Luke 5:16 - So He Himself often withdrew into the wilderness and prayed.

Luke 15 However, the report went around concerning Him all the more; and great multitudes came together to hear, and to be healed by Him of their infirmities. 16 So He Himself often withdrew into the wilderness and prayed.

So many things can become hindrances or blockages to pressing on towards the mark and keeping our eye on the goal, blatant sins are just obviously destructive without question.

Even ministry and good works if focused upon and overemphasised can become a hindrance and a crutch that we use to hold ourselves up, because of the special ministry anointing that comes upon us for service.

Focusing so much on what the church is doing wrong and trying to be doctrinally The Watchdog and doctrinally perfect and constantly recognizing the sin and the incorrect doctrine within the body of Christ or within the world is also a serious hindrance as well and this is often overlooked by many in the religious community.

This can actually become an addiction and a practice that we fall into and become so accustomed to that it becomes the main focal point of our religious experience, and because it's not combined with the spirit of prayer and supplication deep intercession for the perceived issues, we become seriously unbalanced and our focus becomes earthly and temporal.

So instead of our focus being on Christ him being our sanctification and righteousness and the divine nature through whom we have been imputed and imparted and continue to receive this spiritual blessing, looking unto the prize of Christ likeness and oneness with Christ, our focus is always the majority of the time upon the sins of the world and the sins of the church and we stagnate our own growth we don't enter into seasons of separation,seasons of fasting and prayer that are gracefully ordained and given to us during our Christian walk.

Matthew 7. 1"Judge not, that you be not judged. 2. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. 3 And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye?

4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye? 5Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

Our minds become filled with doctrine and knowledge and we get puffed up like the apostle Paul said knowledge does puff up but love edifies and builds up.

And unknowingly we choose knowledge, The tree of Knowledge of good and evil over The tree of Life and love, for God is love, and because we know so much of the Bible and doctrines much of it is very correct, but we neglect love and mercy and prayer and good works which are meant to flow from love Mercy and prayer rather than commands and doctrines that we understand in our mind we sell ourselves short from the fullness of God.

1cor 8
1 Now concerning things offered to idols: We know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love edifies. 2 And if anyone thinks that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know. 3 But if anyone loves God, this one is known by Him.

And instead we settle for corporate blessing and anointing through gathering with the Saints a couple of times a week.

And we Neglect true secret prayer where the anointing comes through devotion and brokenness of prayer, where just (I and the Lord) so to speak become acquainted with each other without the help of the corporate gathering anointing.

This is the place where the heart of the lord is, on the mountain top or in the closet in the quiet place, this is the place where the spirit of prayer and supplication the prayers of mercy are birthed and experienced and used by the Lord to intercede for others but also to teach us on a personal level how much God loves people and how much he loves sinners and back sliders and how he wishes that none would perish but that all might come to repentance.

We learn in this place of how to love those that don't love us and to love those that are carnal, this is a humbling experience, and we find this in a place separate from ministry separate from the corporate gathering we find this in a place where the heavens are rent this is the place of secret prayer and the place where the lord calls us to gather with him alone with no aids of the gathering of the two or three .

We can't replace this place or live with imbalance and focus on anything else and neglect this secret place where God's true heart is tasted and consumed, a place where God deflates the puffiness of prideful knowledge and self-righteousness where we learn to identify with the worst of the worst and cry out for Mercy for us all as one.

This is a place of personal awakening of personal revival, a place of personal humbling and humility a place of personal weakness but where we experience the power, the grace and the strength of the holy spirit in our hearts , a place of personal helplessness and recognition of God's Sovereign Grace.

This is a place that the blood has bought for us, a place where we also cry out farther forgive them for they don't know what they're doing.

This is a place where the season of separation will lead you into and a place where the separation will become your sanctification.

Matthew 14:23
And when he had sent the multitudes away, he went up into a mountain apart to pray: and when the evening was come, he was there alone.

Such a timely reminder!

I once remember thinking over my walk with the Lord. The greatest personal moments of my Christian walk didn't come in church meetings or even opportunities to minister. The greatest moments of my life came with being alone with the Lord in prayer.

To this day, I love going on walks and just speaking with the Lord -- silently or aloud. Nothing in this world compares to walking and knowing that the Lord sees and knows me (entirely) and that I am communing with the creator of all things!

I live in the Silicon Valley. It's a congested area that is often fast-paced. Yet, there are plenty of places around where my wife and I go for hikes. In many of those places, we rarely (or sometimes never) see or encounter another person. We can pray aloud and sing hymns without eavesdroppers. Those are moments between the Lord and us. Those are wonderful moments.

Of course, a person doesn't have to leave their home for this. They can simply close their door and have their own "prayer closet" as they kneel by or lay upon their bed. In many old sermons, preachers would speak about having an "open heaven" -- that moment where nothing "hinders" their prayer time.

In truth, all moments of life have this potential. Whether at work, school, driving or at home, a person has the opportunity to commune with the Lord. Yet, there is something powerful about physically removing ourselves from this world -- withdrawing -- to simply be alone with God. During his earthly life, our Lord set this example.

Amen. Thanks for your posts Chris, Always a delight to read your anti-dogmatic posts on sermon index

"Always a delight to read your anti-dogmatic posts on sermon index"

I'll bite.

This is falling right into the hands of the principalities and powers. Being so "anti-dogmatic" that you end up dogmatic in that belief, and exclude anyone who may have dogmatic stances. This is the world system.

The tolerance movement is the same spiritual power. Tolerance to the point that they don't tolerate anyone who may take a stance against anything or anyone, thereby defeating their very own arguments and rendering themselves absurd. Reductio ad absurdum the worlds philosophy calls it, reduced to absurdity.

To take a dogmatic stance against dogmatic stances is this same hypocrisy. Again, I cannot do anything but point you in the direction of freedom Gary, and hope you see it.

Jesus is the most dogmatic person to ever walk the earth, He will stand against anything that disagrees with Him. We should walk even as He walked, taking a dogmatic stance against anything that disagrees with plain scriptural teaching, and standing firm in the truth of the gospel.

The Holy Spirit is first and foremost the Spirit of Truth, and truth by its very nature is dogmatic and intolerant.

(And for everyone else's context this is a carry over discussion from another thread Gary posted the original post in as a response)

Evan, brother please don't take everything so personal, this is not personally directed at you, it's a general context and a personal testimony of my own journey through legalism, and the spiritual dryness that that causes.

Gary,

You are being disingenuous, to state it mildly.

Your original post was a direct response in another thread... Testimony or not.

I didn't expect you to even remotely address what I said, but my conscience would not be clear unless I express my concerns for you dear brother.

I don't take it personally, at least not in the sense you mean. But I did take the obvious bait, knowing the accusation it would level at me, and I accept that.

ESchaible, there are at least three "strange fire" adherents on this forum. They espouse those who operate in another spirit, and will not hear correction. I have seen this over the years. It is fruitless to debate such. I have looked in on the forum during the holidays, and enjoy particularly your and Robert/CoG's posts.

Just like John MacArthur, the strange fire group here on Sermon Index all too often make false statements not only as to what is strange fire, but labeling true
servants of God to be false prophets or teachers on the basis of something they said which was in error, but completely overlook what these men of God have taught over a life time of ministry. We should call out false prophets, but with some it is guilt by association. Like calling someone false because they attended what they consider to be a strange fire conference. If I didn’t know better, some of the more mature brothers on these forums border on being cessationists, even criticizing the very gifts of the Spirit, signs and wonders that confirm the Word. There is definetly a need for balance on these discussions.

Is there "strange fire" in the original post?

ChrisA and others,

Could someone please clarify the definition of "strange fire". In 2 posts I see two almost polar opposite expressions of the same phrase.

One view comes from one perspective and the second is practically Gary's view but using the same vocabulary, with obviously different definitions.

I am well versed in this particular form of deception, I live in the midst of the most nefarious false religion in the United states; Mormons outnumber Christians where I am 10,000/1 easily.

Redefining one person's terminology to fit their agenda while using the same words to deceive is their favorite tool.

I just want to make sure no one is doing that here; I am wholly ignorant of a "strange fire" movement.

Gary,

Another thought I had regarding your constant theme, and constant weaponization of Jesus teaching on hypocrisy is this: Jesus was not condemning judgment, but hypocrisy - FIRST remove the plank from your own eye and then...

Just an observation.

I often don't agree with Gary's view.
But here he posted some good, simple Bible verses.

Some of you are now using this thread for your own personal agenda !
Completely off-topic. Disappointing.

Markus

Hi ESchaible,

(And for everyone else's context this is a carry over discussion from another thread Gary posted the original post in as a response)

I really didn't go through the other thread or discussion to see the points of contention (if any) that you may have with one another.

In addition, I don't know much about this "tolerance movement" that you're referring to. However, I do want to make sure that you don't perceive a recognition of grace -- and different stages of maturity within the Body of Christ -- as being some sort of spiritual vice.

I sometimes think that the most difficult thing for a studious believer to do is to refrain from taking a position. As someone who spent a lot of time in formal academic and research settings, it's contrary to our nature. We want to "know" the "truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth."

I think that this is why so many people are so given to conspiracy theories. It isn't the desire for conspiracy but the desire to know the truth and reject the bad to the point that some perceive themselves apt to "see" something that few others can.

Spiritually-speaking, we love God and feel the grace of our relationship with the Creator of All Things. Yet, this can lead some to trust so much in this relationship that they forget the frailty of humanity on this side of the "glass darkly" (i.e., "poor reflection").

It's interesting that this reference comes from I Corinthians 13 -- a chapter often quoted by people who don't even know the Lord. Even in weddings among unbelievers, they recite parts of this chapter and focus on the "love" part. Yet, when we think of what Paul actually said in I Corinthians 13, he is highlighting our limits in the "now" as opposed to the "then" that we so eagerly await.

.......
.......

For NOW we see in a mirror dimly, but THEN face to face.

NOW I know in part; THEN I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.

I Corinthians 13:12 (ESV)

.......
.......

I hope that no one believes that I espouse an utter lack of dogma or even dogmatism. When it comes to indisputable truth from God's Word, we should obviously adhere to those truths as immovable. This is particularly true for me. I am staunch and immoveable when it comes to something that I believe that the Word of God is entirely clear about. Yet, most debates -- by the nature of there being a lack of agreement -- are based upon things that aren't above dispute.

There was an earlier thread about what is or is not "essential" in the Gospel and which things might result in the breaking of fellowship with others. I have no problem saying what I believe and why I believe it. I also have no problem stating empathically what things I believe to be essential truths. Yet, none of those things can make me think that I am completely perfect (especially when interacting with others).

When it comes to Biblical truth, this can be a difficult thing to remember. I know exactly when and where I came to believe in Jesus. I know when and where I was when I was baptized with the Holy Spirit. I've read through the Word of God (cover to cover) many, many times. I've read the Word of God topically through in-depth study. I've become familiar with both the Hebrew and the Greek. I am also very well-educated (in a secular sense) with a strong grasp of several academic fields and sciences. I am incredibly curious -- a "lifetime learner" with an insatiable appetite for learning.

Yet, despite all of this, I am often reminded of how many of my views have changed over the course of my walk with the Lord. I am keenly aware of my own limits and all of the areas that I feel that I am inadequate or incomplete (as in the "know in part" section of I Corinthians 13:12).

This realization is enough to mute many of the debates that I could otherwise fully engage in. I don't long to be determined "right" by others in arguments or debates over doctrines but "right" in the attitude and love displayed when debating. This is not to say that I don't want to be "right" in dogma. But, as I Corinthians 13 reminds us, if I can "understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing" (I Corinthians 13:2).

We should be dogmatic and intolerant of evil or false doctrines -- that are indisputably false. However, I also realize that the term "dogmatic" has shifted over how it is taken. It now conveys something within it that is strongly opinionated to the point that it is unseemly and even rigidly arrogant.

I'm not saying this is true of anyone else here; however, it has often been true of me. For this reason, I try to make every effort for my love for God and others to be clear. It also reminds me that I don't need to take a position on something that isn't entirely clear or essential if I am not entirely convinced from Scripture regarding it.

Again, I didn't read the discussion in that other thread that you mentioned. I'm not sure what any point of contention might be with or from Gary. However, I do want to clarify my position on my approach to such debates and attempt to not come across as "dogmatic" in the modern connotation of that word while remaining plainly "dogmatic" when it comes to undeniable, essential truths of God's Word.

Eschaible, by "strange fire" in recent times I am referring to counterfeit revivals like the Toronto "Blessing" or the Pensacola "revival," or those who moved a false anointing like Kenneth Hagin, Kenneth Copeland, Rodney Howard-Browne, etc. These are in stark contrast to the genuine gifts of the Spirit which glorify Christ and edify His body (of believers).

Chris, have you ever attended the Brownsville Revival?
On what basis are you referring to it as a counterfeit revival?

[Gary,

Another thought I had regarding your constant theme, and constant weaponization of Jesus teaching on hypocrisy is this: Jesus was not condemning judgment, but hypocrisy - FIRST remove the plank from your own eye and then...

Just an observation.]

Hi Evan,

I'll be very straight with you. This is not an observation, but an(other) ad hominem attack on a brother. Maybe you can check if this statement applies to yourself, too? Gary does not respond to you in this way. Maybe mellowing down your sharp tone and a bit more grace in dealing with brothers here would help to have a more edifiying discourse.

Brothagary, I honestly have always looked forward to your posts. Please no one take this the wrong way, but dear brother you speak on spiritual principles you have learned through your experiences and walk with the Holy Spirit through Christ that honestly, I'm thankful you share. Christ's body is made up of so many parts, and for some of us our part of His body is not as easy to find as other more prominent parts. God's will be done; however, I believe the loneliness is to push us closer to Father through Christ our Savoir and Master. So, we focus on Him soley, then share with our brethren as He leads from what we are given. I found this gem within your post this time. All praise to God!

"We learn in this place of how to love those that don't love us and to love those that are carnal, this is a humbling experience, and we find this in a place separate from ministry separate from the corporate gathering we find this in a place where the heavens are rent this is the place of secret prayer and the place where the lord calls us to gather with him alone with no aids of the gathering of the two or three.

We can't replace this place or live with imbalance and focus on anything else and neglect this secret place where God's true heart is tasted and consumed, a place where God deflates the puffiness of prideful knowledge and self-righteousness where we learn to identify with the worst of the worst and cry out for Mercy for us all as one."

This is a place of personal awakening of personal revival, a place of personal humbling and humility a place of personal weakness but where we experience the power, the grace and the strength of the holy spirit in our hearts, a place of personal helplessness and recognition of God's Sovereign Grace."

Seven months ago, I went through the deepest, most painful spiritual transformation of my spiritual walk so far. Father's discipline? All I had was our God in three, to be honest I didn't know if I was going to survive it. However, with my Bible, and a hymnal in my bed for three days, barley making it home that first day, and getting up only to walk around my area and pray. God protected me, I could barely walk at first, and it was just me and Him that weekend. This was and everything around us is a spiritual battle with spiritual enemies. We do not fight against flesh and blood! It belittles our Lord's death and resurrection to call a people to His Father and is a smack in the face to His commandment to us to love the brethren. Any way this was a blessing to inwardly receive. May God's Holy Spirit keep speaking through you, blessings in our Lord.

Chris said:
"However, I do want to make sure that you don't perceive a recognition of grace -- and different stages of maturity within the Body of Christ -- as being some sort of spiritual vice."

(EDIT: This unintentionally served as a response to Narrowpath as well)

I need to make sure I understand the structure of what you asked.

Do I perceive different levels of spiritual maturity as a spiritual vice? No, I don't.

Do I perceive a recognition of grace as a spiritual vice?

This question doesn't quite make sense to me. But I'll answer the best I can based on what I think your asking.

I assume you are alluding to showing "grace" to those who are different than ourselves. Contextually, those who are on different levels of growth in, and knowledge of the Lord.

In order to answer I would have to accept a view of grace given to us by the world. Grace in God's kingdom is not overlooking anything, but simply and clearly illuminating something that needs changed, and giving the illuminated one the means for it to be changed. People often use the verse regarding God overlooking sin in times past, but He has sent His Son to die for sin, rise from the dead and the Holy Spirit has been on the earth ever since Jesus ascension. The grace of God changes things, and overlooks nothing.

This is why Paul said he preached Christ. We, as the light of the world, illuminate darkness, and offer men the means of change, Jesus Himself. John Wesley was known to say he offered men Christ. This is grace, speaking the truth in love, and offering the only means of change, Jesus Himself.

I can't accept the worlds grace.

If you meant can I simply overlook, in this case, spiritually destructive teaching?

Not in good conscience, no.

Spiritual maturity and destructive teaching are fundamentally linked. Someone may sound incredibly spiritual and say correct things, and yet err on points that undermine everything. In this case, the context of the error is the nature of the first sin of humanity, and what the fall did to us.

The forbidden tree was not the tree of knowledge. It is a tendency in charismatic circles to say this, and use this line of reasoning to dissuade people from what they say is "the death of the letter", ie. Doctrine.

The forbidden tree was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

It gave us the ability to justify ourselves and debate moral dilemmas; it is the reason Jesus had so many encounters with people like the rich young ruler. It is the reason religion exists; ethical humanism; and the reason so many people can wriggle out of simple obedience to Jesus by asking "has God really said..." It gives humanity an out, a broad road of interpretation and self justification.

Sadly, most people still eat from this tree and call it christianity. Following Jesus is boiled down to list of 'thou shalt nots', and spiritualization of His more demanding claims. The forbidden tree makes self denial a matter of spiritual interpretation, rather than practical experience. Jesus can demand someone to sell all he has and follow Him; and our self justifying and proper religion will comfort a man in his opulence and ask "Did Jesus REALLY mean that though?" And, willing to justify himself, mankind ends up walking away sorrowful.

The forbidden tree is not knowledge. We are to grow in grace and the knowledge of our Lord Jesus. We realize our true freedom by the knowledge of all that Jesus is to us, and has done for us on the cross and through His resurrection.

The forbidden tree gave us the knowledge of good and evil, and made us all little self sufficient and self justifying, hypocritical judges.

This is why the call of Jesus is so revolutionary and all consuming, and bids a man follow Him and die, and walk in newness of resurrection life.

The tree of life is Jesus - and when one follows Jesus he doesn't need that other tree. The minute by minute leading of Jesus within, in all things great and small, replaces the knowledge of good and evil and makes the issue for the true Christian one of light and darkness, life and death, Jesus or Satan, the kingdom of God or the kingdom of this present world.

It's a better righteousness, the righteousness of God in Christ. It's a different kingdom, diametrically opposed this this present world. It is light, authenticity, reality, truth, love, holiness, in a word - Jesus Himself.

Other Chris (ChrisA) said:
"Eschaible, by "strange fire" in recent times I am referring to counterfeit revivals like the Toronto "Blessing" or the Pensacola "revival," or those who moved a false anointing like Kenneth Hagin, Kenneth Copeland, Rodney Howard-Browne, etc. These are in stark contrast to the genuine gifts of the Spirit which glorify Christ and edify His body (of believers)"

Got it.

Regarding a response you received concerning "attending" a revival - this is the fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of revival, and the reason I think if we see a move of God in our day, it wont be in this way. It will be normal everyday people walking in the Spirit in their normal everyday lives. It won't be something that our religious age can attribute to any preacher or "revivalist", and won't be something you can "attend".

The day revival was diluted to mean a meeting you can schedule, attend, and can be attributed to a preacher, was the day God decided He wouldn't send us one. Rather God will move in our day, the last days, in mighty power - and those looking for the latest and greatest new hyped up and huge movement will be left to run to and fro from one false prophet to the next; while to true bride is made spotless and will walk in powerful hiddenness with their God, reproducing according to their kind, true disciples of Jesus, seeking the honor that comes from God only, and consciously decrying those things that even remotely resemble flesh and soulish hype.

Those things that are are estimable and honorable to men are an abomination to God. So you can be sure if men seek after it en masse, God won't be in it.

Crowds serve as a warning sign in these last days - so be sure if it draws a crowd, Jesus retreats to sit and commune with His disciples.

Billy I appreciate your posts as well and I remember You from a couple of years ago ,it was when you're doing regular posts.

Keep up the good work I noticed you had a blog and a Facebook page where you promote devotionals.

May god strengthen you and us all, and may he use our lives to get some Glory for himself, 🙏

Brother all those trials that you and we all go through are never wasted hes refining us so that we can shine bright through his grace in the days ahead 🙏✝️

Blessings to you, and everyone here who loves our lord Jesus Christ with sincerity. Amen

Hi ESchaible,

Chris said:
"However, I do want to make sure that you don't perceive a recognition of grace -- and different stages of maturity within the Body of Christ -- as being some sort of spiritual vice."

(EDIT: This unintentionally served as a response to Narrowpath as well)

I need to make sure I understand the structure of what you asked.

Do I perceive different levels of spiritual maturity as a spiritual vice? No, I don't.

Do I perceive a recognition of grace as a spiritual vice?

This question doesn't quite make sense to me. But I'll answer the best I can based on what I think your asking.

I assume you are alluding to showing "grace" to those who are different than ourselves. Contextually, those who are on different levels of growth in, and knowledge of the Lord.

In order to answer I would have to accept a view of grace given to us by the world. Grace in God's kingdom is not overlooking anything, but simply and clearly illuminating something that needs changed, and giving the illuminated one the means for it to be changed. People often use the verse regarding God overlooking sin in times past, but He has sent His Son to die for sin, rise from the dead and the Holy Spirit has been on the earth ever since Jesus ascension. The grace of God changes things, and overlooks nothing.

This is why Paul said he preached Christ. We, as the light of the world, illuminate darkness, and offer men the means of change, Jesus Himself. John Wesley was known to say he offered men Christ. This is grace, speaking the truth in love, and offering the only means of change, Jesus Himself.

I can't accept the worlds grace.

I think that you read a bit too much into a simple statement that I wrote.

I did not use the word "grace" with any motive of defining (or redefining) how or when we should stand for truth. I certainly didn't use this as a suggestion that you (or anyone else) should "simply overlook, in this case, spiritually destructive teaching" either.

Rather, I used the word "grace" to indicate how -- even when we're right (or when we THINK that we're right) -- we can show kindness, gentleness, good-will and love within our conversations. Consider what Paul wrote to the Colossians:

.......
.......

5 Be wise in the way you act toward outsiders; make the most of every opportunity. 6 Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.

Colossians 4:5-6 (ESV)

.......
.......

This context was in regard to outsiders; yet, the basis is still the same. The grace that I'm referring to is simply like this. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Obviously, we should uphold the truth. However, that is where the context of I Corinthians 13 is so vitally important. It wouldn't matter if I was right about everything; because, without love, "I am nothing" (I Corinthians 13:2).

As I stated previously, I didn't read through the other thread you mentioned; thus, I didn't see your conversation with Gary. To be clear: I think that it is a VERY good thing that you're seeking to adhere only to what is right (doctrinally) and dismiss all else.

I think that this is probably true of most of us who venture onto a website like "SermonIndex." I suspect that most of those who join this website community do so because they love the Lord and seek to grow in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Why? It is because we belong to a different kingdom and seek the King of that Kingdom.

Unfortunately, we haven't arrived to that point of absolute perfection yet. We are all walking through the wilderness of this world -- on this side of that "glass darkly" where we don't yet "know fully" every truth that we desperately want to embrace in our earthly walk.

So, until the "perfect comes" and we see "face to face," we continue to seek the Lord in the confines of our lives in this world. And, until then, there will continue to be disputes, debates and "heated" discussions over doctrinal matters. With this in mind, I do think that there is a type of "grace" (e.g., kindness, good-will, love, etc.) that we can show one another despite some differences of opinion regarding doctrinal discussions.

Obviously, there are "spiritually destructive teachings" that can and should be pointed out. Unfortunately, there are also very often some teachings that some opine to be "spiritually destructive" while others do not (or, at least, do not yet) see them that way. I think that there is a way to interact with one another that is motivated by love and seeing the other person grow in Christ Jesus.

With all of that said: My post was really just a response to Brothagary's initial post. I didn't see anything contemptuous or worth debating within it. It seemed to be a call to remember the Lord's example of withdrawing into the wilderness and praying. I've personally found that this is the greatest thing in this world. Even when in the midst of potential debates and discussions over issues on SermonIndex, I've often found that simply withdrawing into prayer causes me to be less inclined to return to a fervent debate (even when I think that I have something to contribute).