No guilt pastors???

This is the second time I’ve heard a pastor say this as of resent; one even said it six time during the course of his sermon.“I don’t want to make anyone feel guilty. What good could come out of that?”What? How is someone suppose to come to repentance without feeling guilty? Is their even such a thing as repentance without any feeling of guilt? How could a pastor say such a thing?I also listened to a sermon by Dave Wilkerson recently where he said. “I hope every one who hears this feels guilty and condemned so that they may be brought to repentance.” Isn’t this the type of thing pastors should be saying?In my opinion if a pastor says such a thing (I don’t want to make anyone feel guilty) it is a clear sign that he is a wolf and a false teacher. What does everyone else think? Could a pastor actually say such a thing and be real at the same time? Isn’t a pastor who uses such phases just give a false sense of repentance and/or a false sense of security, thus preach a false gospel and a false Jesus?

2Pe 3:15 and regard the patience of our Lord {as} salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you,2Pe 3:16 as also in all {his} letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as {they do} also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.2Pe 3:17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness,2Pe 3:18 but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him {be} the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

In my opinion if a pastor says such a thing (I don’t want to make anyone feel guilty) it is a clear sign that he is a wolf and a false teacher. What does everyone else think?Since you asked,No I don't think this simple test is sufficient to pass judgement. Not every pastor who says "I don't want to make you feel guilty" is a wolf. His preaching may not meet your approval...but to call him a wolf is unwarranted.Make no mistake about it...wolves are real and they like the taste of sheep. However I don't think we can ever pass judgement on simple quotations alone! Don't you think a wolf can study theology too and preach a sermon that will meet your approval? Real wolves manifest themselves by their whole fruit...not just their preaching words brother....There are more and more so-called "discernment ministries" popping up all the time. I don't think God has asked us to track wolves and hunt them down. In fact, I don't think wolf hunting is a valid ministry in the least. We should be reluctant to cry wolf. Otherwise we won't have any credibility when we encounter the real thing.Just my experience with the subject.MC

Compton,Are you stating that you believe it is acceptable to preach repentance without guilt? That you cannot feel guilty and still come to repentance. If this is what you are implying, you are welcome to your own opinion. I just don’t see it in Scripture. I just wanted to clarify your post.

Without a sense of guilt for our transgressions and rebelion against God--we don't even understand the importance of reconcling with Him and we don't see the importance of the blood of Our Jesus nor do we understand having our sins forgiven. "Godly Sorrow works repentence". Perhaps he was speaking of guilt not for past sins that have been confessed and repented and are forgiven. just a thought.

sb1175,I wasn't casting judgment on Compons response. I was just asking him to clarify what he thinks about repentance and guilt. I wanted clarification so that I would not pass judgment without cause. Once I get clarification I can answer other things written in his post more accurately.

inotof,you wrote:"Perhaps he was speaking of guilt not for past sins that have been confessed and repented and are forgiven. just a thought."If that was the case the statement would be fine. But the fact is one preacher was talking specifically about greed and covetousness among Christians, and the other about Christians involved in adultery and sexual sin. The statement is used like this. If I knew you were stealing from your work and I said to you. “Brother stealing even from you work is sin, but I don’t want to make you feel guilty. So you should repent and stop stealing”

Feeling sorry and feeling guilty are one in the same. If you do not feel guilty - you do not feel sorry - if you do not feel sorry - you have not repented.You can not repent for something you don't feel guilty or sorry for.

Are you stating that you believe it is acceptable to preach repentance without guilt?... I just wanted to clarify your post.Patrick,Apologies for my delay in responding...Thanks for asking for clarity. I appreciate that much. No, I did not mean to state that repentance could be made without the need for admission of guilt. Afterall Paul showed us how the Law was a teacher that takes us to Christ. Certainly the knowledge and conviction of our sin, and the recognition that we stand guilty as charged by God, precedes our repentance and turning from sin. You and I are on the same page here I think.However, your original question was this:In my opinion if a pastor says such a thing (I don’t want to make anyone feel guilty) it is a clear sign that he is a wolf and a false teacher. What does everyone else think?The reason I said no was because I thought your test was too simple. I wasn't endorsing what the pastor was saying, but neither could I condemn him as a wolf based solely on the testimony you shared. Perhaps, from your own personal experience with these pastors there is additional information that you were sparing to be discreet on their behalf.So, it seems to me we are talking about two different issues here. 1) How to discern a wolf in sheep’s clothing2) The importance of preaching guilt in the message of repentanceMy initial answer was addressing the first issue, which I thought was your primary question. In addition to my answer, I offered the opinion that we should not be too quick to denounce our pastors, (and each other), as wolves and false teachers.Hopefully, this clarifies my first post brother. For what it's worth, I appreciate and admire your uncompromising heart on these matters.MC

Compton,That you for your clarification. I do agree that the test presented in my post was possible to simple. But I think such statements should raise a red flag and alarm bells. We should then be extra careful and discerning about the teaching of such a man. And we should examine them further to make it was not some slip of the tongue or rare off the wall statement (we are all guilty of this at sometime or another in our lives)Thanks for your input. I will continue to attend this Pastors church on a regular basis so that I can further examine his teachings and then confront him if necessary.

dorcas,I can't see how one can come to Biblical repentance without feeling guilty. It is true that guilt is a feeling or emotion, and even unemotional people feel guilty for their sins when they come to repentance. I do agree that feelings of guilt alone are not the only test of true repentance. One must also turn from their sins and stop their sinful behavior if they are truly repentant. But I think that both (feeling guilty and turning from sin) are required for true repentance. I would think that some one who turns from their sins but has no feeling of guilt, conviction or remorse for what they have done would just be a legalist or Pharisee. Right?If either part is removed, (i.e. repentance without turning from sin or repentance with no guilt) you have not truly repented.If anyone disagree I would like to hear why.

A person has to be earnest and honest in a repentence. The level of feeling of sorrow for what they did may vary, but to determine anything spiritual by feeling alone is dangerous. Feeling is a response to emotions. So many people seek God looking for a feeling as a sign of fulfillment. There has to be remorse present, but please be careful about judging anything spiritual by feeling alone.I want to add one more thing. I am not saying coming to the realization that a person is guilty is not necessary it is. But brokenness isnt just a feeling, it is a state of mind and spirit. A person can feel one thing and not be in the right spirit. I am just saying be careful by judging remorse and brokenness by feeling in itself.

Thanks Johny - I agree.

Quote:"However, I understand your concern that a pastor should not feel guilty about the feelings of guilt in his listeners, rather, he should expect them and be at ease with this situation. Further, if the pastor himself is feeling guilty and the cause is unresolved with God, he may be projecting his discomfort on to his congregation." GREAT POINT!!! I appreciate the discussion.Please don’t get me wrong - I am not accusing you of being or calling you a legalist or a Pharisee, but was rather posing a question.I am not necessarily disagreeing with your point. I do not feel that the feeling of guilt for ones sins is the only requirement of repentance, just one of the necessary ingriedience. I am sure that there are many who have been pricked to heart by the Holy Spirit and have felt guilty, but have shrugged it off in the end and went right on sinning. (I have done this very same thing in the past) I am also sure that other have tried to live by the letter of the law with no guilt for past sins in some legalistic manner.My understanding is that one must 1. feel guilty, 2. repent, and 3. turn from their sin in order for repentance to occur. I will study the Scriptures further on this matter and pray. If you have any Scriptures for my consideration please let me know.Thanks,

I think some very good scriptures to test oneself on repentence... whether a person is fulfilling true repentence.. is James 4:5-10. Even though it may not him on the actual word repentence, it goes through the steps required for answer prayer which takes care of repentence.All the verses go through necessary conditions. Just speaking on the prospect of guilt and feeling which has been kind of the point of discussion as of late look at verse 9."Be afflicted, and morun, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness."People may become confused with what they are feeling or their feelings may be misguided. A person may feel happy, but a person can BE joyful in the Lord. A person may feel afflicted, but BE afflicted. It has to be a state of submission and sense of unworthiness, which goes past the point of just feeling.The discussion has been very good, please no one get offended. Discussion makes us analyze and go to the Lord in prayer for answers.