We know that one is justified by faith alone. But would you agree that before faith, one must repent?But that would mean justification by faith and repentance, not justification alone. So how would you then describe this to the skeptics?Thanks,
Repentance, faith, love, and every other holy exercise, both imply and proceed from faith. Without confidence in the character and requirements of God, it is impossible to repent. For what is repentance but heartily to justify God, and condemn ourselves. So it is equally impossible to exercise a complacent love to God, without faith. Submission to God also implies and presupposes the exercise of confidence in God, and in His requirements.Written by Charles Finney, The Oberlin Evangelist, January 16, 1839, Lecture II. Here is an exact Charles Finney quote from The Promise of The Spirit published by Bethany House 1980. Lecture 11. THE PROMISES--No. 1, page 135. "We never keep the commandments, only as we take hold of the promises. By this I mean that grace alone enables us from the heart, to obey the commandments of God. It is, therefore, only when we lay hold of the promise, by faith, and receive its fulfillment in ourselves, that we really, in heart, obey the commandments of God. For example we never love the Lord our God, according to the first great commandment, only as we lay hold on, and receive the fulfillment of some such promise as this: "I will circumcise your heart, and the heart of your seed, to love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, that you may live." Exact quote from Finney's Systematic Theology -- 1851 Edition Lecture 50 "It is true indeed that God requires of men, especially under the gospel, what they are unable to do directly in their own strength. Or more strictly speaking, he requires them to lay hold on His strength, or to avail themselves of His grace, as the condition of being what he requires them to be. With strict propriety, it cannot be said that in this, or in any case, he requires directly any more than we are able directly to do. The direct requirement in the case under consideration, is to avail ourselves of, or to lay hold upon his strength. This we have power to do. He requires us to lay hold upon his grace and strength, and thereby to rise to a higher knowledge of Himself, and to a consequent higher state of holiness than would be otherwise possible to us. The direct requirement is to believe, or to lay hold upon his strength, or to receive the Holy Spirit, or Christ, who stands at the door, and knocks, and waits for admission. The indirect requirement is to rise to a degree of knowledge of God, and to spiritual attainments that are impossible to us in our own strength. We have ability to obey the direct command directly, and the indirect command indirectly. That is, we are able by virtue of our nature, together with the proffered grace of the Holy Spirit, to comply with all the requirements of God. So that in fact there is no proper inability about it." From Christian Perfection by Asa Mahan The sinner is not required to "make himself clean," or to "make to himself a new heart," in the exercise of his unaided powers, but by application to the blood of Christ, "which cleanses from all sin." The grace which purifies the heart is provided; the fountain, whose waters cleanse from sin, is set open. To this fountain the sinner is brought, and because he may descend into it, and there "wash his garments and make them white," he can fulfill the command, "Wash you, make you clean," "make to yourself a new heart and a new spirit," and "cleanse yourself from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit." The sinner is able to make to himself a "new heart and a new spirit," because he can instantly avail himself of offered grace. He does literally "make to himself a new heart and a new spirit," ONLY when he yields himself up to the influence of that grace. The power to cleanse from sin lies in the blood and grace of Christ; and hence, when the sinner "purifies himself by obeying the truth through the spirit," the glory of his salvation belongs, not to him, but to Christ.
Jesus said unless you repent you shall not see the Kingdom of God. So you are saying faith in Christ leads us to repentance?
Repentance is the consequence of believing God's word; hence it is the consequence of faith.
Heb 11:6 "But without faith it is impossible to please Him: for he that cometh to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him."
There is an interesting confirmation of this is that Christ defined 'repentance' in terms of the behaviour of the people of Nineveh.“The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.” Matt. 12:41, KJVS)So if we want Christ's definnition of repentance we shall find it in the story of Jonah 3. In fact, the only person said to 'repent' in Jonah is God himself, however we read “So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them.” (Jonah 3:5, KJVS) Jonah 3 says they 'believed and responded'; Christ says they repented.
Faith and repentance are inseparable. They are just are inseparable as light and heat coming forth from a fire.
Faith IS repentance. Repentance means to turn around and face a new direction - turning away from a state of unbelief to a state of faith in God. It is facing the "Promised Land" and entering it in spite of the "giants" Diane
If I remember correctly, the 95 thesis mentions repentance very early. (I checked it's in the 3rd line) So Martin wasn't dodging repentance, and he didn't dodge repentance. Many do today.The 'faith only' concept was just showing that salvation is not of works of man. In other words Luther was saying with that pillar that we can't work and earn heaven. The five pillars aren't the gospel, they were a statement to the Roman church. I would simply say that Luther was just a man trying to make a point, that we can't save ourselves. To scoffers, I simply say that my faith is not in Martin, my faith is in Christ Jesus. You and I know Luther did great things, but when I must stand up to scoffers, I don't go overboard trying to defend men, the same way I defend Scripture or the gospel, etc, as people can often find faults with our past brothers.
So the faith talked about in the Bible is when someone is convicted by the Holy Spirit and brought to repentance?"You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only." - James 2:24This is slightly off topic but does this mean then, that James is explaining the difference between true and false faith. True faith will lead to good works, if there are no good works, then there is no real faith?Thus when the Bible says “So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them.” The works of fasting and putting on sackcloth were the results of faith?
I think the key thing is that repentance is response. If it is response what is it responding to? The 'word of God'; hence faith.
Hi Ron,Jonah 3 says they 'believed and responded'; Christ says they repentedDoes this give weight to Finney's assertion that God deals with sinners individually and often they are 'holding out' and not being obedient to what they know He is calling them to do? In other words, God puts His finger on something and they refuse to respond rightly?
Man's depravity always excludes man from turning to God. Man is without understanding. It is God's desire that all come to repent so then it is God who must give the grace necessary for man to know that he has been given a choice,The Holy Spirit reveals this to all men. Listen, what is the only source of wisdom? 2 To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding; 3 To receive the instruction of wisdom, justice, and judgment, and equity; 4 To give subtilty to the simple, to the young man knowledge and discretion. 5 A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels: 6 To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings. 7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction. Repentance, a turning to the ancient path, requires that God illuminate the path. Again listen to Proverbs 2:Prov. 2:1 My son, if thou wilt receive my words, and hide my commandments with thee; 2 So that thou incline thine ear unto wisdom, and apply thine heart to understanding; 3 Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding; 4 If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for hid treasures; 5 Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God. 6 For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding. 7 He layeth up sound wisdom for the righteous: he is a buckler to them that walk uprightly. 8 He keepeth the paths of judgment, and preserveth the way of his saints. 9 Then shalt thou understand righteousness, and judgment, and equity; yea, every good path. 10 When wisdom entereth into thine heart, and knowledge is pleasant unto thy soul; 11 Discretion shall preserve thee, understanding shall keep thee: The Lord speaks through the Holy Spirit. Again verse 6; For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding. Faith then comes as a result of hearing and then acting according to what you hear. Rom. 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Repentance is made possible by the continual washing and renewing by the Holy Spirit. Without the light of His words man cannot repent for he lacks understanding,In ChristJeff
Just a thought...An athiest woman once said to me, "How can I turn to God for help when I don't believe He exists?" I really didn't know what to say to her, except that all you need is a mustard size seed of faith. You have to have enough to take the initial step into the unknown. Although, believing in God is not enough. You must believe in Jesus and what He did on the cross. How can you believe your sins are forgiven unless you are ready to admit you are a sinner? (i.e. Repent)We are justified by faith. But not by faith in anything or any God. We are justified by faith in Christ. Which means, we are justified by believing that Jesus died on the cross for our sins. In order to believe Jesus died for your sins, you must first realize you are a sinner. When we realize that we are a sinner (repentence) and we believe in our hearts Jesus is Lord, then....Although, who am I to say how people are exactly saved? Only Christ knows. All I can do is lead them to Christ, the rest is up to Him. Just some thoughts,Blake
http://www.allposters.com/-st/Michelangelo-Buonarroti-Posters_c26672_.htmTRUST is the characteristic OT word for the NT “Faith” and “Believe”.James has been charged with contradicting the doctrine of justification by faith as set forth by Paul –(Rom 4:1-5) WHAT then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh?For if Abraham, was justified by works, he has something to boast about but not before God. For what does the scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.Paul, when he uses “faith” in a personal sense, means “trust” in the atoning work of Christ to the extent of full commitment to him.
Will wrote:"The works of fasting and putting on sackcloth were the results of faith?"I believe that these are the results of repentance. Some say true faith includes repentance, and I would not fistfight someone that said that. Even though I don't personally phrase it that way since Scripture doesn't:Mark 1:15b "repent ye, and believe the gospel" Where I differ is from people that claim (as Greg Locke put it) that a man like Billy Bob who was lead in the sinner's prayer, though he still gets drunk, and high, and beats his wife, is saved. He is supposed to be saved because he 'asked Jesus into his heart.' Some defend that this man is saved, and that repentance is not necessary, and call what I believe in: 'Lordship salvation.' Here again, I believe that someone who truly 'asks Jesus into their heart' will be saved. Our heart is the center of our being. If Jesus truly lived there, the rest of you will be changed. I avoid using this phrase, because people go around saying 'I asked Jesus into my heart' the way you would say 'I went to a ballgame yesterday.' When one is converted, you will see results of a new creation in Christ. There will be a departure from iniquity. There will be a new birth. It seems many try to make Scripture fit the latest theology, when it should be the other way around.The first four words in Webster's defininition of 'repent' are right on: to turn from sin. EDIT: This is interesting concerning this subject. I have heard that Luther was so big on faith and not works, that he wanted to put the book of James on the other side of Revelation, and get it as far from the gospels as possible.
Hi guys,My pastor says that repentance is not necessary for Salvation. I've quoted him several scriptures supporting the fact that I believe he is wrong, (especially 2 Cor. 7:10) and many others. He says that I'm reading the verses out of context, and whenever it says "salvation" we should ask "salvation from what?" Hell, of course!!! DUH!!! (Well, I didn't say that in so many words, but it was implied.) How can I get him to believe that Repentance IS necessary? I've asked God twice if I should change churches, and He gave me the same response each time. NO. He thinks Ray Comfort is an "arminian" who "proof texts" his way around the Scriptures, and came close to calling him a Calvinist! He refuses to listen to "Hell's best Kept Secret" or to read the book. He says that repentance in Salvation would be considered a "works theology" which is basically "Lordship Salvation" or Calvinism.He doesn't preach whole sermons on repentance, but only mentions it in passing every once in a while. He says that repentance in the NT is mostly mentioned about people who are already Believers. How can I help him to see the error of his ways? I think that many in our church may be falsly converted.
If he is willing, have him listen to this sermon. It is called "The First Word of the Gospel" by J Edwin Orr:https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=167&commentView=itemCommentsAnyone who listens to this should be able to see that you can't preach around repentance when declaring the gospel, if you are going declare you are giving the whole Biblical gospel.
WOW!!! What a message! Unfortunately, I won't be able to get my pastor to listen to it, he's a very busy guy, and 54 minutes it is way too long! But I will listen to it over and over again and memorize the important parts of it, and tell it to him in person. Thank you very much!!
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