Gehenna and Hades

I have mentioned this before, but thought I would again. It is interesting how as philologos says, words in the bible have 'histories.' And that being, Genenna has its roots in a place in the Old Testament called Tophet. Tophet I suppose would be the root of the word for hell in the bible. Tophet was a place where babies would be placed on the outstretched arms of a metal idol that had a fire lit inside. Paris Reidhead said there was a different way also in which a hot fire was made to burn in a 'throttling' furnace and the first born sons were tossed into the center of that raging and breath taking heat. People sacrificed their first born children (not always a male) to this false god in this way to gain 'ascendancy' among their peers.We learn from scholars that the horrific deeds of the children of Israel who would place their children on the red hot arms were not enough to fully smother their conscience to the screams of those children as they went into the flames; hence, the screams had to be drowned out. The Hebrew word "Tophet" signifies the beating of drums. These drums would beat and the screams could not be heard. What a horrific sight! Yet, this is the first real picture we have of hell. A place of fire and screams and drum beating to ground out that reality.As I recall it was Josiah who cleaned this area up and made it a trash dump. You may know it as the valley of Hinnom- or Gehenna in Greek. A place that burned with trash outside the city continually.Drums, drums, the sound of beating drums. I have preached this many times and asked, "what are the 'drums' in your life?" What are you using to cancel out the horrors of hell and distance your conscious mind from that reality? The things that distract us from the reality and finality of hell are those drums. What a picture? That God had showed from the beginning what man would do with this place called hell; he would spend his days drowning out the screams.

Did you say Paris Reidhead mentioned that in a sermon? Which sermon? Do you, Robert, have a sermon on here mentioning it?

It is in "The Dangers of Third Generation Religion" by Reidhead

David Pawson mentioned this in one of his tape sermons. He was speaking about the other guy on the cross to whom Jesus said; "today you will be with me in paradise". Apparently, paradise means "palace gardens", and if that is where those who trust and obey God go when they die and before judgement day; then is there an alternative 'waiting room' (?) (before the second coming and judgement day) for those who did not trust and obey God (presumably 'Hades')?

Hi,I am new member to this discussion. I browsed around and found very interesting topics to read about.The below links have more information on this topic. There is also the audio of the message. Outer Darkness_1Outer Darkness_2Outer Darkness_3

David Pawson mentioned this in one of his tape sermons. He was speaking about the other guy on the cross to whom Jesus said; "today you will be with me in paradise". Apparently, paradise means "palace gardens", and if that is where those who trust and obey God go when they die and before judgement day; then is there an alternative 'waiting room' (?) (before the second coming and judgement day) for those who did not trust and obey God (presumably 'Hades')?The OT term Sheol is the equivalent of the Septuagint/NT term Hades.In the OT, Sheol is the intermediate place of the dead for both the people of God and other peoples. In the intertestamental period, some Jewish writings distinguish two regions within Hades, one is the abode of the dead righteous, the other is the abode of the evil. The lines are not as clear-cut in the OT and NT, although it can discerned in certain passages (e.g. Luke 16).Nevertheless, in the OT, the righteous in Hades have the promise of being delivered from the place, subsequently understood as the general resurrection of the righteous.The NT data is complicated by the reference to "paradise" in Luke 23:43, to the "bosom of Abraham" in Luke 16:23 and other references to the dead believers being with Christ and God immediately after death (e.g 2 Cor 5:6-8; Phil 1:23; Rev 6:9).On the basis of Acts 2:31 (an allusion to Ps. 16:10) where it says, "David by foreseeing this spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that he was neither abandoned to Hades, nor did his body experience decay," I think even the Lord had to go through the place of the dead designated Hade (if indeed the reference to Hades here is literal, not figurative), but he came out victorious.If that is so, everyone goes to Hades after death, awaiting our resurrection to glory or for the unbelievers, to the lake of fire. But it would appear that the people of God experience the bliss of the presence of the Lord even during the intermediate state.

Scripture Gehenna is the lake of fire, the place of eternal punishment after the resurrection. Hades is the intermediate place where souls await resurrection.Indeed, Scripture does distinguish 2 places:(1) "Hell" (Hebrew "sheol"; Greek "hades"):a place for confinememt for departed souls, prior to resurrection and judgment (see Luke 16:23).(2) "Gehenna" or "the lake of fire":a place of final, unendng punishment for the wicked, after resurrection and judgment (see Revelation 20:12-15).Now turn in your Bible to Revelation 21:8.In Revelation 21:8 we are told that eight different kinds of people will go into the lake of fire:(1) The fearful(2) The unbelieving(3) the abominable(4) murders(5) whore mongers(6) sorcerers(7) Idolaters(8) All liarsNotice the first 2 classes of the condemned listed in that passage are: the "fearful" and the "unbelieving."Now ask yourself many "religious" people are included?

It should be noted that the word "hell" is totally foreign to the original Scriptures. The word was supplied by the translators of the KJV, and thus the word became accepted by all. This is at best a misrepresentation.The fact is that the word "hell" is common and accepted in English because of the KJV. But in other languages, for example French, this word is not found in ANY of the various French translations. The translators have kept the originals "sheol", "gehenna" and "hades"; often supplying a explanatory footnote.Manfred

Whether you want to call it "hell" or "sheol" or "hades" or whatever? What would it matter? In fact, in Jesus' day, if someone were to have called Him, Jesus. Nobody would have even known who they were even talking about.

"Gehenna" or "the lake of fire":Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that this place shall no more be called Tophet, nor The valley of the son of Hinnom, but The valley of slaughter. (Jeremiah 19:6)Tophet, as I referred to in an earlier post was synonomous with 'Hinnom' (Hebrew) which came to be known as Gehenna (Greek). As Ron Bailey would say, Bible words have histories. There is a post somewhere in these forums way back that traces some of the elements of Hell based upon the various facets of the development of the word 'Gehenna'. Horrible and sobering picture it is.

Whether you want to call it "hell" or "sheol" or "hades" or whatever? What would it matter? It matters because the popular conception of "hell" is the place where eternal perdition takes place. But "Sheol" and "Hades" refer to the intermediate place of the dead. If we use "hell" for it, it confuses the distinction between Hades/Sheol and Gehenna/Lake of Fire.

If we use (the word) hell .. it confuses the distinction ....Without proper explanation I agree.See the very first post I made on this topic and see if you agree with it?

See the very first post I made on this topic and see if you agree with it?Yes, I basically agree.I want to clarify that the scriptures did not directly link Gehenna with the Lake of Fire, although they do seem to be implicitly the same.Also, unlike the connection between Sheol and Hades, "Gehenna" in the OT is a literal place, "Valley of the son of Hinnom", where:(1) Human sacrifices were offered by worshipers of Molech (2 Ch 28:3, 33:6);(2) King Josiah defiled the place on account of these practices (2 Kings 23:10); and,(3) Associated in prophecy with God's judgment, presumably based on (1) and (2) (Jer 7:32)Gehenna in NT passages however seem to be generally in connection to the final judgment; a connection not wihtin Jewish thinking Extrabiblical writings though do use "Gehenna" to refer to a place of eternal punishment; Assumption of Moses 10:10; 2 Esdras 7:36.The imagery of fire to express divine judgment is well known in the OT, e.g. Dt. 32:22.Just some more info.