Laura Bush Calls Criticism Of Husband 'Disgusting'

Mat 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation...The word for nation is ethnos. Ethnic group against ethnic group...

This morning one of the UK TV stations had a story about a family in Texas which had taken in a black family from New Orleans. The home was palacial and the woman of the house commented that they were Christians. We then saw shots of the two women making sandwiches together. The New Orleans woman was overwhelmed at the home in which she had been welcomed but the two women were obviously getting on well together and the white Texan was very relaxed in sharing what God had blessed them with.It was a delight! I was all choked up just watching it. Praise God for straightforward Christian grace and open heartedness. Sometimes it takes a Katrina to reveal what God can do in people.

Thats great Philo! I like to hear a little bit of balance. Just about all I've heard is black vs white concerning the event.

What a wonderful story of the the church being the church. If only the media would speak and show the coverage of all the white Americans helping the black Americans. My wife and I were discussing this a little bit last night and I realized that most of the rescue efforts, the help being offerd and the huge donations of money are being done by white Americans, or at least that is what I have seen. Everything seems to get blown out of proportion but the truth is rarely given.Mike

I agree about the black vs. white thing. It's ridiculous. That's not what it's about. Some people are just taking it to that extreme. I think I saw that televised telethon where West, I guess, started pointing the finger saying that racism was getting practiced against the hurricane victims in New Orleans. Oh man... I knew that wasn't in the script and it made my heart skip a beat. I just felt such anger from that guy and division. So a large number of the victims in New Orleans happen to be black and poor... those are facts, and I think that was pointed out so that something could be done about their situation. There are lots of good stories out there about families opening up their homes, people turning to and relying on God, and several organizations and even nations around the world helping out with the hurricane relief. MSNBC, in my opinion, has been doing a good job covering all the good, hopeful stories and did their part in trying to help like getting medical attention to those in need or reuniting family members that had been slpit during evacuations. They've had several one hour special edition evening news on-site in New Orleans and other places affected by the hurricane and great special Dateline shows giving updates on how the relief has been going. And I've been surprised how much they've chosen to air when people have talked about God being their hope and salvation during this time. They even ended a bunch of news programs with Christian songs, singing about the Lord. I see that as monumental. I see that as a miracle.

As a 55 year old American-African myself, who came thru the thick of the Civil Rights Movement, i can tell you point blank that i can sense racism like a smoke detector detects smoke, and i see NO RACISM in the images my TV brings me of the Katrina survivors ... These days i get more grief for being a open Christian than for being black ...Nay, to the contrary, as i've had to point out to so many of those (saved and unsaved) in my ethnic group, "all i see is a whole bunch of white people helping a humongous amount of black people the best way they can" ... i saw Sean Penn actually in the water helping folk, but i didn't see Jay-Z and P-Diddy, and poor black folk are suppose to be there peeps! ... Things that make you go hmmmmmm ... i expect unsaved black folk, and the so called opportunistic Rev's Jackson and Sharpton to play the race card whenever possible, but it hurts me to my heart when any American-African Christian can't take off the dark glasses of past racial wrongs to allow the clear vision of the Holy Spirit as to what is happening now ... By God's grace and guidance to the point of enabling my good common sense, i can see where the faults lie ... The chain of command and communication in any emergency is local, state and federal, at which point the initial two sadly failed ... It didn't do the poor citizens of New Orleans any good for their Mayor to tell them to get out, instead of firing up all those hundreds of school buses to getting them out, as it also didn't do the left behinds any good to be told by the Mayor to go to the Super Dome when in fact there was no provisions for them when the got there ... And on the state level with the Govenor, her ineptitude is just to great to go into, to say nothing of the archaic laws on the books of Mississippi, Alabama and Loisiana that dismiss the Federal government from any doings in their emegencies because they were so bent our of shape during the Civil Rights years of the Federal governments support of that movement ... But no, it's easier for folk to propigate false witness against ones fellow man, than to sit, glean and gather facts towards the truth ... If anything anymore in America if we do in fact have an "ism" problem it's not "racism", but "classism" ... Today rich, upper and middle class blacks have the same disdain as our white counterparts for those they call "poor white trash", and most modern white folk now know that there's that same class distinction when they think of American-Africans ... There's always something good that comes out of every tragedy, and for this saint if it's nothing but our Lord exposing charlatans and there poisinous self serving messages, by toppling on them their own self built weak walls of personal gain ... Then i say Lord, if they won't repent, then do them like Jericho! ... Thru this, and the other disasters coming, God's about to fix a whole lot of mess that needs fixin ... :beard:

Br. Rahman wrote: If anything anymore in America if we do in fact have an "ism" problem it's not "racism", but "classism" ... Today rich, upper and middle class blacks have the same disdain as our white counterparts for those they call "poor white trash", and most modern white folk now know that there's that same class distinction when they think of American-Africans ... I have a Chinese Brother hear at work whose parents live in New Orleans near the Mississippi River. They are some of those who still will not leave their home. They are in their 70's and will not leave for they fear relocation, According to my friends testimony, back in 1969 during another devastating hurricane, many of the same areas of the city was flooded as they are today. Back then the white population inhabited those areas. After that hurricane, the white population never returned, And now the poorest of the poor took up residence in these same flood impacted areas. So what we are experiencing now are pictures of poverty.The events of 911 impacted the wealth of this nation. It might be interesting to compare the response of that situation to the response of this situation. One might say that the two events cannot be looked at in like manner. What I am pointing to is not the specific circumstances but the response. I heard yesterday that the Insurance companies do not expect to pay out as much as they had to in the 911 incident. Also we are still spending how many billions we don't have to fight terrosist we don't know. Amos 3:11 Therefore thus says the Lord GOD:\t“An adversary shall be all around the land;\tHe shall sap your strength from you,\tAnd your palaces shall be plundered.” Everywhere one turns the leaders of the world seem to be more foolish with each passing day,In ChristJeff

The reality is that this is a disaster that could have been avoided had infrastructure money been put into the levee system, which failed.This is an important observation Neil...President Bush’s supposed racism (sic) did not create the graft and negligence of the New Orleans government. In recent years, more money was given to the Army corps of engineers in Louisiana then any other state. Why didn't local government take care of business and why are these same leaders blaming the president? If everyone knew the levees were vulnerable then the state and city governments are accountable. Perhaps the federal government should invade every city in order to save us all from our own lack of responsibility in repairing vital infrastructure. (Just kidding.)Of course in the midst of the crisis, none of this is important right now. Civil rights? Civil rights has always been regarded as a left wing type thing...and therefore verboten to a white evangelical church I see increasingly as a harlot of the right wing in America,Brother, with all sensitivity for your feelings, this is really a politically manufactured statement. I'm "white" and "evangelical" and I care very deeply about civil rights. I am not the composite demographic that popular media keeps talking about. If you are going to stereotype "white" Christians, then how can you denounce racism? When you portray "white" conservative Christians as all behaving the same way, aren't you, in fact, participating in racism? It is provocative but perhaps not productive. I, like many others, have been struck with the almost universal outpouring of support and compassion for the victims of this disaster. I can honestly say that everyone I have talked to is doing at least a little something to help out. In my community, churches, schools, business, and individuals are all giving money and most remarkably, their time. In all of this it is stupefying how transfixed we are by the media. Their opinions and agenda determines the issues we talk about. They penetrate the walls of our homes and tell us how to see the world through their eyes instead of Christ’s. They show pictures of African Americans carrying television sets when they could simply pan their cameras 20 degrees and show us African Americans helping their neighbors. Then they talk abstractly about "racism" when they could report on the help that is coming from not just every sector of America, but also the world, in reaction to human suffering. They play the flute for us, and oh how we dance.Bless you brothers and sisters,MC

Hi Compton...!Very well said. :-)

In all of this it is stupefying how transfixed we are by the media. Their opinions and agenda determines the issues we talk about. They penetrate the walls of our homes and tell us how to see the world through their eyes instead of Christ’s. They show pictures of African Americans carrying television sets when they could simply pan their cameras 20 degrees and show us African Americans helping their neighbors. Then they talk abstractly about "racism" when they could report on the help that is coming from not just every sector of America, but also the world, in reaction to human suffering. Very well said indeed. And thanks Rahamn for a refreshing perspective.

Neil wrote,Quote:"Civil rights? Civil rights has always been regarded as a left wing type thing......and therefore verboten to a white evangelical church I see increasingly as a harlot of the right wing in america, GRIEVOUS!!"AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! Brother Neil. This is truth that so many don't want to hear. The current evangelical church in America is a whore and a prostitute in many, many, many ways, but especially to the right wing political American agenda. I am as political as Christ was (not at all)!!! I support neither right or left wing politics, thinking and teaching, but Jesus Christ thinking and teaching , which is neither. I’m most concerned with the Kingdom of Heaven and not the kingdoms of the earth and the world. But those who are fooled into thinking the right wing (George Bush) politics in America is anything but Satanic (as well as left wing (Bill Clinton) American political thinking) are just plainly deceived. Right wing American politics are just as Satanic as left wing American politics.!!! (If not ten times MORE!) And you are absolutely correct, in my opinion, that the white evangelical American church is increasingly a harlot and prostitute of the right wing demonic forces in America.GRIEVOUS!!!We need to be concerned with the Kingdom of Heaven and not the kingdoms of this world!!!Did Jesus lead a thousand or million man march to Rome to protest their political agenda against the Jews and try to get Caesar to pass more moral laws, forcing Roman citizens under law to live more moral lives (like modern Iran or Saudi Arabia) or did He preach the Kingdom Heaven and rivers of living water?Left and especially right wing political American Christianity is anti-Jesus!THANK YOU NEIL for bringing to light such truths!Oh yeah, I am as white as white can be, with red hair, a red beard and the fairest of fair skin. (of northern European, Russian, Siberian and Northern German decent and 100% born and bread American citizen)

Hi Patrick,With all due respect and to Neil as well, might I put forth this challenge? If this be true, then why the compulsion to get caught up in all the rhetoric? It seems a bit all too easy to broad brush everything in this way.There is a bit of a breakdown in dichotomy between these two statements: I support neither right or left wing politics, thinking and teaching, but Jesus Christ thinking and teaching , which is neither.Left and especially right wing political American Christianity is anti-Jesus!Not purposefully trying to prove you but just to give pause to muse on whats back of all this.A part of the problem you might have in the words you have used is in the scriptures themselves. Consider:Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing. Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour. Rom 13:1-7Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme; Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well. For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men: As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God. Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king. 1Pe 2:13-17 Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work, To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men. Tit 3:1,2I exhort therefore, that, first of all,supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 1Ti 2:1-3To draw out even more, there is the sense of bitterness and bitting criticism, where does this come up from? Am probing deeper here and in a general kind of way. Do we find ourselves often dwelling at the chattering level, where a reactionary impulse comes forth? If these things matter less to us than we propose, then why the penchant to divide up the camps, put a broad brushed label on them, pit one against the other and then dismiss the whole thing as Satanic?It's rather odd that a willingness to use the ways of the worlds thinking, 'their' particular language, to jump into the fray an give editorial comment and then extract oneself from the whole thing as being above it all. Seems to give that impression at any rate. In others words, "Why go there?"It's just food for thought. My opinion is just as worthless as the next but a concern for what we tend not to think about in these things. The finger pointing always has to start with ourselves and my own inclusion is to hear myself think out loud even as the words get typed. Are we asking the wrong questions? Making the wrong 'statements' to the greater body of believers out there? What about the difficulties in other nations and governments represented here? Do we not find it at all strange that these same ones do not come forth with the rhetoric of their representative politics from their particular countries? New Zealand and India and Australia and Britain and so on and so forth? Is it just us Americans who have a wide range of freedom and yes problems, but is it only us and especially as believers that are so taken with these things that a compulsion to just spew forth controversies and get embroiled in it all?Another way of looking at it. 'Right wing' and 'Left wing' is not fact or reality but created. It's to draw a line and setup a certain criteria and becomes a self fulfilling prophecy (not in the biblical sense). If you buy into the certain constructs of one 'side' then you are given to the 'party', to it's thinking or at least that is the sentiment behind it. If you hold to neither, than a judgment is presumed and someone will gladly put you into one or the other for you. It's all just a bit too easy when the issues cross over to both 'sides' and then the retractions and backpedaling and manipulating of reason and motive, sticking to 'party lines'... is it any wonder that the great cry of partisan politics comes up so often? Funny thing is, it's their own doing. They created it. The wrong question seems to be not whether Did Jesus lead a thousand or million man march to Rome to protest their political agenda against the Jews and try to get Caesar to pass more moral laws, forcing Roman citizens under law to live more moral lives (like modern Iran or Saudi Arabia) or did He preach the Kingdom Heaven and rivers of living water?No He did not, nor did He get embroiled in pointing out the fact that He didn't.Ever notice in the New Testament how lacking all this is? For all intents and purposes it is primarily ignored in particulars, those that we are want to get all caught up in. Instead it seems to be a submission to the rulers, how that must chaff us! Obviously we don't have to buy into any of it as thought per se, but as to conduct in abiding by the laws set forth that do not supersede scripture.Fully realize that there is a lot of truth still in much of these things and can easily get caught up in over generalizing or attempting to make the complex simple. "Christendom" is quite broad and entails both the nominal and the serious or devout, those, like many here are deeply serious about going on with the Lord. Maybe I am learning from all this interaction, have reversed course often and still am willing to do so.What I am finding more and more as the progression goes on, is to what really matters. How much of the things we can be so passionate about as they are current, fade off into oblivion as time moves forward. Just a look back over some of the things that have been brought out here. An example would be how there was such a great controversy over "The Passion of the Christ". Even before it was released, all the build up and speculations and opinions and presumptions, the great 'revival' that would be spurned on from it. When it was released it was given the once over and the dividing of camps more entrenched. One side supposing and proclaiming the multitudes would be soon ushered into the Kingdom while the naysayers and theologians tore it up over various disputes. And what happened when the dust finally settled? Not much. Where is it now in the conscience of Christians? Faded, past, distant. And to the masses? Did they come screaming into the Kingdom, repenting and turning to the Lord as was pronounced with such assurance?As long as the Lord tarries there will be the 'next thing' to draw away our attention, to get ourselves all up in arms about, one more item to bring about division, one more issue to vehemently oppose until the next one takes it's place. All the while eternity is put on the back burner for another day, death approaches and snaps at our heels. Our hearts are given short shift to concentrate on the topical, the current, the fleeting. Why did our Lord constantly draw our attentions inwardly to the matters at the core of our being and yet we are want to turn away from that? Even right now with such a reality, oddly and maybe paradoxically present in todays current event of great magnitude, the devastation off the coast. It just doesn't get any more 'practical' than this. It's not an object lesson, it's fact and reality in all it's brutality. There is nothing abstract about it nor any opinion necessary other than the presupposing of some who have deemed it necessary to pronounce Gods judgment on whatever particulars they have reasoned out of their fallen heads... Gods judgement is stated and fixed, how it gets worked out in effect... I just wonder at the ease that it comes from our lips often times, that's all, it's to dismiss the question altogether as the Lord did, to ask another and more searching one. If this isn't humbling enough for saint and sinner alike, that we are but dust heading for the wind, I don't know what it will take to bring this home to our souls.And that is perhaps all that I am attempting to drive at, what is going on there?

Hi Christisking and Neilgin1...While I believe that Americans should take a stand on political issues (especially issues that deal explicitly with the cause of undeniable righteousness), I agree that Christians should not "sell out" to either the right nor the left in an issue. I am reminded of what happened when Joshua met the Captain of the host of the Lord:13And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries? 14And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my Lord unto his servant? 15And the captain of the LORD's host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so.When Joshua asked the angel whose side he was on, the angel indicated that he was on the side of God. I must confess that I don't know for certain whether or not President George W. Bush is born again. I have never met him. However, I know that the President does claim to be a believer, and has given the testimony of his conversion on numerous occasions. But under the same thought, I don't know for certain whether you are saved either. I have not met you. Therefore, I cannot pass judgment on your spiritual condition. Likewise, it would be unhealthy for me to go around judging the heart of any man. We are permitted to judge the actions of a person, or the moral and doctrinal beliefs that people hold. But the heart and condition of a man is only truly understood by God. Unfortunately (and far too often), certain believers feel that they can know for certain a particular person's spiritual condition. Yes, you will know them by their fruit. But all too often, such "knowing" already contains preconceived judgment toward such individuals. Usually, a judgmental person will pick a single piece of fruit -- and judge the entire tree (or even orchard) by that one bad fruit. They are willing to condemn a person based on a such faulty evidence. Such judgmental behavior is immature and can be very damaging, both to themselves and others.I know that the far-left (including Hollywood celebrities, and many in the media) tend to hold quite a bit of hatred and disgust toward President Bush. But much of this hatred for him is due to his stands on certain moral issues (against abortion, against gay marriage, for the teaching of abstinence in sex education, for the teaching of creation and "intelligent design" in public schools, for public displays of religious faith, etc...). On these issues (that the media tends to attack the most), I stand behind the President. It is silly to label those who hold similar values as being "harlots" of the "right wing." Yes, there are those who vote by ignorance. But what is amazing is that the most socially and morally "conservative" ethnicities and races today hold these values, but often vote the opposite (source: 2002 General Social Survey).Should a Christian be involved in the political system? This question could be (and probably has been) debated for centuries. In a conventional two party system (like used in the United States), both parties are often out-of-touch with Christian doctrine, and have histories that demonstrate a lack of faith. I believe that no one (especially believers) should blindly support one party over another. They should understand the issues that are most important, and vote accordingly.Abortion, for instance, kills roughly 3,000-4,000 unborn babies per day! This is one of the major reasons that I vote the way that I do. While the number of abortions per year in the United States has fallen in recent years, there are still nearly a million legal abortions performed in this nation. While it is not always the case, it has become the norm for liberals (mostly Democrats) to support and fight for this practice (as part of the Party Caucus). There are, or course, exceptions for this. There are a few Democrats that oppose abortion. However, that is not the norm. The overwhelming majority support some sort of abortion rights legislation.There are many other issues that I consider in determining my vote. There are issues dealing with homosexuality, civil rights, crime control/prevention/punishment, and "free speech" (both protective and abusive). There are also economic, social and relational issues that also are webbed around the framework of our lives in this nation. A person who leaves the scene of an accident and fails to render aid can be charged with a crime in this country (the "Good Samaritan" laws). These people have the ability to act -- yet do nothing. They attempt to close their eyes and ears to a person in need. Unfortunately, many Christians evidently hold the same such guilt. They blame the entire political system as being "demonic" and fail to use their vote in order to take a stand against certain causes of unrighteousness, or make a difference with their vote. Paul used the political system of the Roman Empire in order to "appeal unto Caesar." He did this in order to bring the Gospel to Rome (then capital of the world), and eventually to "Caesar's household (Philippians 4:22)." God was able to use the local and state political system in order to steer David Wilkerson in his attempt to reach the hurting members of New York City's underworld in the 1950s and 1960s. You can also thank such political processes for your ability to write such a post on this message board today. In certain nations, such free expression would result in the death of both the writer and the reader.Thus, it is important that Christians don't hold a passive role in life. This week, I spoke to a dear old man of God who served as a "missionary" to Chile for many years during the 1950s-1990s. He told me of his struggles of preaching the Gospel to the indigenous people, and the wonderful experiences of seeing such unreached groups come to the knowledge of God. However, he said that the most opposition that he faced came from other ministers. Once, when many were dying from bacteria found in the water, this missionary told me that several of the other ministers just threw their hands in the air and said that this was "the will of God." My friend told them, "No, it was the bacteria in the water that killed these people." He said such pacifism is common amongst some of the older missionaries and pastors who believe that it is wrong to use such "worldly means" to bring about good. Thus, many turn their backs on the notion of bringing medical workers or teachers of anything other than the Bible. The same is sadly true with Christians. They have closed their door to the notion of getting involved in anything outside the Church, fellowship of believers, or Christian home. I have noticed that a few certain believers within the SermonIndex community are often vocal critics of President Bush. They use the forums as an opportunity to state biased political beliefs, and then feign that they are non-political. Interestingly, some of these same believers are very quiet when other politicians (particularly "liberal" politicians) spew hatred toward "conservative" beliefs, or toward the rights of believers in America. Perhaps they are not as "non-political" as they think.I do not consider myself a Republican or a Democrat. I could care less if I am white, black, or multi-racial. First and foremost, I am a Christian. The mind of Christ should dictate my life and my views. In some ways, I would be considered a political conservative. But on some issues, I would be considered a political liberal. I am not certain that an absolute liberal or an absolute conservative truly exists. This concept should be realized before "throwing stones" at fellow believers and considering them as "whores of the right wing." And we must also understand that, contrary to the popular cliché, not everything is "black and white." Only God (and his Word) is totally pure, and only sin is totally evil. None of us are perfect. Thus, there is alot of room for "grey" patience. We are all on the same journey, even though some of us may or may not be on different paths (either broad or narrow). I suggest that we start viewing one another with that same amount of patience. :-)

To the Jews the Romans were among the most cruel occupation force in their history. The silence of scriptures as far as anti-Roman or anti-government rhetorics are concerned is almost deafening. The only thing Jesus directly said about Caesar was for everyone to give him his due.Racial and political issues are often too tempting to get into even for Christians. The issue is at the core never about Bush, for example, but on the authority and position as president... IT is time I believe that we pause and ponder on things that move and motivate us.