded or unrecognized. They were building their own personal lives and the exposure of the rest of the children to self deception or the deception of the false……teaching, prophetic, eschatology, false men of
God, false gospels, false ways and means of salvation, and wolves was not their concern when God said don’t be that way !

There are some people who just want to judge and accuse the Bride so she will be discouraged. There are some, though, who want to save some or much of the Bride when she is asleep or walking near the edge of a spiritual cliff. The evil one would make those two voices only one. There is the false accusation and the true. The only question I have is how does she get asleep and how does she get so mixed up in the world and how does she get so deceived and how does she not know the wolves and how does she not know how close to the edge she is ? That’s all one question really. It may have more than one answer though. Knowing how helps with the solution, knowing how helps with prevention and sleepiness.


From some quarters there will be those that, based on their eschatology or based on their view of the responsibilities or lack of it we have to each other, will say that these are non-issues, secondary issues, private individual issues or only questions or concerns for specially called and anointed. IF any of those are so, then I am forced to ignore most of the verses and thematic content of the NT. It’s as if most of the NT is not applicable to today if that is the reality.

I personally have been called to serve the Bride in preparing her for his arrival. I don’t mind saying that in the least. Been doing it for almost 3 decades. I would be remiss not to say that my spiritual senses have been on fire for the last year as to the dangers facing the Bride now. I have had dreams and visions, prophetic words given to me over the last 3 years that have convinced me to sound alarms. That isn’t meant to convince you of anything but rather to show my motive and heart for these comments. Not judgmental in the condemning sense. Not a smidgeon of it. Only love for the children who are at risk or in the river’s current heading for the edge and not aware. When a parent sees a child stepping into the oncoming tractor trailer about to consume the child, he or she will yell out at the child and come on pretty strong with exhortation. The strength of their reactions and actions, of their words and concern, is from love and great fear for the child, not condemnation.

I’m positive there are many who know the spiritual reality of where we are as a Bride today. " There are many likewise who will say "Where is the promise of His coming, things are as they always have been, it has always been this way, don’t worry, the earth isn’t passing away quickly, it will all get better.” Realism is always based on Scripture and rarely based on opinion or even prophesy based on weak Scriptural foundation. Jesus, and the writers of the NT spoke for the Father concerning the dangers to His children. Don’t give any credence to my perceived calling or life's work, on my opinion or on my own prophetic dreams, visions or words that I believe God has shared with me. Put zero stock in that and I'm certain you wouldn't anyway. I’m not trying to persuade you based on that and I'm not persuaded based on that. I'm persuaded by Scripture, by obvious signs not in the heavens but in judgements going on now within the household and their patent relationship to past judgements in tha past generation . I’m trying to draw attention to the persuasion of the bulk of NT Scripture and to ask questions and to point to signs of the times and His (not the enemy's) house cleaning in the church and to say, "what does the Bride see ?" What do the mature see ? Watchmen on the wall who love those within the walls will warn of what is on the horizon outside the walls of the city and will warn of what is weak within. Weakness within is just as dangerous as the strength of what is coming from without and almost always is the cause of it. The three greatest impediments to protecting His flock are not seeing, not heeding and not caring. NT Scripture says that clearly.

D
deogloria Dec 26, 2023

Robert
I understand your concern.
But you wrote a fairly long article and covered quite a bit of ground. That makes it a bit hard for me to make specific comments. You might have to break it down a bit ?

I let others comment first and might add some opinions later

Markus

C
CofG Dec 26, 2023

Thanks Markus,

Not sure how to break it down, but I will give it thought.

C
ccchhhrrriiisss Dec 26, 2023

Hi CofG,

Thanks for sharing.

Your post made me think of how Paul and Barnabas traveled to Jerusalem for that "council" with the apostles. The question at that time concerned circumcision among Gentiles who were finding Christ but were hearing: "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved" (Acts 15:1 ESV) and "It is necessary to circumcise them and to order them to keep the law of Moses" (Acts 15:5 ESV).

The apostles' ultimate response was a fairly simple epistle sent to these new Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:

.......

The brothers, both the apostles and the elders,

To the brothers who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia,

Greetings:

Since we have heard that some persons have gone out from us and troubled you with words, unsettling your minds, although we gave them no instructions, it has seemed good to us, having come to one accord, to choose men and send them to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will tell you the same things by word of mouth.

For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements: that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.

Farewell.


Acts 15:22-29 (ESV)

.......


It's an amazingly simple -- and possibly the very first -- epistle sent by the apostles.

At this point in Church history, these new believers had no Bibles or concordances on their shelves. They had no books on doctrine or eschatology. They didn't have copies of someone's commentary. They had no buildings and church "organizational" structure. They had no "Statement of Beliefs" by which they were required to verbally attest or declare to obtain official voting membership in those meetings.

They had simply come to believe in Christ Jesus and received the Holy Spirit. After this council, they also had a letter to be read to the believers alongside with some "leading me" sent by the apostles to verify what the apostles had said.

That response was simple: Abstain from idolatry (in its then-prominent forms among the Gentiles) and to abstain from sexual immorality.

Not long ago, one of the brothers sent a question in an email:

"Have you ever had a sense in your gut that we are not being told the whole truth on a matter? Or worse, that we are being outright lied to (deceived) by the main stream narrative, or education system, history books, etc.?

How do you discern that what you believe on a matter is true?"

My response was to convey that this is often the case. I don't unconditionally trust ANYONE. This is easily done when I was in college and grad school. I always put Christ first when I sat through years of academic coursework and research. However, this level of scrutiny is also true of EVERYTHING.

This doesn't mean that I am always apprehensive and suspicious of every brother or sister in Christ. I've met wonderful believers -- including pastors and teachers -- that I absolutely recognize their faith. Some of these men also have some of their messages included on SermonIndex.

Yet, I am also mindful that even great men of God can be wrong or even fail. For me, faith in Christ supersedes all else -- even those that I otherwise respect. This is not a sign of a lack of respect, appreciation or love for others but as holding absolute faith in Christ and God's Word above all else.

I remember something that Paul Washer said during one of the early "Revival conferences" sponsored by SermonIndex. He was speaking about something like whether he would allow his daughter to be or go off alone with a guy (whether a boyfriend, betrothed, etc.). He said that he would not. Yet, it wasn't because he doesn't trust the boy OR his daughter. Rather, it's because he doesn't even trust himself. Brother Paul was pointing out that he was fully aware of his own limits and potential to fail. I've heard men like David Wilkerson say something very similar.

Even wonderfully sincere believers can be wrong. Obviously, we don't try to be wrong. We seek truth via God's Word through prayer and study. Yet, even after much prayerful study, a person can embrace a doctrinal view or belief that they might later reject after even more prayer and study.

I don't mind being challenged about my own beliefs. This is true of academic matters and everything else in life. Yet, it is especially true of matters of doctrine and faith. I should always be able to not only say what I believe but the reasons why I believe it.

I suppose that I do exhibit somewhat less tolerance for individuals who lack patience, deference, love or the ability to accept scrutiny when it comes to their own doctrinal proclamations. There are those who seem to proudly declare their views in a manner that seems that they are unaware of any possibility of being incorrect. They are more difficult to discuss such matters with. Instead of "iron sharpening iron," it's more like they feel like they are the smith and everyone else is a potential utensil to be formed by what they "know."

Now, I am not referring to the completely essential truths of God's Word. Rather, I am speaking of those who make proclamations regarding various non-essential doctrinal issues -- or even other things pertaining to believers (such as Bible translations).

For example, I welcome someone who patiently and lovingly shares their views on eschatology. Even in disagreement, it helps when I prayerfully consider and study the matter over and over again. Yet, I also tend to walk away from mostly one-way discussions where someone (or a group) declares something to be an absolute truth and even question the sincerity of faith if anyone doesn't simply "accept" it.

As you point out, we have to scrutinize all recent "movements" or "five alarm" proclamations. In fact, we should be willing to consider but also accept OR reject anything -- even if it comes from respected ministers who make proclamations with the same "listen to me" attitude as Job's three friends.

When we finally stand before God and behold Him face-to-face, I suspect that many of the things that seemed to matter so much during life on Earth will just feel like wasted time. This includes pursuits and proclamations of doctrinal adherence that were far from essential (at least in terms of details).

Y
yuehan Dec 28, 2023

Hey Chris,

As you seem to be open to having an "iron sharpening iron" session, I'd like to take you up on your statements on essential v.s. non-essential truths of the Christian faith.

1. On what basis do you decide which are essential doctrinal truths, and which are non-essential?

2. Which specific doctrinal truths do you consider to be essential?


C
ccchhhrrriiisss Dec 28, 2023

Hi yuehan,


1. On what basis do you decide which are essential doctrinal truths, and which are non-essential?

Obviously, I don't have the authority to declare what IS or IS NOT "essential doctrinal truths." However, I do think that the Gospel is very simple. So, essentially, it would include those truths that are beyond dispute.

Paul reinforced some of these basic, essential truths in I Corinthians 15...

.......
.......

Now I would remind you, brothers, of the GOSPEL I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you -- unless you believed in vain.

For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received:

- that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures,
- that he was buried,
- that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures,
- and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me.

For I am the least of the apostles, unworthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God that is with me. Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.

I Corinthians 15:1-11 (ESV)

.......
.......

Elsewhere, Paul wrote in Romans...

.......

Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle, set apart for the GOSPEL of God, which he promised beforehand through his prophets in the holy Scriptures:

- Concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh and was declared to be the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord....

Romans 1:1-4 (ESV)

.......
.......


In fact, I think that the essentials of the faith are readily pointed out through the New Testament -- often where we find the word "gospel." This word, "euangelion" in the Greek text, first appears (time-wise in chronological order) when an angel appeared to the shepherds who were watching their flocks by night. The angel said:

.......
.......

"Fear not, for behold, I bring you GOOD NEWS of great joy that will be for all the people.

For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord. And this will be a sign for you: you will find a baby wrapped in swaddling cloths and lying in a manger.”

Luke 2:10-12 (ESV)

.......
.......


2. Which specific doctrinal truths do you consider to be essential?

With the aforementioned passages in the New Testament in mind (and all passages that clearly define this same "gospel"), I believe that the simplest form of the gospel -- the "good news" -- is the most basic and simplest form of what is indisputably essential.

I'd point to all of those passages that accompany mention of the "gospel" of Jesus Christ.

Y
yuehan Dec 28, 2023

Chris,

Here's a list of doctrines, some of which are trending issues amongst evangelicals today.

For each of the listed doctrines - which do you consider essential to the Christian faith? And which do you consider to be non-essential issues over which Christians can disagree and still have fellowship?


1. The deity of Jesus Christ (as opposed to Arianism)

2. The gospel is salvation by faith in God's grace alone (as opposed to salvation by sanctification = salvation by one's own righteous behaviour = salvation by works)

3. Baptism is only for those who have received the gospel (as opposed to those who practise infant baptism)

4. Marriage is between a man and a woman (as opposed to LGBT unions and LGBT sexual activity being acceptable to God)

5. LGBT identities are unbiblical and should not be embraced (as opposed to "LGBT identities are an intrinsic and inextricable part of one's identity" or "a person's gender identity and sexual orientation are on a spectrum")

6. God has provided 100% healing from porn addiction and LGBT desires for Christians in the gospel (as opposed to "no healing has been promised in this life; almost no one gets healed")

7. There is a future resurrection of the dead (as opposed to "the resurrection is already past")

8. Hell is eternal for those who reject the atonement of Christ (as opposed to annihilationism or universalism)


[Note that #2 and #6 directly pertain to the gospel and are addressed in Romans, while #7 and #8 are eschatological issues]


Y
yulboum Dec 28, 2023

Hi Robert,

You are not crazy, an alarmist, downright negative and pessimistic.
I believe God allows false prophets to be around to test us. To make the believers stronger and wiser.
I fell into their deceptions long ago and was very intrigued by their movements. However, God never gave up on me and took me out. It was painful and had hard times during that process. I fell into sin and was rebellious but God was patient and still is patient with me
I would like to encourage you not to lose heart because of the false prophets or brethren or teachers or whatever else is false. Look to the Light Jesus Christ and keep walking in His sight.


God bless you

C
CofG Dec 28, 2023


thanks Robert.


One question that I was trying to get an answer to in this post is "how do people get deceived in the last days" ?
I'm not talking about the world but in the body? There is always deception in the church. The question I have is that the NT prophesies of the end times indicate a dramatic risk of deception for the church? What is the cause? What is the spiritual condition of born again that would put the Spirit led body of Christ at risk of deception ? How did the churches in Revelation get in to such a dangerous place that they were unaware of their condition and danger ?

M
murrcolr Dec 28, 2023

Quote: I believe God allows false prophets to be around to test us.

Amen

For the Lord your God is testing you to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. Jeremiah 5:31

Another interesting scripture is this (They = False Prophets)

They say continually to those who despise the word of the Lord, 'It shall be well with you'; and to everyone who stubbornly follows his own heart, they say, 'No disaster shall come upon you.'

1. Despising the Word of the Lord.
2. Stubbornly following your own heart.

I have been at a few prophetic meetings to observe; shockingly, they don't even open the bible.

J
JFW Dec 28, 2023

One question that I was trying to get an answer to in this post is "how do people get deceived in the last days" ?

There would obviously be multiple answers to this tho being somewhat familiar with your practice of faith/perspective, (this has been a great concern personally as well) you seem to be after fat that has been rendered …

From my prayerful inquiry, it is indeed multifaceted, tho it really comes down to one word …. love -

12 And because iniquity shall abound, the (((love of many)))) shall wax cold.

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the (((love of the truth,))) that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; ((((but the greatest of these is charity.))))


From my studies of scripture , this too has multiple points of entry-
I’ll briefly submit my findings here so you can test them and see if there is any profitability in them for you 😇

1) We aren’t truly thankful to God (by and large) and as such our dependence is more on what we can do rather than what He has done-
2) We don’t ask enough from God (we can do it without Him, ie; goats)
3) We haven’t grasped the importance of reaping a sowing - as such there is a great confusion within the body regarding Gods will.
4) We harbor desires which prevent us from beholding the Lamb of God. These desires keep us self-focused as they seek to be fulfilled.
(14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. - 22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves)
5) We don’t actually fear the Lord. (we are far more likely to fear what people think or what the world says)
6) yeast …. knowledge or doctrine that is leavened. It only takes a tiny portion to spread and puff up the believer which in turn spreads to others- this ultimately tho subtly, incites us to attempt to please God apart from Christ.
7) pride …. the desire to get it right and be right, rather than simply sitting at His feet. Its presence prevents Gods grace from being actualized while being the catalyst for the bad yeast to feed and rise. Without pride the leaven can’t rise,… with humility the same leaven is starved and Gods grace is activated to rise in us, producing fruit by faith in God 🙏🏻


These are some bullet points that may be helpful :)


Also there is a beneficial teaching from Winkey Pratney titled "the anatomy of deception” where this matter is further dissected. On top of that, Milton Green has some amazingly perceptive teachings on a host of subjects pertaining to these subjects-


\t\t

C
CofG Dec 28, 2023

Thanks Fletcher.

My aim in my question was to flesh out what Scripture says causes spiritual blindness, distance from spiritual wisdom and understanding, discernment, and Spirit revelation.

Lack of Brotherly Love is a seed bed for seeking and receiving spiritual revelation and understanding. Paul's letters and prayers for the churches in Ephesians, Colossians and the church at Thessalonica prove that. So lack of brother love for all the saints as referenced in those books will lead to spiritual dullness and even blindness. Same is found in 2 Peter 3:8-12. The opposite of humble spiritual love would be prideful putting of self and selfs' concerns first.

A second cause of blindness and lack of hearing from God can be idols of the heart, the big and central one being "self" love which is manifest in one way through pride. Another one is covetousness, and another sexual immoraliity. This is covered in Exodus 14 and the letters to the churches in Laodicea and Thyatira.

A third one is when we get distracted by the world and our spiritual senses become dulled by the direction we are looking in and focused on. This will lead to walking in the dark because of the sin of failing to do God's will consistently causing us to stumble over blocks of false doctrine.

A fourth one is lack of prayer seeking God's help not be tempted to all of the above and to ask Him to help us stay awake spiritually.

Are there more from Scripture ? I would like to exhaust the list for my own benefit and the people entrusted to my care and protection. I appreciate the books recommendation but before I go out to those, I thought a thorough drawing out of all the things God has said clearly should be the first thing.

When Jesus came the first time, hearts had been hardened and become spiritually dull, blind and deaf. These things happened to them as an example to us so that we would not become like they became. I just think it is a worthwhile effort if you love Christ and His Body to try to keep a keen sense and spiritual eye on the causes of dullness and run or flee as far from these things as you can because the onslaught of evil is going to cause a great apostasy and alertness to the causes of apostasy thus are critical to avoiding the pitfall.

C
CofG Dec 28, 2023

Sorry to load up on Scripture you already know but sometimes it is helpful to bring different Scriptures addressing the same issue to bear so a full picture can be seen. Notice, Paul's desire..... to keep the Bride pure and his concern about how she might become become impure and perhaps unpresentable to Christ:

1 Corinthians 11: 1-4, 12-15.

I wish you would put up with a little foolishness from me. Yes, do put up with me!
For I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy, because I have promised you in marriage to one husband ”‹”” ”‹to present a pure virgin to Christ.

But I fear that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your minds may be seduced from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ. For if a person comes and preaches another Jesus, whom we did not preach, or you receive a different spirit, which you had not received, or a different gospel, which you had not accepted, you put up with it splendidly!

But I will continue to do what I am doing, in order to deny an opportunity to those who want to be regarded as our equals in what they boast about. For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder! For Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no great surprise if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will be according to their works.

C
ccchhhrrriiisss Dec 28, 2023

Hi yuehan,


Here's a list of doctrines, some of which are trending issues amongst evangelicals today.

For each of the listed doctrines - which do you consider essential to the Christian faith? And which do you consider to be non-essential issues over which Christians can disagree and still have fellowship?


Sure. Let's go through your list. I'll try to offer the reasons why I consider these to be essential or not. However, I should preface that even if I deem something to be true, it doesn't mean that I think that it is essential (or vice versa). Obviously, anything that I deem to be a false teaching I would also deem to not be "essential."


1. The deity of Jesus Christ (as opposed to Arianism)
ESSENTIAL.

"In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God" (John 1:1). I should point out that I really don't follow many specific doctrinal names. In fact, I had to refresh my memory by looking up "Arianism" (which I then remembered from past study because of something someone wrote on SermonIndex).


2. The gospel is salvation by faith in God's grace alone (as opposed to salvation by sanctification = salvation by one's own righteous behaviour = salvation by works)

ESSENTIAL.

I would point out that I would not meander into the exhaustive 'Calvinism v. Arminianism' debate as "essential." I've heard many people who argue that it is. It is indisputable that our efforts cannot save us. Thus, it is by grace alone that we are saved -- and that is through FAITH in Christ Jesus.

I don't know any non-Calvinists who believe that they are saved by works or that their salvation is contingent on works either (but, rather, their salvation is demonstrated through works or is otherwise "dead"). I know that most non-Calvinists believe that it is possible to "lose," "give up" or "depart from" faith -- often out of love for this present world -- with an accompanying argument that eternal salvation is based upon faith that is eternal (i.e., unending).

I also don't know any Calvinists who believe that their salvation isn't accompanied by works either. However, I do know some hardcore Calvinists who believe that their status as "chosen" makes either "faith" or "works" inconsequential because of their embrace of "predeterminism" -- a more all-encompassing view of the Calvinist definition of "predestination."

Personally, I find it is easy to ignore the debate and get to the crux of the Gospel -- that eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord is a free gift. We cannot earn it. We cannot work our way to it (or even to maintain it). We cannot "obtain" it by adhering to the Old Covenant's Law of Moses. It is a free gift.

Thus, the essential part of this message is that we are saved by GRACE through FAITH and this resultant salvation is a FREE GIFT. This truth is essential.


3. Baptism is only for those who have received the gospel (as opposed to those who practise infant baptism)

ESSENTIAL.

I find nothing else in the Word of God. Baptism is clearly a declaration of a decision to follow Christ forever (i.e., baptized into death [Romans 6:4, Colossians 2:12, etc.]) by those who have faith in Christ. Since infants do not make decisions, they cannot make such a declaration.


4. Marriage is between a man and a woman (as opposed to LGBT unions and LGBT sexual activity being acceptable to God)

ESSENTIAL.

The Word of God is clear that marriage is a union between one man and one woman (e.g., Genesis 2:24, Matthew 19:4-5, Mark 10:7, Ephesians 5:31, etc.).

Any union or sexual activity apart from this is sexual immorality.


5. LGBT identities are unbiblical and should not be embraced (as opposed to "LGBT identities are an intrinsic and inextricable part of one's identity" or "a person's gender identity and sexual orientation are on a spectrum")

6. God has provided 100% healing from porn addiction and LGBT desires for Christians in the gospel (as opposed to "no healing has been promised in this life; almost no one gets healed")


ESSENTIAL.

Again, this falls under the issue of sexual immorality. This is included under the issue that the apostles mentioned in that first epistle to the Gentiles following their council in Jerusalem with Paul and Barnabas (Acts 15:22-29).

Moreover, if anyone is in Christ, they are a "new creation" (2 Corinthians 5:17, Galatians 6:15) -- corresponding to the concept of being "buried" with Christ via baptism in the same way that the world was destroyed by a flood and immerged new (1 Peter 3:20-22).


7. There is a future resurrection of the dead (as opposed to "the resurrection is already past")

ESSENTIAL.

Consider 2 Timothy 2:14-19:

.......
.......

14 Remind them of these things, and charge them before God not to quarrel about words, which does no good, but only ruins the hearers.

15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth. 16 But avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness, 17 and their talk will spread like gangrene.

Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, 18 who have swerved from the truth, saying that THE RESURRECTION HAS ALERADY HAPPENED. They are upsetting the faith of some. 19 But God's firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: "The Lord knows those who are his,” and, "Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.”

.......
.......

That's very specific...and very clear.


8. Hell is eternal for those who reject the atonement of Christ (as opposed to annihilationism or universalism)

ESSENTIAL...and, specifically, non-essential.

The truth of eternal punishment is very clear in Scripture. However, the nomenclature for it -- and how it will happen -- is not quite so focused and detailed. There are legitimate questions about words like "Hell," "Hades," the "Lake of Fire," etc. -- particularly as to which is which.

I certainly believe that eternal, fiery punishment for those without faith in Christ is an ESSENTIAL doctrine of the New Testament.

I also don't think that churches should be presenting their questions about the aforementioned nomenclature -- or the specific timeline as to how this will transpire -- to unbelievers. To be clear with what is essential: There is NO HOPE APART FROM CHRIST JESUS for unbelievers. Without faith in Christ Jesus, the outcome is clearly eternal damnation.


[Note that #2 and #6 directly pertain to the gospel and are addressed in Romans, while #7 and #8 are eschatological issues]

Interestingly, I believe that they are all "GOSPEL" issues -- including #7 and #8. The "good news" or "good tidings" is that we will be a part of #7 and avoid #8 by the free gift of salvation that comes through faith in Christ Jesus our Lord.

So, the issues that are "essential" include indisputable truths from God's Word. Now, people can -- and often do -- dispute these things. However, these matters (and others) are exceedingly clear from Scripture.

As I pointed out earlier, there are people who declare issues like "Calvinism" as "essential." I strongly disagree with this notion. I believe that there will be people from every language, tribe and tongue in God's kingdom who have never heard the name "John Calvin," "Jacobus Arminius" or any of the various divisive "points" that they tried to make. They simply and purely believed in Jesus Christ and faithfully followed him with all of their heart.

I think that the same is true of many (if not most) of the very specific eschatological issues that are so often debated. A person can joyfully believe that Jesus is returning without knowing every exact manner for how this will happen or in which specific temporal order.

I hope that this clarifies what I meant by "essential." Simply put: I believe that what is "essential" are those things that are truly "essential" to know for salvation. This doesn't mean that anyone should ignore learning and maturing to the point that they can rightly divide the Word of truth. It's just that I don't believe that salvation is contingent on what someone else deems to be the correct viewpoint. Nor do I believe that full fellowship -- including within local congregations of believers -- should be withheld from someone simply because they don't agree on some matter that isn't entirely clear from Scripture.

J
JFW Dec 28, 2023

"My aim in my question was to flesh out what Scripture says causes spiritual blindness, distance from spiritual wisdom and understanding, discernment, and Spirit revelation”

well allot of it is reaping and sowing ….
God will forgive us for planting stupid seeds but He will now spare us the harvest of stupid fruit 🤷🏽”â™‚️
Mostly we don’t own the responsibility for the authority we’ve been given and as such are blind, confused and generally ignorant regarding such things -

Y
yuehan Jan 8, 2024

Hey ccchhhrrriiisss,

It's taken me a while to get back to you this time. Apologies for the delay, I had to prioritize Christmas and New Year festivities :P


1. Your post prompted me to think more deeply as to what "gospel issues" are. You certainly used a much broader definition for "gospel issues" than is commonly employed amongst evangelical communities (usually linked to 1 Corinthians 15).

It is not apparent to me there is any clear consensus amongst evangelicals as to what constitutes "essential issues"/"gospel issues" either.

Even theological topics commonly assumed to be inessential are still tied to the gospel in some way. Examples: (i) whether babies should be baptized is definitely a gospel issue; (ii) creationism v.s. theistic macroevolution is also inextricably tied to the gospel (c.f. Romans 5:12-21; macroevolution posits that death did not enter through the fall of Adam, which has implications for how one understands Romans). To what extent should Christians be allowed to "agree to disagree" on these topics?


2. My view is that the distinction between "essential issues" and "non-essential issues" is not something found in Scripture. Instead, the Lord Jesus promises to guide us into *all* truth through the Holy Spirit (John 16:13); that we should take careful heed to our doctrine and continue in the truth (1 Timothy 4:16); and that a little leaven leavens the whole lump (Galatians 5:9).

All true doctrine is ultimately connected to the gospel in some way (although I agree that some doctrines have a greater impact on the integrity of the gospel than others).


Y
yuehan Jan 8, 2024

3. We should be charitable to those who do not yet see as they ought to (all of us have been in this stage, after all). Every believer should be given time and space to grow in their understanding of the truth (2 Peter 1:5-7), and John 7:17 promises that anyone who genuinely wants the truth *will* grow in this area.

Believers should be allowed to teach only after they are sufficiently mature in doctrinal understanding (no correlation with theological degrees, in my experience).

Nonetheless, church leaders have a responsibility to "hold the fort" concerning what constitutes true doctrine, as well as to exhort everyone to receive the truth from God (John 7:17). Unfortunately, that is not always done - it's always easier to impose an artificial form of harmony than have genuine unity in the truth (1 Cor 1:10, Eph 4:13).


4. In our day, many have attempted to massively expand the scope of what constitutes "non-essential issues" (e.g. competing definitions of marriage, final salvation by works, biblical inerrancy, whether there is experiential freedom from the power of sin, etc.).

Boundaries are being redrawn by men. But if evangelicals are allowed to "agree to disagree" on so many issues, what exactly does today's evangelicalism stand for?

I have been a Christian long enough to remember a time when evangelicalism was different. I don't really recognize much of today's evangelical scene. That's why I'm extremely wary about the fuzzy demarcation between "essential" and "non-essential" issues. That fuzziness has been thoroughly abused.

You might want to check out this article by Michael Horton, which also suggests a rethink of that demarcation: https://corechristianity.com/resources/articles/why-we-need-to-rethink-in-essentials-unity-in-nonessentials-liberty


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