BSBKJVWEBYLTASVBBEWMBT4TDBY|HymnsMusicDonate
Menu
Articles

The Making of a Prophet

M
murrcolr Jan 13, 2024

Prophetic ministry is something which has not come in with time, but is eternal. It has come out of the eternal counsels.

Perhaps you wonder what that means. Well, we remember that, without any explanation or definition, something comes in right at the beginning and takes the place of government in the economy of God, and involves this very function. When Adam sinned and was expelled from the garden, the Word simply says, God "placed at the east of the garden of Eden the Cherubim... to keep the way of the tree of life" (Genesis 3:24).

Who or what are the Cherubim? Where do they come from? We have heard nothing about them before; no explanation of them is given. It simply is a statement. God put them there to guard the way of the tree of life. They have become the custodians of life, to hold things according to God's thought. For the thoughts of man's heart have departed from God's thoughts and have become evil; everything has been marred; and now the custodians of the Divine thought about the greatest of all things for man - Divine life, uncreated life - the custodians of that, the Cherubim, are placed there.

But later we are given to understand what the Cherubim are like: this symbolic, composite representation has a four-fold aspect - the lion, the ox, the man and the eagle; and we are given to understand very clearly that the predominant feature is the man. It is a man, really, with three other aspects, those of the lion, the ox, and the eagle. The lion is a symbol of kingship or dominion; the ox, of service and sacrifice; the eagle, of heavenly glory and mystery. The man, the predominant aspect of the Cherubim - what is that?

We know that throughout the Scriptures the man takes the place, in the Divine order of things, of the prophet, the representative of God. The representation of God's thoughts is a man. That was the intention in the creation of Adam in the image and likeness of God - to be the personal embodiment and expression of all God's thoughts. That is what man was created for. That is what we find in the Man, the Man who was God manifested in the flesh. He was the perfect expression of all God's thoughts.

Where has this symbolism of the Cherubim come from? It is simply brought in. It comes out from eternity. It is a Divine, an eternal thought, and it takes charge of things, to hold things for God. So that man - and we know that phrase "the Son of man" - is peculiarly related to the prophetic office, and the prophetic function is an eternal thing, which just comes in. It is, in its very nature, the representation of Divine thoughts, and it is to hold God's thoughts in purity and in fullness. That is the idea related to the man, to the prophet, and that is the prophetic function and nature.

THE IDENTITY OF THE PROPHET WITH HIS MESSAGE

But what does that carry with it? Here we come to the most important point of the whole. It is the absolute identity of the vessel with the vessel's ministry. Prophetic ministry is not something that you can take up. It is something that you are. No academy can make you a prophet. Samuel instituted the schools of the prophets. They were for two purposes - one, the dissemination of religious knowledge, and the other, the writing up of the chronicles of religious history. In Samuel's day there was no open vision; the people had lost the Word of God. They had to be taught the Word of God again, and the chronicles of the ways of God had to be written up and put on record for future generations, and the schools of the prophets were instituted in the main for that purpose. But there is a great deal of difference between those academic prophets and the living, anointed prophets. The academic prophets became members of a profession and swiftly degenerated into something unworthy. All the false prophets came from schools of prophets, and were accepted publicly on that ground. They had been to college and were accepted. But they were false prophets. Going to a religious college does not of itself make you a prophet of God.

My point is this - the identity of the vessel with its ministry is the very heart of Divine thought. A man is called to represent the thoughts of God, to represent them in what he is, not in something that he takes up as a form or line of ministry, not in something that he does. The vessel itself is the ministry and you cannot divide between the two.

THE NECESSITY FOR SELF-EMPTYING

That explains everything in the life of the great prophets. It explains the life of Moses, the prophet whom the Lord God raised up from among his brethren (Deut. 18:15,18). Moses essayed to take up his life-work. He was a man of tremendous abilities, "learned in all the wisdom of the Egyptians " (Acts 7:22), with great natural qualifications and gifts, and then somehow he got some conception of a life-work for God. It was quite true; it was a true conception, a right idea; he was very honest, there was no question at all about his motives; but he essayed to take up that work on the basis of what he was naturally, with his own ability, qualifications and zeal, and on that basis disaster was allowed to come upon the whole thing.

Not so are prophets made; not so can the prophetic office be exercised. Moses must go into the wilderness and for forty years be emptied out, until there is nothing left of all that as a basis upon which he can have confidence to do the work of God or fulfil any Divine commission. He was by nature a man "mighty in his words and works"; and yet now he says, "I am not eloquent... I am slow of speech..." (Exodus 4:10). There has been a tremendous undercutting of all natural facility and resource, and I do not think that Moses was merely disagreeable in his reply to God. He did not say in effect, 'You would not allow me to do it then, so I will not do it now.' I think he was a man who was under the Divine discipline and yet on top of it. A man who is really under things and who has become petulant does not respond to little opportunities of helping people. We get a glimpse of Moses at the beginning of his time in the wilderness (Exodus 2:16,17) which suggests that he was not of that kind. When there was difficulty at the well, over the watering of the flocks, if Moses had been in a bad mood, cantankerous, disagreeable because the Lord had not seemed to stand by him in Egypt, he probably would have sat somewhere apart and looked on and done nothing to help. But he went readily to help, in a good spirit, doing all he could. He was on top of his trial. Little things indicate where a man is.

We go through times of trial and test under the hand of God, and it is so easy to get into that frame of mind which says in effect, 'The Lord does not want us, He need not have us!' We let everything go, we do not care about anything; we have gone down under our trials and we are rendered useless. I do not believe the Lord ever comes to a person like that to take them up. Elijah, dispirited, fled to the wilderness, and to a cave in the mountains; but he had to get somewhere else before the Lord could do anything with him. "What doest thou here, Elijah?" (I Kings 19:9). The Lord never comes to a man and recommissions him when he is in despair. 'God shall forgive thee all but thy despair' (F. W. H. Myers, 'St. Paul') - because despair is lost faith in God, and God can never do anything with one who has lost faith.

Moses was emptied to the last drop, and yet he was not angry or disagreeable with God. What was the Lord doing? He was making a prophet. Beforehand, the man would have taken up an office, he would have made the prophetic function serve him, he would have used it. There was no inward, vital relationship between the man and the work that he was to do; they were two separate things; the work was objective to the man. At the end of forty years in the wilderness he is in a state for this to become subjective; something has been done. There has been brought about a state which makes the man fit to be a living expression of the Divine thought. He has been emptied of his own thoughts to make room for God's thoughts; he has been emptied of his own strength, that all the energy should be of God.

Is not that perhaps the meaning of the fire and the bush that was not consumed? It is a parable, maybe a larger parable, but I think in the immediate application it was saying something to Moses. 'Moses, you are a very frail creature, a common bush of the desert, a bit of ordinary humanity, nothing at all of resource in yourself; but there is a resource, which can carry you on and on, and you can be maintained, without being consumed, by an energy that is not your own - the Spirit of God, the energy of God.' That was the great lesson this prophet had to learn. 'I cannot!' 'All right', said the Lord, 'but I AM.'

A great deal is made of the natural side of many of the Lord's servants, and usually with tragic results. A lot is made of Paul. 'What a great man Paul was naturally, what intellect he had, what training, what tremendous abilities!' That may all be true, but ask Paul what value it was to him when he was right up against a spiritual situation. He will cry, "Who is sufficient for these things? ... Our sufficiency is from God" (II Cor. 2:16; 3:5). Paul was taken through experiences where he, like Moses, despaired of life. He said, "We... had the sentence of death within ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead" (II Cor. 1:9).

MESSAGE INWROUGHT BY ACTUAL EXPERIENCE

You see, the principle is at work all the time, that God is going to make the ministry and the minister identical. You see it in all the prophets. The Lord stood at nothing. He took infinite pains. He worked even through domestic life, the closest relationships of life. Think of the tragedy of Hosea's domestic life. Think of Ezekiel, whose wife the Lord took away in death at a stroke. The Lord said, 'Get up in the morning, anoint your face, allow not the slightest suggestion of mourning or tragedy to be detected; go out as always before, as though nothing had happened; show yourself to the people, go about with a bright countenance, provoke them to enquire what you mean by such outrageous behaviour.' The Lord brought this heartbreak upon him and then required him to act thus. Why? Ezekiel was a prophet; he had got to embody his message, and the message was this: 'Israel, God's wife, has become lost to God, dead to God, and Israel takes no notice of it; she goes on the same as ever, as though nothing had happened.' The prophet must bring it home by his own experience. God is working the thing right in. He works it in in deep and terrible ways in the life of His servant to produce ministry.

God is not allowing us to take up things and subjects. If we are under the Holy Ghost, He is going to make us prophets; that is, He is going to make the prophecy a thing that has taken place in us, so that what we say is only making vocal something that has been going on, that has been done in us. God has been doing it through years in strange, deep, terrible ways in some lives, standing at nothing, touching everything; and the vessel, thus wrought upon, is the message. People do not come to hear what you have to teach. They have come to see what you are, to see that thing which has been wrought by God. What a price the prophetic instrument has to pay!

So Moses went into the wilderness, to the awful undoing of his natural life, his natural mentality; to be brought to zero; to have the thing wrought in him. And was God justified? - for after all it was a question of resource for the future. Oh, the strain that was going to bear down upon that life! Sometimes Moses well-nigh broke; at times he did crack under the strain. "I am not able to bear all this people alone, because it is too heavy for me" (Num. 11:14). What was his resource? Oh, if it had been the old resource of Egypt he would not have stood it for a year. He could not stand provocation in Egypt, he must rise up and fight. He broke down morally and spiritually under that little strain away back there forty years before. What would he do with these rebels? How long would he put up with them? A terrific strain was going to bear down upon him, and only a deep inwrought thing, something that had been done inside, would be enough to carry through when it was a case of standing against the stream for God's full thought.

With us, too, the strain may be terrific; oft-times there will come the very strong temptation - 'Let go a little, compromise a little, do not be so utter; you will get more open doors if you will only broaden out a bit; you can have a lot more if you ease up!' What is going to save you in that hour of temptation? The only thing is that God has done this thing in you. It is part of your very being - not something you can give up; it is you, your very life. That is the only thing. God knew what He was doing with Moses. The thing had got to be so much one with the man that there was no dividing between them. The man was the prophetic ministry.

He was rejected by his brethren; they would not have him. "Who made thee a prince and a judge over us?" (Ex. 2:14). That is the human side of it. But there was the Divine side. It was of God that he went into the wilderness for forty years. It had to be, from God's side. It looked as though it was man's doing. But it was not so. These two things went together. Rejection by his brethren was all in line with the sovereign purpose of God. It was the only way in which God got the opportunity He needed to reconstitute this man. The real preparation of this prophet took place during the time that his brethren repudiated him. Oh, the sovereignty of God, the wonderful sovereignty of God! A dark time, a deep time; a breaking, crushing, grinding time; emptied out. It seems as if everything is going, that nothing will be left. Yet all that is God's way of making prophetic ministry.

A MESSENGER DIVINELY ATTESTED

I expect that Moses at the beginning would have been very legalistic, laying down the law - 'You must do this and that' - and so on; an autocrat or despot. When, after those years, we find him coming off the wheel, out of the hands of the Potter, he is said to be "very meek, above all the men that were upon the face of the earth" (Num. 12:3), and God could stand by him then. He could not stand by him on that day when he rose up in a spirit of pride, arrogance, self-assertiveness. God had to let that work itself out to its inevitable consequence. But when Moses, as the meekest of men, the broken, humble, selfless man, was challenged by others as to his office - at such a time Moses did not stand up for his position, his rights; he just handed the matter over to the Lord. His attitude was, 'We will allow the Lord to decide. I have no personal position to preserve: if the Lord has made me His prophet, let Him show it. I am prepared to go out of office if it is not of the Lord.' What a different spirit! And the Lord did stand by him marvelously and mightily on those occasions, and terribly so for those who opposed themselves (Numbers 12:2ff.; 16:3ff.).

PROPHETIC MINISTRY A LIFE, NOT TEACHING

Well, what is a prophet? what is the prophetic function? It is this. God takes hold of a vessel (it may be individual or it may be collective: the function of prophetic ministry may move through a people, as it did through Israel), and He takes that vessel through a deep history, breaking and undoing, disillusioning, revolutionising the whole mentality, so that things which were held fiercely, assertively, are no longer so held. There is developed a wonderful pliableness, adjustableness, teachableness. Everything that was merely objective as to the work of God, as to Divine truth, as to orthodoxy or fundamentalism, all that was held so strongly, in an objective, legalistic way, as to what is right and wrong in methods - it is all dealt with, all broken. There is a new conception entirely, a new outlook upon things; no longer a formal system, something outside you which you take up, but something wrought in an inward way in the vessel. It is what the vessel is that is its ministry. It is not what it has accepted of doctrine and is now teaching.

Oh, to get free of all that horrible realm of things! It is a wretched realm, that of adopting teachings, taking on interpretations, being known because such and such is your line of things. Oh, God deliver us! Oh, to be brought to the place where it is a matter of life - of what God has really done in us, made of us! First He has pulverised us, and then He has reconstructed us on a new spiritual principle, and that expresses itself in ministry: what is said is coming from what has been going on behind, perhaps for years and even right up to date.

Do you see the law of prophetic function? It is that God keeps anointed vessels abreast of truth by experience. Every bit of truth that they give out in word is something that has had a history. They went down into the depths and they were saved by that truth. It was their life and therefore it is a part of them. That is the nature of prophetic ministry.

A PROPHET, TOLERANT BUT UNCOMPROMISING

Reverting to what I was saying about the change in Moses: you can see a reflection of it in the case of Samuel. I think Samuel is one of the most beautiful and lovable characters in the Old Testament, and he is called a prophet. Do you notice that although his own heart is utterly devoted to God's highest and fullest thought, and inwardly he has no compromise whatever, yet he shows a marvelous charity toward Saul during those early months? (It seems not to have gone much beyond a year, the first year of Saul's reign, during which it seems that Saul really did seek to show some semblance of good.) And yet you must remember that Saul represents the denial of the highest of all things - the direct and immediate government of God. Such government was repudiated by Israel in favour of a king - "Make us a king to judge us like all the nations", they said. God said to Samuel: "They have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me" (I Samuel 8:5-7).

Kingship was a Divine principle as much as prophecy was. The lion is there with the man. The monarch, representing God's thought of dominion, is there. But with Saul it is on a lower level. His coming in represented the bringing down of that Divine thought to the level of the world: "like all the nations" - a Divine thought taken hold of by carnal men, dragged down to the world level; and Samuel knew it. In his heart he could not accept that, and he complained to God about it; he was against this thing, for he saw what it meant. But how charitable he was to Saul as long as he could be!

Why do I say that? Because there is a condition like that existing today. Divine things have been taken hold of by men carnally, and brought down to an earth level; the direct government of the Holy Spirit has been exchanged for committees and boards and so on. Men have set up the government in Divine things and are running things for God. The way of the New Testament, that in prayer and fasting the mind of the Lord is secured, is hardly known. Well, those who are spiritual, who know, who see, who understand, cannot accept that. But they are very charitable. A true prophet, like Samuel, will be charitable as long as possible, until that wrong thing takes the pronounced and positive form of disobedience to light given. The Lord came to Saul through Samuel and gave him clearly to understand what he had to do. It was made known to him with unmistakable clearness what God required of him, and he was disobedient. Then Samuel said, 'No more charity with that!' He was implacable. "Because thou hast rejected the word of the Lord, he hath rejected thee from being king" (I Samuel 15:23). Samuel went as far as he could while the man did the best he could. That is charity.

Of course, types are always weak and imperfect, but you can see the truth there. The prophet Samuel showed a great deal of forbearance with things that were wrong, even while in his heart he could not accept them. He hoped that light would break and obedience follow and the situation be saved. We have to be very charitable to all that with which we do not agree.

The point is this - Moses had to learn that; he had to be made like that. We are better fitted to serve the Lord's purpose, we are truer prophets, when we can bear with things with which we do not agree, than when in our zeal we are iconoclasts, and seek only to destroy the offending thing. The Lord says, 'That will not do.'

In all that we have said we have emphasized only one thing - that prophetic ministry is a function. Its function is to hold everything in relation to God's full thought - but not as holding a 'line' of things, in an objective and legalistic way. You do not take something up. You can only do it truly as God has wrought into you that thing for which you are going to stand, and in so far as it has been revealed in you through experience, through the handling of God - God has taken you through it, and you know it like that. It is not that you have achieved something, but rather that you have been broken in the process. Now you are fit for something in the Lord.

T. Austin-Sparks : The Making of a Prophet

M
murrcolr Jan 13, 2024

These are points from the article that spoke to me about my calling in life.

Here we come to the most important point of the whole. It is the absolute identity of the vessel with the vessel's ministry. Prophetic ministry is not something that you can take up. It is something that you are. No academy can make you a prophet.

"You can't just preach a message; you must be the message." is the voice I still hear today.

A man is called to represent the thoughts of God, to represent them in what he is, not in something that he takes up as a form or line of ministry, not in something that he does. The vessel itself is the ministry and you cannot divide between the two.

Some prophets in scripture are so identified with the message of God that their names represent what he is going to do.

Moses for example name means to pull out/draw out of water.

What happened to the leader of the people ie he was pulled out of the water, later happens to the whole people at the Red Sea, as Israel enters into Moses’s experience of deliverance from the waters.

Elijah means the Lord is my God: then we have that famous prayer.

We must consider what Baal means: Lord

The question is whether the Lord is God or Baal is God.

"O LORD, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Israel, today let it be known that You are God in Israel and that I am Your servant and I have done all these things at Your word"

Then Yahweh’s fire fell and consumed the burnt offering, the wood, the stones, and the dust, and it licked up the water that was in the trench

When all the people saw it, they fell facedown and said, "The Lord, He is God"

What was the message through this man, Lord is my God, what happened to the nation they also declared, "The Lord, He is God"

My point is this - the identity of the vessel with its ministry is the very heart of Divine thought. A man is called to represent the thoughts of God, to represent them in what he is, not in something that he takes up as a form or line of ministry, not in something that he does. The vessel itself is the ministry and you cannot divide between the two.

E
ESchaible Jan 14, 2024

"And he said to me, "Son of man, I send you to the people of Israel, to nations of rebels, who have rebelled against me. They and their fathers have transgressed against me to this very day. The descendants also are impudent and stubborn: I send you to them, and you shall say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD.’ And whether they hear or refuse to hear (for they are a rebellious house) they will know that a prophet has been among them. And you, son of man, be not afraid of them, nor be afraid of their words, though briers and thorns are with you and you sit on scorpions. Be not afraid of their words, nor be dismayed at their looks, for they are a rebellious house. And you shall speak my words to them, whether they hear or refuse to hear, for they are a rebellious house. "But you, son of man, hear what I say to you. Be not rebellious like that rebellious house; open your mouth and eat what I give you.” And when I looked, behold, a hand was stretched out to me, and behold, a scroll of a book was in it. And he spread it before me. And it had writing on the front and on the back, and there were written on it words of lamentation and mourning and woe.” (Ezekiel 2:3-10)

Everyone loves to talk about the glorious ministries of Moses and Samuel, but hardly will you ever find the prophetic explanations of Ezekiel - especially regarding identification, or the preparation and lengthy wilderness in every prophets formation. It's death upon death upon death - until there is nothing left of the man, and you cannot tell any longer where the man ends and His God begins.

The office isn't just not glamorous, it's purposefully the opposite. You're life becomes a rash of inconsistencies and obediences that don't even make sense to yourself, let alone those around you. You become the bane of most peoples existence; your presence will grate on those that are not surrendered to Jesus in totality. You are taken up in the purposes and mysteries of God - and there is no escape.

You're words, actions, writing and very life are a reproach to not only those to whom you are sent, but to yourself as well. The God of all creation has chosen to form you into a messenger to His people, and the prophet will never be sent to an obedient people - the prophet is sent to rail against the false and call God's people to the true.

It's being misunderstood, hated, mistreated, often under heavens of brass as you waste away wondering if the Lord has abandoned you to your own self will and thinking you've been deceived yourself.

"The Spirit lifted me up and took me away, and I went in bitterness in the heat of my spirit, the hand of the LORD being strong upon me. And I came to the exiles at Tel-abib, who were dwelling by the Chebar canal, and I sat where they were dwelling. And I sat there overwhelmed among them seven days. And at the end of seven days, the word of the LORD came to me:” (Ezekiel 3:14-16)

It's out of the death that the Word comes - after the bitterness, heat of spirit, the overwhelmed sense of nothingness and silence.


But most of all, the office itself must be placed on the cross and crucified. The expectation of being useful as a mouthpiece is the first hindrance to being useful to the Lord. You must die to even the prospect of usefulness before you can be used - because if you seek it, or think you can be of use, or have any confidence whatsoever in the flesh, the Lords first order of business will be practical death to it all - especially the hope of usefulness.

These truths are totality and ultimate. The prophet is a steward of great mysteries, and to be faithful in these things means that all self must be killed - because no one is sufficient for these things.

The church is a prophetic presence in and of itself, insomuch as it takes up it's cross and follows its Lord. The prophet is the watchman on the wall, warning of wolves and protecting the little flock - and this is the most costly and least rewarding office there is - because the flock will hate and reproach you as an alarmist, for simply doing your duty.

I wanted to say a few words to you Colin, and also on this topic since it is very dear to me. I have a godly jealousy over the prophetic calling - the church is built in the foundation of the apostles and prophets.

I am not going to really interact much more on here and retreat back to my devotional thoughts thread, but I do hope your apprehension to this life is a true one, and I do hope you brace yourself for the exact opposite of what the popular mainstream "prophets" say the office is. They are the ones that run of their own self will to steal words from each other and speak of their dreams and visions, with absolutely no word from the Lord at all. They are the ones you are called to speak against as you uphold the truth.

The true will always be tasked with the exposure of the false, it's the way of things.

Nothing I said here is up for debate; it's a word for you Colin - a call to death and utter totality in surrender and humiliation as you go out with God having no idea where you are going or why you are doing it.

Jesus is the resurrection and the life; His testimony is the spirit of prophecy; and to speak the Word is to speak Christ and Christ alone. Death leads to Jesus, to resurrection, and to life.

For me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.

Let that be your banner.


B
BranchinVINE Jan 14, 2024


Good article by Austin-Sparks.

Thanks, Colin, for posting.

God bless you.


ADD:

Moses did not look down at the people from a high ministerial position and railed against them for their failings.

He was a great intercessor.

Num. 14:11-21; 16:44-48.

Moses trusted in God's lovingkindness and prayed for the salvation of the people and death was averted.

B
billy1980 Jan 14, 2024

Thank you for sharing this!

M
murrcolr Jan 14, 2024

Quote: a call to death and utter totality in surrender and humiliation as you go out with God having no idea where you are going or why you are doing it.

I have become a fool in glorying; ye have compelled me: for I ought to have been commended of you: for in nothing am I behind the very chiefest apostles, though I be nothing. 2 Cor 12:11

There is the cross made manifest in the life of Paul - "though I be nothing". At this time, as the calling of God is drawing me out, I find the cross, the whisper in my ear - "You must become nothing."

For what God requires of me, I cannot do. There is no earthly strength to perform the task; the promise made by God has become the instrument of death in me. It reveals my weakness, my insufficiency; it exposes my sinful heart, my utter hopeless state. "I am nothing."

But there is hope; I see Christ; I see his example and read his statement, "I can do nothing on my own.", "I do nothing on my own authority". Oh, for that fully yielded life a victorious life, free from weakness, insufficiency and sinfulness, oh for the life of Christ.

That's where I am; please remember me in your prayers as you move forward into the calling of God.

M
murrcolr Jan 15, 2024

Quote: Well, what is a prophet? What is the prophetic function? It is this. God takes hold of a vessel (it may be individual or it may be collective: the function of prophetic ministry may move through a people, as it did through Israel)

I have been thinking about this since I read it.

God takes hold of a people. A prophetic people!!!

I am not thinking about NAR; I am thinking about the future.

Then, today, I was listening to a sermon from David Wilkerson preaching from Ezekiel. While I was listening, these bones are the Last Days Church.

Are you saying the church is dead? Technically, no, because I heard it from heaven.

Can you imagine walking into a church and hearing God speaking to you? One of the first things he says is the church is dead.

But then he gives you hope and says; I speak in the middle of death; do you hear my voice? Of course, the answer was yes. Then he said there are thousands of people around the world hearing my voice. I didn't know what to call it then, but today, I would say a remnant.

Then he said get up, you and all these people.

These are the end-time prophetic people (the church of the last days)

A
AbideinHim Jan 15, 2024

. "The Church is to be the fullness of Him; a full-grown Man - that is the Church. The prophetic ministry is unto that - the fullness of Christ, the finality of Christ, the all-inclusiveness of Christ. It is to be Christ, centre and circumference; Christ, first and last; Christ in general and Christ in every detail. And to see Christ by revelation means that you can never accept anything less or other. You have seen, and that has settled it. The way to reach God's end, then, is seeing by the Holy Spirit, and that seeing is the basis of this prophetic ministry."

"I think that that perhaps is enough to show what I said earlier, that if we see the nature of the ministry, we at once see what the vessel is. The vessel may be individuals fulfilling such a ministry, or it may be collective. Later we may say something more about the vessel, but let us not now think technically, in terms of apostles and prophets and so on, as offices. Let us think of them as vital functions. God is concerned that the man and the function are identical, not the man and a professional or official position with a title, whatever the title may be. The vessel must be that, and that must justify the vessel. We will not go about advertising ourselves as prophets; but God grant that there may be raised up a prophetic ministry for a time like this, when His whole purpose concerning His Son is brought back into view amongst His people. That is their need, and it is His.”


T. Austin Sparks

T
twayneb Jan 21, 2024

[qoute]
I am not thinking about NAR; I am thinking about the future.

Then, today, I was listening to a sermon from David Wilkerson preaching from Ezekiel. While I was listening, these bones are the Last Days Church.

Are you saying the church is dead? Technically, no, because I heard it from heaven.

Can you imagine walking into a church and hearing God speaking to you? One of the first things he says is the church is dead.

But then he gives you hope and says; I speak in the middle of death; do you hear my voice? Of course, the answer was yes. Then he said there are thousands of people around the world hearing my voice. I didn't know what to call it then, but today, I would say a remnant.

Then he said get up, you and all these people.

These are the end-time prophetic people (the church of the last days)[/qoute]

The church is not dead...AMEN! Totally agreed. It never has been, nor will it be until Jesus appears.

I have a different perspective than some I guess. I don't see an end time prophetic people in scripture. I see a bride that has made herself ready. I see a bride purified by God.

I don't think the church is dead or that she ever has been.

This is how I see the church.

2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.

4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,

5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. note

6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, note

8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: note note

10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

B
brendaM Jan 21, 2024

"The office isn't just not glamorous, it's purposefully the opposite. You're life becomes a rash of inconsistencies and obediences that don't even make sense to yourself, let alone those around you. You become the bane of most peoples existence; your presence will grate on those that are not surrendered to Jesus in totality. You are taken up in the purposes and mysteries of God - and there is no escape." Evan.

AMEN!

M
murrcolr Jan 21, 2024

Quote: I don't think the church is dead or that she ever has been. - This is how I see the church.

The church at Sardis was described as being "dead” (3:1). It appeared to be alive ”“ had "a reputation of being alive” ”“ looked spiritually vibrant on the outside.

In Romans 7-9-11 I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died. The very commandment that promised life proved to be death to me. For sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me.

Sin, producing death in me through that which is good the law. If we try and walk the Christian life in our own strength, out with what we have been promised in the New Covenant, we will be dead.

Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

If ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

You shall live - God has promised "I will do it" Ezekiel 36

Reminds of the dry bones in Ezekiel 37

My mindset on the matter, if you have a "people" the church is not relying on the Spirit but are living in the flesh, it will be dead.

L
Lysa Jan 22, 2024


murrcolr,

Something I was thinking about. Micaiah, son of Imlah, was one of the four disciples of Elijah, the prophet.

2Chron 18:6 Jehoshaphat asked, "Is there not still a prophet of the LORD here of whom we can inquire?”

7) The king of Israel (Ahab) answered, "There is still one man who can ask the LORD, BUT I HATE HIM BECAUSE HE NEVER PROPHESIES ANTHING GOOD FOR ME, ONLY BAD. He is Micaiah son of Imlah.”

11) And all the prophets were prophesying the same, saying, "Go up to Ramoth-gilead and prosper, for the LORD will deliver it into the hand of the king.”

Micaiah Prophesies against Ahab
(1 Kings 22:13”“28)

17) Then the king of Israel said to Jehoshaphat, "DID I NOT TELL YOU THAT HE "NEVER" prophesies good for me, but only bad?”

lololol This always makes me chuckle because WHAT COURAGE a prophet needs to prophesy the truth to someone wanting only good for themselves.

I submit that I don't see many of these around today. Remember the U.S. presidential election of 2020, they came out of the woodwork to say hooray Trump.

I know quiet man from Ohio who said in the living room of friends that I was in (in 2018 or 19, way before the election). He was honest enough to say, 'I'm not sure what God meant by this but the Spirit said, "I'm going to chew Trump up and spit him out of my mouth.' (edit We had no idea at that time but hindsight is 20/20).

There are many Ahab's in the land today but oh to be a Micaiah, even a Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, and Malachi!!! Amen!

To God be all the glory!!

This discussion is locked.

Archived
1 of 12 posts