Romans 7.

Purely for the sake of argument, if one concludes that Romans 7 is a description of every born again saints’ spiritual problem and condition, What is Paul’s solution for delivery from this wretched condition ?

One would have to be bound in some teaching to avoid the patent answer provided in Romans 8:1. There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus……blameless as to the law because the righteous conditions including the curses found in that law have been fulfilled and satisfied. NOW having been set free not to walk according to the law but walk according to the Spirit of life. NOW no condemnation.

How are we set free from the law and the sin that rises to life through it….. no condemnation. Freedom from the law, the works of the law for righteousness and the curse of the law as to any unrighteousness, is a "fulfillment” issue by another both as to His doing of it and as to His becoming a curse for the breaking of it. (justification).

The Cure for the Romans 7 condition is faith in Christ’s work on the cross where the law and its mandated curse for breaking of it were satisfied through fulfillment. Why would we try to fulfill something that has been fulfilled for us ?
Galatians 3.

The actual and complete fulfillment of the law is where the freedom that Paul cries out for in Romans 7:24 is found and trusted in. That is what Scripture says plainly. To trust in a second experience to get there is to automatically not trust in the first experience of "no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus” where you were placed at your justification that is experienced simultaneously at new birth, forgiven, cleansed, given a new pure heart, a new spirit, and an indwelling Spirit when Christ Jesus was placed in you, now free from the law and free to walk in the newness of life. No longer married and subject to law but joined to another husband having become one with Him in Spirit in our new spirit given at new birth.

For those who slip back into the law as Christians described in Galatians, Paul says, "seek the second blessing ". Obviously not but that would have been the perfect place to say it. No, instead he says the answer of law keeping is……..What are you doing???? Who has bewitched you????? Remember what happened for you, to you and in you at the first when you first believed and the Spirit did miracles among you. Paul (the author of Romans 7) doesn’t tell them to seek the second blessing. He reminds them in their perilous state of going back to the law to remember their first blessing and to live out the Spirit given in the first blessing by faith that they received when they were justified, cleansed, given new hearts and given the Spirit of life. Go back to the first blessing and start believing in it and living it……,,faith in the finished work, the blood purchased promises and New Covenant secured power of God given through Christ on the cross and His resurrection and your joinder to all that and your uniting to Him in faith in a finished work, not a second work. Go work out what God has from the beginning worked in you and trust that what was worked in you will continue to work in you to will and to do according to what will fully please Him.
Romans 7 is not a pointer to a new or second blessing, it is a call to live out the first and all sufficient one.

Amen!

Brother Robert,

Are you saying that being born again there is not another Baptism that is a free gift for every believer?

"He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
And he said, Into what then were ye baptized? And they said, Into John's baptism.
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. sion
And when they heard this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus.
And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied,” (Acts 19;2-6).

I was led to speak strictly to the Romans 7 issue.

"The curse of much modern religion is that it makes us so desperately interested in ourselves, so overweeningly concerned about our own whiteness. Jesus Christ was absolutely interested in God, and the saint is to be a simple, unaffected, natural human being in dwelt by the Spirit of God. If the saint is paying attention to the Source, Jesus Christ, out of him and unconsciously to him are flowing the rivers of living water wherever he goes (John 7:37-39). Men are either getting better or worse because of us.” -Oswald Chambers

"Sin dwells in human nature, but the Bible makes it very clear that it is an abnormal thing, it has no right there, it does not belong to human nature as God designed it. Sin has come into human nature and perverted and twisted it. The Redemption of God through our Lord Jesus Christ delivers human nature from sin, and then begins the possibility of the manifestation of the life of Jesus in our mortal flesh. We are saved by God’s grace, but, thank God, we have something to do. We must take care to meet God’s supernatural work of grace by our human obedience.” -Oswald Chambers

"The Sermon on the Mount is a statement of the life we will live when the Holy Spirit is getting His way with us.” -Oswald Chambers

"We have to nourish the life of the Son of God in us, and we do it by obedience, that is, by bringing our natural life into accordance with His life and transforming it into a spiritual life.” -Oswald Chambers

Over the course of the last year or so I have purposefully and violently placed my theology on the cross to see what raises to life. It's been interesting.

I've since realized that the most scriptural proponents of entire sanctification equated the teaching with the new birth, effectively rendering it the entry to the kingdom of God. I believe Chambers to be, easily, the most profound and scriptural writer outside of the Bible, and he, as well as brother Robert, in the absurd timing of the Lord, have effectively rendered my previous understanding of second blessing holiness ineffective.

I spent the day reading through all of the writing of John the apostle, rereading the book "The Psychology of Redemption" by Chambers for the second time in 2 days, and have been thoroughly slain theologically. Chambers speaks of quickening, or an awakening that leads to the new birth. Many equate this with salvation and subsequently sanctification - I did for 20 years.

I think I may have been mistaken.

While I still do not hold to a process of sanctification (rather a growth in grace and knowledge, a nourishing and maturing of Christ in us, etc.), I am now not convinced that their are 2 distinct works in every Christian experience -

Just wanted to throw that out there for those of you that have use my words to cause division and bring a party spirit to many threads in the past few weeks.

//To trust in a second experience to get there is to automatically not trust in the first experience of "no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus” where you were placed at your justification that is experienced simultaneously at new birth, forgiven, cleansed, given a new pure heart, a new spirit, and an indwelling Spirit when Christ Jesus was placed in you, now free from the law and free to walk in the newness of life. No longer married and subject to law but joined to another husband having become one with Him in Spirit in our new spirit given at new birth.//

We are not to trust in a second experience, but in Christ who delivered us on the cross. However just about all of us do not understand what this means, and without consenting to joint crucifixion, at that point, we carry on serving in the flesh or rather in our own strength.

They say that during revival, it does happen sometimes soon after coming for forgiveness whereby some are entirely sanctified. So why, if those who have not consented to the crucifixion of the old man and been delivered, did they have that problem of Romans 7? Why were they not walking in the Spirit and life? Why did they not have the ability to walk as He walked?

It is easy, they were not in the Spirit because they had not 'reckoned' they were dead to sin. They had that position gained for them but they had not yet been delivered. It was not yet in force so something further was required and the ECF's called it illumination which is a revelation from God not a reasoning of the flesh.

ES-

Thanks for all the OC quotes. I agree with your assessment of him, but I also find him sometimes difficult to understand due to his depth. I sure would have liked the opportunity to sit down with him and ask him about 1000 questions. Sadly he was only 43 when he died.

I am busy reading now 'The Psychology of Redemption' and finding it a good read, especially as he agrees with me about the Temptation of Christ!

He also says that baptism of the Spirit is born again into the kingdom of God. YES!

\t
"I am busy reading now 'The Psychology of Redemption' and finding it a good read, especially as he agrees with me about the Temptation of Christ!"

So you like Chambers because he agrees with you. You ought to like him because he agrees with the Word of God. I don’t believe that Chamber’s ever said that Jesus was never tempted. I have several of his books, and Chambers even said that sanctification was both instantaneous and a process.

"In the process of sanctification, the Spirit of God will strip me down until there is nothing left but myself, and that is the place of death. Am I willing to be myself and nothing more? "
"My Utmost For His Highest”

I read him many years ago and checked him out with scripture. I had just forgotten how good he is. He never said Jesus was not tempted but he did not say by sin.

Of course it is a process and an event.

Duplicate

"I read him many years ago and checked him out with scripture. I had just forgotten how good he is. He never said Jesus was not tempted but he did not say by sin.”

Sister, you are not making any sense at all, if the devil was not tempting Jesus to sin, then what was he tempting him to do, please explain yourself.

Well seeing as you will not pay a few pence for the master to speak on this, I will briefly say that He was tempted to obey God according to reason.

Brenda said:
"I will briefly say that He was tempted to obey God according to reason."

Make no mistake dear sister, fulfilling Gods will via shortcut, our own way, or Satans way, is sin. Albeit not "transgression of the law" - but "whatsoever is not of faith is sin". Trying to do Gods will our way is not faith in Gods way, will or provision, and therefore sin.

Oh well I did not explain it properly and am not willing to stop reading on kindle to go back atm. You should know the answer as you have the book.

Brother Evan,

I know that you have read many of Oswald Chambers books and have quoted from him frequently. Have you read any of Watchman Nee’s books? One brother has said that Oswald Chambers and Watchman Nee were in agreement on many of there teachings. I have read many of Watchman Nee’s books. The first one "Sit, Walk, and Stand” around 50 years ago.

OK here goes: The devil does not tempt us to do wrong things; he tries to make us lose what God has put in us by regeneration p 35

The devils attack is the same as was in our Lord; viz to do God's will our own way p36

That is to say, to work from our instinct or sanctified reason which is not sin itself, but leads directly to sin and a fall from grace. All must come from the inspiration of the Spirit.

I believe that WN was Keswick but OC was more traditional holiness teaching. He did not teach or speak with tongues whereas WN approved it?

Mike,

I've read a ton of Watchman Nee actually - in the past few months I've probably 10 of his books. I highly recommend:

The Spiritual Man
Let us pray (this book revolutionized my prayer life)
Normal Christian life
Sit, Walk, Stand
The latent power of the soul
Christ, the sum of all spiritual things
Love not the world (possibly my favorite of his writings)

Highly recommended:

The Spiritual Man
Let us pray (this book revolutionized my prayer life)
Normal Christian life
Sit, Walk, Stand
The latent power of the soul
Christ, the sum of all spiritual things
Love not the world (possibly my favorite of his writings)

I have got them all. What do you think about T. Austin Sparks?
Watchman Nee has quoted from Brother Sparks writings often.