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Theology

Preaching and Teaching

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Nasher Nov 13, 2003

What is the difference (if any) between preaching and teaching?The first time the word preach is used (in the AV) is in Nehemiah 6:7And thou hast also appointed prophets to preach of thee at Jerusalem, saying, There is a king in Judah: and now shall it be reported to the king according to these words. Come now therefore, and let us take counsel together.The Hebrew word here is qaraÆ and here is the Strong's lexicon definition:07121. qaraÆ kaw-raw’; a primitive root [rather identical with 07122 through the idea of accosting a person met]; to call out to (i.e. properly, address by name, but used in a wide variety of applications):—bewray [self], that are bidden, call (for, forth, self, upon), cry (unto), (be) famous, guest, invite, mention, (give) name, preach, (make) proclaim(-ation), pronounce, publish, read, renowned, say. The first time the word teach is used (in the AV) is in Exodus 4:12Now therefore go, and I will be with thy mouth, and teach thee what thou shalt say.The Hebrew word here is yarah and here is the Strong's lexicon definition:03384. yarah yaw-raw’; or (#2Ch 26:15) yaraÆ yaw-raw’; a primitive root; properly, to flow as water (i.e. to rain); transitively, to lay or throw (especially an arrow, i.e. to shoot); figuratively, to point out (as if by aiming the finger), to teach:— (+) archer, cast, direct, inform, instruct, lay, shew, shoot, teach(-er, -ing), through. Here are some verses that include both preach and teach to get us started:Matthew 4:23And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease among the people.Matthew 11:1Now it came to pass, when Jesus finished commanding His twelve disciples, that He departed from there to teach and to preach in their cities.Acts 28:31preaching the kingdom of God and teaching the things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ with all confidence, no one forbidding him.Romans 2:21You, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that a man should not steal, do you steal?Colossians 1:28Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.2 Timothy 4:2Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching.

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todd Nov 16, 2003

I think a simple way to look at it is this:Preachers proclaim the truth; teachers talk about it.

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philologos Nov 17, 2003

Preachers proclaim the truth; teachers talk about it. I often share the platform at conferences with a brother here in the UK and abroad. He sometimes says 'I like working with you; you explain why I believe what I believe'. I usually reply 'I like working with you; you tell them what to do with it'.This isn't the whole story of the difference between a preacher and a teacher but it is a definite ingredient.For a bit more detail I would recommend you look at the words used. The word for preacher in the OT and NT usually has links with someone who lifts up his voice; hence a herald. The thrust of his work is usually an heraldic proclamation and his purpose to to provoke a response in the hearer. It is aggressive and penetrating and it will often have a prophetic edge to it; this is the day, thou art the man. You can almost see the pointed finger. The teacher's role is more in terms of pastoral provision. It systematises truth and has in mind 'the full assurance of understanding'. These hands are open to guide, reassure and feed.

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lwpray Nov 17, 2003

Dear Ron,Please, allow me to declare that your graphic deciphering of the two offices receives highest ranking out here.Lars

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Nasher Nov 17, 2003

I know this is going off topic but this was my reasoning behind asking the first question, in 1 timothy 2:12 it says:12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.(NKJV)Are women allowed to preach to men in Churches?

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philologos Nov 19, 2003

12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.(NKJV)Are women allowed to preach to men in Churches?Are you making a conscious distinction between preach and teach?

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Nasher Nov 19, 2003

Are you making a conscious distinction between preach and teach?Not at this point I hope, I'm trying to get one of you lot to do it. ;-)

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philologos Nov 19, 2003

Not at this point, I'm trying to get one of you lot to do it ah, but one of the greatest services a teacher can do it to get the student to ask the right questions. ;-)

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Nasher Nov 19, 2003

Ok then, here's what I really want to know - what are women not allowed to do in the Church that men are allowed to do in the Church? :-? Are there any exceptions? :-o

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philologos Nov 19, 2003

Hi NasherI'm not going to give a definitive answer but here are some comments..Some years ago a UK preacher, David Pawson, wrote a book entitled 'Leadership is Male'. This book caused a fair bit of upset, especially among the missionary community. I have a lot of sympathy with Pawson's book but I would like to change the title; I would prefer 'Authority is Male'.I know sisters who have very great gifts and I am happy to tuck in behind them. We have sisters in our church who can 'lead' the whole church when they pray; they can set the theme and pattern and others will follow them. I believe this is acceptable from a scriptural point of view. I tend to see 'leadership' as an event rather than as an office.Authority and government is of another nature and I do not believe it is appropriate for a sister to hold continuing authority in the church. That 'in the church' is added very deliberately. I think it is 'in the church' that the pattern of headship and authority reveals that 'authority is male'. Here, in the UK, we have a queen and we used to have a female prime minister; I have no problems with these functions being in the hands of a woman. The church is to be a demonstation NOW, to principalities and powers in the heavenelies, of the manifold wisdom of God. Eph 3:10 In that sense the church gathered together, under its Head, has a different set of principles at work than the outside world (or even parachurch organisations). In my understanding it has nothing to do with superiority or spirituality but is part of the 'image' that is built into Christ and His church. I would love to hear what others have to say on this issue.

sermonindex Nov 19, 2003

what are women not allowed to do in the Church that men are allowed to do in the Church? :-? Well tackling your first question: Are women allowed to preach? and I would answer prophesy YES preach and teach NO.1 Timothy 2:12 (kjv) - But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in slience.1 Corinthians 11:16 (kjv) - But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.What paul is basically saying is, this is how the church of God runs and if you don't like it TO BAD this is the way its going to be!

sermonindex Nov 19, 2003

I would prefer 'Authority is Male'.I wouldn't prefer, I would stand on that as truth! because the Scriptures state it! The sad problem our days is that men aren't if you wish, stepping up to the plate spiritually. God is looking for Men of God that he can count worthy to suffer for His name. Who is going to hear the call?an intresting document to read:The First Blast of the TrumpetAgainst the Monstrous Regiment of Women (1558) by John Knoxhere are a few excerpts:O that both man and woman should consider the profound counsel and admonition of this father! He would not that man for appetite of any vain glory should desire preeminence above woman. For God has not made man to be head for any such cause, but having respect to that weakness and imperfection which always lets [hinders] woman to govern. He has ordained man to be superior; and that Chrysostom means, saying, "Then is the body in best proportion when it has the best governor. But woman can never be the best governor, by reason that she, being spoiled [deprived] of the spirit of regiment, can never attain to that degree to be called or judged a good governor; because in the nature of all [every] woman lurks such vices as in good governors are not tolerable."[71] Which the same writer expresses in these words, "Womankind," says he, "is rash and fool-hardy; and their covetousness is like the gulf of hell, that is insatiable."[72] And therefore in another place, he wills that woman shall have nothing to do in judgment, in common affairs, or in the regiment of the commonwealth (because she is impatient of troubles), but that she shall live in tranquility and quietness. And if she has occasion to go from the house, that yet she shall have no matter of trouble, neither to follow her, neither to be offered unto her, as commonly there must be to such as bear authority. And therefore yet again I repeat, that which before I have affirmed: to wit, that a woman promoted to sit in the seat of God (that is, to teach, to judge, or to reign above man) is a monster in nature, contumely to God, and a thing most repugnant to his will and ordinance. For he has deprived them, as before is proved, of speaking in the congregation, and has expressly forbidden them to usurp any kind of authority above man. How then will he suffer them to reign and have empire above realms and nations? He will never, I say, approve it, because it is a thing most repugnant to his perfect ordinance, as after shall be declared, and as the former scriptures have plainly given testimony. To the which to add anything were superfluous, were it not that the world is almost now come to that blindness, that whatsoever pleases not the princes and the multitude, the same is rejected as doctrine newly forged, and is condemned for heresy. I have therefore thought good to recite the minds of some ancient writers in the same matter, to the end that such as altogether be not blinded by the devil, may consider and understand this my judgment to be no new interpretation of God's scriptures, but to be the uniform consent of the most part of godly writers since the time of the apostles. Authority and government is of another nature and I do not believe it is appropriate for a sister to hold continuing authority in the church.I do believe in a few places scriptures cleary state that is shameful for a nation to be governed by a women? maybe I am sorely mistaken.. I will try and find those verses.

sermonindex Nov 19, 2003

I do believe in a few places scriptures cleary state that is shameful for a nation to be governed by a women? maybe I am sorely mistaken.. I will try and find those verses.that to promote a woman to bear rule or empire above any realm, nation, or city, is repugnant to nature, contumely [an insult] to God, and a thing most contrary to his revealed and approved ordinance; and because also, that some have promised (as I understand) a confutation of the same.-John Knoxstill can't find that verse? does it ring a bell with anyone?

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philologos Nov 19, 2003

Well tackling your first question: Are women allowed to preach? and I would answer prophesy YES preach and teach NO.Now we really are going to have to define 'preaching'. ;-) One of the words translated 'preaching' in the KJV is 'euaggelizO' or evangelise. It is the word used in Acts 5:42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ. I don't think this verse just means the apostles.If we stick to the letter of the scripture this would make the distinction between preaching and teaching very important, as the scriptures clearly do not allow a sister to 'teach', but is preaching the same as teaching?

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Nasher Nov 20, 2003

I think they are different because the bible uses both words to express different things; I have singled out below a few sentences where they are both used in the same verses:Matthew 4:23And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease among the people.Here Jesus teaches in the synagogues, but was he also preaching there?Acts 28:31preaching the kingdom of God and teaching the things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ with all confidence, no one forbidding him.Here we have Paul preaching the kingdom of God, I have done a word search and the word for teach is not linked with the word 'gospel' or 'kingdom', the word preach is always used. I wonder what things Paul was teaching concerning the Lord Jesus Christ.Colossians 1:28Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.It seems as though preaching is connected to warning, and teaching is connected to wisdom.I think you have said something similar already, it seems as though preaching is more public, more heraldic, more 'lively'; whereas teaching seems to be more private, more instructional.Although I think preaching and teaching are different I do concede that someone teaching could flow into preaching, and someone preaching could flow into teaching.Where does this leave us in regards to women? :-?

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Nasher Nov 26, 2003

Has anyone got any light to shed on this?

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philologos Nov 26, 2003

Where does this leave us in regards to women? :-? Hi NasherThey should be 'given their place' not 'put in it'. :-D By which I really mean that I would prefer to open up as much as possible as long as it is consistent with scriptural parameters.The reason I asked earlier about 'teachers' is that I wanted to provoke thought about the function of a teacher in the 1st century. For example, they would not be expounding Ephesians or the finer points of the Revelation as these writings simply didn't exist at that time. So what were they doing? I think they would be systemising 'revelation' and because this is is inevitably linked to authority I think that is the area which is forbidden to 'woman'.There is a persistent link between teaching and authority in the scripture and I think this is where the prohibitions count. I don't think preaching in the sense of 'evangelise' or 'proclaim' is forbidden to 'woman'. Prayer and prophesy are specifically sanctioned as long as the woman is covered. (Now this could get another thread going! I suggest it be called 'why is 'man' not allowed to cover his head?' For those like myself who no longer have much natural covering that is the major issue. ;-) ) The particular prohibition is 'teaching' which is why I wanted to explore that area and, if possible, to distinguish things that differ.The spectrum of Christian interpretation is very wide. At one extremity women have been constrained to absolute silence so that they are not even handed a hymn book at the beginning of the meeting. The opposite extremity is to say that these were merely cultural constraints and can be safely abandoned so that a woman may now be the 'senior elder' or 'ruling minister'.

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Nasher Nov 26, 2003

Hi Philologos, I'm not familiar with 'systemising revelation', what is/was that?

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philologos Nov 26, 2003

Hi NasherThat's a good question. I think what I am searching for is a process as distinct from a crisis. The secret things belong to God but the things that are revealed are ours forever. This was the testimony of Israel after God had given them the law. This foundational revelation became the responsibility of the priests; For the priest‘s lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts. Malachi 2:7 The priests 'held' the revelation but were not the original agents of the revelation. The foundational 'revelation' was added to through the testimony of the prophets and became part of the 'book' for which the priests held responsibility.In Jewish history the greatest man after Moses is Ezra who taught the people in the company of the Levites; And Nehemiah, which is the Tirshatha, and Ezra the priest the scribe, and the Levites that taught the people, said unto all the people, This day is holy unto the LORD your God; mourn not, nor weep. For all the people wept, when they heard the words of the law. Nehemiah 8:9 Moses is the prophet, Ezra is the Teacher.The priest (teachers of the law) seemed to consolidate the revelation. This seems to have been a pattern in church history too with a second man often 'systemising' the revelation of the first. e.g. Luther and Melanchthon, Fox and Barclay, Wesley and Clarke, Booth and Brengle.I recognise that this is a hypothesis, but I see a pattern in the order of the gifts expressed in Ephesians 4 ie And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers. The pastor/teacher function coming at the end of the list. The apostle is foundational, the prophet is directional, the evangelist is expansionist, the pastor/teacher is conservationist. I think Timothy and Titus were almost certainly pastor/teachers. Note that these were not residential roles but itinerant functions. Timothy and Titus would have remained in situ for longer or shorter periods according to need.When I write these things I am trying to feel the shape of the NT functions. Added to these itinerants were the local residential giftings which functioned within the local church.

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Nasher Nov 27, 2003

Thanks Ron, would there be any difference where a person was teaching in regards to authority?i.e. in a church building as opposed to a field.

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