William Seymour and Charles Parham

PRAYER FOR REVIVAL 🔥🔥🔥
Brother Parham was preaching in Texas. A black man by the name of Tom Seymour came into his meeting. Parham related his experience to Brother Tom and myself. There was a deep hunger in that black man’s soul. He worked as a waiter in a restaurant to support himself while preaching to a church of his own people. He knew God as his Saviour and Sanctifier. He knew the power of God to heal. But as he listened to Parham, he became convinced of a bigger thing””the baptism of the Holy Ghost. He went on to Los Angeles without receiving it, but he said he was determined to preach all of God he knew to the people.
He said, "Before I met Parham, such a hunger to have more of God was in my heart that I prayed for five hours a day for two and a half years. I got to Los Angeles, and there the hunger was not less but more. I prayed, ‘God, what can I do?’ The Spirit said, ‘Pray more. There are better things to be had in spiritual life, but they must be sought out with faith and prayer.’ ‘But Lord, I am praying five hours a day now.’ I increased my hours of prayer to seven, and prayed on for a year and a half more. I prayed to God to give me what Parham preached, the real Holy Ghost and fire with tongues and love and power of God like the apostles had.”
God had put such a hunger into that man’s heart that when the fire of God came it glorified him.

I do not believe any other man in modem times had a more wonderful deluge of God in his life than God gave to that dear fellow, and the glory and power of a real Pentecost swept the world.
That black man preached to my congregation of ten thousand people when the glory and power of God was upon his spirit, and men shook and trembled and cried to God. God was in him.
"Blessed are they which do hunger, for they shall be filled.”
I wonder what we are hungering for. Have we a real divine hunger, something our soul is asking for? If you have, God will answer; God will answer. By every law of the Spirit that men know, the answer is due to come. It will come! Bless God, it will come. It will come in more ways than you ever dreamed of. God is not confined to manifesting Himself in tongues and interpretations alone.

- John G Lake ( Spiritual Hunger )

I still feel there is something solid in this Azusa's Street Revival. But it is curious how he would go for so many years without the baptism of the Spirit? And at the same time be able to pray a prayer that shook a heaven borne revival down? Or did he confuse baptism with an in filling for a special occassion?

God still uses men and women that are not baptized in the Holy Spirit. If they are born again, the spirit of God is dwelling within them. The men and women that God used at the beginning of Azusa Street, were part of the holiness movement, and they believed in sanctification, cleansing by the blood, and they believed that there was a a second work of grace, And William Seymour came to realize that the second work of Grace was the Baptism of the Holy Spirit through Parham’s teachings .

God still uses men and women that are not baptized in the Holy Spirit. If they are born again, the spirit of God is dwelling within them. The men and women that God used at the beginning of Azusa Street, were part of the holiness movement, and they believed in sanctification, cleansing by the blood, and they believed that there was a a second work of grace, And William Seymour came to realize that the second work of Grace was the Baptism of the Holy Spirit through Parham’s teachings .

I recently discoursed with a sister on the topic and we came to the conclusion that this sanctification must happen at the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Ravenhill also believed that Wesley's Entire Sactification was the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

And currently, my believe has been that if a man is going without the baptism, something is missing. I can not think of this being so because of a delay on God's part? He sent Peter to Cornelius and just as Peter was preaching, the Spirit fell on the folks. So what can we provide as the explanation for this brother's baptism delay - amidst several years of protracted prayer?

And brother, I do not think we can say we are indwelled until the baptism of the Holy Spirit encounter. Until then, the Spirit stays with us more like the atmosphere does (yes it probably infuse through every cell of our body too) - the same work it way when we were first awaken to spiritual things. But at baptism, I understand it is the official start day for indwelling.

I think it's not as straight forward as we first think.

My first experience with God, was when after a said to God I was fed up being the way I was and that I wanted to change.

When I lay down on my bed a wind left me, the next thing that happen was that a wind came and blew into me. Then I sat up and spoke in a new language. At that point I asked what was that, then the thought came "Tounges"

It was many years later once I was in a period of sifting (testing), that I was made aware of the sinfulness that remained in me. At the same time the Spirit led me to the teaching of Holiness.

Which I have been reading and studying about since that time.

Recently I have become aware that God is calling me - this caused me to come a "crisis" that's what the holiness guys would call it. But you could say it was the cross at work in my bringing me to the point of utter helplessness, looking at the calling of God and then my condition, compared to a Holy God and what he represents.

If I should describe it would be "nothingness" where you have nothing which is of benefit to God. That you come to see you are nothing. Like Paul in 2 Cor 12:5 he says "I am nothing".

However since then the New Covenant has come to life and that was only a 2-3 weeks ago.

The need for the promised Spirit of God is what I am seeking, he must cleanse men, he must give me a new clean heart, he must remove my impurities, my idols, so that I can keep his laws.

But that the awesome thing is he has promised to do it!

That's what I mean that it's more complicated than we first think. It's not enough to be "born again" and be operating in the gifts of the Spirit, although I have seen such blessed things, there is more.

It reminds of when Paul spoke to the Corinthian church and said "the more excellent way" if you have not Love you are "nothing". There it goes again. "Nothing" Lol.

There is a deeper work of the Spirit, but it does require us to come to a "crisis" and that is the cross at work in your life, it will deal with Sin that remains, but it's also a dealing with you, because Sin and Self are intertwined to the very deepest parts of your being.

Christ said

Mark 7:21-23 For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.”

We must have a new heart - what I mean by heart or what the bible means by heart is the Mind, Will and emotions it is the very seat of the Self life.

Rather than a heart with Sin, we need a heart that is intertwined with Christ. Out of that heart will come "Love", that's what Paul eludes to in the book of Corinthians "the more excellent way'.

Mind Blowing I understand - but God has promised it!

Paul describes it in Galatians - "It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me".

So that is why I say "it's not as straight forward as we first think".

Oh that God would give His followers a pure heart instead of all the fluff we hear so much about. Thankfully more and more including Christian academics are seeing that the 'fluff' has not delivered and one more thing is needed.

We are not to climb in over the walls but by the appointed way of holiness.

Brother murrcolr, I feel I must agree with what you are presenting. I do understand that right after making a decision for Christ (see the case at Cornelius), you can receive the Holy Spirit baptism. And only to realise as you thus cross-walk that you still carry around 'self' for example - who must (amongst other?) must be put to death. Coming to muturity we might call it - so as to be able to eat strong meat and the likes?

However to come to Christ and beging to minister in some sort without the baptism seems very wrong. Jusus commanded the desciples to wait as he got ready to go back home. As much as he needed them to declare him in all the parts of the world he did not send them out as yet. So here I wonder how this brother can so pray prior to this baptism that to me seems more like a buckle-up stage prior to driving off.

@Sister brenda, it is a great practice to dismiss views with an attached note - so that all can judge and possibly see the fluff. The Devil is so crafty and will not always make his fluff easy to tell by any Jim or Jack (Jesus you shall know them by their fruits). So providing biblical arguments that supports your view could help a lot.

In order to discern what is 'fluff' one must do some studying to find out themselves where the difference is with the traditional holiness teachers and that cannot be done with a few bible verses. You could start with the link I posted by an ex tongue speaker regarding that gift so I already have done it. If one fellows through from that one will see what is not scriptural.

Dear sister, early Christians did not have the resource you linked to I believe. All they had was essentially what you referred to as few bible verses. The letter from Paul today, and then from Peter the other day, etc.

So it would seem like while you intend good, you do not 'always' seem to seek it in the best way. Or am I wrong?

Remark noted. They had the Holy Spirit to lead them into all truth.

That is true and the Holy Spirit is here today to lead in the same way. So yes leaving him out in the equation would be to defraud him. Yes the aim is not to seem to dismiss on a dogmatic sense but to point out how something is not consistent with evangelical Christian teaching.

P.S: Also to remember that when some taught that circumcision and keeping to law were to persist, the matter was brought before the elders in Jerusalem and it was sifted through (doubless with the presence of the Holy Spirit) and they managed to reach a resolution. So putting a matter on the table for to be discussed must constitute a valid practice I understand.

"how something is not consistent with evangelical Christian teaching."

The starting point is the Filioque Clause, where western Christianity departed from the Orthodox creed which is scriptural and says:

"When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me." (John 15:26)

"The essential matter in the filioque clause is a desire to protect the deity of the Holy Spirit. The Bible clearly teaches that the Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4). Those who oppose the filioque clause object because they believe the Holy Spirit proceeding from the Father and the Son makes the Holy Spirit "subservient” to the Father and Son. Those who uphold the filioque clause believe that the Holy Spirit proceeding from both the Father and the Son does not impact the Spirit being equally God with the Father and the Son."

https://www.gotquestions.org/filioque-clause-controversy.html

The western church followed Augustine and said ;and the Spirit proceedeth'.

This was anaethamatized by the EO and declared heretical later at a council. From that heresy the whole of the western Christian world has gone astray and especially at he Reformation.

Unless if I got you wrong? Many Christians out there are the products of bibles they received distributed by one of the great many protestants out there. Now to be sound, must they call themselves Orthodoxians or just Christians is sufficient? Seeings they believed after hearing the Gospel as presented in the Scipture? Or shall we force-class them as Protestants because they received their bibles from a Protestant's hand?

The theological eyes they saw scripture through, and the translations, beyond the very first understanding of the gospel, was from the Reformation or from Aquinas. Both heresies according to the early years.

Apologies if I got you wrong. Suppose I find an atheist son of a witch in Malawi who has just graduated college and I hand a KJV bible to them. They read, believe and convert. Do we call him Orthodox, Protestant or just Christian after that.

He won't stay just a Christian long. He will soon be captured by one sect or another and indoctrinated. The devil will see to that.

And where is the guiding Holy Spirit when the devil is thus trying?

A new believer won't have the discernment needed and as he will still be sinning - the devil has his piece of flesh. Maybe the Lord will direct him hopefully but it all depends on how tender his heart is. He will have heard error during his schooling also. I don't like to stick around 'what ifs'.