Let us stop talking about revival in America

It sounds pious to speak about 'a revival for America' - but what then ?Do we expect when the Lord returns the whole world will be in chaos - and dear ole america will be a lovely burning torch for Jesus ??is that our expectation ?we should grow out of that, if so - for it denies Scripturedo we think we'll see a "revival in america" that will last until He returns ?no revivals lastthe human condition ever remains the same"Do you see all these things?" he asked. "I tell you the truth, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down." : matt 24.2read that propheticallydo we expect to forestall, by our praying for revival all that the Lord said :But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them. They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over weak-willed women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth. : 2 tim 3or:At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, : matt 24are we battling politically or praying piously to avert the increase of wickedness spoken of by our Christ ? what then ?either we want Him not to return .. or we want Him to return to a 'moral America'how confused we are"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. how much futile energy american christians, most especially, waste - when they seek by prayer or political action to forestall all thisand yet - we say we are bible believers!How many times the Lord said in His recorded words --- these things must happenMust

So you think revival will not occur because of those prophecies? Or that revival will delay the coming of the Lord? :-?

"Do you see all these things?" he asked. "I tell you the truth, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down." : matt 24.2read that propheticallyMat 24:2 - There shall not be left here one stone upon another -At the time this was spoken, no event was more improbable than this. The temple was vast, rich, splendid. It was the pride of the nation, and the nation was at peace. Yet in the short space of 40 years all this was accomplished exactly. Jerusalem was taken by the Roman armies, under the command of Titus, 70 a.d. The account of the siege and destruction of the city is left us by Josephus, a historian of undoubted veracity and singular fidelity. He was a Jewish priest. In the wars of which he gives an account, he fell into the hands of the Romans, and remained with them during the siege and destruction of the city. Being a Jew, he would of course say nothing designed to confirm the prophecies of Jesus Christ; yet his whole history appears almost like a running commentary on these predictions respecting the destruction of the temple. The following particulars are given on his authority:After the city was taken, Josephus says that Titus “gave orders that they should now “demolish the whole city and temple,” except three towers, which he reserved standing. But for the rest of the wall, it was laid so completely even with the ground by those who “dug it up from the foundation,” that there was nothing left to make those believe who came hither that it had ever been inhabited.” Maimonides, a Jewish writer, has also recorded that “Terentius Rufus, an officer in the army of Titus, with a plowshare tore up the foundations of the temple, that the prophecy might be fulfilled, ‘Zion shall be plowed as a field,’” Mic_3:12. This was all done by the direction of divine Providence. Titus was desirous of preserving the temple, and frequently sent Josephus to the Jews to induce them to surrender and save the temple and city. But the prediction of the Saviour had gone forth, and, notwithstanding the wish of the Roman general, the temple was to be destroyed. The Jews themselves first set fire to the porticoes of the temple. One of the Roman soldiers, without any command, threw a burning firebrand into the golden window, and soon the temple was in flames. Titus gave orders to extinguish the fire; but, amid the tumult, none of the orders were obeyed. The soldiers pressed to the temple, and neither fear nor entreaties, nor stripes could restrain them. Their hatred of the Jews urged them on to the work of destruction, and thus, says Josephus, the temple was burned against the will of Caesar. - Jewish Wars, b. 6 chapter 4, section 5-7.

Hi Baruch_48...!I know that you must mean well, but your post might be just a little presumptuous or even "misguided." Of course we should pray! We should pray for our lives, our families, our Churches, and our nations. If we truly love our families and neighbors, we should pray for the morality of this nation (even if it is hypocritical or insincere in nature). We should pray without ceasing! I may be wrong, but from the tone of your post, it seems as if you don't care if (or even want for) America to become more ungodly. It seems that you may even believe that since the end is inevitable, we might as well just "let it happen." That will not hasten the Lord's return. It will just hasten the kingdom of darkness. There are many things written in the Word that must happen. But that doesn't mean that we should just sit back and let those things happen. In fact, there is a world that is going to grow worse and worse -- and eventually accept the "abomination that causes desolation", but should I stop preaching and teaching the truth because of that? Or course not! We should continue to "go ye therefore into all the world" -- including the prisons, hospitals, and slums. Just because men are destined to go to Hell does not mean we should take all means to prevent this from happening. If you really want to see ungodliness and hypocrisy in government, I suggest that you take some time to visit many other nations. In many nations, believers lose their life for the cause of Christ. Voice of the Martyrs sends out a map every year that shows where persecution still exists today (real persecution, not just where Christians are just "made fun of").I do not know if America will be in a "revival" before the Lord returns. But I will pray for a great move of God anyway. I will pray that it happens where I live. I will pray that it happens throughout this nation. I will pray that it is real and not fickle in nature. Contrary to what was posted, it is not "futile" to pray for such things (including for the political system). Remember, it was through a political system that the apostle Paul was able to "appeal unto Caesar" and bring the Gospel into "Caesar's household" (Philippians 4:22).Hi crsschk...!It is interesting, but there was a discussion in another thread today about the destruction of the Temple by the Romans in 70 A.D., and whether or not this was a fulfillment of Matthew 24:1-3. I just wanted to remind everyone that there still is a large wall that remains from that Temple (the Western Wall, or Wailing Wall). Thus, since there are still many stones "upon another," it can be debated concerning whether or not Jesus' words from Matthew 24 have already been fulfilled. But I suppose that could be the topic of another thread. :-)

Hi Chris,Love your spirit brother...Thanks for saying what I was attempting to respond with last night, but was just to brain tired to articulate. The premise is skewered here even though I think I do understand the underlying sentiment. It was also interesting having listened once again to this little audio book from A.J. Gordon; How Christ Came to Church He mentions amongst many things, how we have lost the emphasis on Christs Second coming.Just as interesting is a conversation I am having elsewhere and where we are in the grand scheme of things, being derived from 2 Thess and so forth.But again, I think you well summed up my own sentiments here and glad you brought up the persecuted in other lands besides our own. Wouldn't even begin to guess at what the Lord might do between now and then and even if a revival was to come to these particular shores, the sense of 2 Tim 3 that is so prevalent in this hour... This comes to mind;Luke 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead. Irregardless, it would still truly be a marvel and a blessed change to see a true revival, that which wasn't just something cooked up by the good intentions of mere men. That which to the searching and humble would be unmistakably God.Regarding the temple, yes, understand that and recall the recent discussion there. Just some food for thought.

Two things come to mind particularly. The first is, that prayer which is not 'in the Spirit' or at least in agreement with the will of God, has no chance of being answered. It is a futile exercise if there is no aspiration to move from 'praying in the flesh' to 'praying in the Spirit'. thank you DorcasI have prayed in many prayer groups and prayer concerts. If the revival is to come as result of these prayers, we are in big trouble.This is NOT meant to sound harshly: listening to many brothers and sisters pray, we have to wonder if they really are led by the Spirit, or just want to see something "big" in their church, or influence the government with their agenda."But to this one I will look, To him who is humble and contrite of spirit, and who trembles at My word (Isaiah 66:2). When we are humble and contrite of spirit and take God seriously at His Word, He will lead us by His Spirit, and we will pray His Will.In His Love,Hans Prang

I just wanted to remind everyone that there still is a large wall that remains from that Temple (the Western Wall, or Wailing Wall). Can anyone confirm this, I thought it was flattened? Don't know if this deserves another thread, just intersting.

Can anyone confirm this, I thought it was flattened? Don't know if this deserves another thread, just interstingMy understanding is that the Western Wall is part of the 'retaining wall' for Herod's Temple. As such it was not part of the Temple proper but it created the platform on which Herod's Temple stood. As the disciples were taken up with the walls of the Temple itself, Christ's words were fulfilled in AD 70.