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True and False Revival

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AbideinHim Jan 9, 2024

Please go to the 17:55 point of "The Line of Fire”, where Michael Brown begins discussing and answering questions concerning revival. Some of this discussion is concerning true and false revival, prayer and revival, repentance and revival. This is very good information for those of us that have benefited from the teachings and discussions on Sermon Index.

"Please define to us the SermonIndex motto statement?
Answer. This phrase 'Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival' was adopted early on as a motto statement. Any proper desire for revival points back to the very person of Jesus Christ. The experience of Biblical revival leads to true worship of Jesus Christ and nothing subsequently. Revival also will always be verifiable Biblically and even historically.”


https://www.youtube.com/live/ZHh84MYGKRI?si=YZ4oQcHSSu3-h5-Q

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CofG Jan 9, 2024

Thanks Mike,

As far as the Sermon Index motto, I was still left with a lack of understanding of what "genuine" or true revival is. I see in the motto that one test is true worship of Jesus. So, I went to Brother Greg's belief statement for the site and found this which helps with what is "genuine". In short, does the work further holiness, purity and power with God which, as your post points out, is only verifiable retrospectively. So we may call something a "move of God" or a "revival" but only so much as the fruit of it is holiness and purity in the power of God which is the "genuine" and everything else would then be false. Here is the SI foundational statement. I didn't cut and paste. It's exactly as set forth in the same order.


"The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their own means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?" -Jeremiah 5:31

The work and ministry of sermonindex can be encapusalted in this one word: REVIVAL. sermonindex is not a organisation, buiness, or any attempt by man to build something for God. It is rather a expression of a heart burden to see the Church revived and brought back to holiness, purity, and power with God.


Additionally, as to genuine worship of Jesus, here are a couple of verses that God has said is false worship and then what is true worship:

He answered them, "Isaiah prophesied correctly about you hypocrites, as it is written:

This people honors me with their lips,
but their heart is far from me.
They worship me in vain,
teaching as doctrines human commands. -- Mark 7:6-7 (CSB)

AND

Therefore, brothers and sisters, in view of the mercies of God, I urge you to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God; this is your true worship.
Do not be conformed to this age, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may discern what is the good, pleasing, and perfect will of God. -- Romans 12:1-2 (CSB)

Finally, this is the worship that we were made priests to God to offer:

As you come to him, a living stone ”‹”” ”‹rejected by people but chosen and honored by God ”‹”” ”‹ you yourselves, as living stones, a spiritual house, are being built to be a holy priesthood to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ -- 1 Peter 2:4-5 (CSB)

It is a worthwhile study, if anyone hasn't already done it from Scriptures, to investigate spiritual and acceptable and pleasing sacrifices to God. Sample Scriptures are Psalm 51, Hebrews 13, 2 Corinthians 2, Romans 12:1-2, Philippians 4:18. There are others. These kinds of Christ honoring worship are the true test of revival it would seem by SI belief statement.

Again, not my definitions, speculation, opinion or guess of pleasing worship to Jesus and the Father through the power of the Spirit

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CofG Jan 9, 2024

Btw Mike.

I don’t know anything about any of the past revivals. Don’t have an opinion on any of them except Lakeland because my teenage kids wanted to go due to the miracle hype (we lived in Florida) and I wouldn’t let them go after watching Todd Bentley preach a few times.

All for revival if I can understand definitions (it is a real word) and understand what Scripture says.

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AbideinHim Jan 9, 2024

Brother Robert,

I am interested in having a good conversation along the lines that you mentioned, because a true revival that is brought about by prayer will bring true repentance that will result in holiness of life. Michael Brown would agree with you and the scriptures that you mentioned and so would I.

Sermon Index has all of these wonderful teachings by Ravenhill and others to bring us back to our first love, the Word of God, the leading of the HolySpirit, true sanctification and holiness, and true revival.

Much of the teaching in the church today is more about us receiving the blessings of God, than seeking the Kingdom of God. That is why that I have pursued the Lord through prayer, the Word, good books that feed the spirit, and teach true discipleship.

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CofG Jan 9, 2024

Great Mike.

Do you see from the Jeremiah passage that Greg quoted on false prophets and the Mark passage on false doctrine being taught as worship of Jesus the critical and sheep caring need to point out and warn of the false as well as to define and discern the "genuine” and true ……. "before”………..affirming, recommending or promoting some work ?

That’s why I struggle mightily with someone watching a YouTube video clip or even a few clips and then calling and recommending to vulnerable sheep that something is a genuine move of God or, likewise, a false one.

True worship and true revival are a matter of the integrity of the hearts of the speakers and the worshippers and outward appearances are never the measure of the inward heart in the short term.

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AbideinHim Jan 9, 2024

Robert, I must have missed something. I didn’t see what Greg quoted on the Jeremiah passage and the Mark passage that you referred to ,so please refresh me on that.

I never make a judgment on anything by 1, 2 or even three YouTube videos or what several people have had to say about anything that pertains to revival, true prophets, false prophets, etc. etc..
This is how people are being deceived, when they don’t see the whole picture and they are just making a judgment from video clips of this or that, from the opinions of others not based on scripture or experience. You can learn a lot about true and false revivals from studying past revivals.

We will certainly be deceived if we judge by outward appearances, which is unrighteous judgment. God looks at the heart and judges with righteous judgment. We can judge the fruit, and the words of men for "out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks.”

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CofG Jan 9, 2024

This is from SI beliefs on revival

"The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their own means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?" -Jeremiah 5:31

The work and ministry of sermonindex can be encapusalted in this one word: REVIVAL. sermonindex is not a organisation, buiness, or any attempt by man to build something for God. It is rather a expression of a heart burden to see the Church revived and brought back to holiness, purity, and power with God.

The Mark passage was my insertion into my post. You can look at that below on prior post.

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CofG Jan 9, 2024

The passage about out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks applies to bad things. The Scripture says that words are insufficient to reveal the heart. That's the Mark 7 passage I inserted. It says they honor me with their lips but their heart is far from me. Likewise, the hypocrite is always the one who speaks truth but the reality is not in them. That is why accurate teaching and preaching and talking about Jesus is not a sufficient sign of the unction and power of the Spirit.

And I wasn't talking about you and the YouTube videos. Sorry about not making that clear.

Finally, the point I was making that Greg makes in the SI beliefs and that Jesus makes in Mark 7 is that false prophets/prophesy and false teaching have to be evaluated in the assessment of whether something is a move of God or a genuine worship movement ( in the broader Biblical meaning and sense) of Jesus honoring revival. If the hearts of the teachers/people are far from God it is likely that the Holy Spirit is far away from them in manifestation as well no matter what may be physically manifest whether in vain words, vain tears, vain emotions or vain counterfeit signs and wonders.

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CofG Jan 9, 2024

double post. sorry.

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AbideinHim Jan 9, 2024

I hope that Greg reads this so that he can give you an answer himself, but I don’t believe that Greg was saying that he would approve of false prophets and teachers in what is considered to be a true revival. God works through clean, holy vessels. God’s Will and agenda can not come to pass through a false prophet or teacher.

The scripture that I quoted out the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks, that’s not only bad things that’s also good things. what’s in your heart in abundance will come out of your mouth. You might fake it for awhile but eventually it will come out of your mouth.. where does the word of God say that words are insufficient to reveal the heart?

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CofG Jan 9, 2024

I’m not saying words don’t count but they are a poor short term indicator of whether something is real or not.

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CofG Jan 9, 2024

Sorry. I’m also not saying Greg is advocating a false prophesy revival.

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brothagary Jan 10, 2024

I don't think there's anything new Under the Sun I think clearly we see the same patterns reoccurring today and throughout the church history starting on the day of Pentecost so to speak with the beginning of the church.

I'm not a big fan of using the term false revival or false outpouring of the spirit because we clearly have nothing in the new testament showing us what one looks like so we all come up with different ideas and assumptions based upon our theology or our interpretation or guesswork on what a false outpouring may look like and then we apply that preconceived idea to things we see today this is not biblical hermeneutics, nor would we say that this is even biblical theology but more based upon plan private interpretation.

False Christianity is probably a better expression for what we can see demonstrated in the Bible and what is mentioned in early church father's writings about what the false prophets were what the false teachers were and what did they teach these are the same things that still happen today.

I've mentioned this before but I'll mention it again it's the Judaizers that were the false religion in the first century and that penetrated into the church and probably become a part of orthodox Christianity even this becomes dead orthodoxy where you have all the technical doctrines of Christ correct but you've added to it Old testament law and tradition this is what the Pharisees did this is what the Judaizers did this is what the early church did under the papacy and even under the early orthodox. This type of religion results in the end the great apostasy mentioned by the Apostles and created a dead formal religion that was devoid of outpouring of the holy spirit they quenched the miraculous and come against the true Saints and children of God and persecuted them this is still what goes on today one way or another within christendom.

So within the Christian religion as a whole today any denominational form of Christianity that doesn't have out pourings of the spirit happening and are very formal and dry are probably one of the closest things to the first century false teachings that the apostle Paul mentioned and taught against.

Outpourings of the holy spirit and revival are the sign of life within true Christianity.


Biblically speaking and historically speaking we have gnosticism this was false Christianity that Rose up as a form or an alternative to the original biblical New Testament Christianity and even an alternative, separate from dead orthodoxy.

This became a powerful force but was greatly challenged
and even persecuted by the orthodox and the Catholic church these were mentioned historically as the false prophets and false apostles, marcion, Simon magus and many others were part of these false gnostic version of Christianity we don't have a demonstration on what a false outpouring of the spirit looked like in the scripture or even is there was such thing, and I've not aware of any of the church fathers mentioning it but these were enough between the two to get an idea on the spirits that were operating, the seducing spirits and the doctrines of demons that Paul prophesied would come into the church and John talked about the spirit of Antichrist these were all fulfillments of those spirits and those movements.

And these spirits operate today the fruit is the same the teachings are the same and that is how we know what we're dealing with because the Bible and the early church fathers show us what the false Christianity is .

When we add to this by our own assumptions and we start to put born again christians and baptised in the spirit Pentecostals charismatics into the same false teaching category because we don't agree with their teachings or their worship methods we are in serious error ourselves because we're not using the Bible nor the history of the early church fathers as the gauge and the blueprint to apply today.

Going Beyond what the scripture gives us we set ourselves up as little popes and then we create a doctrine that's not taught within scripture and then we wheel that doctrine around as if it's the infallible word of God and all it is is an interpretation based upon eschatology and then miss applying a lot of the apostles teaching because they had direct relevance to the false teachers and the false prophets of the first second third fourth century and beyond they were specific and should remain that way.


I actually think it's a mistake to say that within true revival that it's always going to produce some holiness on mass, because clearly we see within the 40 years of the first revivals starting on the day of Pentecost we see some of the greatest heresies creep into the church and false Christianity due to the groups that I've just mentioned become a popular form of false Christianity and this is all a result of the greatest revival in the first century.

And not only that when we take all the letters and the epistles of the apostles into account we see there were serious sin within the church that they were dealing with so the revivals didn't produce clean churches the churches had big problems the churches under James and Peter were seriously plagued with legalism and Judaizers, Paul had to rebuke Peter for teaching false teachings and he said that many of them got caught up in the same hypocrisy.

And it's clear in Paul's churches that they were not free from sin there was many problems with carnal sinful Christians who were true believers whom Paul treated like true believers he never called them heretics though he may excommunicated some he even allowed some to come back because of his heart and mercy he had for Christians.

Jonathan Edwards lamented the state of the church during the first great awakening and how bad it had backslidden but that he hoped that there would be another outpouring coming and as a prophetic man here foresaw the second outpouring of the spirit that would come.

Revival is Messy And every single one has been.

The great sin of the church has always been to reject revival in favor of tradition and dry religion, and this is done to degrees, some are very extreme in rejecting revival others reject in their heart, and therefore they don't become a part of what the spirit's doing on the earth, and are somehow content with functioning within a ministry or within a church that is not experiencing the Glory of God, but preferred to function from an old dried up wine skin with old wine of the last season or the seasons beforehand.

That itself is also not a good place to be in, this is a place where the true spirit of prayer and supplication the true spirit of travail is non-existent and people rely on a very faint anointing that's based upon God's grace and mercy to continue to save people out of his kindness not out of his preference.

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brothagary Jan 10, 2024

I am not disagreeing with Mike or Micheal Brown, I'm coming to the same conclusion give or take, from maybe a different angle

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billy1980 Jan 10, 2024

Gary thank you for posting! I like to listen in and as the Holy Spirit will add to me partake:) When we stop being able to learn from the brethren, I fear we have started back tracking, or going on to the road of pride! Which we do not want any part of! It's full of discipline and a hurt bottom!

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brothagary Jan 10, 2024

Amen Billy , I avoid posting most of the time if I can ,I'll read and glean and just enjoy reading posts and comments.

I know personally that discipline and pain you speak of.

It can hurt a lot 😌

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deltadom Jan 10, 2024

I wish I could see a true revival as I have seen so many false revivals , I had to leave my church and school when I was younger due to the Toronto blessing as it was crazy

The closest I have got was the sermonindex conference in Scotland

Will I ever see a true revival in my lifetime

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InTheLight Jan 11, 2024

Amen Dom, I think that we will see it. I have done some study on past revivals and found two main things were present, a return to pure doctrine and a return to right relationship with the Holy Spirit.

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