Discipleship Unbiblical

I went to crosswalk.com and searched all translations for "discipleship" and it's no where to be found. You would think it would be somewhere in the bible considering the focus that modern Christianity puts on it.One of the greatest oppositions to street preaching is that they say we do not "disciple" people, that there is no "follow up".The reason that "discipleship" is not in any bible is because it implies someone is becoming a disciple rather then being a disciple. As soon as someone repents from their sins and believes the gospel they become a disciple. There is no becoming a disciple. You either have repented or you haven't. When you go out and preach repentance, you make disciples out of those who hear and obey. They instantly become disciples of Jesus Christ.No where in scripture is "follow up" mentioned either. Jesus never followed anyone around, people followed Jesus. If someone truly turns from their sin and turns to God then they will follow God whether or not they have to do it alone or with someone. Though, as Paul said, "all men forsook me" it doesn't matter because "the Lord stood with me".That is not to say that we should not mentor someone who wants to be mentored. Rather I am saying don't waste your time doing "follow-up" with a few people who aren't interested, when you could go and preach the gospel to the multitudes. But of coarse if you could get someones # or address so you could witness to them again or mail them a gospel tract, that is awesome.

Jesse, I understand where you are coming with this. But, there is SOME error in it. One way it's correct, the other falliable.It is correct if you say 'we don't need to follow-up on people to keep them Christians'.But it is in error with saying 'we don't need to disciple people'. This link. will provide you with ALL the scriptures that have 'disciples' in the verse, in the NASB translation.Discipleship, in as 'follow me as I follow Jesus' is NEEDED in the body of Christ today, that is RARLY seen; and truly neglected.I believe this scripture proves flaw to saying 'we don't need to disciple anyone'.Matthew 13: 3-9,18-23 (NASB) 3 And He spoke many things to them in parables, saying, "Behold, the sower went out to sow; 4 and as he sowed, some seeds fell beside the road, and the birds came and ate them up. 5 "Others fell on the rocky places, where they did not have much soil; and immediately they sprang up, because they had no depth of soil. 6 "But when the sun had risen, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away. 7 "Others fell among the thorns, and the thorns came up and choked them out. 8 "And others fell on the good soil and yielded a crop, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty. 9 "He who has ears, let him hear." 18 "Hear then the parable of the sower. 19 "When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is the one on whom seed was sown beside the road. 20 "The one on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, this is the man who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no firm root in himself, but is only temporary, and when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he falls away. 22 "And the one on whom seed was sown among the thorns, this is the man who hears the word, and the worry of the world and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful. 23 "And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who indeed bears fruit and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty." Why do I say this? Many new believers, INCLUDING MYSELF, had a genuine conversion. But no one had me founded on the Word of God. Many 'believers' (some say they aren't Christian, like Ray Comfort, i tend to differ, but still same point) hear God's word and accept it, but with no foundation how can they stand?Throughout the bible, PEOPLE HAD DISCIPLES, to learn or glean from. Or better yet 'mentors/fathers/mothers/mature of the faith' to teach and guide the new believers.Jesus had disciples (duh), Paul, Peter, many, just look up that link I provided.We need to help build the foundation, the foundation is NOT built in a day. ALWAYS REMEMBER THAT! It takes work and time. Tears and blood, it takes your entire being and the Power of the Holy Spirit.

A disciple is a follower of Jesus. A Christian is a follower of Jesus. Judas stopped following Jesus, so Judas stopped being a disciple. If he had godly sorrow that lead to repentance, not worldly sorrow which leads to death, he would have repented and started following Christ again as Peter did.A disciple and a Christian are the same thing.I am all for mentoring new Christians. I've had wonderful mentors myself. But they never sought after me, I sought after them. That is a mark of a true convert, they will seek out fellowship and read the Word on their own. I prayed with a man who was so convicted he would barely talk, just this friday. He was a hardcore thug looking guy, but the Law shattered him with conviction. After we prayed, I gave him my card and told him to call me anytime. Rather then getting someones number to follow them, give out your number and see if they truly hunger and thirst for fellowship and learning.Usually when people say to me "I don't like street ministry (aka evangelism) because you don't do any discipleship" what they mean is that I don't get the phone number of everyone I give a tract to. We have replaced biblical evangelism with a man made "follow up". But unless a man repent, he is not a disciple, and cannot be discipled. You don't need to follow unbelievers around and try to disciple them. If someone repents from all their sins, invite them to your church and tell them to come to bible study. But if a man doesn't repent, I wouldn't invite him to come and fellowship at Church. It will damage and pollute the Church. But in our day we would rather the world comes to us, then for us to go to the world (because we don't want to evangelize). The Church is where Christians need to be fed, the highways and the hedges is where Christians are to tell nonbelievers to come into Christ. (to through in my thoughts on the seeker sensative teachings).In the words of Emeal Zwayne "people who need people to walk with God, don't walk with God, they walk with people."

Okay, let me post more vivdly, hopefully you will understand it all and realize we are all saying the same thing.One, Jesse your orginal post can EASILY be taken a wrong way. It ALMOST sounds like you are saying 'discipleship is of the devil, we don't need to teach them and encourage new believers'.Also, to the rest of the posters. Posting about 'anti-street preaching' where did that come from?? It's like being in a class and the teacher is teaching about math and a student asks the teacher about History. Where is that person's mind? If you go that from what I typed, I wasn't posting anything against 'street-preachers' but against brother Jesse's post. I personally have felt God 'put a seed' within me about street preaching. And I'll let Him finish the work that He has started. By all means, anyone to say 'street-preaching is no good' should also say 'Jesus should've been quite in public, and John the baptist, and Isaiah and the rest of them.' It's riduculous to say 'there is no need for that'. (I'll leave it at that, cause I could talk about how much the church NEEDS and others say 'its fine', and I bet you all could too).Jesse said this "But if a man doesn't repent, I wouldn't invite him to come and fellowship at Church. It will damage and pollute the Church. But in our day we would rather the world comes to us, then for us to go to the world (because we don't want to evangelize). The Church is where Christians need to be fed, the highways and the hedges is where Christians are to tell nonbelievers to come into Christ. (to through in my thoughts on the seeker sensative teachings)."I think that's a biblical principle that people ignore and they brush it off like its just dust on their shoulder. Let's NOT bring leaven in the church, but remove that which is already there.I hope that cleared alot of the stuff up.

You cannot be saved from the wrath of God without being saved from your sin. Forgiveness and deliverance, also known as justification and sanctification, are two seperate shoes, but yet the same pair. You cannot truly walk right with God if you only wear on of those shoes, you need both.If you continued on in sin; sinning, sinning, sinning, and never repenting, you certainly were not saved from your sin. As Tozer would say, you cannot have Jesus as your Savior now and then later decide to have Him as your Lord. That is why "unless you repent, you will all likewise perish" Luke 13:3But, Conqueror, I rejoice that you have now repented and do not continue in sin; that you are more then a conqueror of temptation through Christ.To be truest to it's term, I would say that I do believe in what many call "discipleship". I have and am being discipled, and when I lead Christians out on the streets to witness I consider that part of discipleship for them as well. To make an official statement, I would say this; I believe in evangelizing the unsaved, and discipling the saved.However, I do not believe that a lack of follow up is the cause of backslidings. I do not believe that you need to follow around a believer or else he will fall away. Sure, he may fall away, backsliding is possible. But if someone decides to sin and then refuse to repent (which is what makes a backslider), then he is responsible for himself, and not any other. He is a backslider because he decided he loved his sin more then his soul; more then Christ, and he refused to obey God. If a man loves his sin, a man calling him to tell him to repent is only going to be an irritation and a frustation. We should certainly witness to a backslider. But the reason people backslide isn't because of a lack of follow-up, it's because they love their sin (usually, though not always, caused by not preaching the Law before grace). You can't put the responsibility of a mans backsliding on any other person other then the backslider.(ps. The name of the thread was just to get attention.)

Jesse, I found this statement very helpful.If he had godly sorrow that lead to repentance, not worldly sorrow which leads to death, he would have repented and started following Christ again as Peter did.Thanks.Having read the whole thread so far, I guess you guys are all saying something close to each other.There is a great deal of truth in this too - that people will believe into the gospel message which was preached to them.I'm not sure how the call to repentance should be tempered with the offer of healing (for sins committed against the person who is coming to the Lord) but, I believe the lack of separating these issues clearly, also leaves new believers weak; it leaves the church weak. One thing which needs to be made clear to those who need healing, at an early stage in discussing their needs with them, is that Jesus died for all sin - including the sin of those who harmed them. The acceptance of this fact speeds up that new believer's ability to move on in God, even if their own deep healing will be on-going for a while to come.On the subject of 'unscriptural' I'd say quite defintely, the Bible does not say that healing is 'in the atonement'. I'm not seeking to sidetrack this thread - was thinking of starting one on this topic myself - but for you preachers who might not read a thread on healing, I commend to you a study on the example Jesus set in this regard, and also, a study in the Old Testament will show that healing..... ?Well now, what does it show? I'll let you investigate for yourselves. :-)I do recognise repentance is the core call which must sound to all.

Sounds good.

My conclusion is this:Discipleship is good if it's with the right person for the right reason.The right person would be a Christian. Someone who is genuinely desiring spiritual growth.The right reason is to build someone up in the faith, not to keep someone in the faith. The basis of a man's salvation must be Christ, not another man.

Um, i was thinking about this.When Christ called the 12 forward, did He call them disciples instantly? (Not as I can remember)And who else did Christ or anyone in the bible call a 'disciple' and WHEN were they called it? (immediatly, or after a period of time)This is my challenge to firmly root what the bible says. (one way or the other).

What about the relationship between Moses and Joshua?I do believe that community as exemplified by the Acts 2:42 passage is a form of discipleship.Maybe discipleship is a form of mentoring and accountability.I think you might be missing the mark by saying discipleship is unbiblical.

I do believe just leading someone to Christ and not discipling that person is like leaving someone to the wolvesamen.

ps. The name of the thread was just to get attentionoh man don't that no more, I thought you believed that. the bit about discipleship being unbiblical and all.you also wrote: But the reason people backslide isn't because of a lack of follow-up, it's because they love their sin that line might be fine for ole Paris Reidhead, but in my humble opinion, sinners are slaves to their sin. Love has nothing to do with it, it's old time bondage, slavery, chains and the works. There's a blessed Saviour Who takes away the sins of the world, saves the world, Who cuts the chains and frees the captives.forgive me, I'm preaching to the choir, but bro. Jesse, be careful that you don't fall into the trap of spiritual arrogance, any man can fall at any time for any reason. None of us are exempt from that miserable reality.God bless you beloved brother.