Not .... Jesus AND

Luke 9:23-24 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.

In the days of my ignorance to the righteousness that God provides, I believed that this passage was a suggestion from Jesus that a person needed to live a life of sacrifice if they wanted to be admitted into heaven. I thought that Jesus was saying that to enter into heaven, you must not seek to save your life by making it comfortable and enjoyable, but that you must lose your life as you live a life of hardship in order to evangelize the world. But, now that my days of ignorance are coming to an end, I am quite sure that this is not what Jesus meant.

I am about 99 percent certain that with these words, Jesus was not rebuking a person’s effort to be comfortable in life; instead, he was rebuking a person’s refusal to entrust their righteousness to him. What Jesus was really saying was that if you seek to please God by your own effort, then you are going to fail in your attempt. If YOU seek to SAVE your life (please God) through your effort and power, then your self-effort is going to ensure that you fail. On the other hand, those who are willing to entrust Jesus to live righteously on their behalf, they will succeed in pleasing God.

It has never been about going to heaven and escaping the fate of hell. It has always been about righteousness and pleasing God through that righteousness. It has always been about receiving the glory and praise of God when we live a life that is pleasing to him. However, it just so happens that the only way to please God is by trusting him to provide the righteousness that we need. My effort to please God will fail every time and actually cause me to displease God as I try to please him. Yes, as crazy as it sounds, trying to please God by not sinning is actually a sin in itself. So, the only way a person can actually not commit the sin of trying to please God is by completely surrendering their pursuit of righteousness (pleasing God) to Jesus the Savior.

Now, there is actually a very practical reason for this arrangement. It has to do with loving others. It is God’s desire that men enjoy all other men. It is not God’s desire that men merely tolerate each other, but it is his desire that we actually delight in one another and truly LIKE one another. However, you cannot like a person when you are looking down on them and accusing them. You cannot truly like a person to the point of rejoicing in that person if you are judging that person. However, you cannot help but judge a person once you make the slightest effort to BE GOOD and DO the RIGHT thing. Once you personally make an effort to do the right thing by your own will and power, you will automatically begin to judge those who do not put forth the same effort that you put forth to be good. Though you may not admit that you are doing so or even recognize that you are doing so, once you work to do right, you will automatically begin to despise all others who do not work as hard as you are working.This is why God ordained it from the very beginning for all righteousness to be of him and him alone. Because it is God’s desire for men to truly love and enjoy each other, he requires that men leave the matter of right and wrong to God and only God.

For Adam, the ability to love and rejoice in all men was dependent upon him not eating from the tree of good and evil. As long as he would avoid the knowledge of right and wrong, he could avoid the temptation to establish right and avoid wrong by his own power. And as long as he could avoid the temptation to establish his own righteousness, he would never lose his love for others. But, once Adam eats from the tree and gains the knowledge of good and evil, he will ultimately do a work of righteousness and become a judge and condemner of others instead of a lover of others.

Now that the knowledge of right and wrong is present, the earth is filled with hate. Once a man seeks to do the right thing by his own effort and power, the potential to love is lost. Once you do your first work of righteousness, you will naturally hate and despise others instead of loving and rejoicing in them.

Now that Pandora’s Box has been opened, there is only one way back into the paradise of loving others ”“ Jesus the Savior of the World. A man can only regain the ability to enjoy the fruit of true love by entrusting Jesus to live righteously on his behalf. The man must surrender the work of doing right and avoiding wrong to Jesus. Only those who entrust Jesus with the task of living righteously on their behalf will be able to enjoy the fruit of real, undefiled love. Only those who make Jesus LORD of this area of life will be able to truly rejoice in all men.

If you want to love and enjoy the joy unspeakable that comes from that love, then it cannot be Jesus AND your work of church attendance. It cannot be Jesus AND your work of paying tithes. It cannot be Jesus AND your work of obedience to a bunch of tedious do’s and don’ts. It cannot be Jesus AND your effort of praying. It cannot be Jesus AND your effort to be a good person. All the "ANDS” must die with Christ on the cross. For every AND that you add to his work will ensure that you will never know the joy of true love.

Now, here is the trickiest part of all ”“ If you want to enjoy the magnificent delight of loving others, it cannot even be Jesus AND believing in Jesus. Say what? Yes, I know, that sounds crazy. However, it is most certainly true. In order to enjoy the joyful fruit called love, your trust must be in Jesus alone and not in your action of trusting in Jesus. The pride of our flesh is a very wicked and deceitful thing. So much so, that even our choice to trust in Jesus will cause us to judge and despise others who have not made the same "wise” choice. As long as our trusting in Christ is seen as a choice that we personally made by our own will and logic, our trust in Christ will never produce the fruit of love it was ordained of God to create. It is for this reason that a person’s choice to trust in Christ must be by the spirit and power of God. It is God who first calls a person to trust in Christ (maybe he is calling you now through these words you are reading), but then, after God calls one to trust in Christ, God must teach and convince that person (through the Holy Spirit) that even their choice to trust in Christ was through the spirit and power of God. God must teach that person that they did not come to Christ because they are wise and noble. No, he must destroy all such logic. God must convince the one who trusted in Christ that they only trust in Christ because God ordained it to be so. Then and only then will that person be truly trusting in Christ and Christ alone. It will not be Christ ”“ AND - their wise choice to believe in Christ, rather, it will be Christ AND Christ alone that they are confident in. Once this work of God is complete in the man whom God determines to save, Jesus WILL be Lord of all. Jesus will be the one entrusted with the task of living righteously on the believer’s behalf. Once this trust in Christ is perfected, the magnificent tree of love will begin to produce its delicious fruit that will fill the belly with rivers of living water.

Sent with love and hope to all who are called by God. May you hear his voice today and recognize that the call is of Him and not of yourself.

Complete In Him,
Jason

Are you a Calvinist?

Jade, I am not being smug, but honestly sincere when I say that I am nothing but a man that was created by God. All matters of religion and righteousness are no longer my concern. They are dealt with entirely by Jesus who is my Lord and head. He can deal with what doctrine is correct and what doctrine in wrong. I defer all those matters to him at this point in my life.

it cannot even be Jesus AND believing in Jesus………… God must convince the one who trusted in Christ that they only trust in Christ because God ordained it to be so.

Where in the Bible is that written??

If you are wanting me to show you one specific verse, I will not be able to help you. However, nearly everything written and established in scripture from Genesis to Revelation is written to convey the truth you just quoted. You might not see it, but it really is there.

Matters of salvation and righteousness MUST be entirely of God, otherwise, the LOVE that God is trying to establish in his people will never be able to manifest itself. Just one work of your flesh, just one wise choice of your own, then the ability to love is forever lost. The moment YOU do a good and wise thing is the moment that you become a judge of man instead of a friend of man.

And Jade, let me honestly apologize. My statement above about not being smug, was honest, but, I recognize that it still has an scent of smugness to it. For that I am truly sorry. I am afraid that no matter how I say it, because it is so contrary to the norm, it is going to sound like I am trying to be superior by my attempt to not be superior. My statement was real, and it is now my answer to all questions about my identity in regards to religious matters. I am not anything. I just am. Jesus deals with all those other matters on my behalf. Titles and identifying as this and that only separate and create division. So, from this point on, I have none. I am just your fellow man. No better than you and no worse. Just a man who was created by God. Matters of religion and righteousness are deferred to Christ who deals with those matters of divisiveness so that I don't have to deal with them myself.

Once again, I am sorry if my words came out wrong and caused offense.

Jade, the subject of election and predestination is not just a side doctrine of scripture, it is more or less the entire purpose of scripture. Now, I can see you take offense at this, and I certainly would too if salvation was really a matter of either suffering forever in hell or living forever in heaven. But that is simply not the goal of scripture. The goal presented in scripture is the goal of God destroying all confidence in the flesh so that men can truly love and rejoice in one another. Those who are saved according to the scripture are going to be a people who have the ability to truly love and rejoice in their fellow man. Those who are lost are those who are going to remain in their pride and know nothing but hate and bitterness as a result.

We have been reading it all wrong. When John writes in first John that those who love their brothers have eternal life and that those who do not love their brothers do not have eternal life, he is not trying to say that you must love your brothers to go to heaven and live for ever, but he is actually trying to say that to possess the love that God wants you to possess is to have eternal life. He is saying that LOVING as God wants us to love IS eternal life in and of itself. And those who hold to their pride, they will remain dead in the misery of their hate that is rooted in their pride. Those who remain in their pride of trusting in themselves will never know the life of love, but only the death of hate.

But this is why election is essential, those who desire to be free of their pride so that they can enjoy the fruit of love, have to understand that they never made a choice that was rooted in their own wisdom. Those who are to enjoy the life of love can only do so when it is understood that it was God who worked in them and led to the place of trusting in Jesus to be their righteousness.

So.....who are elected? All or just some lucky few??

You know what, I can not promise this answer is true, but I am betting that it is. It really has nothing to do with luck. I think God can just tell which of his creation would rather live in unity and equality instead of standing on their mountaintop of superiority. God then arranges the salvation of those who will choose life in such a way to ensure that they cannot deny that it was the work of God. So no luck at all, just a wise God saving those that want to be saved from their works of the flesh in the only way that can be saved, by the power of God alone.

Then show it, in a nutshell. That shouldn't be impossible.

Here is the problem, I can show it, but not in a nutshell. It would take a lot of time to write and explain things to show you how this is true. However, I have little drive to take on a task so large. But here is the truth, even if I could explain it well and make sense of it all for you, that would defeat the purpose of why God chose to hide this in the first place.

You see, Jade, if I made my case with the wisdom of words and you became convinced by my wise argument, you would choose to believe me because it would seem like the "good" and "wise" thing to do. As a result, the message that is designed to destroy our confidence in our own wisdom would ultimately strengthen your confidence instead. So, the entire purpose of God's plan would be destroyed by me breaking it all down in a way that you could understand in your own flesh. If I describe it with plainness and simplicity so that you do not need the help of God (the Holy Spirit) to understand, you will always see your belief as of yourself and not something that is of God. And because of this, you will never be able to cease looking down your nose at those who did not make the same wise choice that you made to believe something that was so clear and obvious.

This truth of scripture can only be understood when we recognize that the LOVE of GOD is the true goal. It is God's purpose for his elect to enjoy the ability to truly LOVE all men and not look down upon them from their mountains of superiority. However, this cannot be attained so long as we believe that WE did anything that was "good," "wise," "righteous," and "prudent." As long as we believe that we have a wisdom and righteousness in ourselves, the hope to love as God loves can never be known.

To love men as God loves men is absolutely the most fantastic thing you can imagine. To walk with the joy of goodwill towards all men is life and joy. Nothing can compare to it. However, this ETERNAL LIFE cannot exist until all pride has been destroyed. We must come to fully separate ourselves from any schism that places us on a pedestal of some kind. All righteous works of our own must be completely crucified with Christ as we choose by the power of God to let Christ deal with all matters of righteous and wisdom on our behalf. Only be separating ourselves fully from the concept of being right and wrong can we cease to judge and despise others who fail to be as right as we perceive ourselves to be.

I can no longer "BE" right, because I have entrusted that burden to Jesus alone. By transferring my worry of righteousness to Jesus, I get to just live and be me. And by living and being me, I no longer live in the misery of my own superiority over others. I can now be friends with those I share this world with instead of a being a judge over them. God in is faithfulness and kindness destroyed my mountain of pride, not so I can go to heaven when I die, but so I can live presently in the heaven of enjoying my fellow man. (Please do not misunderstand me, I believe in a future judgement and a world that is yet to come. However, I believe that the main priority of scripture is to enable me to enjoy the good fruit of God's love. What good is it going to be to go to some future world and not have the fruit of love inside of us? So, this work of LOVE must be finished first.)

When I saw the words ETERNAL LIFE, I immediately remembered the passage in John:

John 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.

Hi Caleb - Though I am not positive as to what you are trying to say by this connection, it is a good connection to make. If you notice, this is the one and only time that the term ETERNAL LIFE is defined in the entire New Testament. And as Jesus defined the term, he did not say that it has any connection to unlimited years of physical life. Instead, he defined the term as a personal experience. According to Jesus, ETERNAL LIFE is not about years of physical life, rather, it is connected to the inward benefit that one will receive and experience when they come to the knowledge of God and Jesus Christ (God's provision of righteousness).

Nothing that is said in the rest of scripture will contradict this idea. Most people see the term ET in the pages of scripture and just assume that it is speaking about literally living for ever and ever because that is what they have been taught to assume. But, if you read the scripture in light of how Jesus defined ET, you will notice that it is always spoken of as something to possess vs something to be gained in a place called heaven.

So, I submit to you that the term "Eternal Life" is a reference to the joy of loving others as God loves others. This love can only be experienced by laying down our works of the flesh that cause us to condemn others. And the only way to ultimately give up our work of the flesh that cause us to condemn others instead of loving others is through Jesus Christ. We can only give up the SIN of TRYING to do the RIGHT thing by trusting Christ to do the right thing on our behalf. It is only through God's provision of righteousness that we have any hope of knowing the joy of loving others. It is only through the provision of Jesus Christ that we can inherit ETERNAL LIFE (the ability to love and rejoice in others).

Hi Jade - I happened to be up late last night and was surprised that you and others were so active on SI at such a late hour. But duh.... I am guessing that the sun is shining bright in Australia right now. Since I don't really know much about time zones, I could be wrong, but I do know that there are at least several hours between us. So, please tell Mr.Sun hello for me and let him know that I miss him and look forward to seeing him again tomorrow :)

In your last post you said:

This truth of scripture can only be understood when we recognize that the LOVE of GOD is the true goal.

Scripture says that the goal is for us to gain Christ. God’s desire for us is to be conformed to the image of Christ and to be filled with the fullness of God in Christ. And of course this is only possible when the love of God is in us and working in us.

Yes, you are correct, the goal is for us to gain Christ. However,I submit for your consideration that the reason that obtaining Christ is the goal is because that is the only way to LOVE and rejoice in all men. So, in my mind, we are saying something similar but different. I believe that the ultimate goal for those called by God is inherit the ability to LOVE and REJOICE in all men. For I submit to you that LOVING others and REJOICING in others IS eternal life. We do not love and rejoice in others so we can receive eternal life, rather, those who are enabled to LOVE as God loves are experiencing eternal life already.

Now, I am confident that we can not know the joyful fruit of God's love until we quit despising each other. And the only way to quit despising each other is to cease from our works that compel us to judge others who are not working as hard as we are. And the only way to cease from our works is to come to a place of having complete confidence that Jesus is living on our behalf doing all that is right and avoiding all that is wrong. Then, by deferring the matter of righteousness to Christ alone, I can quit fussing over the matter of righteousness and give up my efforts to be good and and to avoid wrong. This will then result in me losing the ability to look down on others who are not working as hard as I am working. I will not be able to despise them for not working since I also will not be working. This will enable me to be friends with my fellow man instead of acting as a judge over them. Once I quit judging and start truly loving, I will be enjoying ETERNAL LIFE.

You see obtaining Christ as the final goal in an of itself, but I see obtaining Christ as the first goal because it enables me to experience the second and final goal of living with eternal life.

To me, to obtain Christ means to have a completed and perfected faith in him. We obtain Christ once we become fully confident that he will live righteously for us so that we can finally quit working ... so we can then finally quit judging ... so that we can finally start LOVING. Obtaining Christ is the means to a greater end, not the end of itself (And yes, I won't be too surprised if I get some flack over that statement.).

In all kindness, I encourage you to consider how the writer of first John connects loving the brethren to having life.

1st John 3:14 -15  We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. (15)Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

He does not say that we will be able to one day go to heaven because we love the brethren, but he says that we KNOW that we have past from death to life BECAUSE we love the brethren. From where I stand now, I can clearly see that John is saying that to LOVE the brethren IS to have LIFE. And he then goes on to establish the opposite by saying that those who HATE abide in DEATH. Once again, I am convinced that he is not saying that those who hate are going to go to hell someday because they hate, rather, he is saying that to have HATE instead of LOVE is to be dead already.

And this is why confidence in JESUS and JESUS only is so essential to eternal life. You simply CANNOT be a judge of man and a fried to man at the same time. You CANNOT be a condemner of man and a lover of man at the same time. However, you cannot quit judging others until you lay down all your effort of the flesh. So long as you are trying to be good and do right by your own effort and power, you will judge those who are not working as hard as you. You will despise those who are not working as hard as you. And if you are despising others, you cannot have joy in them or towards them. You cannot have the life of love in you as long as you are a judge.

But, those who come to fully trust in Jesus to deal with all matters of righteousness will be able to forever cease from judging and condemning others. You cannot condemn others for not working hard enough when you also are not working. But the moment you do a work of the flesh, death is sure to follow because HATE is sure to follow.

And this is what Paul meant when he said that the wages of sin is death. Every sin (work of the flesh) we commit will compel us to judge others who are not doing the same work. And with that judgment comes death to our own soul. But, those who quit working because they trust Christ to work for them will have the eternal life of loving others as they are enabled to cease from judging others.

I hope I am making myself clear to those who are reading this. Once again, I am not working to convince anyone of anything, but I do hope that I my idea is being expressed in a manner that is clear.

Take care - Jason