On Being Virgins

I read the divorce/remarriage thread with concern. One poster said that many do not marry expecting they will unmarry in the future. So now the question comes: why do people divorce? When I was a youth -I am 58 YO - the saying was that if you want a successful marriage, you must remain a virgin! If you are promiscuous before marriage, marriage will not change that! The temptation to step out on your spouse will be just as great then as it was when you were single. Marriage does not protect you from this temptation. Understanding the mercy, forgiveness of God I believe Jesus can and will forgive sexual sin(s) if you are truly sorry and repent. Unfortunately, the flesh is never converted and you will need to really walk close with the LORD ALL the time to remain faithful and not sin. That is why this sin is so terrible because it is so difficult to live victorious over it.What makes faithfullness so difficult when one has been promisicuous is that when you enter into intimacy with your spouse, all the others you have been with will crowd into bed with you, interferring in that relationship. The memory of past acts will come to haunt you and prevent bonding. It will require an act of divine healing, mercy and grace of God to be able to live above that. Unless this becomes a daily thing, marriages will fail.Now what are you, what am I doing to protect our children, our youth from these temptations? we cannot lock them up in a closet and shield them from the allurements in this world....most youth know what they should do but have no inclination to do it, do not want to and think we are such antiques for raising the alarm. The bottom line is we were also tempted in our day. we could live above it and the grace that kept us is still available to people today...if they want it. Back in my day we were taught practical things we should do and NOT do when with the opposite sex. Today some would call this legalistic, but I can show you it worked and not many of my peers are divorced (the ones I grew up with) and those that are violated the principles we were taught: Petting and necking were no-nos, dressing modestly at all times, do not be alone in the dark...and have the fear of God in our heart. Doing all these things will not guarantee a marriage will stay intact, but it certainly will go a long way to keep it there. What are your thoughts?ginnyrose

I think the best thing we can do to shield our children is "to overcome evil with good" I've been married for 6 years. i am 27 and believe it or not both my wife and i where virgins. I am actually the only man she ever kissed (sad that i cannot say the same). The fear of the Lord was branded in my heart and that is the main thing that kept me. i strayed from the Lord for a season and did some REALLY stupid things, but because of my Godly moorings i did not ever have sex (of any sort).Education and prayer. Educating our kids that sex is not a given, it is a privlige between two committed for life. That's what worked for us and in faith will work on my daughter, (soon to be daughters;))

Well, was sexuality also so broadly embraced back then as it is now?Things which are normal now where probably simply undone back then.Even when you don't look or search for 'bad' things you encounter them today.. even when thought 'legalistic' we might get tempted.Perhaps alot of those young people back then would get into trouble if they where living today.Got a question though.. how where the kids from non-believers handled sexuality in the time when you was young?Back in my day we were taught practical things we should do and NOT do when with the opposite sex. Today some would call this legalistic, but I can show you it worked and not many of my peers are divorced (the ones I grew up with) and those that are violated the principles we were taught: Petting and necking were no-nos, dressing modestly at all times, do not be alone in the dark...and have the fear of God in our heart. Doing all these things will not guarantee a marriage will stay intact, but it certainly will go a long way to keep it there.

I am 23 years old, a virgin, and am dating ("courting") a wonderful God fearing 22 year old girl, a virgin as well. She is the first girl I have ever dated, and is the only girl I've ever kissed. She has dated several other guys, and was even engaged once, and has kissed her share of guys. We've known eachother for about a year now, and have been dating officially for 10 months.My girlfriend and I are both extremely concerned with being pure. We deeply cherish our bodies as a temple of the Lord, and don't want to do anything that we think would dishonor the Lord. Likewise, we want to present our future spouses (hopefully eachother) with the greatest gift of all, our virginity. Issues regarding purity and sexuality are of great concern to both of us, and I think it should be for the Church as well. I'll just offer up my thoughts and struggles and heart in these areas.We've had our struggles. In the past, I used to be highly addicted to porn. Such created some concern for her, that should we get married, that perhaps I will be let down some, as she might not quite measure up to many of the women I saw in many of the movies and pictures I absorbed. Satan still shoots some firey darts at me with those images every now and then, and I'm sure they will remain a constant source of temptation for the rest of my life. If I wanted to, I could recall to my memory many many images by sheer will, as much of that stuff has sadly been etched into my mind.We've had much conversation over this, and I don't think she needs to worry about such getting in the way in the future though. I've assured her that should we get married, those old images would never compare to her, as she has a great advantage over those images and the women in them: she is real. (For that matter, I think my girlfriend is highly attractive.)For several years I've dealt with these issues, and have been a minister to youth and college students alike. I've also done a bit of reading on the subject, and talked to many other wise godly ministers on the subject. One youth pastor I know tells his youth "If you ask 'How far is too far?' you are asking the wrong question." Though in my opinion, a perfectly legitimate question, the question of "How far is too far" can often be an indicator of the heart. It can show if one's concern is with being pure, or if one is simply attempting to push some legalistic definition of what constitutes "sex." At the same time though, it can be a perfectly innocent question. Some say you should avoid being alone until you get engaged or get married. Some say you should avoid romantic situations altogether. Some say you should avoid holding hands. Some say you should avoid hugging. Some say you should avoid "cuddling" on the sofa. Some say you should avoid kissing. Some say you should only avoid deep kissing. Many suggestions abound.Ultimately it comes down to what Jesus said, "who ever looks at a woman (or man) with lust for her in his heart, is guilty of adultery." Simply put, there should be no lusting period. However, at the same time we should not confuse all arousal with lust. In it's essence, simple physical attraction is arousal. Lust is when you envision somebody in an erotic situation in your heart. It is undressing them with your mind. However, lust should not be confused with simple physical attraction, nor should all romantic expressions of affection between a boy and girl be viewed as lust. If you cannot be alone with your girlfriend without thinking about what they look like naked, then don't be alone. For that matter, if you cannot be affectionate and romantic towards them without being sexual towards them, then don't do that. My girlfriend and I have some very definite boundaries that we believe the Holy Spirit has given us when it comes to such. We don't think there is anything at all with holding hands or hugging. We don't think there is anything at all wrong with kissing, and even doing so with great affection. We don't believe it is wrong to kiss eachother on the neck. However, we believe it is wrong to give hickies. Should we cuddle and kiss, we avoid ever positioning ourselves in anyway that would express something sexual. We do believe it is wrong to touch/group/pet eachother's pelvic areas, butts, and chests. These are our areas that we have been convicted in. A couple times we went a little beyond our personal boundaries, but the Holy Spirit convicted both of us about it. My girlfriend and I are very open about what is and is not acceptable behavior from eachother, and we are all the greater closer to eachother as a result. We know that we both love God, and wish to honor Him and eachother, and as a result, greatly trust eachother, and know that if the other were to try something that went "too far" then the other would put an end to such a situation.So, these are just some of my thoughts and my own personal experiences.

Dear GinnyroseThanks for your thread. Husbands don't love their wifes, women don't respect their husbands, and children don't obey and respect their parents. One of the greatest things that propagate a message opposite to these Biblical truths is television and movies. By the grace of God I threw out the TV, and my marraige is a whole lot better. We have all the time for eachother, for fellowship and for the Lord. People should try it for a few months and see what diffirence it makes. How can a father be the spiritual leader of his home if he still lives a carnal life? We need totally surrendered husbands! It must all start with them, but men are sissies today. They are more worried about Sports, cars and hobbies than the things of God. We need men who know what it is to weep before God and to walk with God. If the men truly know God, the wifes will want to submit to them and desire more of God and the children will have that respect.Concerning the standards of your generation, that some will call legalistic. I agree: If it worked for you then, it will work for us now. God's standard hasn't changed. I'm half your age and I feel that dressing modestly and keeping pure in thought and deed is still God's standard!If we call ourselves Christians and claim that we have the Truth, the Way and the Life, our standards must be the highest of all. The Muslims today think the Christians are crazy, because they are not diffirent to the world. The Christians should have the highest standard of purity among their young people. May the Lord in His mercy help us men. O, for a revival in the homes. In Him, Gery

So, these are just some of my thoughts and my own personal experiences.JimmyThere's an 'old' man here who reads this with a heart lifted to God in wonder and thankfulness, and one of the greatest causes of thankfulness is that your comments come from a 23 year old!As you have been so open, can I ask you how you distinguish between 'romantic' and 'sexual'? I often think that the processes to full sexual union are like a series of 'requests and surrenders'. I once spoke to a group of teenagers on the question 'whose wife was that you were kissing?' :-? The first time we touch another's hand it is really a 'question/request' and their acceptance of the touch is a tiny surrender. If these little scenario makes sense, the next question is 'how do we decide what to ask'? ... bearing in mind that the person we are asking may some day 'belong' to someone else?

Ron,The point you are making me reminds me of one I have heard: What you are doing, would you want someone else to do to the person you will eventually marry? Another problem has entered into the scene: men and women no longer seem to have a sense of possessiveness of their spouse. Meaning: he/she is MINE and he/she does NOT belong to anyone else. Period. People are no longer jealous of their spouse. God often talks about his jealousy for his people. Somehow this quality has been lost in recent years due to the tolorance philosophy being taught everywhere. This is my opinion. What do you think?ginnyrose

People are no longer jealous of their spouse. God often talks about his jealousy for his people. Somehow this quality has been lost in recent years due to the tolorance philosophy being taught everywhere. I'm not Ron here, but I had a thought about this. In some Christian circles I have been a part of jealousy is looked down upon almost as if it were a sin to be jealous. Or perhaps if you're jealous you are somehow insecure. I believe this philosophy as you called it is actually demonic. It opens the door to rife immorality. A. Paget Wilkes describes the despising of love. He writes:Despising love is perhaps the most cruel thing on earth; it is the one unpardonable thing. Worse than weakness, worse than lust, worse than deceit and all manor of evil. Open handed sin against love, scorns its tears and mocks at it's heartache. it is brutal beyond all reconing. Love rejected is the acme of evil; and this was the prodigals crime; this is the sin of humanity. Of course he is referring primarily to God loving us, but not limited to that. Jealousy is the warning that betrayal is nigh- and betrayal is the most horrible emotion one can suffer. It arises in us as a mechanism to protect that which is not so much 'ours' as 'ourselves' as one flesh. With the same ferver that you would leap away from a moving car coming strait towards you- you seek to 'protect' that relationship. If one were numb to jealousy he might as well handle a loaded weapon. Its only a matter of time before in that carelessness the 'gun' will go off.

Here is a thread I started on dating some time ago that goes closely with what we are talking about.

Robert, You said it so well...much better then I did. I appreciate it. Thanks!ginnyrose

As you have been so open, can I ask you how you distinguish between 'romantic' and 'sexual'?I believe romance to be simply enjoying eachother to the fullest extent possible, and showing your love and affections to them. I believe that you can have romance outside of marriage, without being sexual. Being romantic is showing another through gesture how deeply you care for them, and how precious they are in your sight. Thus, I open my car door for my girlfriend, write letters and poetry, hand deliver her flowers (much better than having a shop do it for you), get dressed up and go out to a nice restaurant, and from time to time I have even ventured to cook a 3 course meal served by candlelight (nevermind I hardly know how to cook as it is) with some nice jazz music playing in the background, or even just laying out in her back yard on an open blanket for a little bit and just looking up at the stars and moon. However, sometimes being romantic also involves none of those things. Sometimes when my girlfriend has been sick, I have gone to pickup her some stuff from the grocery store, e.g. soup, gatorade, jello. Sometimes when her knees get really sore (because of a knee problem she has), I have simply rubbed them to help her get through the pain. All these things, I consider romantic, and they need not be sexual in nature. The only "sexual" thing really about any of this is that I am a man and she is a woman. Of course, as I mentioned before, at certain times there might be certain levels of arousal in certain activities. But, I don't see this as a problem, simply for the mere fact that the fact we are attracted to somebody is simply a low level of arousal. When I kiss my girlfriend, my level of arousal surely rises as well. But I don't see this as a problem either, so long as one does not get caught up in sinful lust. Now, this dichtomy between arousal and lust might frighten some, but I believe there is a great deal of difference.

1Cr 7:1 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: [It is] good for a man not to touch a woman.1Cr 7:2 Nevertheless, [to avoid] fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.