New Orleans Residents: God's Mercy Evident in Katrina's Wake

I found this article this morning, an encouraging one and if you desire to be blessed, read it.http://headlines.agapepress.org/users/AFO/afo2.aspginnyrose

Thanks ginnyrose,Have largely stayed away from getting caught up in the expected commentary when something like this strikes. So much that is speculative and the temptations towards ipso facto pronouncements always leave me puzzled.Like a few, have found it hard to get around the way the Lord would have the perspective shifted when He used the example of;Luk 13:4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? Luk 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. Where He laid the emphasis. I don't think it is to entirely disregard the possibilities that are raised, but it is interesting that Jesus always went to the heart of the matter."likewise" seems to be the dominant word.

Some questions and food for thought.How is it that words can flow so glibly from our lips? Why is it that when tragedy strikes all the underground 'prophets' suddenly appear on the scene to give us their slant on "I told you so?"With what great ease is it that "This is the judgment of God" for________When we already have;Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. More so, why the compulsion to elevate this thought within that some have a superior hidden knowledge that the rest do not? And why is it that the sentiment is not one of great sorrow and of fear and trembling but more of a smugness, an exalted view of ones self appointed judging of world events? Again, would refer to our Lords handling of these things in response to His disciples and the tower and even again to;Luk 9:54 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? Luk 9:55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. Luk 9:56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village. Would He not rebuke these once again? These 'prophets' and 'spokesmen' for the Lord. It seems to be a entirely dangerous thing to utter such things without any forethought or to slap a tag on to the end that there is any real concern for the devastation and great calamity, the tragedy, the loss of life. It all sounds shallow and hypocritical, more concern over being heard as 'Gods Prophet' than to any true reverence, any heartbreaking concern over the depravity of mans sin or his souls condition. Not even talking about my own prescription here. I myself don't have enough of the filling up of sorrow that I ought, the Lords true burden.Such arrogance in the face of such tragedy. It's as if the judgments of God and the wrath of God are welcomed, not feared ... Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. It is all rather appalling.Jer 45:5 And seekest thou great things for thyself? seek them not: for, behold, I will bring evil upon all flesh, saith the LORD: but thy life will I give unto thee for a prey in all places whither thou goest. The world has grown complex, the populations increased and instead of some thought taken to ponder things before glibly postulating, we have narrow minded views 'explaining' everything, especially these modern day self appointedprophets. Even without them, from our midst, those that name the name of Jesus Christ come easily opinionated commentary on world events. What I am vying for is just some real consideration to think and to consider before we speak.Consider. If this is a judgment of God on the sections affected from this hurricane, why was ample warning given to the 'sinners' to flee? And a great multitude did so. Surely it wasn't a million some odd Christians being spared was it?Is it therefore a judgment only on those that either where stubborn or gambled on the chance to 'ride it out', those that had no means to evacuate, a judgment on the poor and invalid, the old and the widow, be many of them sinners still? But those that had means, the affluent, that took heed, all those who the 'prophets' want to condemn for the ills of society, the gambling mecca owners, the proponents of revelry and debauchery in all it's forms and functions, they escape?There is something a little bit too easy in all this. Too much pride and flippancy coming from the mouths of those who ought to know better. No shame for making such arrogant pronouncements. Jer 5:31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?How that gets turned on it's ear, look at all the preceding verses and the sentiment expressed;Jer 5:21 Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not: Jer 5:22 Fear ye not me? saith the LORD: will ye not tremble at my presence, which have placed the sand for the bound of the sea by a perpetual decree, that it cannot pass it: and though the waves thereof toss themselves, yet can they not prevail; though they roar, yet can they not pass over it? Jer 5:23 But this people hath a revolting and a rebellious heart; they are revolted and gone. Jer 5:24 Neither say they in their heart, Let us now fear the LORD our God, that giveth rain, both the former and the latter, in his season: he reserveth unto us the appointed weeks of the harvest. Jer 5:25 Your iniquities have turned away these things, and your sins have withholden good things from you. Jer 5:26 For among my people are found wicked men: they lay wait, as he that setteth snares; they set a trap, they catch men. Jer 5:27 As a cage is full of birds, so are their houses full of deceit: therefore they are become great, and waxen rich. Jer 5:28 They are waxen fat, they shine: yea, they overpass the deeds of the wicked:they judge not the cause, the cause of the fatherless, yet they prosper; and the right of the needy do they not judge. Jer 5:29 Shall I not visit for these things? saith the LORD: shall not my soul be avenged on such a nation as this? Jer 5:30 A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land; Even in principle, is this not the exact opposite?Just as sure the response will come, but what of?;Isa 30:10 Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:Usually it seems it is the emphasis on "smooth things" that is brought forth, but "deceits" gets trampled underfoot. It is deceitful to make ipso facto statements, it is deceitful to give out deeds of wrath and judgment from vain imaginations and surface level observations. There is a certain amount of indignation that rises up, more so indigestion. Have grown weary of hearing from the self proclaimed prophets as if we are to fear them more than the God they espouse to represent. It is utterly disgusting. There are few true prophets out there, if it all, nothing of the sort of a broken man like Jeremiah, where is that type? But fewer still it seems good Bereans who will take the time to 'see if these things are so'. The assumption being that we dare not question them when we have been instructed to do just that.

Very helpful words. I read them twice and was especially struck by this the second time:Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them.Thank you Mike. MC

I find the words at the beginning of the article very positive. Indeed, it could have been much worse. I suspect that in the coming days we will discover countless examples of God's mercy in the lives of people. Now I must admit, that I had a few troublesome thoughts concerning some of the words and I will explain why. Maybe I am wrong, after all, it is easy to missjudge with only a few sentences to go on. "It's time for us to stand up against wickedness so that God won't have to deal with that wickedness," I'm not sure what this means. Do we avenge wickedness, so God doesn't have to? That doesn't seem to jive with scritpure. Just before making this statement, Pastor B.S. had listed many of the sins of New Orleans - all vile sins of the pagans. However, he failed to list any sins of the church. Paul warned the religious leaders to be careful about pronouncing judgments on the pagans because they were guilty of the SAME sins. See Rom. 2. In other words, let us not wag our fingers at those who run casinos if we ourselves love our worldly comforts. For worldliness - esp materialism, is killing the church. Few of us are not guilty. Pastor B.S. pronounces a judgment on the “false religion” of New Orleans. However, our Christian churches are saturated with the false religion of legalism and hypocrisy. Jesus had strong words for the hypocrites because they were putting terrible yokes on people, and were keeping them from receiving the free grace of God. Does that not deserve judgment – even more so than the sins of the pagans? Pastor B.S. believes that we must confront sin head-on - to “stand against” wickedness and wipe it out. I’m not sure how he means to do that and it is not for me to guess. However, if he is going to “stamp out sin” he needs to include all forms of sin, not just the sins of the worst pagans. And the greatest sin is simply to reject God, regardless of how nice a person is. I am concerned that if we make it our mission to “stand against” evil – in order to avoid such “judgments” as this disaster, we are operating from a faulty rational. First, we have made a rather major assumption – that this tragedy equals judgment. We also have made an assumption of who caused this tragedy. If our premise originates in our own mind, then our solutions will also originate in our own minds, not God’s. We will be zealous all right, but we will be operating in the flesh, not the Spirit. The results could be counterproductive. And what if another disaster strikes? Do we scapegoat the “sinners” for not heading our “warnings”? Many people got out ahead of time – I suspect many of them were the “ring-leaders’ of sinful activities – those who had money and power, and as yet have no intention of giving their lives to God. I heard one report of a casino operator who had a “good” year last year and plans to rebuild. So, we can’t assume that God “wiped out” the vile sin through this disaster, as Pastor B.S. implies. It seems that those who suffered most, were victims not only of this disaster, but also of tragic life circumstances (poverty, terrible family background, etc) Why should they be the ones to bear the brunt of this “judgment” Ultimately there is no escape from divine judgment for anyone except by surrendering to Christ - and trusting in his salvation - a suernatural work of God. And our role is to be ministers of reconciliation - seeing man restored to God. Thank you for inserting references from Jeremiah. I think that they help us to know the true heart of a prophet – one who weeps, and also one who bears the good news of God’s mercy. But most important, one who walks very closely with God and can truly identify with God’s heart. He is one so broken, and so submissive, that he would never speak out from his own notions. May God help us all to be instruments of his mercy, for “mercy triumphs over judgment.” Diane

Hi Diane,Should have prefaced this earlier. I know my tendencies are to bring these things up in a overall or generalizing kind of way.Probably could have put this in any number of running threads and it wasn't to this specifically but to many of the comments and prophetic assumptions that are contained within them.I guess as it often is, the troubling bottom line is that we just don't know as much as, if we were more honest about things, we think we 'know'. "We' in that generalization again.It's redundant but to see the way even the Lord would sidestep a question, a comment, to cut to the larger question, often ignoring the question outright, turning it around and making one realize that they don't even know the right question to ask.I am concerned that if we make it our mission to “stand against” evil – in order to avoid such “judgments” as this disaster, we are operating from a faulty rational. First, we have made a rather major assumption – that this tragedy equals judgment. We also have made an assumption of who caused this tragedy. If our premise originates in our own mind, then our solutions will also originate in our own minds, not God’s. We will be zealous all right, but we will be operating in the flesh, not the Spirit. The results could be counterproductive. Well said. The "whys", which the Lord so succinctly disregarded,Luk 13:1 There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. Luk 13:2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things? Luk 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. Luk 13:4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? Right away the assumptions are brought to bare, "suppose ye"?All this is not to discount anything the Lord might bring to bear down on this planet in judgment, in cleansing evil in the final analysis.2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? All the things He Himself warned of;Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. Mat 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. Mat 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows. Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. Mat 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. Mat 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. Certainly there is an 'end' to come and just as well we are not ignorant of all these things. It may seem that we are on the brink of collapse and my own suspicions are that we may be closer, and in that ongoing sense aren't we always closer with everyday that passes? Closer to His return.And I do hope so, "Come Lord Jesus!" But I also thought the end was when we were in the nuculear arms race.Guess what I am taking umbrage with is this idea of stripping the mystery and majesty, the real reverence and Godly fear from the fact that we just do not know in the sense that we think we know.Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. Likely broad brushing this here, maybe unfairly. What it seems to me is that we get some Christians running away with their imaginations with no checks to stop their progress. Something like the Tsunami, or this recent tragedy brings out all this posturing and editorializing and 'we' again feel like we have to have an answer for everything. Why is that? Isn't a great part of the mystery of God in that "My thought's are not your thoughts"? This comes up all the time, from the realms of predestination (In a nutshell to my mind; "None of your business") to tragedy's and other newspaper theology that if we were to look back on all the pundits even in the last 50 years or so couldn't be anything more than a giant mess of confusion and theory's. Men generated thoughts and wild guesses, stitching scriptures together, pin the tail on the Anti-christ have heard it expressed...Trying to stick a sharp pin into the balloon of what is often misguided and sometimes prideful air of so much tomfoolery. We are talking about the God of this universe as if we have Him all figured out, hear from Him in mass numbers of contradicting 'prophets', "The Lord told me..." The Lord told you no such thing, we need to get over ourselves in this way. We can speculate until the cows come home. But these almost, close enough kind of prophecy's are just foolishness.It's either exacting and definable or it's not what it claims it is. Jeremy brought this out earlier and had practically forgotten all about it;Deu 13:1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, Deu 13:2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; Deu 13:3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. It's the principle, remember Ananias and Sapphira?What did them in?Guess I am just a bit agitated about all this. And it is anything other than a doctrine of humanism. Even in the secular realm, the finger pointing is going on while the disaster is on going. Why this penchant for concern to give our opinions of Gods judgement? Isn't it enough to deal with the ultimate judgment laid down in the garden;"You will surely die" to untwist Satan's lie, and bring it full circle back to the Lords own pronouncement; "Unless you repent...Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called and about which you made the good confession in the presence of many witnesses. I charge you in the presence of God, who gives life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who in his testimony before Pontius Pilate made the good confession, to keep the commandment unstained and free from reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, which he will display at the proper time--he who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen. 1Ti 6:12-16

I was not going to make any comments but may after all. What these people are saying when they declare this is a judgement of God is that they are hoping, praying that people will be made aware of the final judgement of God from which there will be no escape. Isaiah 26:9b-10a (NASB): For when the earth experiences Thy judgments the inhabitants of the world learn rightouisness. Though the wicked is shown favor he does not learn righteousness. Natural calamities are allowed by God to make people aware of HIM. No less. It will do that. Judgement for the Christian comes in the form of chastizement. The scriptures tells us whom the LORD loves he chastens and if you do not experience chastizement you are a bastard and not a son! OT history has stories of innocent people who suffered with the wicked when God meted out judgement to Israel and Judah. Consider Daniel and his three friends, Esthers family, Ezra, Nehemiah are some we all know about.This terrible calamity has revealed the hearts of people: Ecclesiastes 3:18 (NASB): I said to myself concerning the sons of men, "God has surely tested them in order for them to see that they are but beasts." This principle has never changed. Human nature has not changed since. Rather then fighting over semantics can we not see the hand of God in all this and reach out to people in need? I promise you God does use natural disasters - our area has had a couple of terrible tornadoes in recent years - to make people aware of his power,mercy and grace so what are we doing to reinforce this in the minds of the victims? If you still disagree, study Isaiah then Revelation. Revelation is the final word from the LORD Jesus about things to come. Now in the days to come we as individuals and corporately as a church will be busy helping refugees in our community materially and ministering to their spiritual needs....and the stories that are forthcoming from them are very enlightening. ginnyrose

Even in the secular realm, the finger pointing is going on while the disaster is on going.Didn't this tendency originate in the garden of Eden? We see this instinctive response in children, and easily fall into it. Who done it? That person DESERVES JUSTICE. I think our bent towards justice/judgment is a manifestation of God's divine attribute within us. Only sin has flawed our thinking and our sense of judgment turns into the blame game. We want to pass off our own responsibity onto someone else. And we want to see them pay for it. This does not express the mind of Christ. Ginnyrose said: Natural calamities are allowed by God to make people aware of HIM. The mindset behind this comment is one of MERCY not judgment.As well as this one: Judgement for the Christian comes in the form of chastizementI believe that both God's justice and God's mercy is behind the troubles on this globe. Death is both justice and mercy - mercy because it opens a way to a new life - eternal life. In the flood there was mercy for the human race..... etc. Diane