The bible is not "the Word"

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beenblake Aug 22, 2005

Why is the bible called, the "Word of God" or "God's Word"? Where in the bible does it say that scripture is the word of God?John 1: 1 - 14 (KJV) 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended F1 it not. 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power F2 to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. The scriptures above, John 1:1-14, make it very clear that the Word is referencing Jesus. God's Word is Jesus. And so, why do people call and reference the bible as "God's Word" when that is clearly not what the bible says?

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InTheLight Aug 22, 2005

Where in the bible does it say that scripture is the word of God?God, who at many times and in many ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, by whom also He made the worlds, (Heb 1:1-2)God "spoke" in time past by the prophets, therefore those writings could accurately be said to be "God's word". Of course, we are also incredibly blessed and privledged to have the complete revelation in the "Living Word", Jesus Christ.In Christ,Ron

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philologos Aug 22, 2005

I don't dispute that Christ is the Word of God, however...“If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;” (John 10:35, KJVS) This clearly equates the scripture with the 'word of God'.God has revealed Himself in... creation: “The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.” (Psa. 19:1-2, KJVS) but this revelation was always incomplete and is now severly damaged.the scriptures: see the verse above. This revelation is perfect but incomplete.Christ Himself: the verses you quoted and many another. This revelation is perfect and complete. He is God's last word.

sermonindex Aug 22, 2005

The scriptures above, John 1:1-14, make it very clear that the Word is referencing Jesus. God's Word is Jesus. And so, why do people call and reference the bible as "God's Word" when that is clearly not what the bible says?Really? Are you sure?Luk 3:2b ...the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.Luk 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God. Luk 5:1 And it came to pass, that, as the people pressed upon him to hear the word of God, he stood by the lake of Gennesaret,Luk 8:11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.Luk 11:28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it. Act 4:31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.Act 6:2 Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables. Act 13:5 And when they were at Salamis, they preached the word of God in the synagogues of the Jews: and they had also John to their minister.Act 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.Rom. 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.2Co 2:17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.2Co 4:2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.1Th 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.2Ti 2:15 Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Shall I continue, Blake? I'm not sure what your point or intent is with this thread... but I must say that your exegesis is a tad bit scarey. Not trying to put you down, just saying I think you need to study things a little more closely before you make declarations like that.Krispy

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beenblake Aug 22, 2005

In none of the scriptures you listed does it claim scripture, law, or the bible is the "word of God."Luk 3:2b ...the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.The Holy Spirit came unto John. He didn't find a bible in the wilderness.Luk 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God. Jesus is speaking of the Holy Spirit. Jesus gives life through the Spirit. Man cannot live by bread which satisfies the flesh. Man must also seek after the Spirit and live by the Spirit. Luk 5:1 And it came to pass, that, as the people pressed upon him to hear the word of God, he stood by the lake of Gennesaret,Again, this is the Holy Spirit speaking. He wasn't reading a bible.Luk 8:11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.Again, this is speaking of the Holy Spirit. Luk 11:28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it. Again, this is speaking of the Holy Spirit. Act 4:31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.Again, this is speaking of the Holy Spirit. It even says, "they were filled with the Holy Ghost and spake the word of God."Act 6:2 Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables. This is speaking of Jesus. They were basically saying in this verse, "We should not stop preaching the word of God and serve people food at their tables."Act 13:5 And when they were at Salamis, they preached the word of God in the synagogues of the Jews: and they had also John to their minister.Preaching of the Holy Spirit.Act 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.Preaching of the Holy Spirit.Rom. 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.Holy Spirit.2Co 2:17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.Holy Spirit.2Co 4:2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.Holy Spirit.1Th 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.Holy Spirit.2Ti 2:15 Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. Holy Spirit. (Jesus is truth. There is no truth other than Jesus.)Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. This is most certainly the Holy Spirit...."a discerner of thought and intent of the heart." How can a bible do that? "Not trying to put you down, just saying I think you need to study things a little more closely before you make declarations like that." I appreciate the encouragement. I have studied and prayed about this. Blake

sermonindex Aug 22, 2005

I call the bible the "SCRIPTURES" if you do a word search on this then you will see that the Bible calls instead Scriptures.I know one translation that says: "Holy Scriptures"

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Joshua99 Aug 22, 2005

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heartI believe Krispy has it as clear as it can be said. Why are you having a conflict with the Word of God?

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saved_matt Aug 22, 2005

philologosthe scriptures: see the verse above. This revelation is perfect but incomplete.from the previous posts by you that I've read i would be very interested if you could expand on this, not having a go, just willing to learn.God blessmatt

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Kadmiel Aug 23, 2005

KrispyWow, excellent response! Talk about a fervent student of "God's Word"! It don't get more simple then what you wrote. Awesome! :-?

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Kadmiel Aug 23, 2005

BlakeI appreciate the encouragement. I have studied and prayed about this. Pray more till you get it right. :-)

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ellie Aug 23, 2005

Hi,I hope that the following, will be of help to you beenblakeThe Bible, that is the written Word of the one true God. The word "Bible" means "the books." The Bible is one volume that consists of 66 separate books.The word "Scripture" is also used to refer to God's Word. This word comes from a Latin word which means "writing." When the word "Scripture" is used with a capital "S" it means the sacred writings of the one true God. The word "Bible" is not used in the Bible. It is a word selected by men as a title for all of God's WordsThe Bible is the written Word of God. He inspired the words in the Bible and used approximately 40 different men to write down His words. These men wrote over a period of 1500 years. The perfect agreement of these writers is one proof that they were all guided, by a single author. That author was God.Hope this helps, to answer some of your questions.elliebeenblake wrote:Why is the bible called, the "Word of God" or "God's Word"? Where in the bible does it say that scripture is the word of God?John 1: 1 - 14 (KJV) 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended F1 it not. 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power F2 to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. The scriptures above, John 1:1-14, make it very clear that the Word is referencing Jesus. God's Word is Jesus. And so, why do people call and reference the bible as "God's Word" when that is clearly not what the bible says?

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beenblake Aug 23, 2005

Quote: "Pray more till you get it right."The bible does not say anywhere that "scripture" or "Scripture" or is the word of God. If I am wrong, then show me and prove me wrong.

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beenblake Aug 23, 2005

Dear Ellie, Thank you for sharing. That was informative. In addition, something to think about:The bible is inspired by God. To say something is inspired by God and written by God are two different things.For example, let's say that I need to write a letter to my dear friend Krispy. In order to do so, I call upon my secretary to write the letter. I tell her the message I wish to convey. My secretary then writes the letter using his own words.The letter has been inspired by me. It also conveys the message I wish it to convey. However, it is not a word for word record from my mouth. I did not write the letter, however, it was inspired by me. The bible was written by men and inspired by God. I do not disagree with this. However, the bible was not written word for word by God. A message from God was embedded in the text. That message, however, has been documented by men. This means that the message of God is written in different ways. Different writers convey the same message in different ways (and in different languages).With that said, this brings us even farther from calling the bible "God's Word." So why do we?

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beenblake Aug 23, 2005

Dear Joshua99,I am not having a conflict with the Word of God.Hebrews 4:12-13 (KJV)12 For the word of God is full of living power. It is sharper than the sharpest knife, cutting deep into our innermost thoughts and desires. It exposes us for what we really are. 13 Nothing in all creation can hide from him. Everything is naked and exposed before his eyes. This is the God to whom we must explain all that we have done. The following verse says "him." It continues to say "This is the God..." Hebrews 4:12 is referring to the Holy Spirit when it says "the word of God". The bible is very clear. Am I missing something?

M

MrBillPro Aug 23, 2005

beenblake wrote:The bible is inspired by God. To say something is inspired by God and written by God are two different things.No one said God wrote the word I am sure we all agree on that, the prophets wrote it, but God spoke the words to be written they were his secretary so to speak, but it was Gods words so it would be the words of God this is what the Bible is the words of God it has never claimed to be anything else, I really don't understand why your having such a hard time understanding this. :-(

sermonindex Aug 23, 2005

Hi,I think the more important question Blake, is do you feel the Scriptures that we now have are inerrant ?Jesus requested that we follow Him, etc. etc. and Paul said, "to study to show thyself approved ...... "Study what ? And how are we to know how to follow Jesus, without The Book.We have to decide whether we "believe" the words in it.If we feel it's not the Word of God or "Scripture" (same meaning), then what do we follow ?If you want to search more on your own, type in " Inerrancy of Scripture " into your search engine or the History, of how God miraculously preserved His Words for thousands of years etc..But most importantly, resolve the inerrancy issue in your mind first. Elsewise, from what other source can we learn about God and what He requires of us ?Jesus used "Scripture", even to fight off Satan ... so what are we to use ?Just one site you could look at, but I'd still recommend you do that Search engine search.http://www.ancientdays.net/JCreScripture.htmGo with God.Annie

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letsgetbusy Aug 23, 2005

The Father speaks things into creation. The Son is the Word that the Father has uttered. The Holy Ghost is the living breath that carries the Word. To understand why the Bible is the Word of God, you must understand that when the concepts given to us by God are spoken, the words spoken are literally spirit. Not just spiritual, but spirit. Those inspired words of Scripture are literally words of the Almighty God. Thus it is the Word of God. The Father is God, the Word is God, the Holy Ghost is God. When we preach the gospel, we are a vessel of the Holy Ghost, allowing the Word to move through us.So my take is that it is one of those points that must be understood spiritually, not by man's reason. We don't win souls by putting words in a certain order, any heathen can do that. We win souls because the Word is being moved through us.

sermonindex Aug 23, 2005

I believe God breathed every word of the Bible. The phrophets and the Apostles wrote exactly what God wanted to say... therefore the scriptures are the very words of God. It just isnt that hard to understand.Krispy

sermonindex Aug 23, 2005

Exodus 17:14And the LORD said unto Moses, Write this for a memorial in a book, and rehearse it in the ears of Joshua: for I will utterly put out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven. Exodus 34:27 And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel. Esther 8:8 Write ye also for the Jews, as it liketh you, in the king's name, and seal it with the king's ring: for the writing which is written in the king's name, and sealed with the king's ring, may no man reverse. Jeremiah 30:2 Thus speaketh the LORD God of Israel, saying, Write thee all the words that I have spoken unto thee in a book. Habakkuk 2:2 And the LORD answered me, and said, Write the vision, and make it plain upon tables, that he may run that readeth it.Revelation 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter; Revelation 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed [are] the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them. Revelation 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God. Revelation 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. Beenblake,Don't these verses kinda undermine the idea that God was only distantly involved in exactly what was being recorded in what we now call scripture?You said you are willing to be convinced otherwise. Only the Holy Spirit can do this. When He does, will you say afterwards that you were 'inspired' by God to believe His word?Or will you say 'God spoke to me by His Spirit?'I wonder. Will you be as rigorous with yourself, intellectually, as you are pressing the contributors to this thread? ;-) I do hope so. Here are 4 verses from the New Testament, which strongly (well, according to your own assessment of Jesus as the Word of God - with which, of course, I agree) connect Him to the Old Testament words from God, even though He was not yet Incarnate. He appears in the Old Testament often enough, for His presence there to be undeniable. I think you'll agree. What do you say?Revelation 1:1, 2 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. Revelation 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Revelation 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

sermonindex Aug 23, 2005

Lastly.John 2122 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what to thee? follow thou me.23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what to thee? 24 This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true. 25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen. Revelation 2214 Blessed they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without - dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. 16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, the bright and morning star. And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. 18 For I [Jesus] testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: and if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and the things which are written in this book. He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. 21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen. Anyone takes to themself a fatal burden, by altering the written word(s) of God in any way. Hebrews 12:9Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live?