My Undestanding of "Christ in You the Hope of Glory"

I follow so far, and will wait for more clarity before I respond.

I will ask this one thing as a possible avenue of clarity: Can you explain to me your understanding of the difference between "Christ in you" and "you in Christ"? This is a place where, over the course of the last years, the Lord has shed tremendous light for me, and as I said in the other thread, I believe we could possibly sharpen each other here and come to a better understanding of what we know to be true.

I have a few articles I have written in the past, interestingly one in particular I would be interested in your opinion on, and how it fits into your understandings.

There is also a testimony I posted quite some time ago in another section of this forum that the Lord used as the means to lead me to sanctification - and I think you would find it a glorious telling of God's work along these lines in the spirit and soul of a person. Also, if you're interested I will post it here.

Let me know if you would like to give either a read.

Until then, I will wait for your subsequent posts.

In Colossians 1, Christ in you, the hope of glory is the thing that was hidden throughout the whole of the ages was the indwelling of Christ, being in us, the salvation of the Lord realized. That is not a futuristic thing, that one day we will have the glory because now we have Christ in us as kind of a promise of it. It's not a hope that one day we'll be in glory. Christ in you is the object. That's what the word means. The object of hope. The thing hoped for. Not a means to have hope for something to come. It means, it has the implication not of a hope for something to be, but the very object that was hoped for previously now present. That's who Christ is in us.

Vern said:
"That's who Christ is in us."

I would say that Christ is Himself in us. That sounds facetious, but I believe our words mean something, and to add a caveat to the emphatic statement that the living person of Jesus literally indwells those that are His is a false start to entire the topic. To reduce the living person of Jesus to a proposition is to immediately lose everything redemption purchased for us.

IH,

I follow you so far, and I agree. If you could, can you explain how you understand that righteousness to be obtained? ie. The purpose of the cross, the precious blood of Jesus, our identification with Him, etc.

To summarize the question, the scriptural juxtaposition of "you in Christ", and "Christ in you".

Complete IH: You said that you are totally convinced of what you are saying, and that no one will ever change your mind with "fleshly arguments". It almost seems like you would define any argument against what you believe as fleshly. I hope that is not the case, and I hope my reply comes across correctly. I want to challenge you with scripture, hopefully not a fleshly argument, to dig deep into the Bible and compare what you are saying with the word of God. There are parts of what you say that I would have to wholeheartedly agree with. There are parts that I am afraid are not supported in scripture. I am not challenging you in argument. I am challenging you to dig into the scriptures and carefully consider what they are saying. That being said, I have some questions and concerns.

The basic meaning of this phrase that is found in Colossians 1:27 is this (according to my understanding):

Assuming that you are setting up the next paragraph, you sure seem to get a lot of hay off of a pretty small pasture here. Are you sure that this one verse says all of what you wrote in the following paragraph?

To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. Paul is writing these words in a passage describing the ministry to which God had ordained him, that he would take the message of the gospel to the Gentiles. Paul describes both his message, and his target audience, and God's design (the mystery that is now revealed) in many other places in his writings. The mystery declared among the Gentiles was salvation by grace open to all men, both Jew and Gentile. It was foreshadowed in the tabernacle of David. It was prophesied in Amos 9:11, and Luke says it was fulfilled in Acts 15:16-17 that this was the gospel being given to the Gentiles. In Romans 8, Paul describes the same glory mentioned in Colossians 1:27. It is the glorification that we will share in when Christ returns. It is the redemption of the body. That is the hope. Paul is very clear about it in Romans 8, reiterating it several times.

So, Colossians 1:27 is telling us that Paul was called to make known the gospel of salvation through Christ (the mystery locked away throughout the old covenant but now revealed) to the gentiles. That mystery is Christ in us, the new life of the new covenant, that gives us the hope of living in glory, eternally, with Christ.

Do you have any clear scriptural teaching on what you said in the next paragraph? Is it clearly taught in scripture?

They great HOPE that is spoken of in scripture is the prize of obtaining God’s GLORY. This glory of God that brings life to the soul of a man is only given to a man when God is pleased with that man.

What scripture teaches these things? Can you demonstrate where this is laid out in scripture?

However, the only way to actually do the will of God is by fully trusting in his provision of righteousness.

The only way to develop a perfect faith in God’s righteousness is for God to teach a person through his Holy Spirit. However, God will not give the gift of his spirit to a person that he does not see as righteous (a person he is not pleased with). So, without righteousness, we have no hope of having the Holy Spirit given to us. And without the Holy Spirit, we have no hope of coming to fully trust in the righteousness of God.

Isn't this a totally circular statement? Without the Holy Spirit we cannot be righteous, but without being righteous we will not be given the Holy Spirit? Can you tell me where scripture teaches this?

But this is where Jesus comes into the picture. God, by his will, places those he chooses into his son Jesus, God then sees that person as righteous (because this person is hid in Christ). Because he sees that person as righteous, he is able and willing to give that person the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Again, accurate statement. Jesus did for us what the law could not do. Through Christ we have righteousness imputed to us, credited to us, when we could never have it any other way.

Now, through the righteousness of Christ, this person has a real HOPE of coming to trust in the righteousness of God. Without the righteousness of Jesus, no such hope could exist because God would not willingly give his gift of the Holy Spirit to a person he was not pleased with.

This is why Jesus is the Hope of Glory. Because I am in Christ (or because he is in me, however you choose to look at it), I have the spirit of God, and because I have the Holy Spirit teaching me, I now have a real and living hope of one day possessing a perfect and unshakable faith in the righteous that God has provided for me. This perfected faith will then enable me to enjoy a life of perfect liberty.

This is where I have to ask for more scriptural teaching. Where does the Bible clearly teach this? Where do we find taught that because of the Holy Spirit we now have a hope that we can come to trust in the righteousness given to us?

The next paragraph gives the reason for all that you have just said and, in my opinion, the motivation for seeing things this way. But again, I have to ask a question. Where does scripture clearly teach that, through the Holy Spirit, we grow in faith so that one day we will possess a perfect faith that causes us to live in perfect liberty? Can you show me that scripturally?

Brother, I am not writing this to argue about what you believe vs. what I believe. In fact, I won't even go down that road. That is not my motivation. I hope you will take what you are believing and compare it carefully with scripture. If it is not taught clearly in scripture, then it is not scriptural. It goes beyond scripture and adds ideas that will eventually lead to some pretty deep problems spiritually. So we have to ask ourselves, is this Biblical? Can I demonstrate with clear teaching in scripture what I believe?

Just something for you to consider.

@brother Evan,

"There is also a testimony I posted quite some time ago in another section of this forum that the Lord used as the means to lead me to sanctification - and I think you would find it a glorious telling of God's work along these lines in the spirit and soul of a person. Also, if you're interested I will post it here."

Please kindly link me thereto. I would like to read the said account(s)

IH,
I could quip about how the most glorious of things comes through death and resurrection - even though I just did I will refrain. :)

I assure you IH, I am not looking for debate - merely to seek understanding for spiritual realities we intuitively know to be true.

Kervin,
Give the "miracles that follow the plow" section a look over - the title is something along the lines of "This testimony was the vessel of the Lord in my sanctification". Links tend to break the forum and discombobulate the threads.

I have never read Norman Grubb before, so a, busy studying his theology, and particularly from his commentary on Romans 6 7 & 8 from the Overcomer so that I can understand where you are coming from Evan so any further useful writings from him would be welcome.

Norman Grubb didn't get all his teachings from Scripture.
https://www.christinyou.net/pages/dualityinunity.htm

Beware

Markus

@brother Evan, I shall do and thanks.

@Sister Brenda, I think you meant to post the Grubb related text on the 'Nothingness' thread? Yes I may have missed something (and sorry if I have)

Thank you Markus, ha! I was reading that link during the night and was going to post it this morning!

Yes it seems that he had a heretical view of the Trinity.

It was meant to be here Kervin.