Evolution Trial Arguments End

and round we go again hey Bub?God lives beyond time and space and could easily use evolution in such a way that no one would be able to detect His involvement. the question is not what God could have done, but what has He said He's done (in His Word)?Could you supply a few verses of Scripture to support your belief that God used evolution, over millions of years?mat

Exd 20:11 For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

He has no scripture other than saying the Genesis is symbolic. If Genesis is symbolic so is Christ. We know that Christ is not symbolic. He was a real man who walked the earth.

How do you metaphorize Genesis? What does each day represent? Is the order of what was created correct, reguardless of time?

2 Peter 3:7-9 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. This passage has NOTHING to do with creation but is concerned with God's judgement on the wicked, it merely demonstrates that He is outside of time but not that He cannot convey what He means to us, Ex 20:11 is pretty obvious!also look at Luke 3 verse 23 till the end of the chapter please tell us when it becomes metaphor.Read Romans 5:12,14,17 Paul obviously believed in an literal Adam also 1 Cor 15:22,Romans 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. who are you trusting believeing in evolution?matt

Honestly I do not know what the big deal was about this court case. I.D. is not young earth creation science or biblical creationism. In actuary terms there should be no reason that evolutionists should object to the inclusion of Intelligent Design since both theories adhere to the same basic idea of gradual increasing biological diversity over billions of years. The main difference is that I.D. allows for a theistic cause...a theistic evolution. I.D. is simply the result of some theorists who were smart enough to admit that science can't measure or see everything...just some energy and matter. Apparently this isn't good enough for the evolutionists who insist that the universe is nothing but energy and matter. Evolutionists hold out for a godless universe even while there are monumental gaps in their naturalistic explanations for even the first living cell.The philosophical commitment to the irrelevancy of God is the only feature that ultimately distinguishes Evolution from Intelligent Design.MC

This article has probably been buried for a while, but I happened across it, and thought a point should be made.I am a strict creaionist. What the Bible says is what happened. That's all there is to it. Now, I'm not a scholar, especially in this area, but as I see it, I don't need to be.Why? Because it's what God said. We have an established Canon of scripture, compiled by men, but in a way, and using a process, so that we would have the truth. That's what we call our Bible.The problem that I have, is when people try to make the strict Word of God fit their theinking.I suppose that if I tried really hard, and spent the time, I could show you how all of the sin that the Bible shows us is really derived of fig trees, and that if we just burned all of the fig trees in the world, we would be without sin. Now, you would think I was crazy, and rightfully so. Why? Becuase that's not what God said! It's an idea that I came up with, and looked for ways to make it right, twisting scripture to do so.Bubbaguy, you have some very interesting ideas, but I don't agree with you. For the simple reason stated above, that when we start to make scripture fit our ideas, we get into trouble.Now, this problem goes so far beyond evolution. How do you get a church that teaches that homosexuality is not sinful? By claiming that we're all sinners, and therefore, it's just another sin, no worse, and therefore acceptable? That's exactly it! THEREFORE- we interpret scripture to mean what we want it to!Now, not to disrespect you, bubbaguy. You sound like you've spent quite a bit of time studying this. But don't let your doctrine be shaped by what your thinking. Rather, let your doctrine shape your thinkig. Grace and Peace...

In evolution theory the Robustus branch dies out; more specifically they were hunted to extinction and eaten by the hunting tools welding Australeopithicine Afarensis. Then later the Neandertals break off from AAs and migrate north. After that, they either die out or they are genetically assimilated into the rest of humanity. I have been reading evolutionary theory for some time now but it has not lost its power to leave me 'open mouthed'. 'they were hunted to extinction and eaten'? Does someone have a photograph of this? or have we found a diary? It couldn't be speculation could it? not when expressed with such certainty?

Charles Darwin believed in God.To be clear evolution does not technically deny the existance of God, although neo-darwinian leaders like Dawkins and Gould certainly implied this. Evolution denies God's relevance and participation in his own creation. Evolution is a godless process. If it wasn't, then it would by default become Intelligent Design.As soon as you admit that blind nature can not animate minerals into life all on it's own you are admitting the plausibility of Intelligent Design.This is why I can't really understand why evolutionists, especially Christian evolutionists, are so vehemently opposed to Intelligent Design. In fact, I would have thought that creationists would have been more opposed to ID...as ID is as much evolution as it is Special Creationism. Apparently evolutionists are more fundamentalist in their beliefs then many Christians are. ;-) MC

Had a hunch this was going to be back up again this morning...Mere men! There was almost a bit of honesty eking through in the mention of evolutionary theory until it keeps coming out as fact.Does someone have a photograph of this? or have we found a diary? It couldn't be speculation could it? not when expressed with such certainty? It's just absurd and would even go as far to say that even the opposite rationale goes off into all kinds of the same style rationalizing, speculating, theorizing ... Australeopithicine Afarensis. Now we are to believe scientists to give us explanations by slapping a goofy name on a speculation and making that 'fact'? Or To call the God of the universe an Intelligent Designer? This may be a deep dark secret but have to wonder if it has been forgotten that there is a canopy of stars above their heads that declares the glory of Him who created all things. By happenstance this morning:Ecc 11:5 As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit, nor how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with child: even so thou knowest not the works of God who maketh all. Is it not miracle enough to realize that you sit here breathing and typing and call to mind...Ecc 12:1 Remember now thy Creator in the days of thy youth, while the evil days come not, nor the years draw nigh, when thou shalt say, I have no pleasure in them; Ecc 12:2 While the sun, or the light, or the moon, or the stars, be not darkened, nor the clouds return after the rain: Ecc 12:3 In the day when the keepers of the house shall tremble, and the strong men shall bow themselves, and the grinders cease because they are few, and those that look out of the windows be darkened, Ecc 12:4 And the doors shall be shut in the streets, when the sound of the grinding is low, and he shall rise up at the voice of the bird, and all the daughters of musick shall be brought low; Ecc 12:5 Also when they shall be afraid of that which is high, and fears shall be in the way, and the almond tree shall flourish, and the grasshopper shall be a burden, and desire shall fail: because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets: Ecc 12:6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern. Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. What was answered Job after the long explanations, chapter after chapter? Or was this too mere metaphor? This want of stripping out all the miraculous, denying what was written because we must have a 'logical' explanation, again what was answered Job? And what was Job's response? Just the very beginning of response from God Himself ought to be enough;Job 38:1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said, Job 38:2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Job 38:3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me. Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. This picking and choosing, both sides attempting in vain to 'explain' everything from Noah's flood to disbelieving the miracles wrought through the Lord Jesus Christ or at best giving some man made reasoning as to how they were preformed. Have we forgotten the element of belief?Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith. Interesting tie there with Noah's 'metaphor'. There was a point awhile back from someone making mention of a comment from David Ravenhill and what I do recall was he said something to the effect of "The Lord could have created the world a million years old for all I care". I would concur. Do we really think that there is going to be some kind of end to all this speculation, that we might convince ourselves that we are 'intelligent' enough to do what Job couldn't do even after he was practically waylaid by that which most likely not a one of us in our comfy confines will ever experience...Ah, but we have 'evolved' since then....Rubbish. Pure rubbish. I am so glad the Lord choose stupid fisherman and tax collectors to put a burning fire of His Spirit into, took a very intelligent, zealous Pharisee and blinded him, extracted out all the things he counted as...Phi 3:4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: Phi 3:5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; Phi 3:6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. Phi 3:7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Phi 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, Phi 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: Phi 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; Phi 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. You can go on attempting to dissect Gods word, His scriptures, all you want, but they are stuck together as sure as the testimony of our Lords own words, one context with one central purpose;Joh 5:36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me. Joh 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. Joh 5:38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not. Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. I know there is a rebuttal coming and another explanation about throwing our brains in the trash. It's old and it's tired and the failure rate to convince anyone doesn't dissuade one iota... But consider this. Will you continue to plant spurious things into young minds of the faith? Cast doubts upon the scripture and forget these admonitions and sentiment;Mat 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. Mat 18:7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh! Tit 1:9 holding to the faithful word which is according to the teaching, that he may be able to exhort in the sound doctrine, and to convict the gainsayers. Tit 1:10 For there are many unruly men, vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision, Tit 1:11 whose mouths must be stopped; men who overthrow whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake. Tit 1:12 One of themselves, a prophet of their own, said, Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, idle gluttons. Tit 1:13 This testimony is true. For which cause reprove them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith, Tit 1:14 not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men who turn away from the truth.

aright here is the bomb that was dropped by my preacher on this belief. even if you wanna say six days is a thousand years or a million years or a billion years you cannot believe in evolution and stand on new testament theology. and this is what he brought up. Evolution says that the first organism began, it reproduced and died, another began and reproduced and died. so on and so forth a cycle of life and death that we are used to looking at. The only problem is DEATH DID NOT EXIST B4 SIN. and evolution says countless millions of organisms died before the first man even came on the scene.Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned—1 Corinthian 15:21 For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead.anyways that's what i've heard.be blessedMatt

Does believing in evolution bring you closer to God? Don't you just want to know Christ and nothing else?

This is disputed. Most think he lost his faith in God when he lost his daughter. Even Christian apologists have admitted that the lack of positive atheistic statements from Darwin may have come from his reticence in upsetting his believing wife. Stephen Hawking had a similar path.

This is from a PM Bubbaguy sent me showing me 'common points' with Genesis and evolution. With permission I have posted it here:"the earth was formless and empty" -- Original state of universe is a void"Let there be Light" -- Big Bang releases Radiant EnergyNight and Day are divided -- Planetary systems developSeparation of the Waters -- Comets deposit water on earthWaters gathered into one place, land emerges -- PangeaThe "earth" brings forth life -- Complex earth chemistry begets lifePlants, sea animals, cattle -- Increasing complexity of life formsMan given dominion -- Protoman emerges as dominant animal"every seed bearing plant for food" -- Protoman is an herbivoreWe eat forbidden fruit -- Scavenging of meat beginsIncreased pain in childbirth -- Running requires narrower hipsEating on the plains -- Forests shrink, nomadic behavior beginsGod gives us animal skins to wear -- Transition to huntingCain and Abel -- Erectus/Australeopithicine dualismCain kills Abel -- Australeopithicines disappearCain, the restless wanderer -- Erectus migration into Asia, EuropeSeth, Man begins to "call" upon the Lord -- Neanderthals, speech appearsNoah and family survive flood -- Small group, out of Africa theoryNoah plants a vineyard -- Agrarian communities begin

Bubbaguy,First off, where does death (which is caused by sin) originate from? God or man's rebellion?Edit: I changed the sentance above to say originate instead of come.