there are parents that are having thier children die because they did not want to give the child medicine when it was sick and instead said that the bible says to have faith. now they are going to prison. what is your view about the bible and how it says to pray for the sick...or anything about this topic
I think there has to be common sense practiced here. In some cases it is wise to take medication, but all the time we should be praying earnestly to be healed. To do the reverse when there is an obvious wrong problem and not treat it is quick silly unless God is strongly impressing it on you.I would say first:"If any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up: and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him." (James 5:14-15).then...hospital etc.. except for dire emergencies that require ambulance etc.. just my 2 cents.
I really like the advice apostle Paul gave to his spiritual son Timothy for some disease in his stomach. It is given in 1 Timothy 5:23 (The Message) "And don't worry too much about what the critics will say. Go ahead and drink a little wine, for instance; it's good for your digestion, good medicine for what ails you."Good example: There is a person who is drowning, he calls upon God for help. Suddenly there comes a helicopter over him to save his life. Since he look for some other form of supernatural way of escape, he refuse this offer. And finally he died at an age below from what God had planed for his life. So with, some of the believers refuse to accept God's won provision through medicine. This is one extreme.Other extreme is whenever they are sick, they put their trust in man and medicine alone for healing. God never comes into the scene. They won't seek the face of God. Illness and Death of Asa illustrate this, 2 Chronicles 16:11-12 "Note that the acts of Asa, first and last, are indeed written in the book of the kings of Judah and Israel. And in the thirty-ninth year of his reign, Asa became diseased in his feet, and his malady was severe; yet in his disease he did not seek the LORD, but the physicians."In Him,Shibu
The trouble with the total faith doctrine or as its been named, "faith only" movement. Is that eventually it turns into works. The people in those movements eventually force the doctrines inorder to fit in. It becomes as much spiritual pride and self will as so many other doctrines can. The first temptation Jesus' had to over come was the temptation to substitute for the Word Spoken from the mouth of God. Learning all the passages on healing and having them in your head and getting the head to make the will conform doesn't always work to well on getting the spiritual life nessary deep down to sustain some of those teachings.Some things are best learned from the Mouth of God and not man. what is your view about the bible and how it says to pray for the sick I believe in the healings of Christ as a result of prayer offered in faith. But sometimes because our doubts are so fixed we also need to fast with those prayers we offer. I'm not speaking to the sick but to those who are praying for the sick.I could go into graet detail on this subject but won't.
The following passage describes the second temptation, Jesus faced just after 40 days of fasting.Then the devil took Him up into the holy city, set Him on the pinnacle of the temple, and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down. For it is written: ‘He shall give His angels charge over you,’ and, ‘In their hands they shall bear you up, lest you dash your foot against a stone.’ Jesus said to him, “It is written again, ‘You shall not tempt the LORD your God.’”Here it is interested to notice that, how satan also used God word to tempt Jesus subtly. Just jump from pinnacle of the temple and claim supernatural protection from God through holy scripture. Thanks God, Lord Jesus overcame satan with God's word by saying "It is also written: Do not put the Lord your God to the test." I believe Jesus must have used staircase to come down from the pinnacle of the temple than an easy way (something spectacular in man's eyes) by tempting God. I am not trying take this portion and generalize for everything.I am not against divine healing like some sect believe that signs and miracles (gifts of the Holy Spirit) were ended after first apostles' period. I have heard many testimonies about divine healing taking place in the villages of India, when missionaries pray for local heathen people (idol worshipers) there. This is my sincere prayer that God will establish His word through signs and wonders and He will continue use His genuine missionaries in India with signs and wonders.At the same without bad conscience myself and my family take medicine. Therefore we encourage believers, who got admission for studying MBBS (medicine) or nursing to go ahead with that. There is a good message on "Jesus Was Tempted As We Are" by Zac Poonen. In that he speaks about these issues. Those who want to listen or watch, please click this Jesus Was Tempted As We AreFinally, I don't force my conviction. In Him,Shibu
My perspective sounds simplistic and it actually is quite simple.I've seen God heal people (myself included) simply as a sovereign act of his mercy. I have also seen him tell others to go to this doctor and God has met them.I have a dogmatic position but rather a flexible one, which is not my will but thy will be done. Sometimes when He has told us to wait, then it can be quite painful but the question I ask myself is whether I am obedient or not?
That's what should be taught... obedience out of relationship. What a wonderful combination. :-) :-)
I have a dogmatic position but rather a flexible one, which is not my will but thy will be done. Sometimes when He has told us to wait, then it can be quite painful but the question I ask myself is whether I am obedient or not?habakkuk,I think you've got a good balance there from a personal perspective, and I agree about the obedience in particular but I would spread out a little more detail for readers. There is a question... whether God has asked you to believe Him to heal you? If He has, then you must exercise faith in that word. That's obedience.If He has not put something in your heart to believe into, then the questions are more around whether the illness is a medical emergency from the start - such as an accident, broken bones, serious pain somewhere (head or gut), which may need intervention to save your life. Then what should a Christian do? Accept the ambulance, I think.What if you have an infectious condition, such as leprosy, which used to recover spontaneously (according to the Old Testament) but now can be treated very simply with a course of medication, while preventing its spread? What if the infectious condition may be fatal to babes, children and old folk... what does a responsible Christian do?The original question, about whether a child should be taken to a doctor for medicine, or allowed to die, begs the whole matter of true faith in a living word from God. I have often prayed for my children when they were small, and saw some very quick resolutions to vomiting conditions, (Sorry chaps.) which had the potential to become very serious to life and health if they persisted. And I have to confess that in those cases, I can't remember asking the Lord if He wanted to heal. I made the assumption on the amount of time He spent healing people, that of course He did not want my toddler to die. (And I should say too, there were times when I went straight to the doctor with them, without hesitation.)I took my role as a parent (God, to my child), very seriously. I didn't expect a one year old to know if she believed Jesus could or would heal her; but, she experienced it, because I prayed and He is gracious. Or, I needed a doctor's opinion before I could pray or accept treatment for my child... always listening to what God might be saying.Have parents who let their child die, had a word from God, into which they believed? I don't know how one judges, but, one only has to read the amazing list of everything that Jesus healed, to know He is able to heal, but, not according to a set of rules. He said He does and says what His Father showed and spoke to Him. This has to be the guide for our actions, too.I was interested in the testimony above, of missionaries praying for idol worshippers. This is the sort of healing I very much believe in. I also know that often prayer is the only recourse a missionary has, unless he is in a hospital with access to medications or an operating theatre. The love which drives men and women from the comfort of their educated culture, to minister in places where there may be no clean running water, or transport to take a sick person from their home to a clinic, also drives missionaries to greater faith.I think we have enough poor people in our cities and sub-cultures, to take the same approach, if we find ourselves driven to believe the Lord is calling us into such a ministry.
Good word sis! :-)
There is a question... whether God has asked you to believe Him to heal you? If He has, then you must exercise faith in that word. That's obedience. Amen! My pastor broke his foot (we think) and the Lord told him not to go to the doctor. It has been a time of miracles and God's provision because he was willing to step into what God told him to.
The God I know works through man also so that would include Doctors. ;-)
I have a dogmatic position but rather a flexible one, which is not my will but thy will be done. Sometimes when He has told us to wait, then it can be quite painful but the question I ask myself is whether I am obedient or not?habakkuk, you got a good balance based on your personal conviction before the Lord. Since dorcas's father was a missionary doctor and as a mother, she shared her balanced experience from her personal perspective. To me both of them compliment each other.What troubles me, is that, when you push your personal conviction between you and God as a doctrine and dump it on others. It lead people into bondage and legalism.Amen! My pastor broke his foot (we think) and the Lord told him not to go to the doctor. It has been a time of miracles and God's provision because he was willing to step into what God told him to.I strongly believe that, there are many things which the Lord will tell us in our walk with the Lord, like, in the case of hababkkuk's pastor, God told him to wait on Him for healing. That is absolutely fine. But in India some of the groups in Christendom (people call them as Pentecostal) teach this as a doctrine. They teach believers that, if you take medicine, you are sinning against the Lord and you are a second class believer. If you go to their meetings, the message will invariably revolve around this theme only. Sadly those who preach this sort (not all) are leading a defeated Christian life (Those don't know how to speak kindly to their spouse, love of money, eyes which are full of lust, not able to get along, fighting for position and ministry in the church, proud and arrogant etc.).Hebrews 11:29 "By faith they passed through the Red Sea as by dry land, whereas the Egyptians, attempting to do so, were drowned." Israel had a word from the Lord, therefore they could cross the Red Sea by faith, whereas the Egyptians, tried to imitate, were drowned. This is what exactly happening to many believers, who try to imitate others without a word from the Lord and faith. Finally they destroy themselves and bring dishonor to God's name. That is why Paul exhorted Roman believers by saying " to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith (Romans 12:3).Therefore I have decided, I will not push my personal conviction between me and my God (Things which are not mentioned in bible, as commandments or principles) to others, leave alone others, not even to my wife and kids.I don't consider a believer who take medicine as inferior or one who don't take as superior. But I do consider a believer as great, when he/she exercises his/her faith in God through Lord Jesus to overcome his/her lusts (giants) in the flesh, the world and satan. One who is humble, sacrificial, broken, merciful and becoming more like his master.God has given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust (2 Peter 1:4). For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith (1 John 5:4). 1 Peter 1:9 says, receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. In Him,Shibu
What troubles me, is that, when you push your personal conviction between you and God as a doctrine and dump it on others. It lead people into bondage and legalism. I apologize that if I've dumped a particular belief on you here. I was somewhat confused by this paragraph in light of the other things you had said.It's up to us to obey the Lord and press into Him to find out what He wants us to do and then to do it. I have seen God use doctors, so if I've mistakenly implied otherwise please forgive me.
Hi habakkuk3,There is no need for apologizing, we learn from each other. I may be weak in one area, there you may be strong and it can be vice-versa too. In true fellowship, we will compliment each other. From your comments what impressed in my spirit is a portion from Jeremiah 17:7-8 "Blessed is the man who trusts in the LORD, and whose hope is the LORD. For he shall be like a tree planted by the waters, which spreads out its roots by the river, and will not fear when heat comes; but its leaf will be green, and will not be anxious in the year of drought, nor will cease from yielding fruit."What I wrote was based on my experience in India among Pentecostal believers (I will not include all because some of them are really godly and sacrificial). Most of them think that, true characteristics of a man of God is "one who will not take medicine." Often such man of God release all their faith (this include fasting and prayer) in that direction only. And they encourage their followers to imitate them, often that leads to guilty conscience and bondage. They are trying to do something which the Lord never asked them. Same people can't believe that Lord Jesus can save them from the power of sin and world (Matthew 1:21 and Galatians 1:4). Their ministry always lead people into old covenant. Old covenant focus mainly on earthly blessings and earthly kingdom. That include health, wealth and fame. How many of them consider bitterness in their heart is worser than having leprosy or AIDS. If they do, how much they would have sought God with fasting and prayer. But for earthly blessings they don't mind seeking God with fasting and prayer.Lord Jesus came with better covenant and better promises. That include spiritual kingdom and spiritual blessings. God wants His people under new covenant to exercise their faith for things which got eternal values. This doesn't mean we shouldn't seek God for healing, far from it. Whenever I am sick or my loved ones, I always seek God for His touch. The point I want to make is, this is minor compared to major things, which God has promised to His people under grace through Lord Jesus Christ. Some of the major things are conforming into the image of Christ, revelation from God's word, anointing of the Holy Spirit, entering into God's rest, overcoming conscious sin, getting detached from world's power, and able to share the burden and agony of the Lord etc.Whenever we pray for sick people, we pray with faith, believing, prayer of a righteous man avails much. At the same time, we don't ask them to stop medication or not to consult doctors. Rather we teach them to search their heart to see any conscious and unconfessed sin in their lives especially unforgiving and bitter spirit. If they have a clear conscience towards God and man, then, we encourage them to believe steadfastly without wavering in a loving father who will never do any harm to His beloved children (Jeremiah 29:11, Romans 8:28, Isaiah 43:1-3).--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Please read the testimony David Wilkerson (appended), I consider this as genuine unwavering faith in God though he needed to visit the hospital for many times.My wife, Gwen, is now recovering from a knee replacement her twenty-first operation (five for cancer). She told me this was the most painful operation of all. She is recovering well and will soon be able to travel with me to ministers' conferences around the world.The Lord has seen us through deep waters of affliction over the past years. Both of our daughters, Debbie and Bonnie, are also cancer survivors. God has graciously delivered Gwen from a cloud of guilt she carried for a long time, thinking she had "passed on cancer" to them. Doctors called it a cancer cluster. Today, Gwen, Debbie and Bonnie are all doing well. God be praised.Two years ago, our twelve-year-old granddaughter, Tiffany, died of brain cancer. This was especially difficult for Gwen, who had to fight off the same old accusations from Satan that Tiffany's cancer was also hereditary. The Holy Spirit has been so faithful to comfort and heal the hurt. We know God always does what is best for all concerned.As I look back over fifty years of ministry, I recall innumerable tests, trials and times of crushing pain. But through it all, the Lord has proven faithful, loving, and totally true to all his promises.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Him,Shibu
Lord Jesus came with better covenant and better promises. That include spiritual kingdom and spiritual blessings. God wants His people under new covenant to exercise their faith for things which got eternal values. This doesn't mean we shouldn't seek God for healing, far from it. Whenever I am sick or my loved ones, I always seek God for His touch. The point I want to make is, this is minor compared to major things, which God has promised to His people under grace through Lord Jesus Christ. Some of the major things are conforming into the image of Christ, revelation from God's word, anointing of the Holy Spirit, entering into God's rest, overcoming conscious sin, getting detached from world's power, and able to share the burden and agony of the Lord etc.Brother shibu,Thank you for all you have shared in these last two posts. I am fed. Amen.
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