Controversial Men

First of all, let me say Welcome to all the new members. I have been inactive here for a little while now. I hope to get active again in the discussion forums real soon. I pray that you will be blessed by the fellowship here.I believe there are some men of God out there who are still capable of teaching biblical truth, even though some of the methods and manifestations that are upheld in their meetings may cause some questions. John Bevere is a good example to me of such a man. I think he's a very good teacher, even though I don't approve of most of the preachers he hangs around with.Another one who might fall into that category would be Rod Parsley. I love his enthusiasm in preaching, but I don't necessarily agree with the way he lays hands on people.I don't agree with the Brownsville movement at all, but I would never speak an outright personal attack against any minister of the gospel who I thought was wrong. Even when David KNEW Saul was wrong, he would not lift a hand against that one who previously had been annointed by God, even after God had rejected him.I've heard several reports about Benny Hinn repenting publically for being associated with Toronto and Brownsville, but then going back and having continued association with them. I think he's a bit overboard on the signs and wonders, but I think he really loves people, which is the number one quality I believe a minister should have.I've seen some pretty messed up stuff lately, even in my own denomination. But I fear the enemy is trying to use that to discourage people from believing the real thing and trying to keep people critical so they won't trust men of God at all. We just need to keep a balanced biblical view of things and stay in prayer about it all.

We must also remember that no person is "anointed" in and of themselves. In the Old Testament, the anointed kings and priests were anointed as shadows of Christ to come (it is also important to note the general rule that prophets were not "anointed"). Christ is the only person who is anointed of God; Christ actually means "anointed one."Those who claim to be anointed of themselves in this age are fulfilling Jesus' prophecy that many would come saying, "I am the Christ" and "false Christs and false prophets will arise and deceive many." These are men who claim to be anointed ("christ") in a position above the rest of the body -- as heads of the body, which Christ's place. All in the Body of Christ have received his anointing, but in the way it is described in the Psalm: "oil upon the head, coming down upon the beard ... even upon the edge of his robes." Also remember that EVERYONE in the Body is a partaker of this anointing. Those who claim that they should receive "hands-off" treatment on the basis of "touch not my anointed" are misleading the people. This phrase is better understood as not harming (or, as Paul said, "biting and devouring") fellow members of the Body. We dare not lift a hand against Christ, but we must be careful and firm in dealing with false teaching or practice within the Body, for this will harm the Body immensely.

Yes, I agreee that a minister who claims they should be above being rebuked is misleading people. The reactions of the leaders of some of the more controversial revival movements only shows that they are not obeying the gospel in prayerfully considering criticism from others in the body.We shouldn't bite and devour one another but we should always test the spirits and not believe everything that appears spiritual. But they say we're trying to quench the spirit if we question anything that happens in their churches.

I should also mention for the sake of balance that there is to be authority in the Church -- but this authority IS Christ and no one else. His authority is seen in all who are obedient. Those who are most obedient and have been obedient for a long time have the most authority (elders); their authority is synonymous with the obedient service they are performing in the Body.Moses is a great example of this in Numbers; he repeats several times that he wasn't doing anything because he wanted to but was only doing what God told him to do. In addition, what God had told him to do was to serve the people. This is a tremendous example of true biblical authority: serving the people, not out of one's own desires or heart, but by the will of God and in HIS authority.If that is the case, the authority will be clear (for God's authority is clear) and the teaching will be pure, because the teaching is from God himself. Again, it is not anointing that separates those who would be leaders in the body (for all are anointed), but obedience and service.

A quick intro here. New to the site, and what a great site this is! This is a topic that is a very constant irritation to me as I came through a lot of this type of teaching.We are called to subject all teaching to the authority of scripture.I am frankly embarrassed by the loose and flipitant way that these men handle the Word of God.We have lost a true fear of the Lord, have become Biblically iliterate and to our shame have become complacent in exposing the false prophets and heritics of our time.Benny Hinn, Creeflo Dollar, Kenneth Copeland,this "word of faith" and "prosperity gospel", "slain in the spirit" and other so called manifestations of the spirit (barking like dogs, etc.)all are bringing reproach to cause of Christ.What must it look like to an unbeliever that stumbles across TBN and thinks, this is what a "Christian" is?.Benny Hinn is a false prophet. Period. The homosexuals he proclaimed would all be wiped out by fire, certainly are still amongst us (and need God's grace like the rest of us) Jesus still has not made the physical apperance on his platform that Benny stated would happen (I believe about two years ago now)and on and on it goes, much more could be said. Early on in my Christian walk I was caught up in all this stuff, even driving 300 some odd miles to L.A. to see Benny Hinn. We eventually left our church as a result of the similiar (for lack of a better word) "theology" and associations with these men and others. I cannot understate the fallout from all of this.I almost left the faith because of it.Personally, I have nothing against any of these men, since I don't know them, but I would still like to ring their necks!Bottom line: These men are leading many astray, giving them false hope's and empty promises. What happens when the trials come? When the prosperity dosen't come pouring in? When their loved ones don't get their healing? OR worse yet, they are made to feel guilty for their lack of Faith? " For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themsevles teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables." 2 Tm 4: 3,4 crsschk

The church where I was discipled teaches and practices delegated authority as outlined in Exodus chapter 18. The text they use for this class is Spiritual Authority by Watchman Nee.I believe there is to be authority in the church and that disregard for delegated authority is an offense to God Himself.Jethro outlined a plan for delegated authority to Moses, which helped him to bear the burden of ministering to God's people. I believe that it is the anointing that separates those who would be leaders in the body, not individual skills or talents. Those who are anointed will receive from God the desire to be obedient and to serve God's people from a humble heart.And hopefully as God raises up faithful leaders, they will be examples of what good Christian leadership should be to help combat some of the crazy stuff that's been going on in the church lately.

TaKa,Unfortunately, when I see "delegated authority" taught, 99% of the time it is in line with the teachings of the old Shepherding Movement, which is unbiblical.Any leadership that is based upon titles or position is unbiblical. That is plain and simple. Matthew 23 should take care of any questions there.As for the anointing being the thing that separates leaders, as I pointed out below, no leader possesses an anointing that anyone else in the body does not have. If that is the case, it is not the anointing found in Christ.Again, the principle of leadership is service. Anyone who teaches that "submission" entails obedience or service to authority has brought the world's methods into the Church. That teaching is better left to the boardroom of a corporation or to Amway. Biblical submission is from every Christian to every other Christian and actually involves allowing another to serve. Biblical service is itself leadership and authority -- it is not the same as worldly leadership or authority, which consists of giving directives.

Exactly, Greg. If we all operate according to the gifts God manifests through us and serve one another completely, we become more dependent on one another. It is a brotherhood, not a heirarchy.